On one hand, I don't blame Apple for threading the needle with the CCP in order to get access to a market with 5 times the population of U.S. But on the other, that's a lot of money and resources that are building Communist China instead of the United States. China is a major competitor, biggest trade partner, and #1 threat to the U.S. all at the same time. Their government's goal is to be the world superpower by 2050. This was a long-term plan started in the 1970's. We dismissed them for decades, thought we "free" trade could liberalize the CCP, and their military was subpar compared to ours. All that has changed in the last 20 years. While we still have a superior military, they have the capability to win a battle (for example, Taiwan) before we can respond with full force. They also have sophisticated enough equipment (planes, missiles, anti-satellite etc.) to give us real problems.
Is there any actual evidence that China is a threat to the U.S. or that they intend to become the world's leading super (military) power -- or is it just more propaganda left over from the Trump era?
We know how that operates: repeat the lies enough times and they becomes the new alternative facts.
It's hard to believe you're for real sometimes.
Actual evidence? China is building hypersonic missiles, anti-satellite and anti-carrier weapons and modernizing it's 2,000,000-strong PLA at a rapid pace. Real-world spending on actual weapons and capabilities approaches our own. Any China expert will tell you China likely spends double what they claim, and that most of it goes to actual capability (whereas much of our budget goes to pay and maintenance). They have an advanced nuclear capability. That doesn't mean they are planning to attack the United States. But it does mean they want to dominate Asia and deny us access. It does mean that if we move to defend Taiwan, it could result in a major, bloody conflict. Economically, they have been waging war for 50 years. They seek to be the global economic and military superpower. They have stated it openly for decades.
This has nothing to do with "propaganda" or Trump. This was going on long before Trump even ran. China has hollowed us out economically and has infiltrated our institutions more than the Soviets ever could have dreamed. Universities. Congress. Finance. Technology. But yeah, let's keep whistling past our own graveyard, because Orange Man Band™.
Yes, if we try to take what is theirs, they will defend it.
And yes, they don't like U.S. warships and planes threatening them near their homeland and if we push them too far they will sink our silly little boats. They've been clear: they will not allow western countries to colonize or intimidate them again. Ain't gonna happen.
And yes, they beat us in the war of free market capitalism.
... Losing that war to them doesn't make them our enemy anymore than Microsoft is the enemy of Apple.
Does Patrick Mahomes blame Tom Brady for his loss? Does he think Tom Brady is his "enemy"? No, he (hopefully) realizes that he and his team need to get better at what they do.
As I've said, Instead of blaming China for our loss, we need to get better at free market capitalism.
But, we had/have a populist demagogue riling up the frightened disenfranchised chest thumpers looking for excuses for why they lost and offering them quick (but worthless) fixes.
----------------
Added: Interesting that one of our few successful new home grown corporations (Moderna) is opening a new manufacturing plant -- but not here in the U.S. Rather, in Asia (Australia to be exact). Reportedly:
"a second such commitment in Asia Pacific by a western mRNA vaccine
developer, underscores efforts by governments around the world to build
up local production and prepare for future pandemic threats after
limited early access to shots led to slow COVID-19 vaccine rollouts."
Sounds like not even our closest allies trust U.S. industry to meet their needs.
Take what is theirs? Do you mean Taiwan? Because Taiwan has never been "theirs," nor are we trying to take it. We're not the ones building islands in the South China Sea and militarizing them. We're not trying to colonize or intimidate them. On the contrary, we've welcomed and encouraged China to become part of the First World. WTO membership, most favored nation status, you name it.
Two things can be true at the same time. We have allowed China to hollow us out economically, absolutely. But China is not engaging in "free market capitalism." They are engaged in CommunoCapitalism, or fascism by another name. The CCP is tyrannical, like all Communists are. What are we prepared to let them do? Are we going to sit back and let them invade Taiwan? Take over the world economically through their Belt and Road initiative? Infiltrate every sector of our society? How long do you think it will be until the CCP decides it's time to take us on directly? And yes, without a posture change, they will. Because that's what tyrants do. Unless we stand up to China, that day will come. China has the capability today to cause us serious harm. If they wanted, they could launch a simultaneous anti-satellite and naval attack that would destroy most of our capability in the Pacific. They could sink 3 aircraft carriers, 20 submarines, and multiple destroyers as well as disrupt the entire GPS system in one day. They could take Taiwan at the same time. The only reason they won't is they currently believe we will bring to bear all our remaining assets, including nuclear weapons. But the more they see our decline, the more international weakness we show, the more their calculations will change. Look at their behavior since the Afghanistan debacle. They (and Russia) are behaving very aggressively. Putin is going to invade Ukraine, and we will likely do nothing. China is going to see that and conclude in short order that it's time to go for Taiwan, and therein lies the road to war. The military and security complex, along with major parts of both political parties will declare China's taking of Taiwan a bridge too far. If the Biden folks are still in office, they will want to avoid being seen as weak. Bingo...the one thing that crowd can do that we can't undo....World War III.
Sorry, but Taiwan has always been part of China. And, before they claimed to be an independent country (at the urging of our head terrorist Donald Trump) they claimed to BE China -- to represent ALL of China. This independent country bullshit is just another of Trump's lies. We and the rest of the world have never recognized two separate China's ever.
And we didn't "allow" China to do anything -- that's just more of Trump's bullshit.
Our jobs and industries migrated to Asia (mostly Japan) simply because they beat us at our own game: Free Market Capitalism: They built things better, faster and cheaper. And they continue doing so -- just that the industrial center has moved from Japan to China and a few others.
On one hand, I don't blame Apple for threading the needle with the CCP in order to get access to a market with 5 times the population of U.S. But on the other, that's a lot of money and resources that are building Communist China instead of the United States. China is a major competitor, biggest trade partner, and #1 threat to the U.S. all at the same time. Their government's goal is to be the world superpower by 2050. This was a long-term plan started in the 1970's. We dismissed them for decades, thought we "free" trade could liberalize the CCP, and their military was subpar compared to ours. All that has changed in the last 20 years. While we still have a superior military, they have the capability to win a battle (for example, Taiwan) before we can respond with full force. They also have sophisticated enough equipment (planes, missiles, anti-satellite etc.) to give us real problems.
Is there any actual evidence that China is a threat to the U.S. or that they intend to become the world's leading super (military) power -- or is it just more propaganda left over from the Trump era?
We know how that operates: repeat the lies enough times and they becomes the new alternative facts.
It's hard to believe you're for real sometimes.
Actual evidence? China is building hypersonic missiles, anti-satellite and anti-carrier weapons and modernizing it's 2,000,000-strong PLA at a rapid pace. Real-world spending on actual weapons and capabilities approaches our own. Any China expert will tell you China likely spends double what they claim, and that most of it goes to actual capability (whereas much of our budget goes to pay and maintenance). They have an advanced nuclear capability. That doesn't mean they are planning to attack the United States. But it does mean they want to dominate Asia and deny us access. It does mean that if we move to defend Taiwan, it could result in a major, bloody conflict. Economically, they have been waging war for 50 years. They seek to be the global economic and military superpower. They have stated it openly for decades.
This has nothing to do with "propaganda" or Trump. This was going on long before Trump even ran. China has hollowed us out economically and has infiltrated our institutions more than the Soviets ever could have dreamed. Universities. Congress. Finance. Technology. But yeah, let's keep whistling past our own graveyard, because Orange Man Band™.
Yes, if we try to take what is theirs, they will defend it.
And yes, they don't like U.S. warships and planes threatening them near their homeland and if we push them too far they will sink our silly little boats. They've been clear: they will not allow western countries to colonize or intimidate them again. Ain't gonna happen.
And yes, they beat us in the war of free market capitalism.
... Losing that war to them doesn't make them our enemy anymore than Microsoft is the enemy of Apple.
Does Patrick Mahomes blame Tom Brady for his loss? Does he think Tom Brady is his "enemy"? No, he (hopefully) realizes that he and his team need to get better at what they do.
As I've said, Instead of blaming China for our loss, we need to get better at free market capitalism.
But, we had/have a populist demagogue riling up the frightened disenfranchised chest thumpers looking for excuses for why they lost and offering them quick (but worthless) fixes.
----------------
Added: Interesting that one of our few successful new home grown corporations (Moderna) is opening a new manufacturing plant -- but not here in the U.S. Rather, in Asia (Australia to be exact). Reportedly:
"a second such commitment in Asia Pacific by a western mRNA vaccine
developer, underscores efforts by governments around the world to build
up local production and prepare for future pandemic threats after
limited early access to shots led to slow COVID-19 vaccine rollouts."
Sounds like not even our closest allies trust U.S. industry to meet their needs.
Take what is theirs? Do you mean Taiwan? Because Taiwan has never been "theirs," nor are we trying to take it. We're not the ones building islands in the South China Sea and militarizing them. We're not trying to colonize or intimidate them. On the contrary, we've welcomed and encouraged China to become part of the First World. WTO membership, most favored nation status, you name it.
Two things can be true at the same time. We have allowed China to hollow us out economically, absolutely. But China is not engaging in "free market capitalism." They are engaged in CommunoCapitalism, or fascism by another name. The CCP is tyrannical, like all Communists are. What are we prepared to let them do? Are we going to sit back and let them invade Taiwan? Take over the world economically through their Belt and Road initiative? Infiltrate every sector of our society? How long do you think it will be until the CCP decides it's time to take us on directly? And yes, without a posture change, they will. Because that's what tyrants do. Unless we stand up to China, that day will come. China has the capability today to cause us serious harm. If they wanted, they could launch a simultaneous anti-satellite and naval attack that would destroy most of our capability in the Pacific. They could sink 3 aircraft carriers, 20 submarines, and multiple destroyers as well as disrupt the entire GPS system in one day. They could take Taiwan at the same time. The only reason they won't is they currently believe we will bring to bear all our remaining assets, including nuclear weapons. But the more they see our decline, the more international weakness we show, the more their calculations will change. Look at their behavior since the Afghanistan debacle. They (and Russia) are behaving very aggressively. Putin is going to invade Ukraine, and we will likely do nothing. China is going to see that and conclude in short order that it's time to go for Taiwan, and therein lies the road to war. The military and security complex, along with major parts of both political parties will declare China's taking of Taiwan a bridge too far. If the Biden folks are still in office, they will want to avoid being seen as weak. Bingo...the one thing that crowd can do that we can't undo....World War III.
Sorry, but Taiwan has always been part of China. And, before they claimed to be an independent country (at the urging of our head terrorist Donald Trump) they claimed to BE China -- to represent ALL of China. This independent country bullshit is just another of Trump's lies. We and the rest of the world have never recognized two separate China's ever.
And we didn't "allow" China to do anything -- that's just more of Trump's bullshit.
Our jobs and industries migrated to Asia (mostly Japan) simply because they beat us at our own game: Free Market Capitalism: They built things better, faster and cheaper. And they continue doing so -- just that the industrial center has moved from Japan to China and a few others.
2. You're free to attack the former President all you want, but that's not really relevant to this discussion. We are discussing China's economic and military aggression, not political rhetoric. Of course, I doubt you can separate the two. Number one, Orange Man Bad™ and number two: People who think like you seem to believe that said Orange Man has taken over the brains of 75 million people.
3. We absolutely allowed China to do what it has done. We even encouraged it through our trade policies over the past 20 years. It's not controversial to state that we openly favored China because 1) We like cheap stuff and 2) We thought "free" trade would liberalize them. We have not prevented the CCP from infiltrating every institution we have. Free Market Capitalism....lol. Is that the system you think China has? Are you honestly naive enough to not realize the CCP is part of virtually every industry in China?
If you want to keep screaming "bullshit!" and calling the former President a liar, that's up to you. I'm more interested in the clear and present danger of the Chinese Communist Party.
On one hand, I don't blame Apple for threading the needle with the CCP in order to get access to a market with 5 times the population of U.S. But on the other, that's a lot of money and resources that are building Communist China instead of the United States. China is a major competitor, biggest trade partner, and #1 threat to the U.S. all at the same time. Their government's goal is to be the world superpower by 2050. This was a long-term plan started in the 1970's. We dismissed them for decades, thought we "free" trade could liberalize the CCP, and their military was subpar compared to ours. All that has changed in the last 20 years. While we still have a superior military, they have the capability to win a battle (for example, Taiwan) before we can respond with full force. They also have sophisticated enough equipment (planes, missiles, anti-satellite etc.) to give us real problems.
Is there any actual evidence that China is a threat to the U.S. or that they intend to become the world's leading super (military) power -- or is it just more propaganda left over from the Trump era?
We know how that operates: repeat the lies enough times and they becomes the new alternative facts.
It's hard to believe you're for real sometimes.
Actual evidence? China is building hypersonic missiles, anti-satellite and anti-carrier weapons and modernizing it's 2,000,000-strong PLA at a rapid pace. Real-world spending on actual weapons and capabilities approaches our own. Any China expert will tell you China likely spends double what they claim, and that most of it goes to actual capability (whereas much of our budget goes to pay and maintenance). They have an advanced nuclear capability. That doesn't mean they are planning to attack the United States. But it does mean they want to dominate Asia and deny us access. It does mean that if we move to defend Taiwan, it could result in a major, bloody conflict. Economically, they have been waging war for 50 years. They seek to be the global economic and military superpower. They have stated it openly for decades.
This has nothing to do with "propaganda" or Trump. This was going on long before Trump even ran. China has hollowed us out economically and has infiltrated our institutions more than the Soviets ever could have dreamed. Universities. Congress. Finance. Technology. But yeah, let's keep whistling past our own graveyard, because Orange Man Band™.
Yes, if we try to take what is theirs, they will defend it.
And yes, they don't like U.S. warships and planes threatening them near their homeland and if we push them too far they will sink our silly little boats. They've been clear: they will not allow western countries to colonize or intimidate them again. Ain't gonna happen.
And yes, they beat us in the war of free market capitalism.
... Losing that war to them doesn't make them our enemy anymore than Microsoft is the enemy of Apple.
Does Patrick Mahomes blame Tom Brady for his loss? Does he think Tom Brady is his "enemy"? No, he (hopefully) realizes that he and his team need to get better at what they do.
As I've said, Instead of blaming China for our loss, we need to get better at free market capitalism.
But, we had/have a populist demagogue riling up the frightened disenfranchised chest thumpers looking for excuses for why they lost and offering them quick (but worthless) fixes.
----------------
Added: Interesting that one of our few successful new home grown corporations (Moderna) is opening a new manufacturing plant -- but not here in the U.S. Rather, in Asia (Australia to be exact). Reportedly:
"a second such commitment in Asia Pacific by a western mRNA vaccine
developer, underscores efforts by governments around the world to build
up local production and prepare for future pandemic threats after
limited early access to shots led to slow COVID-19 vaccine rollouts."
Sounds like not even our closest allies trust U.S. industry to meet their needs.
Take what is theirs? Do you mean Taiwan? Because Taiwan has never been "theirs," nor are we trying to take it. We're not the ones building islands in the South China Sea and militarizing them. We're not trying to colonize or intimidate them. On the contrary, we've welcomed and encouraged China to become part of the First World. WTO membership, most favored nation status, you name it.
Two things can be true at the same time. We have allowed China to hollow us out economically, absolutely. But China is not engaging in "free market capitalism." They are engaged in CommunoCapitalism, or fascism by another name. The CCP is tyrannical, like all Communists are. What are we prepared to let them do? Are we going to sit back and let them invade Taiwan? Take over the world economically through their Belt and Road initiative? Infiltrate every sector of our society? How long do you think it will be until the CCP decides it's time to take us on directly? And yes, without a posture change, they will. Because that's what tyrants do. Unless we stand up to China, that day will come. China has the capability today to cause us serious harm. If they wanted, they could launch a simultaneous anti-satellite and naval attack that would destroy most of our capability in the Pacific. They could sink 3 aircraft carriers, 20 submarines, and multiple destroyers as well as disrupt the entire GPS system in one day. They could take Taiwan at the same time. The only reason they won't is they currently believe we will bring to bear all our remaining assets, including nuclear weapons. But the more they see our decline, the more international weakness we show, the more their calculations will change. Look at their behavior since the Afghanistan debacle. They (and Russia) are behaving very aggressively. Putin is going to invade Ukraine, and we will likely do nothing. China is going to see that and conclude in short order that it's time to go for Taiwan, and therein lies the road to war. The military and security complex, along with major parts of both political parties will declare China's taking of Taiwan a bridge too far. If the Biden folks are still in office, they will want to avoid being seen as weak. Bingo...the one thing that crowd can do that we can't undo....World War III.
Sorry, but Taiwan has always been part of China. And, before they claimed to be an independent country (at the urging of our head terrorist Donald Trump) they claimed to BE China -- to represent ALL of China. This independent country bullshit is just another of Trump's lies. We and the rest of the world have never recognized two separate China's ever.
And we didn't "allow" China to do anything -- that's just more of Trump's bullshit.
Our jobs and industries migrated to Asia (mostly Japan) simply because they beat us at our own game: Free Market Capitalism: They built things better, faster and cheaper. And they continue doing so -- just that the industrial center has moved from Japan to China and a few others.
2. You're free to attack the former President all you want, but that's not really relevant to this discussion. We are discussing China's economic and military aggression, not political rhetoric. Of course, I doubt you can separate the two. Number one, Orange Man Bad™ and number two: People who think like you seem to believe that said Orange Man has taken over the brains of 75 million people.
3. We absolutely allowed China to do what it has done. We even encouraged it through our trade policies over the past 20 years. It's not controversial to state that we openly favored China because 1) We like cheap stuff and 2) We thought "free" trade would liberalize them. We have not prevented the CCP from infiltrating every institution we have. Free Market Capitalism....lol. Is that the system you think China has? Are you honestly naive enough to not realize the CCP is part of virtually every industry in China?
If you want to keep screaming "bullshit!" and calling the former President a liar, that's up to you. I'm more interested in the clear and present danger of the Chinese Communist Party.
Wrong, Taiwan is a part of China before Qin ceded it to Japan in 1895 for 50 years.
On one hand, I don't blame Apple for threading the needle with the CCP in order to get access to a market with 5 times the population of U.S. But on the other, that's a lot of money and resources that are building Communist China instead of the United States. China is a major competitor, biggest trade partner, and #1 threat to the U.S. all at the same time. Their government's goal is to be the world superpower by 2050. This was a long-term plan started in the 1970's. We dismissed them for decades, thought we "free" trade could liberalize the CCP, and their military was subpar compared to ours. All that has changed in the last 20 years. While we still have a superior military, they have the capability to win a battle (for example, Taiwan) before we can respond with full force. They also have sophisticated enough equipment (planes, missiles, anti-satellite etc.) to give us real problems.
Is there any actual evidence that China is a threat to the U.S. or that they intend to become the world's leading super (military) power -- or is it just more propaganda left over from the Trump era?
We know how that operates: repeat the lies enough times and they becomes the new alternative facts.
It's hard to believe you're for real sometimes.
Actual evidence? China is building hypersonic missiles, anti-satellite and anti-carrier weapons and modernizing it's 2,000,000-strong PLA at a rapid pace. Real-world spending on actual weapons and capabilities approaches our own. Any China expert will tell you China likely spends double what they claim, and that most of it goes to actual capability (whereas much of our budget goes to pay and maintenance). They have an advanced nuclear capability. That doesn't mean they are planning to attack the United States. But it does mean they want to dominate Asia and deny us access. It does mean that if we move to defend Taiwan, it could result in a major, bloody conflict. Economically, they have been waging war for 50 years. They seek to be the global economic and military superpower. They have stated it openly for decades.
This has nothing to do with "propaganda" or Trump. This was going on long before Trump even ran. China has hollowed us out economically and has infiltrated our institutions more than the Soviets ever could have dreamed. Universities. Congress. Finance. Technology. But yeah, let's keep whistling past our own graveyard, because Orange Man Band™.
Yes, if we try to take what is theirs, they will defend it.
And yes, they don't like U.S. warships and planes threatening them near their homeland and if we push them too far they will sink our silly little boats. They've been clear: they will not allow western countries to colonize or intimidate them again. Ain't gonna happen.
And yes, they beat us in the war of free market capitalism.
... Losing that war to them doesn't make them our enemy anymore than Microsoft is the enemy of Apple.
Does Patrick Mahomes blame Tom Brady for his loss? Does he think Tom Brady is his "enemy"? No, he (hopefully) realizes that he and his team need to get better at what they do.
As I've said, Instead of blaming China for our loss, we need to get better at free market capitalism.
But, we had/have a populist demagogue riling up the frightened disenfranchised chest thumpers looking for excuses for why they lost and offering them quick (but worthless) fixes.
----------------
Added: Interesting that one of our few successful new home grown corporations (Moderna) is opening a new manufacturing plant -- but not here in the U.S. Rather, in Asia (Australia to be exact). Reportedly:
"a second such commitment in Asia Pacific by a western mRNA vaccine
developer, underscores efforts by governments around the world to build
up local production and prepare for future pandemic threats after
limited early access to shots led to slow COVID-19 vaccine rollouts."
Sounds like not even our closest allies trust U.S. industry to meet their needs.
Take what is theirs? Do you mean Taiwan? Because Taiwan has never been "theirs," nor are we trying to take it. We're not the ones building islands in the South China Sea and militarizing them. We're not trying to colonize or intimidate them. On the contrary, we've welcomed and encouraged China to become part of the First World. WTO membership, most favored nation status, you name it.
Two things can be true at the same time. We have allowed China to hollow us out economically, absolutely. But China is not engaging in "free market capitalism." They are engaged in CommunoCapitalism, or fascism by another name. The CCP is tyrannical, like all Communists are. What are we prepared to let them do? Are we going to sit back and let them invade Taiwan? Take over the world economically through their Belt and Road initiative? Infiltrate every sector of our society? How long do you think it will be until the CCP decides it's time to take us on directly? And yes, without a posture change, they will. Because that's what tyrants do. Unless we stand up to China, that day will come. China has the capability today to cause us serious harm. If they wanted, they could launch a simultaneous anti-satellite and naval attack that would destroy most of our capability in the Pacific. They could sink 3 aircraft carriers, 20 submarines, and multiple destroyers as well as disrupt the entire GPS system in one day. They could take Taiwan at the same time. The only reason they won't is they currently believe we will bring to bear all our remaining assets, including nuclear weapons. But the more they see our decline, the more international weakness we show, the more their calculations will change. Look at their behavior since the Afghanistan debacle. They (and Russia) are behaving very aggressively. Putin is going to invade Ukraine, and we will likely do nothing. China is going to see that and conclude in short order that it's time to go for Taiwan, and therein lies the road to war. The military and security complex, along with major parts of both political parties will declare China's taking of Taiwan a bridge too far. If the Biden folks are still in office, they will want to avoid being seen as weak. Bingo...the one thing that crowd can do that we can't undo....World War III.
Sorry, but Taiwan has always been part of China. And, before they claimed to be an independent country (at the urging of our head terrorist Donald Trump) they claimed to BE China -- to represent ALL of China. This independent country bullshit is just another of Trump's lies. We and the rest of the world have never recognized two separate China's ever.
And we didn't "allow" China to do anything -- that's just more of Trump's bullshit.
Our jobs and industries migrated to Asia (mostly Japan) simply because they beat us at our own game: Free Market Capitalism: They built things better, faster and cheaper. And they continue doing so -- just that the industrial center has moved from Japan to China and a few others.
2. You're free to attack the former President all you want, but that's not really relevant to this discussion. We are discussing China's economic and military aggression, not political rhetoric. Of course, I doubt you can separate the two. Number one, Orange Man Bad™ and number two: People who think like you seem to believe that said Orange Man has taken over the brains of 75 million people.
3. We absolutely allowed China to do what it has done. We even encouraged it through our trade policies over the past 20 years. It's not controversial to state that we openly favored China because 1) We like cheap stuff and 2) We thought "free" trade would liberalize them. We have not prevented the CCP from infiltrating every institution we have. Free Market Capitalism....lol. Is that the system you think China has? Are you honestly naive enough to not realize the CCP is part of virtually every industry in China?
If you want to keep screaming "bullshit!" and calling the former President a liar, that's up to you. I'm more interested in the clear and present danger of the Chinese Communist Party.
Wrong, Taiwan is a part of China before Qin ceded it to Japan in 1895 for 50 years.
Yeah? Can't have been that important to China then.
Apple's secret $275 billion deal is a standard cost for doing business in China. I'm sure other companies have similar deals. These deals are simply the way things work under China's ruling party.
Wrong, Taiwan is a part of China before Qin ceded it to Japan in 1895 for 50 years.
Only as a technical matter. From my link:
"These opinions and depictions do not suggest that Taiwan and its environs rose to the level of integral territory for Qing-era Chinese. Historians have shown that popular and official discussion of Taiwan as a part of China, and formal efforts to gain control of Taiwan by the government of the Republic of China (ROC) and its ruling Nationalist Party, originated in the 1930s and 1940s, within the context of anti-Japanese sentiment and war."
and:
Taiwan’s relative standing reflected the fact that knowledge within the Qing government of Taiwan’s geography was so limited that it was not until the 1870s that serious efforts began to govern the majority of the terrain.
(emphasis added)
What we know as Taiwan was annexed by the Chinese in 1684. But the Island was far from integral. The Chinese didn't even attempt to govern it for 200 years. Taiwan is different culturally and economically, and has been through its history.
But I suspect you know that, because you're once again obviously a CCP troll.
Wrong, Taiwan is a part of China before Qin ceded it to Japan in 1895 for 50 years.
Only as a technical matter. From my link:
"These opinions and depictions do not suggest that Taiwan and its environs rose to the level of integral territory for Qing-era Chinese. Historians have shown that popular and official discussion of Taiwan as a part of China, and formal efforts to gain control of Taiwan by the government of the Republic of China (ROC) and its ruling Nationalist Party, originated in the 1930s and 1940s, within the context of anti-Japanese sentiment and war."
and:
Taiwan’s relative standing reflected the fact that knowledge within the Qing government of Taiwan’s geography was so limited that it was not until the 1870s that serious efforts began to govern the majority of the terrain.
(emphasis added)
What we know as Taiwan was annexed by the Chinese in 1684. But the Island was far from integral. The Chinese didn't even attempt to govern it for 200 years. Taiwan is different culturally and economically, and has been through its history.
But I suspect you know that, because you're once again obviously a CCP troll.
Trying to rewrite the truth by exaggerating distorted fact. Please explain why Falkland Island belongs to UK? And US strongly support UK?
Wrong, Taiwan is a part of China before Qin ceded it to Japan in 1895 for 50 years.
Only as a technical matter. From my link:
"These opinions and depictions do not suggest that Taiwan and its environs rose to the level of integral territory for Qing-era Chinese. Historians have shown that popular and official discussion of Taiwan as a part of China, and formal efforts to gain control of Taiwan by the government of the Republic of China (ROC) and its ruling Nationalist Party, originated in the 1930s and 1940s, within the context of anti-Japanese sentiment and war."
and:
Taiwan’s relative standing reflected the fact that knowledge within the Qing government of Taiwan’s geography was so limited that it was not until the 1870s that serious efforts began to govern the majority of the terrain.
(emphasis added)
What we know as Taiwan was annexed by the Chinese in 1684. But the Island was far from integral. The Chinese didn't even attempt to govern it for 200 years. Taiwan is different culturally and economically, and has been through its history.
But I suspect you know that, because you're once again obviously a CCP troll.
Trying to rewrite the truth by exaggerating distorted fact. Please explain why Falkland Island belongs to UK? And US strongly support UK?
The Falkland Islands have been a territory of the UK for over 150 continuous years, and the people there want to be a territory of the UK.
Weird comparison, utterly disproves your own point.
Almost like you don't really care about good faith debate, you just want to throw every conceivable factoid into the blender in the hope that continuous noise will muddy the water, or that something will stick.
You've been well trained shill, but your efforts are transparent.
Wrong, Taiwan is a part of China before Qin ceded it to Japan in 1895 for 50 years.
Only as a technical matter. From my link:
"These opinions and depictions do not suggest that Taiwan and its environs rose to the level of integral territory for Qing-era Chinese. Historians have shown that popular and official discussion of Taiwan as a part of China, and formal efforts to gain control of Taiwan by the government of the Republic of China (ROC) and its ruling Nationalist Party, originated in the 1930s and 1940s, within the context of anti-Japanese sentiment and war."
and:
Taiwan’s relative standing reflected the fact that knowledge within the Qing government of Taiwan’s geography was so limited that it was not until the 1870s that serious efforts began to govern the majority of the terrain.
(emphasis added)
What we know as Taiwan was annexed by the Chinese in 1684. But the Island was far from integral. The Chinese didn't even attempt to govern it for 200 years. Taiwan is different culturally and economically, and has been through its history.
But I suspect you know that, because you're once again obviously a CCP troll.
Trying to rewrite the truth by exaggerating distorted fact. Please explain why Falkland Island belongs to UK? And US strongly support UK?
The Falkland Islands have been a territory of the UK for over 150 continuous years, and the people there want to be a territory of the UK.
Weird comparison, utterly disproves your own point.
Almost like you don't really care about good faith debate, you just want to throw every conceivable factoid into the blender in the hope that continuous noise will muddy the water, or that something will stick.
You've been well trained shill, but your efforts are transparent.
Your logic is full of fallacy missing important facts. First, 150 years is shorter than Taiwan belongs to Qin. Second, it is a colony. Third, Spain governed it in 1774. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands
Why do people expect Apple to do something the US government itself cannot do - stand up for what’s ‘right’ and put the interests of Americans ahead of all else? Governments should manage foreign policy and corporations should manage their business.
People blame Apple because they don’t want to take responsibility for electing the castrated cucks that sold us out to the CCP. US policy towards China has only benefited the CCP, not the US or it’s citizens. I wonder how many ‘holier-than-thou’s criticizing Apple in this forum are also blindly supporting politicians who protect the CCP, just because they have a D next to their name. Cough *Unidentified virus of unknown origin * Cough! Nobody in the establishment is clean when it comes to China - stop whining on this forum and call your congressman instead.
Wrong, Taiwan is a part of China before Qin ceded it to Japan in 1895 for 50 years.
Only as a technical matter. From my link:
"These opinions and depictions do not suggest that Taiwan and its environs rose to the level of integral territory for Qing-era Chinese. Historians have shown that popular and official discussion of Taiwan as a part of China, and formal efforts to gain control of Taiwan by the government of the Republic of China (ROC) and its ruling Nationalist Party, originated in the 1930s and 1940s, within the context of anti-Japanese sentiment and war."
and:
Taiwan’s relative standing reflected the fact that knowledge within the Qing government of Taiwan’s geography was so limited that it was not until the 1870s that serious efforts began to govern the majority of the terrain.
(emphasis added)
What we know as Taiwan was annexed by the Chinese in 1684. But the Island was far from integral. The Chinese didn't even attempt to govern it for 200 years. Taiwan is different culturally and economically, and has been through its history.
But I suspect you know that, because you're once again obviously a CCP troll.
Trying to rewrite the truth by exaggerating distorted fact. Please explain why Falkland Island belongs to UK? And US strongly support UK?
The Falkland Islands have been a territory of the UK for over 150 continuous years, and the people there want to be a territory of the UK.
Weird comparison, utterly disproves your own point.
Almost like you don't really care about good faith debate, you just want to throw every conceivable factoid into the blender in the hope that continuous noise will muddy the water, or that something will stick.
You've been well trained shill, but your efforts are transparent.
Your logic is full of fallacy missing important facts. First, 150 years is shorter than Taiwan belongs to Qin. Second, it is a colony. Third, Spain governed it in 1774. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands
None of that contradicts anything I said.
Taiwan has never been governed by the PRC. The Qin Empire is irrelevant, it does not exist any more. And the people in Taiwan do not want to be part of a PRC-governed China.
The British Government has been uninterrupted in continuity since at least 1689 (and even then only arguably). And it has been sovereign over the Falkland islands for over 150 (closer to 200) of those years, continuously, bar a 3 month hostile occupation. And the people there overwhelmingly voted to remain as a British Overseas Territory very recently. In living memory there is no legitimate Argentinian claim, only wounded national pride.
They do not compare not at all. This is a stupid analogy. Get better information, you absolute tool.
On one hand, I don't blame Apple for threading the needle with the CCP in order to get access to a market with 5 times the population of U.S. But on the other, that's a lot of money and resources that are building Communist China instead of the United States. China is a major competitor, biggest trade partner, and #1 threat to the U.S. all at the same time. Their government's goal is to be the world superpower by 2050. This was a long-term plan started in the 1970's. We dismissed them for decades, thought we "free" trade could liberalize the CCP, and their military was subpar compared to ours. All that has changed in the last 20 years. While we still have a superior military, they have the capability to win a battle (for example, Taiwan) before we can respond with full force. They also have sophisticated enough equipment (planes, missiles, anti-satellite etc.) to give us real problems.
Is there any actual evidence that China is a threat to the U.S. or that they intend to become the world's leading super (military) power -- or is it just more propaganda left over from the Trump era?
We know how that operates: repeat the lies enough times and they becomes the new alternative facts.
It's hard to believe you're for real sometimes.
Actual evidence? China is building hypersonic missiles, anti-satellite and anti-carrier weapons and modernizing it's 2,000,000-strong PLA at a rapid pace. Real-world spending on actual weapons and capabilities approaches our own. Any China expert will tell you China likely spends double what they claim, and that most of it goes to actual capability (whereas much of our budget goes to pay and maintenance). They have an advanced nuclear capability. That doesn't mean they are planning to attack the United States. But it does mean they want to dominate Asia and deny us access. It does mean that if we move to defend Taiwan, it could result in a major, bloody conflict. Economically, they have been waging war for 50 years. They seek to be the global economic and military superpower. They have stated it openly for decades.
This has nothing to do with "propaganda" or Trump. This was going on long before Trump even ran. China has hollowed us out economically and has infiltrated our institutions more than the Soviets ever could have dreamed. Universities. Congress. Finance. Technology. But yeah, let's keep whistling past our own graveyard, because Orange Man Band™.
Yes, if we try to take what is theirs, they will defend it.
And yes, they don't like U.S. warships and planes threatening them near their homeland and if we push them too far they will sink our silly little boats. They've been clear: they will not allow western countries to colonize or intimidate them again. Ain't gonna happen.
And yes, they beat us in the war of free market capitalism.
... Losing that war to them doesn't make them our enemy anymore than Microsoft is the enemy of Apple.
Does Patrick Mahomes blame Tom Brady for his loss? Does he think Tom Brady is his "enemy"? No, he (hopefully) realizes that he and his team need to get better at what they do.
As I've said, Instead of blaming China for our loss, we need to get better at free market capitalism.
But, we had/have a populist demagogue riling up the frightened disenfranchised chest thumpers looking for excuses for why they lost and offering them quick (but worthless) fixes.
----------------
Added: Interesting that one of our few successful new home grown corporations (Moderna) is opening a new manufacturing plant -- but not here in the U.S. Rather, in Asia (Australia to be exact). Reportedly:
"a second such commitment in Asia Pacific by a western mRNA vaccine
developer, underscores efforts by governments around the world to build
up local production and prepare for future pandemic threats after
limited early access to shots led to slow COVID-19 vaccine rollouts."
Sounds like not even our closest allies trust U.S. industry to meet their needs.
Take what is theirs? Do you mean Taiwan? Because Taiwan has never been "theirs," nor are we trying to take it. We're not the ones building islands in the South China Sea and militarizing them. We're not trying to colonize or intimidate them. On the contrary, we've welcomed and encouraged China to become part of the First World. WTO membership, most favored nation status, you name it.
Two things can be true at the same time. We have allowed China to hollow us out economically, absolutely. But China is not engaging in "free market capitalism." They are engaged in CommunoCapitalism, or fascism by another name. The CCP is tyrannical, like all Communists are. What are we prepared to let them do? Are we going to sit back and let them invade Taiwan? Take over the world economically through their Belt and Road initiative? Infiltrate every sector of our society? How long do you think it will be until the CCP decides it's time to take us on directly? And yes, without a posture change, they will. Because that's what tyrants do. Unless we stand up to China, that day will come. China has the capability today to cause us serious harm. If they wanted, they could launch a simultaneous anti-satellite and naval attack that would destroy most of our capability in the Pacific. They could sink 3 aircraft carriers, 20 submarines, and multiple destroyers as well as disrupt the entire GPS system in one day. They could take Taiwan at the same time. The only reason they won't is they currently believe we will bring to bear all our remaining assets, including nuclear weapons. But the more they see our decline, the more international weakness we show, the more their calculations will change. Look at their behavior since the Afghanistan debacle. They (and Russia) are behaving very aggressively. Putin is going to invade Ukraine, and we will likely do nothing. China is going to see that and conclude in short order that it's time to go for Taiwan, and therein lies the road to war. The military and security complex, along with major parts of both political parties will declare China's taking of Taiwan a bridge too far. If the Biden folks are still in office, they will want to avoid being seen as weak. Bingo...the one thing that crowd can do that we can't undo....World War III.
Sorry, but Taiwan has always been part of China. And, before they claimed to be an independent country (at the urging of our head terrorist Donald Trump) they claimed to BE China -- to represent ALL of China. This independent country bullshit is just another of Trump's lies. We and the rest of the world have never recognized two separate China's ever.
And we didn't "allow" China to do anything -- that's just more of Trump's bullshit.
Our jobs and industries migrated to Asia (mostly Japan) simply because they beat us at our own game: Free Market Capitalism: They built things better, faster and cheaper. And they continue doing so -- just that the industrial center has moved from Japan to China and a few others.
2. You're free to attack the former President all you want, but that's not really relevant to this discussion. We are discussing China's economic and military aggression, not political rhetoric. Of course, I doubt you can separate the two. Number one, Orange Man Bad™ and number two: People who think like you seem to believe that said Orange Man has taken over the brains of 75 million people.
3. We absolutely allowed China to do what it has done. We even encouraged it through our trade policies over the past 20 years. It's not controversial to state that we openly favored China because 1) We like cheap stuff and 2) We thought "free" trade would liberalize them. We have not prevented the CCP from infiltrating every institution we have. Free Market Capitalism....lol. Is that the system you think China has? Are you honestly naive enough to not realize the CCP is part of virtually every industry in China?
If you want to keep screaming "bullshit!" and calling the former President a liar, that's up to you. I'm more interested in the clear and present danger of the Chinese Communist Party.
1) Before they claimed to be an independent country (which even the U.S. acknowledges is bullshit!) they claimed to BE China -- all of it. Once the world called Bullshit (back in the 70's) they kept a low profile until Donald the Terror stirred up rebellion against China.
2) It was Donald the Terrorist who stirred up insurrection in both Hong Kong and Taiwan in order to attack China. Since he originated all this nonsense, he is very relevant.
3) So, what did China do except beat us at our own game: Free Market Capitalism. They make things better, faster and cheaper than we can -- while they lifted their people out of poverty and created a middle class that never existed there. I find that reason to admire them. Trump and his followers find it reason to hate them.
Wrong, Taiwan is a part of China before Qin ceded it to Japan in 1895 for 50 years.
Only as a technical matter. From my link:
"These opinions and depictions do not suggest that Taiwan and its environs rose to the level of integral territory for Qing-era Chinese. Historians have shown that popular and official discussion of Taiwan as a part of China, and formal efforts to gain control of Taiwan by the government of the Republic of China (ROC) and its ruling Nationalist Party, originated in the 1930s and 1940s, within the context of anti-Japanese sentiment and war."
and:
Taiwan’s relative standing reflected the fact that knowledge within the Qing government of Taiwan’s geography was so limited that it was not until the 1870s that serious efforts began to govern the majority of the terrain.
(emphasis added)
What we know as Taiwan was annexed by the Chinese in 1684. But the Island was far from integral. The Chinese didn't even attempt to govern it for 200 years. Taiwan is different culturally and economically, and has been through its history.
But I suspect you know that, because you're once again obviously a CCP troll.
Trying to rewrite the truth by exaggerating distorted fact. Please explain why Falkland Island belongs to UK? And US strongly support UK?
The Falkland Islands have been a territory of the UK for over 150 continuous years, and the people there want to be a territory of the UK.
Weird comparison, utterly disproves your own point.
Almost like you don't really care about good faith debate, you just want to throw every conceivable factoid into the blender in the hope that continuous noise will muddy the water, or that something will stick.
You've been well trained shill, but your efforts are transparent.
Your logic is full of fallacy missing important facts. First, 150 years is shorter than Taiwan belongs to Qin. Second, it is a colony. Third, Spain governed it in 1774. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands
None of that contradicts anything I said.
Taiwan has never been governed by the PRC. The Qin Empire is irrelevant, it does not exist any more. And the people in Taiwan do not want to be part of a PRC-governed China.
The British Government has been uninterrupted in continuity since at least 1689 (and even then only arguably). And it has been sovereign over the Falkland islands for over 150 (closer to 200) of those years, continuously, bar a 3 month hostile occupation. And the people there overwhelmingly voted to remain as a British Overseas Territory very recently. In living memory there is no legitimate Argentinian claim, only wounded national pride.
They do not compare not at all. This is a stupid analogy. Get better information, you absolute tool.
You are still full of fallacy. France is the first to build Port Louis in 1764. And this is the first time it has people living there. Your 1689 is BS.
PRC is the rolling party of China. You mix up a ruling part with a nation. Your civics failed. Taiwanese do not want be ruled by CCP simply due to the fact that Taiwan is economically more advanced than mainland. They are richer.
Why do people expect Apple to do something the US government itself cannot do - stand up for what’s ‘right’ and put the interests of Americans ahead of all else? Governments should manage foreign policy and corporations should manage their business.
People blame Apple because they don’t want to take responsibility for electing the castrated cucks that sold us out to the CCP. US policy towards China has only benefited the CCP, not the US or it’s citizens. I wonder how many ‘holier-than-thou’s criticizing Apple in this forum are also blindly supporting politicians who protect the CCP, just because they have a D next to their name. Cough *Unidentified virus of unknown origin * Cough! Nobody in the establishment is clean when it comes to China - stop whining on this forum and call your congressman instead.
Do what's right? That's what Apple did: They went to the place that could assemble their iPhones better, faster, more reliably and cheaper than anywhere else. I WON! I got the best phone possible at the lowest price possible.
That IS putting the interests of Americans first.
If you want to pay more for a lower quality product go right ahead.
By the way, the U.S. government did try to stop it when American industry was presented with the choice of flee or fail back in the 80's. They couldn't stop the migration. Free Market Capitalism won. It always does eventually.
Wrong, Taiwan is a part of China before Qin ceded it to Japan in 1895 for 50 years.
Only as a technical matter. From my link:
"These opinions and depictions do not suggest that Taiwan and its environs rose to the level of integral territory for Qing-era Chinese. Historians have shown that popular and official discussion of Taiwan as a part of China, and formal efforts to gain control of Taiwan by the government of the Republic of China (ROC) and its ruling Nationalist Party, originated in the 1930s and 1940s, within the context of anti-Japanese sentiment and war."
and:
Taiwan’s relative standing reflected the fact that knowledge within the Qing government of Taiwan’s geography was so limited that it was not until the 1870s that serious efforts began to govern the majority of the terrain.
(emphasis added)
What we know as Taiwan was annexed by the Chinese in 1684. But the Island was far from integral. The Chinese didn't even attempt to govern it for 200 years. Taiwan is different culturally and economically, and has been through its history.
But I suspect you know that, because you're once again obviously a CCP troll.
Trying to rewrite the truth by exaggerating distorted fact. Please explain why Falkland Island belongs to UK? And US strongly support UK?
The Falkland Islands have been a territory of the UK for over 150 continuous years, and the people there want to be a territory of the UK.
Weird comparison, utterly disproves your own point.
Almost like you don't really care about good faith debate, you just want to throw every conceivable factoid into the blender in the hope that continuous noise will muddy the water, or that something will stick.
You've been well trained shill, but your efforts are transparent.
Your logic is full of fallacy missing important facts. First, 150 years is shorter than Taiwan belongs to Qin. Second, it is a colony. Third, Spain governed it in 1774. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands
None of that contradicts anything I said.
Taiwan has never been governed by the PRC. The Qin Empire is irrelevant, it does not exist any more. And the people in Taiwan do not want to be part of a PRC-governed China.
The British Government has been uninterrupted in continuity since at least 1689 (and even then only arguably). And it has been sovereign over the Falkland islands for over 150 (closer to 200) of those years, continuously, bar a 3 month hostile occupation. And the people there overwhelmingly voted to remain as a British Overseas Territory very recently. In living memory there is no legitimate Argentinian claim, only wounded national pride.
They do not compare not at all. This is a stupid analogy. Get better information, you absolute tool.
You are still full of fallacy. France is the first to build Port Louis in 1764. And this is the first time it has people living there. Your 1689 is BS.
PRC is the rolling party of China. You mix up a ruling part with a nation. Your civics failed. Taiwanese do not want be ruled by CCP simply due to the fact that Taiwan is economically more advanced than mainland. They are richer.
Again, nothing you've said contradicts what I said. France is irrelevant, it is all ancient history and France make no claim over the Falklands. 1689 is the year of the Glorious Revolution in Britain, it is not BS at all.
The PRC is the ruling part of mainland China, that I do not dispute. They achieved that by seizing power from the ROC, no point in disputing that. But they never seized that power in Taiwan, where the ROC has had sovereignty since 1945. The PRC has never exercised control over Taiwan. My civics are absolutely fine, child. The reason why the Taiwanese don't want to be ruled by the PRC is certainly not limited to wealth, and even if it were, irrelevant, that's their prerogative.
Look, I appreciate your handler has only just clued you in on this Falkland Island stuff and you're having to learn it pretty fast, but you should read up before launching into this nonsense, you're embarrassing yourself and your noble cause.
On one hand, I don't blame Apple for threading the needle with the CCP in order to get access to a market with 5 times the population of U.S. But on the other, that's a lot of money and resources that are building Communist China instead of the United States. China is a major competitor, biggest trade partner, and #1 threat to the U.S. all at the same time. Their government's goal is to be the world superpower by 2050. This was a long-term plan started in the 1970's. We dismissed them for decades, thought we "free" trade could liberalize the CCP, and their military was subpar compared to ours. All that has changed in the last 20 years. While we still have a superior military, they have the capability to win a battle (for example, Taiwan) before we can respond with full force. They also have sophisticated enough equipment (planes, missiles, anti-satellite etc.) to give us real problems.
Is there any actual evidence that China is a threat to the U.S. or that they intend to become the world's leading super (military) power -- or is it just more propaganda left over from the Trump era?
We know how that operates: repeat the lies enough times and they becomes the new alternative facts.
It's hard to believe you're for real sometimes.
Actual evidence? China is building hypersonic missiles, anti-satellite and anti-carrier weapons and modernizing it's 2,000,000-strong PLA at a rapid pace. Real-world spending on actual weapons and capabilities approaches our own. Any China expert will tell you China likely spends double what they claim, and that most of it goes to actual capability (whereas much of our budget goes to pay and maintenance). They have an advanced nuclear capability. That doesn't mean they are planning to attack the United States. But it does mean they want to dominate Asia and deny us access. It does mean that if we move to defend Taiwan, it could result in a major, bloody conflict. Economically, they have been waging war for 50 years. They seek to be the global economic and military superpower. They have stated it openly for decades.
This has nothing to do with "propaganda" or Trump. This was going on long before Trump even ran. China has hollowed us out economically and has infiltrated our institutions more than the Soviets ever could have dreamed. Universities. Congress. Finance. Technology. But yeah, let's keep whistling past our own graveyard, because Orange Man Band™.
Yes, if we try to take what is theirs, they will defend it.
And yes, they don't like U.S. warships and planes threatening them near their homeland and if we push them too far they will sink our silly little boats. They've been clear: they will not allow western countries to colonize or intimidate them again. Ain't gonna happen.
And yes, they beat us in the war of free market capitalism.
... Losing that war to them doesn't make them our enemy anymore than Microsoft is the enemy of Apple.
Does Patrick Mahomes blame Tom Brady for his loss? Does he think Tom Brady is his "enemy"? No, he (hopefully) realizes that he and his team need to get better at what they do.
As I've said, Instead of blaming China for our loss, we need to get better at free market capitalism.
But, we had/have a populist demagogue riling up the frightened disenfranchised chest thumpers looking for excuses for why they lost and offering them quick (but worthless) fixes.
----------------
Added: Interesting that one of our few successful new home grown corporations (Moderna) is opening a new manufacturing plant -- but not here in the U.S. Rather, in Asia (Australia to be exact). Reportedly:
"a second such commitment in Asia Pacific by a western mRNA vaccine
developer, underscores efforts by governments around the world to build
up local production and prepare for future pandemic threats after
limited early access to shots led to slow COVID-19 vaccine rollouts."
Sounds like not even our closest allies trust U.S. industry to meet their needs.
Take what is theirs? Do you mean Taiwan? Because Taiwan has never been "theirs," nor are we trying to take it. We're not the ones building islands in the South China Sea and militarizing them. We're not trying to colonize or intimidate them. On the contrary, we've welcomed and encouraged China to become part of the First World. WTO membership, most favored nation status, you name it.
Two things can be true at the same time. We have allowed China to hollow us out economically, absolutely. But China is not engaging in "free market capitalism." They are engaged in CommunoCapitalism, or fascism by another name. The CCP is tyrannical, like all Communists are. What are we prepared to let them do? Are we going to sit back and let them invade Taiwan? Take over the world economically through their Belt and Road initiative? Infiltrate every sector of our society? How long do you think it will be until the CCP decides it's time to take us on directly? And yes, without a posture change, they will. Because that's what tyrants do. Unless we stand up to China, that day will come. China has the capability today to cause us serious harm. If they wanted, they could launch a simultaneous anti-satellite and naval attack that would destroy most of our capability in the Pacific. They could sink 3 aircraft carriers, 20 submarines, and multiple destroyers as well as disrupt the entire GPS system in one day. They could take Taiwan at the same time. The only reason they won't is they currently believe we will bring to bear all our remaining assets, including nuclear weapons. But the more they see our decline, the more international weakness we show, the more their calculations will change. Look at their behavior since the Afghanistan debacle. They (and Russia) are behaving very aggressively. Putin is going to invade Ukraine, and we will likely do nothing. China is going to see that and conclude in short order that it's time to go for Taiwan, and therein lies the road to war. The military and security complex, along with major parts of both political parties will declare China's taking of Taiwan a bridge too far. If the Biden folks are still in office, they will want to avoid being seen as weak. Bingo...the one thing that crowd can do that we can't undo....World War III.
Sorry, but Taiwan has always been part of China. And, before they claimed to be an independent country (at the urging of our head terrorist Donald Trump) they claimed to BE China -- to represent ALL of China. This independent country bullshit is just another of Trump's lies. We and the rest of the world have never recognized two separate China's ever.
And we didn't "allow" China to do anything -- that's just more of Trump's bullshit.
Our jobs and industries migrated to Asia (mostly Japan) simply because they beat us at our own game: Free Market Capitalism: They built things better, faster and cheaper. And they continue doing so -- just that the industrial center has moved from Japan to China and a few others.
2. You're free to attack the former President all you want, but that's not really relevant to this discussion. We are discussing China's economic and military aggression, not political rhetoric. Of course, I doubt you can separate the two. Number one, Orange Man Bad™ and number two: People who think like you seem to believe that said Orange Man has taken over the brains of 75 million people.
3. We absolutely allowed China to do what it has done. We even encouraged it through our trade policies over the past 20 years. It's not controversial to state that we openly favored China because 1) We like cheap stuff and 2) We thought "free" trade would liberalize them. We have not prevented the CCP from infiltrating every institution we have. Free Market Capitalism....lol. Is that the system you think China has? Are you honestly naive enough to not realize the CCP is part of virtually every industry in China?
If you want to keep screaming "bullshit!" and calling the former President a liar, that's up to you. I'm more interested in the clear and present danger of the Chinese Communist Party.
1) Before they claimed to be an independent country (which even the U.S. acknowledges is bullshit!) they claimed to BE China -- all of it. Once the world called Bullshit (back in the 70's) they kept a low profile until Donald the Terror stirred up rebellion against China.
2) It was Donald the Terrorist who stirred up insurrection in both Hong Kong and Taiwan in order to attack China. Since he originated all this nonsense, he is very relevant.
3) So, what did China do except beat us at our own game: Free Market Capitalism. They make things better, faster and cheaper than we can -- while they lifted their people out of poverty and created a middle class that never existed there. I find that reason to admire them. Trump and his followers find it reason to hate them.
What did China do except beat us at our own game? I believe it is the Chinese culture that there is no free lunch. In US there are millions of people that are able to work but taking welfare instead. The unemployment rate in US is a cheat. It counted only people looking for work. The welfare people are not counted as unemployed. If US works like China and numerous other nations that all able people are working, I don't see US will lose economic war to China. On the other hand, US politicians want to divert attention on this miserable fact, they choose to attack China based on unverified force labor accusation.
Wrong, Taiwan is a part of China before Qin ceded it to Japan in 1895 for 50 years.
Only as a technical matter. From my link:
"These opinions and depictions do not suggest that Taiwan and its environs rose to the level of integral territory for Qing-era Chinese. Historians have shown that popular and official discussion of Taiwan as a part of China, and formal efforts to gain control of Taiwan by the government of the Republic of China (ROC) and its ruling Nationalist Party, originated in the 1930s and 1940s, within the context of anti-Japanese sentiment and war."
and:
Taiwan’s relative standing reflected the fact that knowledge within the Qing government of Taiwan’s geography was so limited that it was not until the 1870s that serious efforts began to govern the majority of the terrain.
(emphasis added)
What we know as Taiwan was annexed by the Chinese in 1684. But the Island was far from integral. The Chinese didn't even attempt to govern it for 200 years. Taiwan is different culturally and economically, and has been through its history.
But I suspect you know that, because you're once again obviously a CCP troll.
Trying to rewrite the truth by exaggerating distorted fact. Please explain why Falkland Island belongs to UK? And US strongly support UK?
The Falkland Islands have been a territory of the UK for over 150 continuous years, and the people there want to be a territory of the UK.
Weird comparison, utterly disproves your own point.
Almost like you don't really care about good faith debate, you just want to throw every conceivable factoid into the blender in the hope that continuous noise will muddy the water, or that something will stick.
You've been well trained shill, but your efforts are transparent.
Your logic is full of fallacy missing important facts. First, 150 years is shorter than Taiwan belongs to Qin. Second, it is a colony. Third, Spain governed it in 1774. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands
None of that contradicts anything I said.
Taiwan has never been governed by the PRC. The Qin Empire is irrelevant, it does not exist any more. And the people in Taiwan do not want to be part of a PRC-governed China.
The British Government has been uninterrupted in continuity since at least 1689 (and even then only arguably). And it has been sovereign over the Falkland islands for over 150 (closer to 200) of those years, continuously, bar a 3 month hostile occupation. And the people there overwhelmingly voted to remain as a British Overseas Territory very recently. In living memory there is no legitimate Argentinian claim, only wounded national pride.
They do not compare not at all. This is a stupid analogy. Get better information, you absolute tool.
Like the American South, they fought a civil war and lost. After they lost however, they claimed to represent ALL of China -- from their little island all the way over to the Afghan border. For awhile the world put up with that obvious nonsense but, in the 1970's the world recognized that was bullshit and recognized that Taiwan was part of the mainland. It still does -- and that is OFFICIAL U.S. POLICY: TAIWAN IS PART OF CHINA.
Sorry if you don't like that history. But you don't get to rewrite it because it doesn't fit your ideology.
Wrong, Taiwan is a part of China before Qin ceded it to Japan in 1895 for 50 years.
Only as a technical matter. From my link:
"These opinions and depictions do not suggest that Taiwan and its environs rose to the level of integral territory for Qing-era Chinese. Historians have shown that popular and official discussion of Taiwan as a part of China, and formal efforts to gain control of Taiwan by the government of the Republic of China (ROC) and its ruling Nationalist Party, originated in the 1930s and 1940s, within the context of anti-Japanese sentiment and war."
and:
Taiwan’s relative standing reflected the fact that knowledge within the Qing government of Taiwan’s geography was so limited that it was not until the 1870s that serious efforts began to govern the majority of the terrain.
(emphasis added)
What we know as Taiwan was annexed by the Chinese in 1684. But the Island was far from integral. The Chinese didn't even attempt to govern it for 200 years. Taiwan is different culturally and economically, and has been through its history.
But I suspect you know that, because you're once again obviously a CCP troll.
Trying to rewrite the truth by exaggerating distorted fact. Please explain why Falkland Island belongs to UK? And US strongly support UK?
The Falkland Islands have been a territory of the UK for over 150 continuous years, and the people there want to be a territory of the UK.
Weird comparison, utterly disproves your own point.
Almost like you don't really care about good faith debate, you just want to throw every conceivable factoid into the blender in the hope that continuous noise will muddy the water, or that something will stick.
You've been well trained shill, but your efforts are transparent.
Your logic is full of fallacy missing important facts. First, 150 years is shorter than Taiwan belongs to Qin. Second, it is a colony. Third, Spain governed it in 1774. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands
None of that contradicts anything I said.
Taiwan has never been governed by the PRC. The Qin Empire is irrelevant, it does not exist any more. And the people in Taiwan do not want to be part of a PRC-governed China.
The British Government has been uninterrupted in continuity since at least 1689 (and even then only arguably). And it has been sovereign over the Falkland islands for over 150 (closer to 200) of those years, continuously, bar a 3 month hostile occupation. And the people there overwhelmingly voted to remain as a British Overseas Territory very recently. In living memory there is no legitimate Argentinian claim, only wounded national pride.
They do not compare not at all. This is a stupid analogy. Get better information, you absolute tool.
You are still full of fallacy. France is the first to build Port Louis in 1764. And this is the first time it has people living there. Your 1689 is BS.
PRC is the rolling party of China. You mix up a ruling part with a nation. Your civics failed. Taiwanese do not want be ruled by CCP simply due to the fact that Taiwan is economically more advanced than mainland. They are richer.
Again, nothing you've said contradicts what I said. France is irrelevant, it is all ancient history and France make no claim over the Falklands. 1689 is the year of the Glorious Revolution in Britain, it is not BS at all.
The PRC is the ruling part of mainland China, that I do not dispute. They achieved that by seizing power from the ROC, no point in disputing that. But they never seized that power in Taiwan, where the ROC has had sovereignty since 1945. The PRC has never exercised control over Taiwan. My civics are absolutely fine, child. The reason why the Taiwanese don't want to be ruled by the PRC is certainly not limited to wealth, and even if it were, irrelevant, that's their prerogative.
Look, I appreciate your handler has only just clued you in on this Falkland Island stuff and you're having to learn it pretty fast, but you should read up before launching into this nonsense, you're embarrassing yourself and your noble cause.
Falkland Island has belonged to Spain before. You tried to omit this fact. Your civics failed miserably. Geographically the island is ten thousand miles away from UK unlike Argentine is only several hundred miles. And only 3398 people live on it with an area of over 12,000 square km.
Five years ago Taiwan is trying to sign a service trade deal with mainland. Hundreds of young people staged a riot overtaking the legislative house similar to the Jan 6 riot in DC. What is their reason? They are afraid that mainlanders are more competitive.
HK is similar. HK was well developed than mainland China. But China's economic growth is making losing advantage. So there are some people trying to prevent China making HK irrelevant. This is similar to what Biden is doing against China.
Comments
Thanks for your in-depth response. You're really engaging in a spirited debate about Chinese Communist aggression.
--No one.
1. Wrong. Taiwan has never really been part of China. That claim started in the 1930's and 40's. https://thediplomat.com/2021/06/was-taiwan-ever-really-a-part-of-china/ ;
2. You're free to attack the former President all you want, but that's not really relevant to this discussion. We are discussing China's economic and military aggression, not political rhetoric. Of course, I doubt you can separate the two. Number one, Orange Man Bad™ and number two: People who think like you seem to believe that said Orange Man has taken over the brains of 75 million people.
3. We absolutely allowed China to do what it has done. We even encouraged it through our trade policies over the past 20 years. It's not controversial to state that we openly favored China because 1) We like cheap stuff and 2) We thought "free" trade would liberalize them. We have not prevented the CCP from infiltrating every institution we have. Free Market Capitalism....lol. Is that the system you think China has? Are you honestly naive enough to not realize the CCP is part of virtually every industry in China?
If you want to keep screaming "bullshit!" and calling the former President a liar, that's up to you. I'm more interested in the clear and present danger of the Chinese Communist Party.
I'm sure other companies have similar deals.
These deals are simply the way things work under China's ruling party.
Only as a technical matter. From my link:
"These opinions and depictions do not suggest that Taiwan and its environs rose to the level of integral territory for Qing-era Chinese. Historians have shown that popular and official discussion of Taiwan as a part of China, and formal efforts to gain control of Taiwan by the government of the Republic of China (ROC) and its ruling Nationalist Party, originated in the 1930s and 1940s, within the context of anti-Japanese sentiment and war."
and:
Taiwan’s relative standing reflected the fact that knowledge within the Qing government of Taiwan’s geography was so limited that it was not until the 1870s that serious efforts began to govern the majority of the terrain.
(emphasis added)
What we know as Taiwan was annexed by the Chinese in 1684. But the Island was far from integral. The Chinese didn't even attempt to govern it for 200 years. Taiwan is different culturally and economically, and has been through its history.
But I suspect you know that, because you're once again obviously a CCP troll.
Weird comparison, utterly disproves your own point.
Almost like you don't really care about good faith debate, you just want to throw every conceivable factoid into the blender in the hope that continuous noise will muddy the water, or that something will stick.
You've been well trained shill, but your efforts are transparent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBb3fbpiPMU
People blame Apple because they don’t want to take responsibility for electing the castrated cucks that sold us out to the CCP. US policy towards China has only benefited the CCP, not the US or it’s citizens. I wonder how many ‘holier-than-thou’s criticizing Apple in this forum are also blindly supporting politicians who protect the CCP, just because they have a D next to their name. Cough *Unidentified virus of unknown origin * Cough! Nobody in the establishment is clean when it comes to China - stop whining on this forum and call your congressman instead.
Taiwan has never been governed by the PRC. The Qin Empire is irrelevant, it does not exist any more. And the people in Taiwan do not want to be part of a PRC-governed China.
The British Government has been uninterrupted in continuity since at least 1689 (and even then only arguably). And it has been sovereign over the Falkland islands for over 150 (closer to 200) of those years, continuously, bar a 3 month hostile occupation. And the people there overwhelmingly voted to remain as a British Overseas Territory very recently. In living memory there is no legitimate Argentinian claim, only wounded national pride.
They do not compare not at all. This is a stupid analogy. Get better information, you absolute tool.
PRC is the rolling party of China. You mix up a ruling part with a nation. Your civics failed. Taiwanese do not want be ruled by CCP simply due to the fact that Taiwan is economically more advanced than mainland. They are richer.
The PRC is the ruling part of mainland China, that I do not dispute. They achieved that by seizing power from the ROC, no point in disputing that. But they never seized that power in Taiwan, where the ROC has had sovereignty since 1945. The PRC has never exercised control over Taiwan. My civics are absolutely fine, child. The reason why the Taiwanese don't want to be ruled by the PRC is certainly not limited to wealth, and even if it were, irrelevant, that's their prerogative.
Look, I appreciate your handler has only just clued you in on this Falkland Island stuff and you're having to learn it pretty fast, but you should read up before launching into this nonsense, you're embarrassing yourself and your noble cause.
Five years ago Taiwan is trying to sign a service trade deal with mainland. Hundreds of young people staged a riot overtaking the legislative house similar to the Jan 6 riot in DC. What is their reason? They are afraid that mainlanders are more competitive.
HK is similar. HK was well developed than mainland China. But China's economic growth is making losing advantage. So there are some people trying to prevent China making HK irrelevant. This is similar to what Biden is doing against China.