Japan plans to fine Apple over app stores and force sideloading

AppleInsider · December 26, 2023 8:51PM

Japan is preparing regulations that will force Apple and Google to allow alternative App Stores, and impose fines on both for antitrust issues regarding OS market share and preferential search results.

An Apple Store in Japan

The planned laws follow Japan's previous moves to require Apple to allow third-party app stores -- and Apple's attempts to argue against the plan.

According to Nikkei Asia, if proposed regulations are passed by the country's parliament in 2024, the Japanese Fair Trade Commission (FTC) will be allowed to fine firms up to 6% of revenue earned from activities contravening the laws.

No further details regarding App Stores have been decided yet. There is little further information about the rest of the FTC's focusing on browsers, search, and also operating systems.

However, the intention behind focusing on search is to prevent firms such as Apple or Google giving preferential treatment to their own services or products.

While not confirmed, it's likely that the new regulations will also cover the Japanese government's concerns about gathering taxes from developers. In November 2023, it was reported that since it has been difficult to tax app developers based outside Japan, the government was considering taxing Apple and Google directly.

Assuming parliament passes the laws, it will then be the Japanese government that determines which firms any or all of its legislation will apply to. Nikkei Asia says it's the laws are expected to be applied to multinational firms, and not to Japanese ones.

Apple has not commented on this latest move by Japan.

Read on AppleInsider

9secondkox2 · December 26, 2023 9:12PM

The EU disease is infecting the planet.

When Sony is forced to allow Apple and nintendo and microsoft to have their App Stores on PlayStation and tv sets, then we can talk.

Such nonsense.

tht · December 26, 2023 9:51PM

9secondkox2 said:

The EU disease is infecting the planet.

When Sony is forced to allow Apple and nintendo and microsoft to have their App Stores on PlayStation and tv sets, then we can talk.

Such nonsense.

Heh: Nikkei Asia says it's the laws are expected to be applied to multinational firms, and not to Japanese ones.

Sounds like you won’t be talking to them for a very long while, just like with how all these new EU laws just happen to exclude all EU companies.

You know, 16 years ago, when everyone and their brother knew that Symbian needed to be rearchitected for the world that the iPhone introduced, the EU did squat? I honestly don’t remember. Everyone saw it coming. It was all-hands on deck for all competitors. It was not a time for the status quo of working. It was definitely hair on fire time.

Nokia and company put together something like a 4 year plan to get Symbian^5 out the door, when it needed to be 1 year, 2 years at most. The EU should have put in time and money to get Symbian to be competitive. Instead, Nokia’s old platform was left to burn at sea, and they decided to let Microsoft buy and kill them. Infineon wasn’t subsidized so that they could continue developing cellular modems, and they let Intel buy them.

Nokia, Ericsson and Siemens had about 50% market share in mobile phones! It’s near zero now.

Similar story with Japanese companies. Have to go re-read the business axioms on why incumbents can’t change even though they see the cliff coming.

appleinsideruser · December 26, 2023 10:17PM

As Apple have “strapped on a pair” regarding toughing it out with Apple Watch, perhaps they’ll do the same here? I double-dare them! 😂

rob53 · December 26, 2023 11:12PM

The Japanese economy is suffering because of the introduction of EVs, none of which are regularly coming from Japan. I see Japan's demand for opening Apple's App Store (Google really has multiple stores but none used as much as Apple's) as a way to try and grab money. Maybe the USA needs to remind the Japanese who rebuilt Japan after WWII. I know the USA destroyed Japan but Japan didn't need to attack Hawaii and attempt to attack mainland USA. I'm also reminding the European countries who received, and continue to receive, lots of money from the USA. Maybe it's time to stop biting the hand that feeds you.

danox · December 27, 2023 1:20AM

tht said:

9secondkox2 said:

The EU disease is infecting the planet.

When Sony is forced to allow Apple and nintendo and microsoft to have their App Stores on PlayStation and tv sets, then we can talk.

Such nonsense.

Heh: Nikkei Asia says it's the laws are expected to be applied to multinational firms, and not to Japanese ones.

Sounds like you won’t be talking to them for a very long while, just like with how all these new EU laws just happen to exclude all EU companies.

You know, 16 years ago, when everyone and their brother knew that Symbian needed to be rearchitected for the world that the iPhone introduced, the EU did squat? I honestly don’t remember. Everyone saw it coming. It was all-hands on deck for all competitors. It was not a time for the status quo of working. It was definitely hair on fire time.

Nokia and company put together something like a 4 year plan to get Symbian^5 out the door, when it needed to be 1 year, 2 years at most. The EU should have put in time and money to get Symbian to be competitive. Instead, Nokia’s old platform was left to burn at sea, and they decided to let Microsoft buy and kill them. Infineon wasn’t subsidized so that they could continue developing cellular modems, and they let Intel buy them.

Nokia, Ericsson and Siemens had about 50% market share in mobile phones! It’s near zero now.

Similar story with Japanese companies. Have to go re-read the business axioms on why incumbents can’t change even though they see the cliff coming.

No one Microsoft, Nokia, Sony Ericson, Blackberry or Palm believed at the time (2007) that Apple had a chance against them, however no one believes that anymore not even the usually clueless politicians.......

danox · December 27, 2023 1:31AM

appleinsideruser said:

As Apple have “strapped on a pair” regarding toughing it out with Apple Watch, perhaps they’ll do the same here? I double-dare them! ߘ⦬t;/div>

Apple just needs to politely remind the Japanese politicians behind close doors that Chinese and South Korean smartphones are the alternatives. The Japanese public has already spoken and they prefer iPhones at an even greater margin than the American public.

mikethemartian · December 27, 2023 2:16AM

rob53 said:

The Japanese economy is suffering because of the introduction of EVs, none of which are regularly coming from Japan. I see Japan's demand for opening Apple's App Store (Google really has multiple stores but none used as much as Apple's) as a way to try and grab money. Maybe the USA needs to remind the Japanese who rebuilt Japan after WWII. I know the USA destroyed Japan but Japan didn't need to attack Hawaii and attempt to attack mainland USA. I'm also reminding the European countries who received, and continue to receive, lots of money from the USA. Maybe it's time to stop biting the hand that feeds you.

What the hell does WWII have to do with this story?

NotSoMuch · December 27, 2023 2:52AM

mikethemartian said:

rob53 said:

The Japanese economy is suffering because of the introduction of EVs, none of which are regularly coming from Japan. I see Japan's demand for opening Apple's App Store (Google really has multiple stores but none used as much as Apple's) as a way to try and grab money. Maybe the USA needs to remind the Japanese who rebuilt Japan after WWII. I know the USA destroyed Japan but Japan didn't need to attack Hawaii and attempt to attack mainland USA. I'm also reminding the European countries who received, and continue to receive, lots of money from the USA. Maybe it's time to stop biting the hand that feeds you.

What the hell does WWII have to do with this story?

Some people will always amaze you with their wisdom or lack of such.

jdw · December 27, 2023 3:02AM

9secondkox2 said:

The EU disease is infecting the planet.

While I cannot disagree with the fact the "EU" is properly pronounced "Eeeeeeewwww!" and for good reason, I will say that in this particular case, Japan is the country at fault, largely driven by their own desires, not that of EU trends. The root problem here is the vicious desire to TAX & SPEND. If you exclude that, Japan wouldn't be taking any kind of action at all. Japan just wants more money so it can spend more, and not really do that much from all that spending. I know because I've lived here in Japan since 1994. Their sales tax hikes in the 1990's were said to cause only a few months to a year (at most, they said) of misery, but we've never really recovered. Tax & Spend lunacy at its finest. And yeah, sales taxes are applied on grocery items too in Japan. So if you're poor and can hardly afford milk, you'll pay sales tax on that milk -- oh es you will! They charge you 8% on that milk, unless you go to McDonalds and drink it in-store. Then they'll tax it 10%.

Tax & Spend is the real disease. The only way that can stop is when the people rise up and stop it. But no one is. Everyone complains, to be sure, but they refrain from revolutionary changes that could fixing the system. Everything keeps going the way it always has. Tax and spend, tax and spend, tax and spend...

killroy · December 27, 2023 3:24AM

This looks like the first shot of a trade war.

jdw · December 27, 2023 4:42AM

killroy said:

This looks like the first shot of a trade war.

Not a true "trade war". Biden won't do anything — that's clear from his inaction on Apple Watch. A re-elected Trump might stand up for Apple because it's a valuable US-based, home-grown success story. In such a case, I suspect Trump might say, "tax our companies, and we'll tax yours 10-fold." That would halt Japan's actions pretty quickly. But that most likely would come after Japan has already enacted their taxes on Apple.

danox · December 27, 2023 4:57AM

jdw said:

killroy said:

This looks like the first shot of a trade war.

Not a true "trade war". Biden won't do anything — that's clear from his inaction on Apple Watch. A re-elected Trump might stand up for Apple because it's a valuable US-based, home-grown success story. In such a case, I suspect Trump might say, "tax our companies, and we'll tax yours 10-fold." That would halt Japan's actions pretty quickly. But that most likely would come after Japan has already enacted their taxes on Apple.

In East Asia long term thinking and politeness with purpose works best?, Tim Cook seems to be the right man for the job so far.

jdw · December 27, 2023 5:14AM

danox said:

jdw said:

killroy said:

This looks like the first shot of a trade war.

Not a true "trade war". Biden won't do anything — that's clear from his inaction on Apple Watch. A re-elected Trump might stand up for Apple because it's a valuable US-based, home-grown success story. In such a case, I suspect Trump might say, "tax our companies, and we'll tax yours 10-fold." That would halt Japan's actions pretty quickly. But that most likely would come after Japan has already enacted their taxes on Apple.

In East Asia long term thinking and politeness with purpose works best?, Tim Cook seems to be the right man for the job so far.

If you think being polite and respective of culture will help them avoid the forthcoming tax in Japan, you have another thing coming. Asian countries appreciate Tim, but they still want to tax him. And they want to tax you and me too. In fact, they do. When governments tax companies, prices go up and you and I pay for it, on top of the individual taxes we already pay. This is the great crime against humanity that taxation imposes.

Yes, there are "benefits" but most people fail to realize the true cost to us all. I try to steer clear of people who cry "let XXX pay their FAIR SHARE," as those types haven't the faintest idea what they're asking. It is they, as well as you and I who will end up paying more in the long run. Again, this has nothing to do with Tim Cook being a good guy. Believe me, I've owned AAPL since 1999 and never sold a single share. I can say the praises of Tim all day. But like I said, that's not a matter linked to taxation.

buku · December 27, 2023 7:32AM

AppleInsider said:

Japan is preparing regulations that will force Apple and Google to allow alternative App Store, and impose fines for antitrust issues regarding OS market share and preferential search results.

An Apple Store in Japan

The planned laws follow Japan's previous moves to require Apple to allow third-party app stores -- and Apple's attempts to argue against the plan.

According to Nikkei Asia, if proposed regulations are passed by the country's parliament in 2024, the Japanese Fair Trade Commission (FTC) will be allowed to fine firms up to 6% of revenue earned from activities contravening the laws.

No further details regarding App Stores have been decided yet. There is little further information about the rest of the FTC's focusing on browsers, search, and also operating systems.

However, the intention behind focusing on search is to prevent firms such as Apple or Google giving preferential treatment to their own services or products.

While not confirmed, it's likely that the new regulations will also cover the Japanese government's concerns about gathering taxes from developers. In November 2023, it was reported that since it has been difficult to tax app developers based outside Japan, the government was considering taxing Apple and Google directly.

Assuming parliament passes the laws, it will then be the Japanese government that determines which firms any or all of its legislation will apply to. Nikkei Asia says it's the laws are expected to be applied to multinational firms, and not to Japanese ones.

Apple has not commented on this latest move by Japan.

Read on AppleInsider

As economy almost completely base on the monopoly and oligarchy. Japan should take the same action to theirs home-base firm before. Like Sony and SoftBank.

longfang · December 27, 2023 1:05PM

mikethemartian said:

rob53 said:

The Japanese economy is suffering because of the introduction of EVs, none of which are regularly coming from Japan. I see Japan's demand for opening Apple's App Store (Google really has multiple stores but none used as much as Apple's) as a way to try and grab money. Maybe the USA needs to remind the Japanese who rebuilt Japan after WWII. I know the USA destroyed Japan but Japan didn't need to attack Hawaii and attempt to attack mainland USA. I'm also reminding the European countries who received, and continue to receive, lots of money from the USA. Maybe it's time to stop biting the hand that feeds you.

What the hell does WWII have to do with this story?

Something, something about nukes.

YP101 · December 27, 2023 1:47PM

Since most of Apple product hard to crack by every government agency, they just make Apple to open side loading.
This is just way of control.

killroy · December 27, 2023 6:56PM

OS market share ! Then Microsoft should be toast.

killroy · December 27, 2023 7:00PM

YP101 said:

Since most of Apple product hard to crack by every government agency, they just make Apple to open side loading.
This is just way of control.

Then you will just love this.

https://arstechnica.com/security/2023/12/exploit-used-in-mass-iphone-infection-campaign-targeted-secret-hardware-feature/

blastdoor · December 27, 2023 7:14PM

It sure seems that forced sideloading is going to happen eventually. I guess we will just see what happens. I suspect it won’t end up being as big a deal, both good and bad, as people think.

johnfrombeyond · December 27, 2023 7:31PM

I've never heard a single consumer say they wanted more app stores on the iPhone. Only mega million dollar companies who want to make more profit themselves. Why do politicians keep trying to "fix" something that isn't broken, which will actually ruin the iPhone ecosystem? As a small developer adding more app stores is my worst nightmare.

Japan plans to fine Apple over app stores and force sideloading

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