FAA forced 5G rollout delays despite no proof of harm, claim trade bodies

AppleInsider · November 19, 2021 3:15PM

The Federal Aviation Administration has provided little evidence to support its request that carriers delay their 5G rollouts due to safety concerns, several trade organizations have claimed.

Credit: Josue Isai Ramos Figueroa/Unsplash

Earlier in November, AT&T and Verizon agreed to pause their rollout of new C-Band 5G spectrum because of concerns that the band could interfere with safety equipment on aircraft. However, some trade associations and telecom officials have cast doubt on those fears, Ars Technica reported.

Harold Feld, a telecom attorney and senior VP at Public Knownledge, slammed the FAA in a blog post, saying the actions went against the Federal Communications Commission's (FCC) findings.

"Unhappy federal agencies that don't like the outcome of an FCC proceeding respond by undermining the FCC in the press and trying to wage proxy wars through allies in Congress," Feld wrote. "But the FAA's actions here take this behavior to new heights of irresponsibility and danger."

Feld is referring to the fact that the FCC, the expert agency on spectrum interference, previously approved use of the new spectrum, which occupies the spectrum from 3.7 to 3.98 GHz. The FCC analyzed the aviation industry's claims as part of the approvals process, and found no evidence to support it.

Other countries already use the C-Band spectrum with no issues, as noted by Meredith Attwell Baker , CTIA President and CEO of CTIA, the wireless communications trade body.

"5G signals operate in spectrum adjacent to aviation equipment. US airlines fly in and out of these countries every day," she wrote. "If interference were possible, we would have seen it long before now. Nevertheless we've added a layer of protection in the United States, called a guard band, that is hundreds of times greater than the separation that exists between wireless and other critical spectrum users."

Earlier in November, the CTIA told the FCC that nearly 40 other countries are using the C-Band spectrum. The trade association said that there are "hundreds of thousands of 5G base stations in the C-Band at similar frequencies and similar power levels-- and in some instances, at closer proximity to aviation operations-- than 5G will be in the US."

"None of these countries has reported any harmful interference with aviation equipment from these commercial deployments," the group wrote.

One wireless technology analyst, Peter Rysavy, wrote that the aviation industry tests that caused concern were driven by altimeters that were "built to decades-old specifications" and lacked adequate filtered. He said that well-designed equipment with newer specs should not be affected.

In a Nov. 2 bulletin that warned of "potential adverse effects" on aircraft systems, even the FAA acknowledged that there haven't been any "proven reports of harmful interference."

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darkvader · November 19, 2021 4:06PM

The FAA does their job, wants to be sure planes don't fall out of the sky.

The telcos whine about it.

The standard in aviation isn't "proof of harm" - it's "as close as possible to proof that there is no harm". And if there's a chance, even a small chance, that these frequencies used for cell phone data is going to interfere with older altimeters (I'm assuming radar altimeters, I doubt pressure altimeters could be affected) then the FAA did exactly what they're supposed to do - put the brakes on and demand testing.

The telcos need to calm down. 5G isn't a big deal for the vast majority of people, not having planes fall out of the sky is.

Detnator · November 19, 2021 4:14PM

darkvader said:

The FAA does their job, wants to be sure planes don't fall out of the sky.

The telcos whine about it.

The standard in aviation isn't "proof of harm" - it's "as close as possible to proof that there is no harm". And if there's a chance, even a small chance, that these frequencies used for cell phone data is going to interfere with older altimeters (I'm assuming radar altimeters, I doubt pressure altimeters could be affected) then the FAA did exactly what they're supposed to do - put the brakes on and demand testing.

The telcos need to calm down. 5G isn't a big deal for the vast majority of people, not having planes fall out of the sky is.

I guess you missed the part about all the other countries that have already rolled it out and have had no effect on flights.

kempathonnodge · November 19, 2021 7:05PM

darkvader said:

The FAA does their job, wants to be sure planes don't fall out of the sky.

The telcos whine about it.

The standard in aviation isn't "proof of harm" - it's "as close as possible to proof that there is no harm". And if there's a chance, even a small chance, that these frequencies used for cell phone data is going to interfere with older altimeters (I'm assuming radar altimeters, I doubt pressure altimeters could be affected) then the FAA did exactly what they're supposed to do - put the brakes on and demand testing.

The telcos need to calm down. 5G isn't a big deal for the vast majority of people, not having planes fall out of the sky is.

You can’t prove a negative, and what exactly how that wording can be interpreted is infinite.

Planes falling out of the sky is not a rational consideration here - slight interferrance would have backup systems in place and, as reported, has not been demonstrated.

Rolling out 5G is important to users, as data usage is increasing, and each new iteration of networks increases capacity and reduces the chance of having slow speeds. Blocking the technology when there is almost no risk is ridiculous.

If the FAA was in the game of no risk, they wouldn’t fly planes or allow Boeing planes in the sky… there is evidence of harm there!

viclauyyc · November 19, 2021 8:06PM

darkvader said:

The FAA does their job, wants to be sure planes don't fall out of the sky.

The telcos whine about it.

The standard in aviation isn't "proof of harm" - it's "as close as possible to proof that there is no harm". And if there's a chance, even a small chance, that these frequencies used for cell phone data is going to interfere with older altimeters (I'm assuming radar altimeters, I doubt pressure altimeters could be affected) then the FAA did exactly what they're supposed to do - put the brakes on and demand testing.

The telcos need to calm down. 5G isn't a big deal for the vast majority of people, not having planes fall out of the sky is.

I am reading a book called “the crash Detectives” by Christine Negroni. One of the recurring theme is FAA’s main interest is not the public but the aircraft manufacturer, mostly Boeing.

Sure, the FAA is the best of the world but it has it’s biased. The most reason case is 737 Max, FAA pretty much believe everything Boeing told them before the crash. And see what happened.

macseeker · November 20, 2021 12:23AM

When the 3G band closes up next year, I wonder why they can't repurpose it for 5G. Also I think it was a stupid idea for the FCC to reallocate some of the C-Band spectrum to 5G. In the long run it's going to be more expensive for distribution of nationwide cable channels.

darkvader · November 22, 2021 3:30PM

kempathonnodge said:

darkvader said:

The FAA does their job, wants to be sure planes don't fall out of the sky.

The telcos whine about it.

The standard in aviation isn't "proof of harm" - it's "as close as possible to proof that there is no harm". And if there's a chance, even a small chance, that these frequencies used for cell phone data is going to interfere with older altimeters (I'm assuming radar altimeters, I doubt pressure altimeters could be affected) then the FAA did exactly what they're supposed to do - put the brakes on and demand testing.

The telcos need to calm down. 5G isn't a big deal for the vast majority of people, not having planes fall out of the sky is.

You can’t prove a negative, and what exactly how that wording can be interpreted is infinite.

Planes falling out of the sky is not a rational consideration here - slight interferrance would have backup systems in place and, as reported, has not been demonstrated.

Rolling out 5G is important to users, as data usage is increasing, and each new iteration of networks increases capacity and reduces the chance of having slow speeds. Blocking the technology when there is almost no risk is ridiculous.

If the FAA was in the game of no risk, they wouldn’t fly planes or allow Boeing planes in the sky… there is evidence of harm there!

As I said, "as close as possible to proof that there is no harm". I'm fully aware that you can't prove a negative, but you can get as close as possible.

What we don't know is which systems are vulnerable to interference from this frequency being used for 5G, how much greater that interference will be if there is a wide rollout of 5G on that frequency, and what the potential is for that interference to cause a "controlled flight into terrain". And those are all things that should be known before it's turned on in wide deployment. Maybe it's nothing, maybe it's safe to go ahead. Taking a bit longer makes sense.

Maybe a few users care about 5G. I strongly suspect that the vast majority do not really care all that much. It's certainly not a life or death issue, which a failing altimeter can be. Pressure altimeters are great, but weather change + radar altimeter interference + mountain can in fact cause a really bad day.

And yes, the FAA definitely has some regulatory capture problems. This isn't one of them. The regulatory capture problem here is the FCC, which approved these frequencies for 5G before they should have. The FAA shouldn't be a Boeing cheerleader, the FCC shouldn't be a telco cheerleader.

FAA forced 5G rollout delays despite no proof of harm, claim trade bodies

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