Latest Intel and AMD vulnerabilities a gentle reminder to switch to Apple silicon

Posted:
in General Discussion

A pair of vulnerabilities have been discovered impacting Intel and AMD CPUs, and they both affect generations of processors for those who haven't updated their systems yet.

Intel logo
Intel logo



The new threats are called "Downfall" and "Inception," and both rely on speculative execution in a similar way as the Meltdown and Spectre bugs, respectively. They are both described as being of "medium" severity, with Downfall impacting Intel chips and Inception targeting AMD processors.

Intel and AMD have both issued OS-level microcode software updates as of now, with both companies aiming to address both vulnerabilities. As reported by Ars Technica, the two companies have also confirmed that they have not identified any exploits that exist for either vulnerability.

However, it's important that manufacturers issue their own updates to address the issues once Intel and AMD make them available. Both Downfall and Inception are risks to consumer products, server CPUs, and workstations, any of which are equipped with years-old Intel or AMD processors.

Downfall



By all accounts, Downfall is the bigger of the two vulnerabilities. It's known as "CVE-2022-40982," and it's outlined by Google security researcher Daniel Moghimi. He describes it as such:

"The vulnerability is caused by memory optimization features in Intel processors that unintentionally reveal internal hardware registers to software. This allows untrusted software to access data stored by other programs, which should not normally be accessible. I discovered that the Gather instruction, meant to speed up accessing scattered data in memory, leaks the content of the internal vector register file during speculative execution. To exploit this vulnerability, I introduced Gather Data Sampling (GDS) and Gather Value Injection (GVI) techniques. You can read the paper I wrote about this for more detail."



Moghimi says Downfall is a "successor" to the Meltdown vulnerability, as they both rely on speculative execution to harm affected systems.

Intel says all processors based on Skylake, Kaby Lake, Whiskey Lake, Ice Lake, Comet Lake, Coffee Lake, Rocket Lake, and Tiger Lake are all impacted by Downfall, along with other processor generations as well. That means most chips produced from 2015 and newer are affected.

Intel haunted by Spectre
Intel haunted by Spectre



However, Intel's newest 12th- and 13th-generation chips based on Alder Lake and Raptor Lake are not affected. Meanwhile, Celeron, Pentium, and Apollo low-end CPUs are not affected, either.

Inception



Inception is also known as "CVE-2023-20569," and it's a descendent of the Spectre bug, and it's described as "Information exposure through microarchitectural state after transient execution in certain vector execution units for some Intel(R) Processors may allow an authenticated user to potentially enable information disclosure via local access."

Security researchers at ETH Zrich's COSMEC group point out that this vulnerability can leak arbitrary data on a range of AMD processors, including Ryzen, EPYC, and Threadripper. The group has also published a proof-of-concept video showing off the vulnerability.

The good news is these vulnerabilities have been addressed by Intel and AMD, and neither appears to be as dangerous as the vulnerabilities they are descended from, Meltdown and Specter.

Might be a good time to upgrade to Apple silicon



Still, if nothing else, these widespread vulnerabilities are a gentle reminder that Apple has moved away from Intel in its choice of processors. The company is now all-in with Apple Silicon, meaning it doesn't need to worry about Intel or AMD vulnerabilities like these.

Apple silicon
Apple silicon



It's worth noting that there are still some vulnerabilities that can pop up, even for Apple silicon. The "PacMan" flaw was an echo of Spectre and Meltdown in 2022, for instance, albeit one that did not seriously harm any computers out in the real world.

Read on AppleInsider

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 17
    lam92103lam92103 Posts: 132member
    Thanks but no thanks. Gonna stick to x86
    iBiCCCITGUYINSDwilliamlondon
  • Reply 2 of 17
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 2,251member
    lam92103 said:
    Thanks but no thanks. Gonna stick to x86

    Now tell us why.

    Alex1Nravnorodomwilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 17
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 2,251member
    iBiCCC said:
    lam92103 said:
    Thanks but no thanks. Gonna stick to x86
    #metoo.  Honestly who wouldn't.  It makes zero sense.  All microprocessor will be the same.  MacOS is built on x86.  Intel is a serious company. Rosetta runs x86.  It was built on x86 and the M-Chips are x86.  Fun Fact.

    What? That makes no sense. I think you're missing a few details.

    Before Apple adopted Intel processors, Mac OS (or OS X) ran on Motorola PowerPC chips.

    Are you claiming that ARM chips (of which M-series chips are built) are actually built using Intel x86 architecture? Not true at all. ARM and x86 are entirely separate architectures. If your claim had any truth to it, Microsoft would not have had so much trouble rolling out their ARM-based Windows.

    Rosetta translates executable code of applications, not the OS, that haven't yet been built for Apple silicon. That's the only role that Rosetta plays. macOS itself is not running ON Rosetta.
    edited August 2023 Alex1Nmichelb76danoxFileMakerFellerwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 4 of 17
    iBiCCC said:
    lam92103 said:
    Thanks but no thanks. Gonna stick to x86
    #metoo.  Honestly who wouldn't.  It makes zero sense.  All microprocessor will be the same.  MacOS is built on x86.  Intel is a serious company. Rosetta runs x86.  It was built on x86 and the M-Chips are x86.  Fun Fact.
    And my car runs on x86 because it has Windows.  :D
    Alex1NhydrogenblastdoorwilliamlondonFileMakerFellerwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 5 of 17
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,401member
    It’s true that Apple doesn’t have to worry about x86 vulnerabilities. But it’s only a matter of time until Apple Silicon vulnerabilities are discovered. 
    Fidonet127ITGUYINSDdanoxwilliamlondonbala1234mobirdappleinsideruserFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 6 of 17
    IreneWIreneW Posts: 303member
    iBiCCC said:
    iBiCCC said:
    lam92103 said:
    Thanks but no thanks. Gonna stick to x86
    #metoo.  Honestly who wouldn't.  It makes zero sense.  All microprocessor will be the same.  MacOS is built on x86.  Intel is a serious company. Rosetta runs x86.  It was built on x86 and the M-Chips are x86.  Fun Fact.

    What? That makes no sense. I think you're missing a few details.

    Before Apple adopted Intel processors, Mac OS (or OS X) ran on Motorola PowerPC chips.

    Are you claiming that ARM chips (of which M-series chips are built) are actually built using Intel x86 architecture? Not true at all. ARM and x86 are entirely separate architectures. If your claim had any truth to it, Microsoft would not have had so much trouble rolling out their ARM-based Windows.

    Rosetta translates executable code of applications, not the OS, that haven't yet been built for Apple silicon. That's the only role that Rosetta plays. macOS itself is not running ON Rosetta.
    x86 are. MacOS is running on Objective-C.  The Robot language is still x86.  The PowerPC ships with Apple and Motorola are long gone, great SISC chips.  M-Series Chips are still C - C++ - Objective-C- Swift.  Apple does not allow NXU kernel runs.  Hence Rosetta.  You can test, but it won't pass Apple.
    What the #@$ are you talking about?
    muthuk_vanalingamwilliamlondonwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 7 of 17
    iBiCCC said:


    Are you claiming that ARM chips (of which M-series chips are built) are actually built using Intel x86 architecture? Not true at all. ARM and x86 are entirely separate architectures. If your claim had any truth to it, Microsoft would not have had so much trouble rolling out their ARM-based Windows.

    Rosetta translates executable code of applications, not the OS, that haven't yet been built for Apple silicon. That's the only role that Rosetta plays. macOS itself is not running ON Rosetta.
    x86 are. MacOS is running on Objective-C.  The Robot language is still x86.  The PowerPC ships with Apple and Motorola are long gone, great SISC chips.  M-Series Chips are still C - C++ - Objective-C- Swift.  Apple does not allow NXU kernel runs.  Hence Rosetta.  You can test, but it won't pass Apple.
    Dunno what you are taking, but maybe reduce it?
    muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 8 of 17
    The thing is, there's nothing magic about Apple's processors, that somehow prevent them from having these kind of vulnerabilities.  They just are unlikely to have these specific ones.  Apple's processors are in widespread enough use, with lots of high-value targets, where people will find these kind of vulnerabilities in Apple silicon.

    If anything, Apple will (based on history) be much much slower at fixing/patching and reporting these vulnerabilities, when Apple becomes aware of them.
    bala1234FileMakerFeller
  • Reply 9 of 17
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,334member
    iBiCCC said:
    iBiCCC said:
    lam92103 said:
    Thanks but no thanks. Gonna stick to x86
    #metoo.  Honestly who wouldn't.  It makes zero sense.  All microprocessor will be the same.  MacOS is built on x86.  Intel is a serious company. Rosetta runs x86.  It was built on x86 and the M-Chips are x86.  Fun Fact.

    What? That makes no sense. I think you're missing a few details.

    Before Apple adopted Intel processors, Mac OS (or OS X) ran on Motorola PowerPC chips.

    Are you claiming that ARM chips (of which M-series chips are built) are actually built using Intel x86 architecture? Not true at all. ARM and x86 are entirely separate architectures. If your claim had any truth to it, Microsoft would not have had so much trouble rolling out their ARM-based Windows.

    Rosetta translates executable code of applications, not the OS, that haven't yet been built for Apple silicon. That's the only role that Rosetta plays. macOS itself is not running ON Rosetta.
    x86 are. MacOS is running on Objective-C.  The Robot language is still x86.  The PowerPC ships with Apple and Motorola are long gone, great SISC chips.  M-Series Chips are still C - C++ - Objective-C- Swift.  Apple does not allow NXU kernel runs.  Hence Rosetta.  You can test, but it won't pass Apple.
    Is this performance art?
    williamlondonappleinsideruserFileMakerFellerbandits1watto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 10 of 17
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,401member
    The thing is, there's nothing magic about Apple's processors, that somehow prevent them from having these kind of vulnerabilities.  They just are unlikely to have these specific ones.  Apple's processors are in widespread enough use, with lots of high-value targets, where people will find these kind of vulnerabilities in Apple silicon.

    If anything, Apple will (based on history) be much much slower at fixing/patching and reporting these vulnerabilities, when Apple becomes aware of them.
    Someone outside of Apple will undoubtedly discover vulnerabilities in Apple’s processors at some point. Anything as complex as the M1 is bound to have anomalies just do its shear complexity. Apple has the advantage of going into their design process from day one with security as a design imperative. Some of Intel’s issues have been due to legacy designs that have been carried forward/inherited from an era when security was less of a concern than, for example, performance and efficiency. I suppose the same can be said of the design components that Apple gets from ARM. Hopefully the wider use of ARM has subjected it to greater scrutiny because more eyes and test cycles are on it.

    I don’t think iBiCCC understands the difference between a programming language and a compiler.
    muthuk_vanalingamravnorodomFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 17
    IreneW said:
    iBiCCC said:
    iBiCCC said:
    lam92103 said:
    Thanks but no thanks. Gonna stick to x86
    #metoo.  Honestly who wouldn't.  It makes zero sense.  All microprocessor will be the same.  MacOS is built on x86.  Intel is a serious company. Rosetta runs x86.  It was built on x86 and the M-Chips are x86.  Fun Fact.

    What? That makes no sense. I think you're missing a few details.

    Before Apple adopted Intel processors, Mac OS (or OS X) ran on Motorola PowerPC chips.

    Are you claiming that ARM chips (of which M-series chips are built) are actually built using Intel x86 architecture? Not true at all. ARM and x86 are entirely separate architectures. If your claim had any truth to it, Microsoft would not have had so much trouble rolling out their ARM-based Windows.

    Rosetta translates executable code of applications, not the OS, that haven't yet been built for Apple silicon. That's the only role that Rosetta plays. macOS itself is not running ON Rosetta.
    x86 are. MacOS is running on Objective-C.  The Robot language is still x86.  The PowerPC ships with Apple and Motorola are long gone, great SISC chips.  M-Series Chips are still C - C++ - Objective-C- Swift.  Apple does not allow NXU kernel runs.  Hence Rosetta.  You can test, but it won't pass Apple.
    What the #@$ are you talking about?
    iBiCCC said:
    iBiCCC said:
    lam92103 said:
    Thanks but no thanks. Gonna stick to x86
    #metoo.  Honestly who wouldn't.  It makes zero sense.  All microprocessor will be the same.  MacOS is built on x86.  Intel is a serious company. Rosetta runs x86.  It was built on x86 and the M-Chips are x86.  Fun Fact.

    What? That makes no sense. I think you're missing a few details.

    Before Apple adopted Intel processors, Mac OS (or OS X) ran on Motorola PowerPC chips.

    Are you claiming that ARM chips (of which M-series chips are built) are actually built using Intel x86 architecture? Not true at all. ARM and x86 are entirely separate architectures. If your claim had any truth to it, Microsoft would not have had so much trouble rolling out their ARM-based Windows.

    Rosetta translates executable code of applications, not the OS, that haven't yet been built for Apple silicon. That's the only role that Rosetta plays. macOS itself is not running ON Rosetta.
    x86 are. MacOS is running on Objective-C.  The Robot language is still x86.  The PowerPC ships with Apple and Motorola are long gone, great SISC chips.  M-Series Chips are still C - C++ - Objective-C- Swift.  Apple does not allow NXU kernel runs.  Hence Rosetta.  You can test, but it won't pass Apple.
    Rosetta is a translator that converts the x86 instruction set to run on ARM and the language used is irrelevant.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 17
    iBiCCC said:
    iBiCCC said:
    lam92103 said:
    Thanks but no thanks. Gonna stick to x86
    #metoo.  Honestly who wouldn't.  It makes zero sense.  All microprocessor will be the same.  MacOS is built on x86.  Intel is a serious company. Rosetta runs x86.  It was built on x86 and the M-Chips are x86.  Fun Fact.

    What? That makes no sense. I think you're missing a few details.

    Before Apple adopted Intel processors, Mac OS (or OS X) ran on Motorola PowerPC chips.

    Are you claiming that ARM chips (of which M-series chips are built) are actually built using Intel x86 architecture? Not true at all. ARM and x86 are entirely separate architectures. If your claim had any truth to it, Microsoft would not have had so much trouble rolling out their ARM-based Windows.

    Rosetta translates executable code of applications, not the OS, that haven't yet been built for Apple silicon. That's the only role that Rosetta plays. macOS itself is not running ON Rosetta.
    x86 are. MacOS is running on Objective-C.  The Robot language is still x86.  The PowerPC ships with Apple and Motorola are long gone, great SISC chips.  M-Series Chips are still C - C++ - Objective-C- Swift.  Apple does not allow NXU kernel runs.  Hence Rosetta.  You can test, but it won't pass Apple.
    Appears for all the world to be AI Troll Bot gibberish ->
    edited August 2023 williamlondonwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 13 of 17
    The problem with those saying “it’s inevitable due to x” and “now that there’s x amount of processors” is twofold. One, Apple’s ARM processors have been on the market for fifteen years and in millions of units, yet the amount of discovered exploits doesn’t even approach that of x86. Second, millions more ARM processors have been released by competitors in the same spaces, in addition to those in the embedded market. All present high value targets, so the “obscurity” argument falls apart here. Here again, the exploits discovered over the same span of time on the x86 side are not comparable.

    Whether the weight of x86 flaws and engineering compromises will eventually sink the platform before a fundamental shift in computing makes it moot remains to be seen. As of right now, it’s mostly propped up by the inertia of the software market and the knowledge base of engineers and developers. If either of those advantages falter, or a competing market need (power savings, heat dissipation, $$, etc) becomes paramount, x86 will fail in the market.

    Either way, the premise is still sound: there are significant factors that make transitioning to Apple Silicon, and ARM generally (or other architectures), a good move for numerous market segments. 
    FileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 17
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,928member
    Some vulnerability will be found in Apple Silicon just a matter of time, but Apple has an advantage over Intel. They also design the OS too, which means they have a better chance of fixing crushing a bug without playing musical chairs with another outside company.
    ilarynxbala1234FileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 17
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,401member
    The problem with those saying “it’s inevitable due to x” and “now that there’s x amount of processors” is twofold. One, Apple’s ARM processors have been on the market for fifteen years and in millions of units, yet the amount of discovered exploits doesn’t even approach that of x86. Second, millions more ARM processors have been released by competitors in the same spaces, in addition to those in the embedded market. All present high value targets, so the “obscurity” argument falls apart here. Here again, the exploits discovered over the same span of time on the x86 side are not comparable.

    Whether the weight of x86 flaws and engineering compromises will eventually sink the platform before a fundamental shift in computing makes it moot remains to be seen. As of right now, it’s mostly propped up by the inertia of the software market and the knowledge base of engineers and developers. If either of those advantages falter, or a competing market need (power savings, heat dissipation, $$, etc) becomes paramount, x86 will fail in the market.

    Either way, the premise is still sound: there are significant factors that make transitioning to Apple Silicon, and ARM generally (or other architectures), a good move for numerous market segments. 
    danox said:
    Some vulnerability will be found in Apple Silicon just a matter of time, but Apple has an advantage over Intel. They also design the OS too, which means they have a better chance of fixing crushing a bug without playing musical chairs with another outside company.
    I agree with both of you. I would also add that the appearance of new vulnerabilities in x86 based silicon does not significantly alter the overall benefit to Apple for moving to its own silicon designs. The benefits to Apple and Apple's customers that came out of the move to Apple Silicon have been unprecedented. Apple's rationale for making the move were multifaceted and not exclusive to technical reasons alone.

    I contend that the final straw that broke the Apple-Intel relationship's back probably had more to do with Intel's inability to reliability deliver series-to-series incremental improvements at levels that Apple demanded to support their aggressive product growth strategy. Intel may have been happy with its pace of incremental improvements because they had so many other customers to feed. Many of those other customers were selling Wintel PCs across a wide spectrum of price-performance capabilities and were completely happy to tailor their products and release schedules to be only as good as what Intel allowed them to be. Not Apple.

    Trying to get customers to upgrade based on small spec bumps is not a winning strategy. It's a me-too strategy that the Wintel market has exploited to perfection. Their customer base has been calibrated and conditioned to expect mediocrity. Intel and Microsoft have gladly obliged their customer's meager expectations. This left the Wintel OEMs to compete mostly on price, a strategy that works for fast food burgers and gas stations, but kind of sucks for selling durable goods with thin margins.

    Apple didn't want to play this game, especially at a time when they were seeing their own A-series SoCs leapfrogging in performance from one series to the next. Plus, Apple was seeing their own SoCs approaching, and ultimately surpassing the performance of what Intel was making them wait much too long to obtain. There was a time when Intel helped buoy Apple's ambitions, especially in the PPC to x86 transition years, but it undoubtedly reached a point where Intel became an anchor slowing Apple down. Even though the M1 didn't completely cover every role Intel's processors filled, it achieved a critical mass of capability and performance for a critical mass of Apple customers.

    Yeah, Apple left some things on the table in the process, like discrete GPUs, some huge memory model designs, and BootCamp. However, the net result and multifaceted benefits achieved with the move to Apple Silicon are probably well beyond anything Apple envisioned as a best-case outcome. Avoiding some of these latest security flaws that plague x86 are like having a few extra sprinkles on the winning cake's icing. Apple has been enjoying their cake since the first round of M1 Macs hit the market and things have only gotten better since then. 
    edited August 2023 FileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 17
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,334member
    The problem with those saying “it’s inevitable due to x” and “now that there’s x amount of processors” is twofold. One, Apple’s ARM processors have been on the market for fifteen years and in millions of units, yet the amount of discovered exploits doesn’t even approach that of x86. Second, millions more ARM processors have been released by competitors in the same spaces, in addition to those in the embedded market. All present high value targets, so the “obscurity” argument falls apart here. Here again, the exploits discovered over the same span of time on the x86 side are not comparable.

    Whether the weight of x86 flaws and engineering compromises will eventually sink the platform before a fundamental shift in computing makes it moot remains to be seen. As of right now, it’s mostly propped up by the inertia of the software market and the knowledge base of engineers and developers. If either of those advantages falter, or a competing market need (power savings, heat dissipation, $$, etc) becomes paramount, x86 will fail in the market.

    Either way, the premise is still sound: there are significant factors that make transitioning to Apple Silicon, and ARM generally (or other architectures), a good move for numerous market segments. 
    I think the future of x86 will be determined by whether Intel can recapture the lead in fab process (or at least pull even). It’s not crazy to think they could, given US government support. 

    With process parity, the performance drawbacks of x86 can be obscured through design “tricks” like heterogeneous cores and hyper threading.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 17
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,928member
    blastdoor said:
    The problem with those saying “it’s inevitable due to x” and “now that there’s x amount of processors” is twofold. One, Apple’s ARM processors have been on the market for fifteen years and in millions of units, yet the amount of discovered exploits doesn’t even approach that of x86. Second, millions more ARM processors have been released by competitors in the same spaces, in addition to those in the embedded market. All present high value targets, so the “obscurity” argument falls apart here. Here again, the exploits discovered over the same span of time on the x86 side are not comparable.

    Whether the weight of x86 flaws and engineering compromises will eventually sink the platform before a fundamental shift in computing makes it moot remains to be seen. As of right now, it’s mostly propped up by the inertia of the software market and the knowledge base of engineers and developers. If either of those advantages falter, or a competing market need (power savings, heat dissipation, $$, etc) becomes paramount, x86 will fail in the market.

    Either way, the premise is still sound: there are significant factors that make transitioning to Apple Silicon, and ARM generally (or other architectures), a good move for numerous market segments. 
    I think the future of x86 will be determined by whether Intel can recapture the lead in fab process (or at least pull even). It’s not crazy to think they could, given US government support. 

    With process parity, the performance drawbacks of x86 can be obscured through design “tricks” like heterogeneous cores and hyper threading.

    Can Intel, AMD, Nvidia, Qualcomm truly pull even to a motivated Apple who controls both OS and hardware design? That is the Apple disruption with the M-series introduction, (AMD and Nvidia, have to be recalibrating the wattage and MHz levels they currently use in general), and next year, Intel and Qualcomm in particular will have one more chip to contend with in the R1 coprocessor which wasn’t on their radar?

    Right now Nvidia GPU’s on the surface are king, but that high power (wattage/MHz) can’t go on forever, Apple at some point M4, M5? will reach parity and will do it with lower wattage and MHz.

    And this is why I am buying more Apple shares.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
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