Apple shifted orders from Foxconn to Luxshare to assist $275B China deal

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 55
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,543moderator
    Just pull all manufacturer out of China.  They will use the money we pay them to build their military and attack us at some point in time.  We are stupid to think otherwise.  All they have to do now is claim ownership of an American company in China and take it and all it’s assets and IP over and we are powerless to do anything.  But the shareholders will cry and ask our average American sons and daughters in the military will be asked to step up and ensure the .1 of 1%-ters keep their share.  We should never have enrich our advisories for profit and we never ever should have exported our superior computer technology around the world giving up our supremacy.  Gloomy picture, I know.  But the world is run by a few greedy families and its all legal and very obfuscated.
    This is bs propaganda! Why would a nation busy producing goods for the world plan to attack in the future? Only a hateful person will use this kind of logic. 
    Just ignore it.  There’s a lot of folks who believe 
    they could solve the world’s problems if only someone would put them in charge.  And messages like this from our friend AppleUfmyl are the solutions offered.  But the world is a bit more complex.   Let them dream of simple solutions.  
    williamlondonmuthuk_vanalingamravnorodom
  • Reply 22 of 55
    ronn said:
    Just pull all manufacturer out of China.  They will use the money we pay them to build their military and attack us at some point in time.  We are stupid to think otherwise.  All they have to do now is claim ownership of an American company in China and take it and all it’s assets and IP over and we are powerless to do anything.  But the shareholders will cry and ask our average American sons and daughters in the military will be asked to step up and ensure the .1 of 1%-ters keep their share.  We should never have enrich our advisories for profit and we never ever should have exported our superior computer technology around the world giving up our supremacy.  Gloomy picture, I know.  But the world is run by a few greedy families and its all legal and very obfuscated.
    This is bs propaganda! Why would a nation busy producing goods for the world plan to attack in the future? Only a hateful person will use this kind of logic. 
    Africa (Zambia, Uganda, etc), South America (Ecuador and Venezuela), Europe (Montenegro) and Asia (Sri Lanka and Malaysia) are burdened with Chinese loans negotiated by corrupt and/or totalitarian dictatorships that have placed them in debt-trap situations. It really should be called Death-Trap "Diplomacy" as the CCP will eventually make demands on oil reserves, airports, sea ports and other sovereign assets. Some of the terms are onerous. Once the defaults are official, it'll be all over for 100s of millions.
    Sounds exactly like the IMF and World Bank.
    waveparticlemuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 23 of 55
    Just pull all manufacturer out of China.  They will use the money we pay them to build their military and attack us at some point in time.  We are stupid to think otherwise.  All they have to do now is claim ownership of an American company in China and take it and all it’s assets and IP over and we are powerless to do anything.  But the shareholders will cry and ask our average American sons and daughters in the military will be asked to step up and ensure the .1 of 1%-ters keep their share.  We should never have enrich our advisories for profit and we never ever should have exported our superior computer technology around the world giving up our supremacy.  Gloomy picture, I know.  But the world is run by a few greedy families and its all legal and very obfuscated.
    This is bs propaganda! Why would a nation busy producing goods for the world plan to attack in the future? Only a hateful person will use this kind of logic. 
    Apparently someone hasn’t seen chinas military recruitment video… nor paid attention to the news that China developed and successfully tested a middle that can travel the globe and be within 10 miles of target accuracy - something that somehow was done right under the noses of U. S. intelligence. 
    And you don't know what US military have? Twenty times the speed of sound missile. Furthermore, Russia tested ten times sound speed missile (yes! it is a missile) later, yet the China haters and US government said nothing about it. 
  • Reply 24 of 55
    The best situation is for Apple to manufacture products for China's internal market in China.  And move everything else out of the country (as feasible as possible).
    Because at some point China is going to to create an international situation (invade Taiwan, take over the South China Sea...) that will cause the western governments to block the majority of trade.  Apple will be in a very precarious position if a significant portion of their international product remains in China.
    cat52
  • Reply 25 of 55
    ronnronn Posts: 559member
    ronn said:
    Just pull all manufacturer out of China.  They will use the money we pay them to build their military and attack us at some point in time.  We are stupid to think otherwise.  All they have to do now is claim ownership of an American company in China and take it and all it’s assets and IP over and we are powerless to do anything.  But the shareholders will cry and ask our average American sons and daughters in the military will be asked to step up and ensure the .1 of 1%-ters keep their share.  We should never have enrich our advisories for profit and we never ever should have exported our superior computer technology around the world giving up our supremacy.  Gloomy picture, I know.  But the world is run by a few greedy families and its all legal and very obfuscated.
    This is bs propaganda! Why would a nation busy producing goods for the world plan to attack in the future? Only a hateful person will use this kind of logic. 
    Africa (Zambia, Uganda, etc), South America (Ecuador and Venezuela), Europe (Montenegro) and Asia (Sri Lanka and Malaysia) are burdened with Chinese loans negotiated by corrupt and/or totalitarian dictatorships that have placed them in debt-trap situations. It really should be called Death-Trap "Diplomacy" as the CCP will eventually make demands on oil reserves, airports, sea ports and other sovereign assets. Some of the terms are onerous. Once the defaults are official, it'll be all over for 100s of millions.
    Sounds exactly like the IMF and World Bank.
    I agree. The CCP has joined in the race to dominant others after railing against The West™ and the IMF. 
  • Reply 26 of 55
    I would never write propaganda, seek to offend, or simplify a problem.  In the 90’s we had export controls and the machines my company created were not allowed to be shipped to several countries for security concerns.  These export controls were eventually lifted to create larger markets and sell into those controlled countries.  Now those markets have super computers faster than our own which may not be that important but it demonstrates that the playfield has been leveled.  But it was at this time that my company opened a chip manufacturing plant in China.  Something I could not believe we would do. The amount of process IP, equipment that had been originally banned for export, and lithographic reticles (the photos of the chip layers) for the complex processor sent to China were tremendous.  Why? Profit and also to avoid tariffs/taxes which depend on how much a chip is manufactured locally.  I am sure
    management felt at that time they had to get into the Chinese market before competitors did.   Unfortunately, we basically gave our advantage away and the same companies are now asking for a government hand out to “rebuild US chip making capability” to compete which is a new low, in my opinion. Now no one could predict that China would roll back its societal plans, know that it would roll back Hong Kong, start building up a military, build military islands, threaten many of their neighbors (and TMSC), etc.   But that is now the reality.  And why?  Ego. It’s always ego, isn’t it.  My point is, companies may start making decisions based on more criteria than where can they make the most profit.   The long term societal consequences are tremendous.  I for one would just like the world to be safe - a small ask.  And yes, it is a complex problem that is now so globally interleaved so that moving out of China would take decades with unknown side effects.  I also don’t think the US is an angel in all this either.  But here we are.  

    I won’t write any more and save it for other sites.   I like Apple and the phones they make coming out of China are well built by good people who are clawing out of poverty.  US should be proud that we helped the Chinese people.   I hope we find solutions but also not lose our computer science and engineering edge.  Mic drop. 

    Just pull all manufacturer out of China.  They will use the money we pay them to build their military and attack us at some point in time.  We are stupid to think otherwise.  All they have to do now is claim ownership of an American company in China and take it and all it’s assets and IP over and we are powerless to do anything.  But the shareholders will cry and ask our average American sons and daughters in the military will be asked to step up and ensure the .1 of 1%-ters keep their share.  We should never have enrich our advisories for profit and we never ever should have exported our superior computer technology around the world giving up our supremacy.  Gloomy picture, I know.  But the world is run by a few greedy families and its all legal and very obfuscated.
    This is bs propaganda! Why would a nation busy producing goods for the world plan to attack in the future? Only a hateful person will use this kind of logic. 
    Just ignore it.  There’s a lot of folks who believe 
    they could solve the world’s problems if only someone would put them in charge.  And messages like this from our friend AppleUfmyl are the solutions offered.  But the world is a bit more complex.   Let them dream of simple solutions.  

    ravnorodomcat52ronn
  • Reply 27 of 55
    ...when I think about human rights, I don’t think about an ROI. When I think about making our products accessible for the people that can’t see or to help a kid with autism, I don’t think about a bloody ROI, and by the same token, I don’t think about helping our environment from an ROI point of view.
    If you only want me to make things, make decisions that have a clear ROI, then you should get out of the stock.

    - Tim Cook, Apple Annual Shareholder Meeting, 2/28/2014
    edited December 2021 GeorgeBMacronn
  • Reply 28 of 55
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Bosa said:
    Bosa said:
    cpsro said:
    Maybe Cook can help India expand its local technology industry?
    Maybe he can help the U.S. in this.
    It will be hard but possible if the business environment such as taxes are made friendlier , but certainly not with current tax you to death  people in charge . 

    Not a political statement but just stating a fact 
    Tax is not as high as you imagine. Otherwise why the US deficit running so high year after year? 
    It hasn’t been high under previous administration. But the build back better spending bill is aiming to change all that , so given that, no way these corporations will look to move things back to USA ,
    You're joking right?

    https://www.propublica.org/article/national-debt-trump
    muthuk_vanalingamronn
  • Reply 29 of 55
    Bosa said:
    cpsro said:
    Maybe Cook can help India expand its local technology industry?
    Maybe he can help the U.S. in this.
    It will be hard but possible if the business environment such as taxes are made friendlier , but certainly not with current tax you to death  people in charge . 

    Not a political statement but just stating a fact 

    "Not political"?  That's been the primary rallying cry of one political party for 25 years.

    Effective U.S. corporate taxes (after loopholes and deductions) have been near zero for decades.  The main impact has been to make the rich richer while our infrastructure was eaten away from lack of investment and became increasingly obsolete and deteriorated.

    You'll need to find a better excuse or political spiel.
    Dogperson
  • Reply 30 of 55

    And Wal-Mart, the biggest merchant in the world with more sales than Apple, and Target, and Ford Motor, and on and on. Just look at the label of your t-shirt. Commerce is part of it. You are too. Being holiest than thou is constant in USA

    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 31 of 55
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Just pull all manufacturer out of China.  They will use the money we pay them to build their military and attack us at some point in time.  We are stupid to think otherwise.  All they have to do now is claim ownership of an American company in China and take it and all it’s assets and IP over and we are powerless to do anything.  But the shareholders will cry and ask our average American sons and daughters in the military will be asked to step up and ensure the .1 of 1%-ters keep their share.  We should never have enrich our advisories for profit and we never ever should have exported our superior computer technology around the world giving up our supremacy.  Gloomy picture, I know.  But the world is run by a few greedy families and its all legal and very obfuscated.

    That's standard bullshit used to stir up protectionism, nationalism and militarism in the U.S.

    Fear and Hate are the currency of demagogues and charlatans -- and the food of fools.
  • Reply 32 of 55
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    flydog said:
    genovelle said:
    Bosa said:
    cpsro said:
    Maybe Cook can help India expand its local technology industry?
    Maybe he can help the U.S. in this.
    It will be hard but possible if the business environment such as taxes are made friendlier , but certainly not with current tax you to death  people in charge . 

    Not a political statement but just stating a fact 


    The issue is that our citizens haven’t made the $3.15 an hour they make to build iPhones in China in over 25 years as it went up up $4.75 in 1996 and then $5.15 in 1997. The last move was to $7.25 in 2009. Think about that. People working jobs that pay minimum wage with poor conditions and no benefits saw their worth increase by $4.10 over 25 years. That’s about a 16 cent raise per year. Trust me inflation was a lot more that 16 cents. 

    You’re clueless.  Minimum wage in 1989 was $3.35, and you’d be lucky to find any fast food restaurant that would pay more. That $3.35 is equivalent to $7.69 in today’s dollars. The average minimum wage is now $12 per hour, and the average pay at a McDonalds is $15.




    Many of those supposedly well paid, full time workers need food stamps and Medicaid (aka "corporate welfare") to survive.
  • Reply 33 of 55
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Just pull all manufacturer out of China.  They will use the money we pay them to build their military and attack us at some point in time.  We are stupid to think otherwise.  All they have to do now is claim ownership of an American company in China and take it and all it’s assets and IP over and we are powerless to do anything.  But the shareholders will cry and ask our average American sons and daughters in the military will be asked to step up and ensure the .1 of 1%-ters keep their share.  We should never have enrich our advisories for profit and we never ever should have exported our superior computer technology around the world giving up our supremacy.  Gloomy picture, I know.  But the world is run by a few greedy families and its all legal and very obfuscated.
    This is bs propaganda! Why would a nation busy producing goods for the world plan to attack in the future? Only a hateful person will use this kind of logic. 
    Apparently someone hasn’t seen chinas military recruitment video… nor paid attention to the news that China developed and successfully tested a middle that can travel the globe and be within 10 miles of target accuracy - something that somehow was done right under the noses of U. S. intelligence. 

    China was capable of annihilating the U.S. 50 years ago.  Wiser heads made peace with them instead of war.  But today, we seem to be cooking up reasons to go to war with them -- which is why they are forced to waste resources expanding their military.   If we choose war, we will be the losers.

    We just borrowed another 3/4 Trillion dollars to spend on our military -- money that could and should have been invested in modernizing our nation, it's healthcare and its industry.  But we ignore that and try to justify the stupidity by spreading fear and hate.

    Likewise, we are using NATO to create a second Cuban missile crisis in Europe -- and we blame Russia when they respond to our aggression.  Hopefully, sense prevails over stupidity.
    edited December 2021
  • Reply 34 of 55
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    I would never write propaganda, seek to offend, or simplify a problem.  In the 90’s we had export controls and the machines my company created were not allowed to be shipped to several countries for security concerns.  These export controls were eventually lifted to create larger markets and sell into those controlled countries.  Now those markets have super computers faster than our own which may not be that important but it demonstrates that the playfield has been leveled.  But it was at this time that my company opened a chip manufacturing plant in China.  Something I could not believe we would do. The amount of process IP, equipment that had been originally banned for export, and lithographic reticles (the photos of the chip layers) for the complex processor sent to China were tremendous.  Why? Profit and also to avoid tariffs/taxes which depend on how much a chip is manufactured locally.  I am sure
    management felt at that time they had to get into the Chinese market before competitors did.   Unfortunately, we basically gave our advantage away and the same companies are now asking for a government hand out to “rebuild US chip making capability” to compete which is a new low, in my opinion. Now no one could predict that China would roll back its societal plans, know that it would roll back Hong Kong, start building up a military, build military islands, threaten many of their neighbors (and TMSC), etc.   But that is now the reality.  And why?  Ego. It’s always ego, isn’t it.  My point is, companies may start making decisions based on more criteria than where can they make the most profit.   The long term societal consequences are tremendous.  I for one would just like the world to be safe - a small ask.  And yes, it is a complex problem that is now so globally interleaved so that moving out of China would take decades with unknown side effects.  I also don’t think the US is an angel in all this either.  But here we are.  

    I won’t write any more and save it for other sites.   I like Apple and the phones they make coming out of China are well built by good people who are clawing out of poverty.  US should be proud that we helped the Chinese people.   I hope we find solutions but also not lose our computer science and engineering edge.  Mic drop. 

    Just pull all manufacturer out of China.  They will use the money we pay them to build their military and attack us at some point in time.  We are stupid to think otherwise.  All they have to do now is claim ownership of an American company in China and take it and all it’s assets and IP over and we are powerless to do anything.  But the shareholders will cry and ask our average American sons and daughters in the military will be asked to step up and ensure the .1 of 1%-ters keep their share.  We should never have enrich our advisories for profit and we never ever should have exported our superior computer technology around the world giving up our supremacy.  Gloomy picture, I know.  But the world is run by a few greedy families and its all legal and very obfuscated.
    This is bs propaganda! Why would a nation busy producing goods for the world plan to attack in the future? Only a hateful person will use this kind of logic. 
    Just ignore it.  There’s a lot of folks who believe 
    they could solve the world’s problems if only someone would put them in charge.  And messages like this from our friend AppleUfmyl are the solutions offered.  But the world is a bit more complex.   Let them dream of simple solutions.  


    It is the demagogues selling fear and hate who provide the simple, but misguided "good guy vs bad guy" solutions.
  • Reply 35 of 55
    flydog said:
    genovelle said:
    Bosa said:
    cpsro said:
    Maybe Cook can help India expand its local technology industry?
    Maybe he can help the U.S. in this.
    It will be hard but possible if the business environment such as taxes are made friendlier , but certainly not with current tax you to death  people in charge . 

    Not a political statement but just stating a fact 


    The issue is that our citizens haven’t made the $3.15 an hour they make to build iPhones in China in over 25 years as it went up up $4.75 in 1996 and then $5.15 in 1997. The last move was to $7.25 in 2009. Think about that. People working jobs that pay minimum wage with poor conditions and no benefits saw their worth increase by $4.10 over 25 years. That’s about a 16 cent raise per year. Trust me inflation was a lot more that 16 cents. 

    You’re clueless.  Minimum wage in 1989 was $3.35, and you’d be lucky to find any fast food restaurant that would pay more. That $3.35 is equivalent to $7.69 in today’s dollars. The average minimum wage is now $12 per hour, and the average pay at a McDonalds is $15.
    The average HOURLY WAGE for ALL WORKERS, not minimum wage workers, in the United States is $11.19. 
  • Reply 36 of 55
    carnegiecarnegie Posts: 1,007member
    flydog said:
    genovelle said:
    Bosa said:
    cpsro said:
    Maybe Cook can help India expand its local technology industry?
    Maybe he can help the U.S. in this.
    It will be hard but possible if the business environment such as taxes are made friendlier , but certainly not with current tax you to death  people in charge . 

    Not a political statement but just stating a fact 


    The issue is that our citizens haven’t made the $3.15 an hour they make to build iPhones in China in over 25 years as it went up up $4.75 in 1996 and then $5.15 in 1997. The last move was to $7.25 in 2009. Think about that. People working jobs that pay minimum wage with poor conditions and no benefits saw their worth increase by $4.10 over 25 years. That’s about a 16 cent raise per year. Trust me inflation was a lot more that 16 cents. 

    You’re clueless.  Minimum wage in 1989 was $3.35, and you’d be lucky to find any fast food restaurant that would pay more. That $3.35 is equivalent to $7.69 in today’s dollars. The average minimum wage is now $12 per hour, and the average pay at a McDonalds is $15.
    The average HOURLY WAGE for ALL WORKERS, not minimum wage workers, in the United States is $11.19. 
    Maybe in 1982-1984 dollars, but in current dollars it’s more like $31 for private sector employees. That’s around $14 in 1989 dollars, which is what they were comparing with.
  • Reply 37 of 55
    Hope TSMC is watching. 

    Apple is hurting Taiwan based Foxconn tremendously here. 

    Next, China will start a chip foundry and pressure Apple into shifting their processors there. Short of military terrorism and attempted takeover against Taiwan, China will use strong arm market tactics. Actually, thanks to Apples compliance, they already are. 

    TSMC should consider leaning more into the Intel partnership and others. That will hedge against catastrophe should Apple pull another fast one. 
    edited December 2021 cat52
  • Reply 38 of 55
    corp1 said:
    ...when I think about human rights, I don’t think about an ROI. When I think about making our products accessible for the people that can’t see or to help a kid with autism, I don’t think about a bloody ROI, and by the same token, I don’t think about helping our environment from an ROI point of view.
    If you only want me to make things, make decisions that have a clear ROI, then you should get out of the stock.

    - Tim Cook, Apple Annual Shareholder Meeting, 2/28/2014
    Direct contradiction to helping China and it’s version of human rights get bigger. 
    cat52
  • Reply 39 of 55
    I would never write propaganda, seek to offend, or simplify a problem.  In the 90’s we had export controls and the machines my company created were not allowed to be shipped to several countries for security concerns.  These export controls were eventually lifted to create larger markets and sell into those controlled countries.  Now those markets have super computers faster than our own which may not be that important but it demonstrates that the playfield has been leveled.  But it was at this time that my company opened a chip manufacturing plant in China.  Something I could not believe we would do. The amount of process IP, equipment that had been originally banned for export, and lithographic reticles (the photos of the chip layers) for the complex processor sent to China were tremendous.  Why? Profit and also to avoid tariffs/taxes which depend on how much a chip is manufactured locally.  I am sure
    management felt at that time they had to get into the Chinese market before competitors did.   Unfortunately, we basically gave our advantage away and the same companies are now asking for a government hand out to “rebuild US chip making capability” to compete which is a new low, in my opinion. Now no one could predict that China would roll back its societal plans, know that it would roll back Hong Kong, start building up a military, build military islands, threaten many of their neighbors (and TMSC), etc.   But that is now the reality.  And why?  Ego. It’s always ego, isn’t it.  My point is, companies may start making decisions based on more criteria than where can they make the most profit.   The long term societal consequences are tremendous.  I for one would just like the world to be safe - a small ask.  And yes, it is a complex problem that is now so globally interleaved so that moving out of China would take decades with unknown side effects.  I also don’t think the US is an angel in all this either.  But here we are.  

    I won’t write any more and save it for other sites.   I like Apple and the phones they make coming out of China are well built by good people who are clawing out of poverty.  US should be proud that we helped the Chinese people.   I hope we find solutions but also not lose our computer science and engineering edge.  Mic drop. 

    Just pull all manufacturer out of China.  They will use the money we pay them to build their military and attack us at some point in time.  We are stupid to think otherwise.  All they have to do now is claim ownership of an American company in China and take it and all it’s assets and IP over and we are powerless to do anything.  But the shareholders will cry and ask our average American sons and daughters in the military will be asked to step up and ensure the .1 of 1%-ters keep their share.  We should never have enrich our advisories for profit and we never ever should have exported our superior computer technology around the world giving up our supremacy.  Gloomy picture, I know.  But the world is run by a few greedy families and its all legal and very obfuscated.
    This is bs propaganda! Why would a nation busy producing goods for the world plan to attack in the future? Only a hateful person will use this kind of logic. 
    Just ignore it.  There’s a lot of folks who believe 
    they could solve the world’s problems if only someone would put them in charge.  And messages like this from our friend AppleUfmyl are the solutions offered.  But the world is a bit more complex.   Let them dream of simple solutions.  


    It is the demagogues selling fear and hate who provide the simple, but misguided "good guy vs bad guy" solutions.
    Except there is actual evil in the world. Hitler anyone?, Stalin? Hussein? It’s simple, but accurate. And based on the Chinese governments history, it qualifies. 

    It shouldn’t take full on genocide to qualify as evil. But then again, the Uyghurs have something to say about that. 

    Evil is evil. Let’s stop pretending it’s ok just because a company whose products we enjoy is in bed with it. 
    AppleUfmyItmaycat52Dogpersonronn
  • Reply 40 of 55
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Hope TSMC is watching. 

    Apple is hurting Taiwan based Foxconn tremendously here. 

    Next, China will start a chip foundry and pressure Apple into shifting their processors there. Short of military terrorism and attempted takeover against Taiwan, China will use strong arm market tactics. Actually, thanks to Apples compliance, they already are. 

    TSMC should consider leaning more into the Intel partnership and others. That will hedge against catastrophe should Apple pull another fast one. 

    China already has chip factories.  But they're growing them at record rates to defend themselves against foolish, counter-productive American sanctions.

    As for Taiwan, they don't have to take it.  It's already theirs.  it's been theirs.  But yeh, they'll do what they need to do to keep it from splitting off -- just as the U.S. did when some of our territories tried the same.
    9secondkox2
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