I still can't believe the battery runtimes of this device. 2 hrs for what looks to be a 30 WHr battery? Maybe 40 WHr?
That's 15 to 20 Watts of heat 2 inches in front of your eyes. The fan is going to be blowing some air. So, every chip component inside the VP needs to be at the next node ASAP, and only have minimal performance improvements. Weight needs to go down by half.
The battery pack looks a bit smaller than 30Wh. There's a 37Wh pack here that looks almost twice the thickness of the AVP battery pack:
It will likely ship with M3 and run at ~10W or less, maybe higher peak. 10W is low enough to be passively cooled. It would get hot if it was much more than this. 15W is probably fine with a fan.
Compute power will be low for movies vs a 3D game, some of the power will go to the displays. People who tried it in the demos for about half an hour didn't say it got hot, the following reviewer said the frame was cool to the touch after 30-40 minutes of use.
I can believe it being 20 WHr, with using two iPhone batteries. Though two Pro Max batteries will be 30 WHr.
But, I'm thinking the microOLEDs, sensors+cameras, R1 and GPU is taking 90% of that 10 W if so. An iPhone 15 gets about 20 hours video playback on a 13 WHr battery. Video playback is just running through the video hardware codec and pushed to the display. That's only 0.65 W. So, microOLEDs, sensors+cameras, R1 and maybe GPU are soaking up some power, just to watch a video, keeping that video in a window stable in view, fusing the camera feeds, so on and so forth.
Even a 1 node advance won't get them that far. Another hour maybe? The microOLEDs are basically postage stamp size and, combined, are 1/3rd the size of a phone display. They are taking 2x, 4x the power per square inch? And, the running the cameras continuously takes a lot of energy too.
A lot of work ahead to improve efficiency, reduce weight. Still surprised MagSafe isn't in the battery module, unless they are leaving it as a surprise, which I find doubtful.
Curious as to how personal lenses will be handled. I intend to order on day one. Will box be sent to me, then I have to take it to an Apple Store to be tested to see if I need special lenses? (I had cataract surgery a while back so no longer need glasses, but do have low-correction readers if I’m going to be spending a lot of time reading smaller print.) Or, do I pick up the box at the Store and get tested on the spot? If the latter, do buyers get preference over demo people in the Stores on the 2nd? Hope Apple will be forthcoming clearing up these questions.
Same question for me because I also have a fixed focus for far vision lens implants. I normally use a variety of readers between 2.0 and 3.0, depending on the distance between my eyes and what I'm working on. I tried a friend's Meta Quest Pro a few days ago and I had no issues whatsoever focusing on all of the visual elements, including text. I am eager to hear how you and others with similar visual limitations fare with the Vision Pro.
As far as my Meta Quest Pro experiment ... it did open my eyes to the potential enjoyment that one can experience with VR/MR headsets in general. The Meta Pro implementation was actually better technically than I expected in terms of immersion and integration with your surroundings. I fully expect the Vision Pro will be at least an order of magnitude better besides being much less focused on social and online multi-player gaming and more focused on personal experiences, entertainment, and productivity of some sort.
It seems like every time I've jumped into an online multiplayer environment, say online multiplayer XBox games, it's just been a place for preteens and brain atrophied adults to exchange non-stop verbal insults laced with profanity. Anyway, I don't see Apple's Vision Pro experience falling into that kind of cesspool. That's not the target audience that Apple's Vision Pro is going after, but keeping it that way in an ecosystem that allows third party content will be something we'll learn about as the system builds out. My hope is that Apple can continue to play its vital role in what it allows into the environment it created despite the many government regulators who are seemingly rooting for the cesspool to prevail in the name of "openness and competition."
I always go by the adage for all Apple products (pretty much), never be the 1st Gen buyer of said new product. Wait till Gen 3 or later (if you can) at least. Better bang for your $.
I’ve always been a first adopter and never regretted it. First iMac gave me great service, as did iPhone, iPad, and watch. Did they get better and cheaper over time? Sure. But got a lot of pleasure and use out of each and considered it money well spent. Not a clunker or rip off in the lot.
Oh for sure there are items that are pretty much decent outta the box, but some of the capabilities tend to be limited right outta the gate sometimes. I was an iPhone 4 purchaser when I decided to get one after a few yrs of not owning a cell phone. For the iPad I waited until 2018, picked up an 11in Pro version (bought referrbed), then traded it in for a 12.9 in M2 last yr. I guess my argument is mainly about their peripheral devices and not your laptops or desktops.
I still can't believe the battery runtimes of this device. 2 hrs for what looks to be a 30 WHr battery? Maybe 40 WHr?
That's 15 to 20 Watts of heat 2 inches in front of your eyes. The fan is going to be blowing some air. So, every chip component inside the VP needs to be at the next node ASAP, and only have minimal performance improvements. Weight needs to go down by half.
The battery pack looks a bit smaller than 30Wh. There's a 37Wh pack here that looks almost twice the thickness of the AVP battery pack:
It will likely ship with M3 and run at ~10W or less, maybe higher peak. 10W is low enough to be passively cooled. It would get hot if it was much more than this. 15W is probably fine with a fan.
Compute power will be low for movies vs a 3D game, some of the power will go to the displays. People who tried it in the demos for about half an hour didn't say it got hot, the following reviewer said the frame was cool to the touch after 30-40 minutes of use.
I can believe it being 20 WHr, with using two iPhone batteries. Though two Pro Max batteries will be 30 WHr.
But, I'm thinking the microOLEDs, sensors+cameras, R1 and GPU is taking 90% of that 10 W if so. An iPhone 15 gets about 20 hours video playback on a 13 WHr battery. Video playback is just running through the video hardware codec and pushed to the display. That's only 0.65 W. So, microOLEDs, sensors+cameras, R1 and maybe GPU are soaking up some power, just to watch a video, keeping that video in a window stable in view, fusing the camera feeds, so on and so forth.
Even a 1 node advance won't get them that far. Another hour maybe? The microOLEDs are basically postage stamp size and, combined, are 1/3rd the size of a phone display. They are taking 2x, 4x the power per square inch? And, the running the cameras continuously takes a lot of energy too.
A lot of work ahead to improve efficiency, reduce weight. Still surprised MagSafe isn't in the battery module, unless they are leaving it as a surprise, which I find doubtful.
I’m surprised about the lack of MagSafe too, but I supposed the concern might be the battery getting knocked off — would this kill the power completely? I thought Apple would have a MagSafe pad that would have a small amount of charge in it, and users could switch out MagSafe battery packs on this pad for continuous use. If Apple doesn’t release this, someone will.
And also remember: the original iPhone cost $699- —exorbitant!— and now cost… $1,200-
No, it was initially $499 4GB/$599 8GB subsidized by a two year contract with Cingular, so the actual price was much higher. The iPhone 15 starts at $799, not $1200.
Curious as to how personal lenses will be handled. I intend to order on day one. Will box be sent to me, then I have to take it to an Apple Store to be tested to see if I need special lenses? (I had cataract surgery a while back so no longer need glasses, but do have low-correction readers if I’m going to be spending a lot of time reading smaller print.) Or, do I pick up the box at the Store and get tested on the spot? If the latter, do buyers get preference over demo people in the Stores on the 2nd? Hope Apple will be forthcoming clearing up these questions.
I don't understand the reference to "readers". The way the lenses work in HMDs, you are focused on a distant point, not up close like you would be for reading glasses. When I take my contacts out, I can see up close very clearly. If I put on my PSVR, everything is blurry as hell without contacts for distance. So I don't understand why "readers" are an option here.
it is best to begin from the top… and then easily go down… than begin from the bottom and then try build upon a clunky design. See Quest. (Tesla copied this business model!)
Apple did in the past launch a few products at the top only to massively restructure things. Lisa ended up in part rebranded as Macintosh XL and part in landfill in Utah with Mac being 75% cheaper! Watch 1st Edition - top price of $12000 - and then series 1 had the top price reduced by 90%. iPhone... Apple launched it at $599 and then dropped it two months later to $399 (33%). Apple should slash the price to $2000 and launch an M3/Wifi 7 version this summer for $2500.
That may happen, but not because it “should.” It happens due to market forces. The iPhone sold way above expectations, so they could justify dropping the price. The Lisa was severely overpriced and it didn’t sell. The Watch had that one option but most were far cheaper.
And also remember: the original iPhone cost $699- —exorbitant!— and now cost… $1,200-
No, it was initially $499 4GB/$599 8GB subsidized by a two year contract with Cingular, so the actual price was much higher. The iPhone 15 starts at $799, not $1200.
Incorrect. The first iPhone was not subsidized by AT&T at launch. You paid full price for the phone at $499 or $599, and still locked to a two year contract because AT&T had the exclusive rights for 3 years until 2010. Later in the year, Apple wanted to get the phone out to more people so Steve Jobs reached a deal with AT&T to subsidize the price of the phone, along with the two year contract, and dropped the price to $199. Watch the keynote with that price drop. That is how most phones were done back in the day. Then with the iPhone X, Apple jacked the price up to $999 and the rest of the industry followed. Now they don't like to call them contracts, but you can still either buy the phone at full price or 'make payments' over the two year period along with the data plan to pay off the phone.
it is best to begin from the top… and then easily go down… than begin from the bottom and then try build upon a clunky design. See Quest. (Tesla copied this business model!)
Apple did in the past launch a few products at the top only to massively restructure things. Lisa ended up in part rebranded as Macintosh XL and part in landfill in Utah with Mac being 75% cheaper! Watch 1st Edition - top price of $12000 - and then series 1 had the top price reduced by 90%. iPhone... Apple launched it at $599 and then dropped it two months later to $399 (33%). Apple should slash the price to $2000 and launch an M3/Wifi 7 version this summer for $2500.
That may happen, but not because it “should.” It happens due to market forces. The iPhone sold way above expectations, so they could justify dropping the price. The Lisa was severely overpriced and it didn’t sell. The Watch had that one option but most were far cheaper.
Apple did not drop the price of the first iPhone. They reached a deal with AT&T to subsidize the price down to $199 so Steve Jobs could get the phone out to more people. But you paid more each month to cover the cost of the phone, but you did not have to pay the full price of $499 or $599 up front, but you were charged sales tax for the full price of the phone at the time of purchase, along with the $199 subsidized price.
And the Apple Watch 1st Edition was $10,000 for the 14K gold model. It was not reduced 90%. Nubus has no clue what they are talking about.
I still can't believe the battery runtimes of this device. 2 hrs for what looks to be a 30 WHr battery? Maybe 40 WHr?
That's 15 to 20 Watts of heat 2 inches in front of your eyes. The fan is going to be blowing some air. So, every chip component inside the VP needs to be at the next node ASAP, and only have minimal performance improvements. Weight needs to go down by half.
The battery pack looks a bit smaller than 30Wh. There's a 37Wh pack here that looks almost twice the thickness of the AVP battery pack:
It will likely ship with M3 and run at ~10W or less, maybe higher peak. 10W is low enough to be passively cooled. It would get hot if it was much more than this. 15W is probably fine with a fan.
Compute power will be low for movies vs a 3D game, some of the power will go to the displays. People who tried it in the demos for about half an hour didn't say it got hot, the following reviewer said the frame was cool to the touch after 30-40 minutes of use.
I can believe it being 20 WHr, with using two iPhone batteries. Though two Pro Max batteries will be 30 WHr.
But, I'm thinking the microOLEDs, sensors+cameras, R1 and GPU is taking 90% of that 10 W if so. An iPhone 15 gets about 20 hours video playback on a 13 WHr battery. Video playback is just running through the video hardware codec and pushed to the display. That's only 0.65 W. So, microOLEDs, sensors+cameras, R1 and maybe GPU are soaking up some power, just to watch a video, keeping that video in a window stable in view, fusing the camera feeds, so on and so forth.
Even a 1 node advance won't get them that far. Another hour maybe? The microOLEDs are basically postage stamp size and, combined, are 1/3rd the size of a phone display. They are taking 2x, 4x the power per square inch? And, the running the cameras continuously takes a lot of energy too.
A lot of work ahead to improve efficiency, reduce weight. Still surprised MagSafe isn't in the battery module, unless they are leaving it as a surprise, which I find doubtful.
I’m surprised about the lack of MagSafe too, but I supposed the concern might be the battery getting knocked off — would this kill the power completely? I thought Apple would have a MagSafe pad that would have a small amount of charge in it, and users could switch out MagSafe battery packs on this pad for continuous use. If Apple doesn’t release this, someone will.
Presumably, nothing happens if the VP battery is knocked off a MagSafe charger. The battery presumably immediately starts powering the VP. The VP will have capacitors and circuitry to cover the milliseconds of no power during the switchover.
Same thing when the battery has a USB-PD charger plugged in. When it is unplugged, the battery starts powering the VP immediately. The reverse when plugged in.
If a lot of customers use it for 2 to 6 hours while mobile, Apple can build a larger battery accessory soon enough. If it is not serialized, 3rd parties will do it. Wonder what type of port or connector that power cable going into the battery is. It doesn't look soldered in like in the old Mac MagSafe chargers.
And also remember: the original iPhone cost $699- —exorbitant!— and now cost… $1,200-
No, it was initially $499 4GB/$599 8GB subsidized by a two year contract with Cingular, so the actual price was much higher. The iPhone 15 starts at $799, not $1200.
Incorrect. The first iPhone was not subsidized by AT&T at launch. You paid full price for the phone at $499 or $599, and still locked to a two year contract because AT&T had the exclusive rights for 3 years until 2010. Later in the year, Apple wanted to get the phone out to more people so Steve Jobs reached a deal with AT&T to subsidize the price of the phone, along with the two year contract, and dropped the price to $199. Watch the keynote with that price drop. That is how most phones were done back in the day. Then with the iPhone X, Apple jacked the price up to $999 and the rest of the industry followed. Now they don't like to call them contracts, but you can still either buy the phone at full price or 'make payments' over the two year period along with the data plan to pay off the phone.
Apple didn’t drop the originally iPhone down to $199, they dropped the $599 model down *by* $200, to $399.
Since it had a 2-year contract w/ AT&T, I’m fairly certain AT&T was paying Apple for the privilege of locking customers in for 2 years. and it was subsidized by them, from Day 1, but I can’t know for certain.
quote: ”Lenses cost $99 for "readers" and $149 for prescription Zeiss Optical inserts.”
I do not live in the US. Can anybody tell me how much a Zeiss —not a cheap plastic one— reader/prescirption lenses cost?
And on the cost of the device… The new 57" gaming monitor shown at CES cost like… $2,500- HoloLens used to cost $3,500.
And also remember: the original iPhone cost $699- —exorbitant!— and now cost… $1,200-
On the other hand… it is best to begin from the top… and then easily go down… than begin from the bottom and then try build upon a clunky design. See Quest. (Tesla copied this business model!)
Meta is going for a different market with a different product positioning. I own the Quest 3 and the design is not clunky, it is exactly the right product for the price point and they have a great content offering. The controllers open up a category Apple won’t be able to serve with just hand tracking.
Different strategies for different goals. There’s no singular ‘correct’ strategy.
quote: ”Lenses cost $99 for "readers" and $149 for prescription Zeiss Optical inserts.”
I do not live in the US. Can anybody tell me how much a Zeiss —not a cheap plastic one— reader/prescirption lenses cost?
And on the cost of the device… The new 57" gaming monitor shown at CES cost like… $2,500- HoloLens used to cost $3,500.
And also remember: the original iPhone cost $699- —exorbitant!— and now cost… $1,200-
On the other hand… it is best to begin from the top… and then easily go down… than begin from the bottom and then try build upon a clunky design. See Quest. (Tesla copied this business model!)
Meta is going for a different market with a different product positioning. I own the Quest 3 and the design is not clunky, it is exactly the right product for the price point and they have a great content offering. The controllers open up a category Apple won’t be able to serve with just hand tracking.
Different strategies for different goals. There’s no singular ‘correct’ strategy.
There will be third party controls for the Vision pro just like the iPad has a market places of stylus that aren’t required but useful. Developers can turn any object that suits them into a controller active or inactive
Comments
But, I'm thinking the microOLEDs, sensors+cameras, R1 and GPU is taking 90% of that 10 W if so. An iPhone 15 gets about 20 hours video playback on a 13 WHr battery. Video playback is just running through the video hardware codec and pushed to the display. That's only 0.65 W. So, microOLEDs, sensors+cameras, R1 and maybe GPU are soaking up some power, just to watch a video, keeping that video in a window stable in view, fusing the camera feeds, so on and so forth.
Even a 1 node advance won't get them that far. Another hour maybe? The microOLEDs are basically postage stamp size and, combined, are 1/3rd the size of a phone display. They are taking 2x, 4x the power per square inch? And, the running the cameras continuously takes a lot of energy too.
A lot of work ahead to improve efficiency, reduce weight. Still surprised MagSafe isn't in the battery module, unless they are leaving it as a surprise, which I find doubtful.
As far as my Meta Quest Pro experiment ... it did open my eyes to the potential enjoyment that one can experience with VR/MR headsets in general. The Meta Pro implementation was actually better technically than I expected in terms of immersion and integration with your surroundings. I fully expect the Vision Pro will be at least an order of magnitude better besides being much less focused on social and online multi-player gaming and more focused on personal experiences, entertainment, and productivity of some sort.
It seems like every time I've jumped into an online multiplayer environment, say online multiplayer XBox games, it's just been a place for preteens and brain atrophied adults to exchange non-stop verbal insults laced with profanity. Anyway, I don't see Apple's Vision Pro experience falling into that kind of cesspool. That's not the target audience that Apple's Vision Pro is going after, but keeping it that way in an ecosystem that allows third party content will be something we'll learn about as the system builds out. My hope is that Apple can continue to play its vital role in what it allows into the environment it created despite the many government regulators who are seemingly rooting for the cesspool to prevail in the name of "openness and competition."
Oh for sure there are items that are pretty much decent outta the box, but some of the capabilities tend to be limited right outta the gate sometimes. I was an iPhone 4 purchaser when I decided to get one after a few yrs of not owning a cell phone. For the iPad I waited until 2018, picked up an 11in Pro version (bought referrbed), then traded it in for a 12.9 in M2 last yr. I guess my argument is mainly about their peripheral devices and not your laptops or desktops.
Apple did not drop the price of the first iPhone. They reached a deal with AT&T to subsidize the price down to $199 so Steve Jobs could get the phone out to more people. But you paid more each month to cover the cost of the phone, but you did not have to pay the full price of $499 or $599 up front, but you were charged sales tax for the full price of the phone at the time of purchase, along with the $199 subsidized price.
And the Apple Watch 1st Edition was $10,000 for the 14K gold model. It was not reduced 90%. Nubus has no clue what they are talking about.
Same thing when the battery has a USB-PD charger plugged in. When it is unplugged, the battery starts powering the VP immediately. The reverse when plugged in.
If a lot of customers use it for 2 to 6 hours while mobile, Apple can build a larger battery accessory soon enough. If it is not serialized, 3rd parties will do it. Wonder what type of port or connector that power cable going into the battery is. It doesn't look soldered in like in the old Mac MagSafe chargers.
Since it had a 2-year contract w/ AT&T, I’m fairly certain AT&T was paying Apple for the privilege of locking customers in for 2 years. and it was subsidized by them, from Day 1, but I can’t know for certain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_(1st_generation)#Price_drops_and_revisions