Apple's diversity efforts are 'selfish & practical' says head of developer relations

Posted:
in General Discussion
Apple's head of developer relations, Susan Prescott, says the company continues to focus on inclusion and diversity and promises new features at WWDC 2023.

Apple continues efforts on diversity and inclusion
Apple continues efforts on diversity and inclusion


Speaking at a recent event at Apple's new offices in Battersea, London, Prescott talked to an audience of female founders who went through the company's App Store Foundations program. Launched in 2022, the program is meant to support female developers.

Prescott explained that the company's dedication to inclusivity and diversity is motivated by a "selfish and practical" perspective. She believes that to create the best products for all consumers, they must be developed by a diverse team of individuals, according to a report from The Independent.

She continued by saying that increasing the participation of "historically underrepresented groups, including women, is super important to us." And although the App Store Foundations program was for women developers, Prescott said it and other projects were meant to increase diversity and inclusion in the App Store overall.

According to the founders who spoke with Prescott during the event, the technology industry still presents obstacles that make it challenging for women founders to succeed. For example, they highlighted the difficulties associated with obtaining funding from venture capital firms, which they found typically have a bias towards men.

Although other speakers at the event acknowledged the obstacles faced by women in the technology industry, they expressed optimism about the future. For example, Jo Goodall, the co-founder of the health app Luna for teens, noted that her interactions with young people had revealed a growing trend of young women showing interest in pursuing careers in technology.

"I'm actually sort of quietly confident a positive for the future that actually it will be normal for girls to go into tech," she said during the event.

Apple has other initiatives to promote diversity as well. For example, it announced on April 24 the third year of the Impact Accelerator program. It aims to help Black, Indigenous, and Hispanic/Latino entrepreneurs in green industries.

Prescott's remarks were made in anticipation of Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference, scheduled for June, where the company will unveil software updates for all of its products. Prescott guaranteed that the event will showcase "new features, new capabilities, new methods of engaging with Apple, and new approaches to obtaining answers."

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 49
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,788member
    JP234 said:
    enacting policies of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion will benefit Apple Inc. in the long term through hiring and promotion based solely on merit, not race, class or religion.
    Enacting policies of forced inclusion and diversity is the exact opposite of hiring solely on merit, and therefore will not benefit Apple whatsoever. It forces recruiters to discriminate against highly capable white male applicants to reach some arbitrary diversity target. If these targets were representative of the workforce it would be a noble objective, but they are not. To be anything but representative of the workforce is discriminatory, but apparently discriminating against white males is fine. 

    Women are underrepresented within Apple relative to the population, but not the workforce. There are simply very few female engineers in the workforce. Generally, the number of women who enjoy engineering is tiny compared to men. Arbitrary targets wont fix that, it needs to start in schools. 

    In a company like Apple there is very rightly very little discrimination against underrepresented groups. Asian men are very much over represented for example - because they make brilliant engineers, but no one is complaining about that. 
    cornchipmobirdTheObannonFileemig647ratsdocno42
  • Reply 2 of 49
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    JP234 said:
    "Apple's diversity efforts are 'selfish & practical' says head of developer relations…"

    On the face of it, sounds like something you'd hear on right-wing talk shows. Poor choice of words, when you read the article and realize that enacting policies of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion will benefit Apple Inc. in the long term through hiring and promotion based solely on merit, not race, class or religion. And that's practical, enlightened benchmark for sustainable growth.

    History trivia: Enlightened self-interest was a concept that Alexis de Tocqueville discussed in his work Democracy in America, back in 1835 and 1840. The notion he held was that Americans voluntarily join together in associations to further the interests of the group and, thereby, to serve their own interests. Since the SCOTUS "Citizens United" ruling in 2010 that corporations are people, Apple's efforts are of benefit to humanity as well as the corporation! And since the ruling also concluded that money is free speech, Apple has the biggest megaphone (and Disney should be allowed to disagree without fear of retaliation from an opportunistic neofascist with big ambitions).
    Explain to me the difference between Fascism and Communism/Socialism as they are actually practiced in the world, not how they differ on some academic white paper. You say Disney should be allowed to disagree but does not the left do exactly the same thing when they shout down a speaker whose ideology is not their cup of tea. Or label people who disagree with them as homophobes, xenophobes, transphobic, bigoted, misogynists, and any other slur they can apply to shut down speech.

    Bottom line for me is that labeling someone a fascist is getting old and useless because of the history it conjures up, no different than  labeling someone as a Naziif you don;t like what they are saying. To me the right and left of are of the same ilk, both seeking to control the individual’s thoughts, behavior, speech, to become slaves to their respective ideologies. 

    So bottom line, you have no business calling De Santis a fascist when your own ideology does the same damn thing to individual ideals they don’t like. 

    edited April 2023 elijahgwilliamlondonTheObannonFileJMStearnsX2grandact73docno42
  • Reply 3 of 49
    JP234 said:
    "Apple's diversity efforts are 'selfish & practical' says head of developer relations…"

    On the face of it, sounds like something you'd hear on right-wing talk shows. Poor choice of words, when you read the article and realize that enacting policies of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion will benefit Apple Inc. in the long term through hiring and promotion based solely on merit, not race, class or religion. And that's practical, enlightened benchmark for sustainable growth.

    History trivia: Enlightened self-interest was a concept that Alexis de Tocqueville discussed in his work Democracy in America, back in 1835 and 1840. The notion he held was that Americans voluntarily join together in associations to further the interests of the group and, thereby, to serve their own interests. Since the SCOTUS "Citizens United" ruling in 2010 that corporations are people, Apple's efforts are of benefit to humanity as well as the corporation! And since the ruling also concluded that money is free speech, Apple has the biggest megaphone (and Disney should be allowed to disagree without fear of retaliation from an opportunistic neofascist with big ambitions).
    DeSantis just comes off to me as someone who enjoys being cruel.
    ronnlkruppsconosciutoradarthekatdewmeblastdoor
  • Reply 4 of 49
    toddzrxtoddzrx Posts: 254member
    DeSantis just comes off to me as someone who enjoys being cruel.
    In that case you should probably get better informed before spouting your opinionated feelings. Disney made a choice to get involved in a political issue they had zero business being in. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 
    williamlondonTheObannonFiledocno42Japhey
  • Reply 5 of 49
    ronnronn Posts: 669member
    Any time diversity, equity and inclusion are mentioned get ready for the "Woe Is Me" song by the Aggrieved White "straight" Guys Chorus. Poor li'l souls have to contend with simply occupying the majority of high paying, prestige jobs despite not being the majority of the population. 
    williamlondonsconosciutoradarthekattmayAppleZuludewmeblastdoor
  • Reply 6 of 49
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    ronn said:
    Any time diversity, equity and inclusion are mentioned get ready for the "Woe Is Me" song by the Aggrieved White "straight" Guys Chorus. Poor li'l souls have to contend with simply occupying the majority of high paying, prestige jobs despite not being the majority of the population. 
    Guess what? We aggrieved white straight guys chorus will continue to own and operate this country for the next century at least. All of this inclusion and diversity is just a smoke and mirrors diversion. Want a great example of how we play the game? Her name is Kamala Harris, put there by straight white males as a token of diversity. She’s useless, ignorant, and a great foil for we straight white males to point to. Seeeeee, we embrace diversity! Meanwhile we straight white males control levers of power, the economy, and the future of the country while the likes of you are just along for the ride. We do throw you a bone once in a while just to keep you thinking you’re changing things. When AI takes all your jobs away we’ll still be in charge.

    So how do you like them Apples? 
    williamlondonTheObannonFiledocno42
  • Reply 7 of 49
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,788member
    JP234 said:
    elijahg said:
    JP234 said:
    enacting policies of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion will benefit Apple Inc. in the long term through hiring and promotion based solely on merit, not race, class or religion.
    Enacting policies of forced inclusion and diversity is the exact opposite of hiring solely on merit, and therefore will not benefit Apple whatsoever. It forces recruiters to discriminate against highly capable white male applicants to reach some arbitrary diversity target. If these targets were representative of the workforce it would be a noble objective, but they are not. To be anything but representative of the workforce is discriminatory, but apparently discriminating against white males is fine. 

    Women are underrepresented within Apple relative to the population, but not the workforce. There are simply very few female engineers in the workforce. Generally, the number of women who enjoy engineering is tiny compared to men. Arbitrary targets wont fix that, it needs to start in schools. 

    In a company like Apple there is very rightly very little discrimination against underrepresented groups. Asian men are very much over represented for example - because they make brilliant engineers, but no one is complaining about that. 
    Ponder this: what has this brand of racism cost this country? What great discoveries has our country lost because our ancestors relegated people to slavery and servility, or detained American citizens in internment camps or reservations. All because their skin didn't conform to your vision of the ideal? Sadly, we'll never know, will we?
    "My vision of the ideal"? Way to go branding someone racist who quite clearly is not. When did I imply in any way white people are superior? That is utter shit. There is no superior race. Race and gender should be utterly and completely irrelevant when hiring, as I stated, the best person for the job should be hired, hiring based on race is by definition racist. I'm sure there have been discoveries and inventions lost due to racism. That historical racism and discrimination toward minorities and women doesn't mean it is now acceptable to discriminate against white people; to do so is in fact, racist. I quite clearly explained that it is only nondiscriminatory to aim to have an employee ratio that matches the country's workforce. If that is too difficult for you to understand I pity you. Grow up and think for yourself.
    TheObannonFileemig647JMStearnsX2docno42
  • Reply 8 of 49
    “Prescott explained that the company's dedication to inclusivity and diversity is motivated by a "selfish and practical" perspective. She believes that to create the best products for all consumers, they must be developed by a diverse team of individuals, according to a report from The Independent.”

    I don’t agree.  To create the best products for all consumers, they must be developed by a competent team with diverse skills and perspectives.  Why are they so focused on the gender and race of a developer?  How many users actually care about this?  I believe close to zero — instead, they just want something to work as intended and what they expected.  If diversity over quality has been driving decisions at Apple, this could explain the state of software quality at the company.
    TheObannonFileemig647JMStearnsX2docno42
  • Reply 9 of 49
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,388member
    “Prescott explained that the company's dedication to inclusivity and diversity is motivated by a "selfish and practical" perspective. She believes that to create the best products for all consumers, they must be developed by a diverse team of individuals, according to a report from The Independent.”

    I don’t agree.  To create the best products for all consumers, they must be developed by a competent team with diverse skills and perspectives.  Why are they so focused on the gender and race of a developer?  How many users actually care about this?  I believe close to zero — instead, they just want something to work as intended and what they expected.  If diversity over quality has been driving decisions at Apple, this could explain the state of software quality at the company.
    You suggested Apple doesn't attract the best of the best anyway or is in a position it just needs a warm body in a seat?

    I'm sure Apple are still back filling lots of positions every week even with reported the slow down. I'm sure they drawing from a highly talented pool of applicants most beyond the minimum experience needed. Seems to me all they are saying is they'll take on someone of less "traditional" experience if they have other more rounding experience if that helps round the team. Either way they are getting competence but picking the value add above that that will value add. 

    If you go for a job at Apple then don't treat other interests as something people say to sound human.
  • Reply 10 of 49
    toddzrx said:
    DeSantis just comes off to me as someone who enjoys being cruel.
    In that case you should probably get better informed before spouting your opinionated feelings. Disney made a choice to get involved in a political issue they had zero business being in. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 


    Corporations have free speech rights just like you and I. Disney has every right to speak up about legislation. Corporations do this all the time as a matter of fact.

    I’ll bet any amount of money you care to lose that you’d never say the same thing about the NRA.

    Seriously, what a complete loser of a comment. Delete your account.
    edited April 2023 ronnroundaboutnowblastdoor
  • Reply 11 of 49
    lkrupp said:
    JP234 said:
    "Apple's diversity efforts are 'selfish & practical' says head of developer relations…"

    On the face of it, sounds like something you'd hear on right-wing talk shows. Poor choice of words, when you read the article and realize that enacting policies of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion will benefit Apple Inc. in the long term through hiring and promotion based solely on merit, not race, class or religion. And that's practical, enlightened benchmark for sustainable growth.

    History trivia: Enlightened self-interest was a concept that Alexis de Tocqueville discussed in his work Democracy in America, back in 1835 and 1840. The notion he held was that Americans voluntarily join together in associations to further the interests of the group and, thereby, to serve their own interests. Since the SCOTUS "Citizens United" ruling in 2010 that corporations are people, Apple's efforts are of benefit to humanity as well as the corporation! And since the ruling also concluded that money is free speech, Apple has the biggest megaphone (and Disney should be allowed to disagree without fear of retaliation from an opportunistic neofascist with big ambitions).
    Explain to me the difference between Fascism and Communism/Socialism as they are actually practiced in the world, not how they differ on some academic white paper. You say Disney should be allowed to disagree but does not the left do exactly the same thing when they shout down a speaker whose ideology is not their cup of tea. Or label people who disagree with them as homophobes, xenophobes, transphobic, bigoted, misogynists, and any other slur they can apply to shut down speech.

    Bottom line for me is that labeling someone a fascist is getting old and useless because of the history it conjures up, no different than  labeling someone as a Naziif you don;t like what they are saying. To me the right and left of are of the same ilk, both seeking to control the individual’s thoughts, behavior, speech, to become slaves to their respective ideologies. 

    So bottom line, you have no business calling De Santis a fascist when your own ideology does the same damn thing to individual ideals they don’t like. 

    I’m certain there’s no point in attempting to explain the differences between Fascism and Communism to someone who doesn’t even understand that Fascism and Naziism are inextricably linked

    Hitler sought to emulate Mussolini, whose regime predated Hitler’s by 11 years.

    The Italians know a thing or two about the matter; their word for it is “nazifascismo”.

    These are just some very basic facts about the matter. I could put together a reading list for you if you like.
    ronn
  • Reply 12 of 49
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,875moderator
    elijahg said:
    JP234 said:
    enacting policies of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion will benefit Apple Inc. in the long term through hiring and promotion based solely on merit, not race, class or religion.
    Enacting policies of forced inclusion and diversity is the exact opposite of hiring solely on merit, and therefore will not benefit Apple whatsoever. It forces recruiters to discriminate against highly capable white male applicants to reach some arbitrary diversity target. If these targets were representative of the workforce it would be a noble objective, but they are not. To be anything but representative of the workforce is discriminatory, but apparently discriminating against white males is fine. 

    Women are underrepresented within Apple relative to the population, but not the workforce. There are simply very few female engineers in the workforce. Generally, the number of women who enjoy engineering is tiny compared to men. Arbitrary targets wont fix that, it needs to start in schools. 

    In a company like Apple there is very rightly very little discrimination against underrepresented groups. Asian men are very much over represented for example - because they make brilliant engineers, but no one is complaining about that. 
    What you suggest needs to start in schools ignores the fact that school age children are very often influenced by role models they see  in society.  What’s missed by your stance is that it takes a generation to prime the pump for true equality.  It requires someone, in this case Apple, to give opportunities to those who didn’t get the educational opportunities that white males have traditionally enjoyed in disproportionate numbers to other groups, and it requires a recognition that even lesser technically qualified individuals bring a new and needed perspective to the company that can offset their potentially lesser technical qualifications.  In short, it takes future thinking, maybe even a Think Different attitude.

    oh, and… Asian men don’t make “brilliant engineers.”  Asian educational standards and family values turn their sons into those brilliant engineers.  The same forces and opportunities applied to any kids would produce the same.  Apple’s stance, I would argue, is that there’s a potentially brilliant engineer, or designer, etc, in any child from any background if given sufficient opportunity and motivation.  Again, it takes a generation, a generation Apple is willing to put in to prove those assertions.  
    edited April 2023 muthuk_vanalingamAppleZuluronnroundaboutnowdewme
  • Reply 13 of 49
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,875moderator
    lkrupp said:
    JP234 said:
    "Apple's diversity efforts are 'selfish & practical' says head of developer relations…"

    On the face of it, sounds like something you'd hear on right-wing talk shows. Poor choice of words, when you read the article and realize that enacting policies of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion will benefit Apple Inc. in the long term through hiring and promotion based solely on merit, not race, class or religion. And that's practical, enlightened benchmark for sustainable growth.

    History trivia: Enlightened self-interest was a concept that Alexis de Tocqueville discussed in his work Democracy in America, back in 1835 and 1840. The notion he held was that Americans voluntarily join together in associations to further the interests of the group and, thereby, to serve their own interests. Since the SCOTUS "Citizens United" ruling in 2010 that corporations are people, Apple's efforts are of benefit to humanity as well as the corporation! And since the ruling also concluded that money is free speech, Apple has the biggest megaphone (and Disney should be allowed to disagree without fear of retaliation from an opportunistic neofascist with big ambitions).
    Explain to me the difference between Fascism and Communism/Socialism as they are actually practiced in the world, not how they differ on some academic white paper. You say Disney should be allowed to disagree but does not the left do exactly the same thing when they shout down a speaker whose ideology is not their cup of tea. Or label people who disagree with them as homophobes, xenophobes, transphobic, bigoted, misogynists, and any other slur they can apply to shut down speech.

    Bottom line for me is that labeling someone a fascist is getting old and useless because of the history it conjures up, no different than  labeling someone as a Naziif you don;t like what they are saying. To me the right and left of are of the same ilk, both seeking to control the individual’s thoughts, behavior, speech, to become slaves to their respective ideologies. 

    So bottom line, you have no business calling De Santis a fascist when your own ideology does the same damn thing to individual ideals they don’t like. 

    I would argue that calling someone a fascist is appropriate if they are a fascist, and you don’t get to suggest that the word’s definition means something different than what it means.  Same for bigots, transphobes, misogynists, xenophobes, etc.  If a person exhibits the traits associated with a defined term, then it’s fair to call them out as such.  Just honestly own it if you or your favorite politician belongs to one of those groups.  And then we can let the voters decide what they want.  
    ronnroundaboutnow
  • Reply 14 of 49
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,875moderator
    toddzrx said:
    DeSantis just comes off to me as someone who enjoys being cruel.
    In that case you should probably get better informed before spouting your opinionated feelings. Disney made a choice to get involved in a political issue they had zero business being in. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 
    Are you okay?  In the eyes of the law Disney is a person, with all the same rights of speech afforded to you or me.
    ronnroundaboutnowblastdoor
  • Reply 15 of 49
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,875moderator
    lkrupp said:
    ronn said:
    Any time diversity, equity and inclusion are mentioned get ready for the "Woe Is Me" song by the Aggrieved White "straight" Guys Chorus. Poor li'l souls have to contend with simply occupying the majority of high paying, prestige jobs despite not being the majority of the population. 
    Guess what? We aggrieved white straight guys chorus will continue to own and operate this country for the next century at least. All of this inclusion and diversity is just a smoke and mirrors diversion. Want a great example of how we play the game? Her name is Kamala Harris, put there by straight white males as a token of diversity. She’s useless, ignorant, and a great foil for we straight white males to point to. Seeeeee, we embrace diversity! Meanwhile we straight white males control levers of power, the economy, and the future of the country while the likes of you are just along for the ride. We do throw you a bone once in a while just to keep you thinking you’re changing things. When AI takes all your jobs away we’ll still be in charge.

    So how do you like them Apples? 
    Blatant racism is a ban from these forums.
    ronnroundaboutnowchutzpah
  • Reply 16 of 49
    lkrupp said:
    ronn said:
    Any time diversity, equity and inclusion are mentioned get ready for the "Woe Is Me" song by the Aggrieved White "straight" Guys Chorus. Poor li'l souls have to contend with simply occupying the majority of high paying, prestige jobs despite not being the majority of the population. 
    Guess what? We aggrieved white straight guys chorus will continue to own and operate this country for the next century at least. All of this inclusion and diversity is just a smoke and mirrors diversion. Want a great example of how we play the game? Her name is Kamala Harris, put there by straight white males as a token of diversity. She’s useless, ignorant, and a great foil for we straight white males to point to. Seeeeee, we embrace diversity! Meanwhile we straight white males control levers of power, the economy, and the future of the country while the likes of you are just along for the ride. We do throw you a bone once in a while just to keep you thinking you’re changing things. When AI takes all your jobs away we’ll still be in charge.

    So how do you like them Apples? 
    Blatant racism is a ban from these forums.
    You mean “should be.”
    Because he’s been spewing his fascist, racist, white supremacist bile here for years.
    JP234ronnchutzpahdewmeblastdoor
  • Reply 17 of 49
    ratsrats Posts: 21member
    JP234 said:
    "Apple's diversity efforts are 'selfish & practical' says head of developer relations…"

    On the face of it, sounds like something you'd hear on right-wing talk shows. Poor choice of words, when you read the article and realize that enacting policies of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion will benefit Apple Inc. in the long term through hiring and promotion based solely on merit, not race, class or religion. And that's practical, enlightened benchmark for sustainable growth.

    History trivia: Enlightened self-interest was a concept that Alexis de Tocqueville discussed in his work Democracy in America, back in 1835 and 1840. The notion he held was that Americans voluntarily join together in associations to further the interests of the group and, thereby, to serve their own interests. Since the SCOTUS "Citizens United" ruling in 2010 that corporations are people, Apple's efforts are of benefit to humanity as well as the corporation! And since the ruling also concluded that money is free speech, Apple has the biggest megaphone (and Disney should be allowed to disagree without fear of retaliation from an opportunistic neofascist with big ambitions).
    "in the long term through hiring and promotion based solely on merit, not race, class or religion."
    What you typed actually sounds like something you'd hear on right-wing talk shows. 

    Your post highlights one glaring issue, it's not what is said, it's WHO says it that matters.

    It's too bad the world is this way now.
    JP234roundaboutnow
  • Reply 18 of 49
    ratsrats Posts: 21member
    elijahg said:
    JP234 said:
    enacting policies of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion will benefit Apple Inc. in the long term through hiring and promotion based solely on merit, not race, class or religion.
    Enacting policies of forced inclusion and diversity is the exact opposite of hiring solely on merit, and therefore will not benefit Apple whatsoever. It forces recruiters to discriminate against highly capable white male applicants to reach some arbitrary diversity target. If these targets were representative of the workforce it would be a noble objective, but they are not. To be anything but representative of the workforce is discriminatory, but apparently discriminating against white males is fine. 

    Women are underrepresented within Apple relative to the population, but not the workforce. There are simply very few female engineers in the workforce. Generally, the number of women who enjoy engineering is tiny compared to men. Arbitrary targets wont fix that, it needs to start in schools. 

    In a company like Apple there is very rightly very little discrimination against underrepresented groups. Asian men are very much over represented for example - because they make brilliant engineers, but no one is complaining about that. 
    What you suggest needs to start in schools ignores the fact that school age children are very often influenced by role models they see  in society.  What’s missed by your stance is that it takes a generation to prime the pump for true equality.  It requires someone, in this case Apple, to give opportunities to those who didn’t get the educational opportunities that white males have traditionally enjoyed in disproportionate numbers to other groups, and it requires a recognition that even lesser technically qualified individuals bring a new and needed perspective to the company that can offset their potentially lesser technical qualifications.  In short, it takes future thinking, maybe even a Think Different attitude.

    oh, and… Asian men don’t make “brilliant engineers.”  Asian educational standards and family values turn their sons into those brilliant engineers.  The same forces and opportunities applied to any kids would produce the same.  Apple’s stance, I would argue, is that there’s a potentially brilliant engineer, or designer, etc, in any child from any background if given sufficient opportunity and motivation.  Again, it takes a generation, a generation Apple is willing to put in to prove those assertions.  
    Using your logic, then wouldn't it make the most sense to put massive efforts into the root causes such as Educational Standards and Family Values?  Over the last 20 years we've seen the exact opposite in reducing the "stress" of academic standards imposed on our kids because they're "racist".  So How?
  • Reply 19 of 49
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,875moderator
    lkrupp said:
    ronn said:
    Any time diversity, equity and inclusion are mentioned get ready for the "Woe Is Me" song by the Aggrieved White "straight" Guys Chorus. Poor li'l souls have to contend with simply occupying the majority of high paying, prestige jobs despite not being the majority of the population. 
    Guess what? We aggrieved white straight guys chorus will continue to own and operate this country for the next century at least. All of this inclusion and diversity is just a smoke and mirrors diversion. Want a great example of how we play the game? Her name is Kamala Harris, put there by straight white males as a token of diversity. She’s useless, ignorant, and a great foil for we straight white males to point to. Seeeeee, we embrace diversity! Meanwhile we straight white males control levers of power, the economy, and the future of the country while the likes of you are just along for the ride. We do throw you a bone once in a while just to keep you thinking you’re changing things. When AI takes all your jobs away we’ll still be in charge.

    So how do you like them Apples? 
    Blatant racism is a ban from these forums.
    You mean “should be.”
    Because he’s been spewing his fascist, racist, white supremacist bile here for years.
    is.
    edited April 2023 gatorguychutzpah
  • Reply 20 of 49
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,875moderator
    rats said:
    elijahg said:
    JP234 said:
    enacting policies of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion will benefit Apple Inc. in the long term through hiring and promotion based solely on merit, not race, class or religion.
    Enacting policies of forced inclusion and diversity is the exact opposite of hiring solely on merit, and therefore will not benefit Apple whatsoever. It forces recruiters to discriminate against highly capable white male applicants to reach some arbitrary diversity target. If these targets were representative of the workforce it would be a noble objective, but they are not. To be anything but representative of the workforce is discriminatory, but apparently discriminating against white males is fine. 

    Women are underrepresented within Apple relative to the population, but not the workforce. There are simply very few female engineers in the workforce. Generally, the number of women who enjoy engineering is tiny compared to men. Arbitrary targets wont fix that, it needs to start in schools. 

    In a company like Apple there is very rightly very little discrimination against underrepresented groups. Asian men are very much over represented for example - because they make brilliant engineers, but no one is complaining about that. 
    What you suggest needs to start in schools ignores the fact that school age children are very often influenced by role models they see  in society.  What’s missed by your stance is that it takes a generation to prime the pump for true equality.  It requires someone, in this case Apple, to give opportunities to those who didn’t get the educational opportunities that white males have traditionally enjoyed in disproportionate numbers to other groups, and it requires a recognition that even lesser technically qualified individuals bring a new and needed perspective to the company that can offset their potentially lesser technical qualifications.  In short, it takes future thinking, maybe even a Think Different attitude.

    oh, and… Asian men don’t make “brilliant engineers.”  Asian educational standards and family values turn their sons into those brilliant engineers.  The same forces and opportunities applied to any kids would produce the same.  Apple’s stance, I would argue, is that there’s a potentially brilliant engineer, or designer, etc, in any child from any background if given sufficient opportunity and motivation.  Again, it takes a generation, a generation Apple is willing to put in to prove those assertions.  
    Using your logic, then wouldn't it make the most sense to put massive efforts into the root causes such as Educational Standards and Family Values?  Over the last 20 years we've seen the exact opposite in reducing the "stress" of academic standards imposed on our kids because they're "racist".  So How?
    Apple can play a role by creating some of those models today’s children can then look up to an emulate., apple also can play a role in education with its Swift educational efforts, by pushing technology into classrooms, and by bring vocal about all these efforts.  Apple can’t do it all, but it can contribute in areas adjacent to its business.  
    dewme
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