Qualcomm thinks it can make a laptop chip better than Apple's M1

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 44
    rob53 said:
    I doubt Qualcomm will be able to match Apple’s performance while having to deal with Microsoft. It doesn’t really matter to Mac users because it will never run macOS. 
    It's an odd statement. I don't think anyone wants them to, and I don't think anyone asked them to, and I don't think they have any particular love of what they do but have a plan to get Windows on ARM. Certainly ARM has advantages but there are other paths as well. I think Qualcomm just likes to pretend it's more than a patent troll and looks for opportunities to get their name out there. So make some chips. And...then... PROFIT!
    You must be living deep inside a cave for a long long time to think that way. Why don't you get out and read more about Qualcomm before making such silly comments?
    darkvaderKITAavon b7williamlondon
  • Reply 22 of 44
    Don’t be a puss, try beat A14 first
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 44
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 2,545member
    Qualcomm ARM chip for PC expected to run Windows but Microsoft is already working on to create it's own ARM PC chip like Apple. So, Qualcomm will also be competing with Microsoft for Windows ARM platform.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 44
    KITAKITA Posts: 369member
    apple_evo said:
    reading the comments here is pretty sobering. 

    1. QUALCOMM already makes laptop chips (for Microsoft) - Microsoft SQ1 and SQ2 

    2. Windows 10 ARM64 exists and runs quite well. Old versions of Windows on ARM (Windows RT) were terrible failures. 

    All that being said, Apple's M1 is running circles around the SQ1/SQ2 chips and runs Windows 10 ARM faster in emulation mode than the SQ1/SQ2 natively, which is very impressive. 

    I don't think people really know what the SQ1/SQ2 are (I'd also add that Qualcomm makes the Snapdragon 7c, 8c and 8cx SoCs from other OEMs to use.).

    For context, they use 4x Kyro 495 Gold and 4x Kyro 495 Silver cores. These are essentially the Cortex A76 and Cortex A55 cores from 2018 and 2017 respectively. All of this is on a 7 nm (TSMC N7) process.

    The Apple M1 uses 4x Firestorm and 4x Icestorm cores from 2020 on a 5 nm (TSMC N5) process.

    It's no surprise the M1 is far more powerful in CPU performance than the SQ1/SQ2, they're using really old tech.



    For comparison, a modern stock Arm chip for laptops will use 8x Cortex X2 (Armv9) cores on 5 nm.



    Single core Cortex-X2 would still lose out to Apple, but multi core would likely be higher in this configuration.

    We might expect to see this from companies like MediaTek (paired with an NVIDIA GPU), Samsung (paired with an AMD GPU) and possibly Qualcomm (paired with an Adreno GPU) later this year / early next year.

    There's likely a good reason to Qualcomm's $1.4 billion purchase of NUVIA given their first product will only come to market in 2022. This is also the same year new cores from Arm's Sophia design team comes to market - so it would be safe to assume Qualcomm is under the impression their NUVIA cores will beat those too.
    muthuk_vanalingamroundaboutnowhcrefugee
  • Reply 25 of 44
    applguyapplguy Posts: 169member
    Action speaks louder than words. Don’t say it. Do it Qualcomm. Let’s see what talent you have left.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 44
    jdb8167jdb8167 Posts: 621member
    KITA said:

    In terms of GPU, DSP (AI) and modem, Qualcomm already has Apple beat, so I'm not sure why this is such a mystery to everyone, CPU is their main bottleneck.
    Any evidence that Qualcomm has Apple beat in GPU, DSP and Neural Engine? I haven't seen any. Apple right now has the fastest integrated GPU and the M1 Neural Engine is impressive. We know less about Apple's DSP but I doubt that Qualcomm is ahead there either.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 44
    KITAKITA Posts: 369member
    jdb8167 said:
    KITA said:

    In terms of GPU, DSP (AI) and modem, Qualcomm already has Apple beat, so I'm not sure why this is such a mystery to everyone, CPU is their main bottleneck.
    Any evidence that Qualcomm has Apple beat in GPU, DSP and Neural Engine? I haven't seen any. Apple right now has the fastest integrated GPU and the M1 Neural Engine is impressive. We know less about Apple's DSP but I doubt that Qualcomm is ahead there either.
    The peak configuration of an Adreno 6xx in laptops, a GPU from 2018 on a 7 nm process, is >2.1 TFLOPS (estimated at 2.2~2.4 TFLOPS in the SQ2). In 2018, the 7 core GPU in the A12X on 7nm was ~1.4 TFLOPS. Where as Apple's 8 core M1 GPU from 2020 on 5 nm offers about 2.6 TFLOPS. Needless to say, a modern Adreno 7xx GPU for laptop SoCs on a 5 nm process should exceed Apple's GPU.

    The M1 with the Neural Engine offers 11 TOPS while the Snapdragon 888 with the Hexagon 780 DSP offers 26 TOPS (32 TOPS in the Plus version) for AI applications.
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 28 of 44
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,478member
    M1 was custom designed and made by Apple for its own hardware. Is Qualcomm planning a line of phones, tablets, and laptops? Kinda hard to compete when you’re making one size fits all chips. 
    williamlondonMenzieswatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 44
    larryjwlarryjw Posts: 835member
    So, what was the result of Apple's lawsuit against the engineers at Nuvia? 

    Seems QCOM's purchase of Nuvia and use of those engineers is quite dependent on the outcome of that lawsuit.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 44
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 2,521member
    I don't presume to know what's best for Apple here, but I hope Apple has considered selling its M1 chip to other PC manufacturers.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 44
    Oh yeah? Well I think I could play center field for the Yankees.

    Right.
    MisterKitwilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 44
    KTRKTR Posts: 167member
    mushmash said:
    I'm sure they can, but the M1 has already been on the market for almost a year, potentially matching it sometime in 2022 puts them at least two years behind Apple's efforts.

    And that's IF they manage to match it, and IF they don't hit any obstacles.

    They've been catching up to Apple's mobile chips for years, I don't think that's gonna radically change with pc chips.
    Apple will still have the edge.  Apple can Tweak the os for the hardware and the hardware for the software , cause everything is made by one company
    williamlondonStrangeDaystmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 44
    dewmedewme Posts: 3,827member
    Talk is cheap. Bring it on, QualComm …
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 44
    dk49dk49 Posts: 135member
    Even if they are able to match M1s performance, Macs will continue to sell well just like they did with Intel Macs. The differenting factor for Macs has been it's OS, not the CPU/GPU. Nobody buys Macs for the best performance machines. 
    libertyandfreewatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 44
    crowleycrowley Posts: 8,755member
    I don't presume to know what's best for Apple here, but I hope Apple has considered selling its M1 chip to other PC manufacturers.
    What?  Of course they haven't.  Do you know anything about Apple?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 44
    crowleycrowley Posts: 8,755member
    I hope Qualcomm succeed.  Wouldn't it to be too easy for Apple.
  • Reply 37 of 44
    danoxdanox Posts: 604member
    mushmash said:
    I'm sure they can, but the M1 has already been on the market for almost a year, potentially matching it sometime in 2022 puts them at least two years behind Apple's efforts.

    And that's IF they manage to match it, and IF they don't hit any obstacles.

    They've been catching up to Apple's mobile chips for years, I don't think that's gonna radically change with pc chips.
    It took Apple 10-12 years to replace the Intel chips, Qualcomm is at least 6 years away from being at M1 level and 20 years away OS wise which is to say they aren’t even close.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 44
    danoxdanox Posts: 604member
    red oak said:
    Okay.  So what OS are you going to run on these new devices?    Android?   Chrome OS?   An updated version of Microsoft ARM that failed years ago?  Without a firm OS and app software plan, Qualcomm's whole plan is half baked.    

    Apple will have M2 already in the market in 2022,  M3 about to launch, and have years of refining its OS and app support.  

    Last,  Apple is about to gut Qualcomm's iPhone business when it launches its own cellular silicon in the next 2-4 years.  

    Right now -  this IS as good as gets for Qualcomm. 

    I wish them no luck, they like Intel, are have been a really nasty piece of work.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 44
    danoxdanox Posts: 604member
    KITA said:
    If NUVIA's performance claims are true, the Phoenix will be quite competitive right out of the box:



    In terms of GPU, DSP (AI) and modem, Qualcomm already has Apple beat, so I'm not sure why this is such a mystery to everyone, CPU is their main bottleneck.

    As far as OS goes, they're already working closely with Microsoft for Windows 11 on ARM.
    Pipe dream Qualcomm is too greedy, and Microsoft to well fed to put up a fight, this show is all for Wall Street like the Google Pixel phone. 
    williamlondonlibertyandfreewatto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 44
    danoxdanox Posts: 604member
    auxio said:
    red oak said:
    KITA said:
    If NUVIA's performance claims are true, the Phoenix will be quite competitive right out of the box:



    In terms of GPU, DSP (AI) and modem, Qualcomm already has Apple beat, so I'm not sure why this is such a mystery to everyone, CPU is their main bottleneck.

    As far as OS goes, they're already working closely with Microsoft for Windows 11 on ARM.
    Qualcomm has been working with Microsoft for years already.   How is Windows ARM running current Qualcomm chips doing in the marketplace?    

    Funny, because I have not seen any traction
    The fact that Windows 11 can run Android/ARM apps makes things a bit more interesting.  While Apple certainly has the lead, I'm sure they're paying attention to what's happening with Qualcomm, Microsoft, and Android.  Interesting times ahead for sure.

    Two Monkey’s kissing a Football, remember Apple’s deal with IBM for Enterprise development, Microsoft and Google will hold each other at arms length.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
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