EU antitrust chief ready to get on Apple's case about fees and safety warnings

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The Digital Markets Act forced companies like Apple to open up opportunities for more competition, but the legislation has resulted in new problems with monetization and security concerns.

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Apple's compliance with the DMA may not satisfy regulators



Apple's problems with the Digital Markets Act have only just begun as regulators scrutinize every inch of the company's compliance efforts. It seems there may be some concern that Apple is trying to drive developers away from the new contract options.

An interview conducted by Reuters with the EU's antitrust chief Margrethe Vestager revealed that key portions of company's compliance with the DMA will be under investigation. Apple specifically may be causing problems with its fees and security warnings.

"There are things that we take a keen interest in, for instance, if the new Apple fee structure will de facto not make it in any way attractive to use the benefits of the DMA," Vestager said in the interview. "That kind of thing is what we will be investigating."

The fee structure in question is Apple's Core Technology Fee, which requires developers with over 1 million app downloads to pay half a euro for each new download annually. The structure has caused worry amongst developers that build free apps, which could be financially ruined by such a fee.

Vestager also isn't happy with how Apple might be discouraging users from engaging with external app marketplaces. Warnings tell users about security risks associated with using apps outside the App Store.

"I would think of it as unwise to say that the services are not safe to use, because that has nothing to do with the DMA," Vestager said about the warnings. "The DMA is there to open the market for other service providers to get to you and how your service provider of your operating system, how they will make sure that it is safe is for them to decide."

Developer feedback is also helping the EU antitrust chief decide what to investigate. There has apparently been plenty of feedback beyond the high-profile complaints from companies like Spotify and Epic.



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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 28
    "I would think of it as unwise to say that the services are not safe to use, because that has nothing to do with the DMA," Vestager said about the warnings. "The DMA is there to open the market for other service providers to get to you and how your service provider of your operating system, how they will make sure that it is safe is for them to decide."
    Uhhhhh...if the other service providers get to decide how "safe it is" then why wouldn't Apple be allowed to say there are risks? Vestager just admitted that the DMA doesn't have security standards. Didn't the EU previously claim that App Store users would have no idea that they could pay for things on the internet unless a message inside the app told them they could do it? But now Apple isn't allowed to communicate that the security standards will be different...which is definitely true according to Vestager herself.
    edited March 19 lolliverAlex1Ndarelrexteejay2012watto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 28
    “Aye, aye! and I'll chase him round Good Hope, and round the Horn, and round the Norway Maelstrom, and round perdition's flames before I give him up.”
    Alex1Nwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 28
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,423member
    "how they will make sure it is safe is for them to decide"

    Security is always the last item on the list of priorities for the EU.
    edited March 19 ronnlolliverdarelrexteejay2012watto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 28
    “Aye, aye! and I'll chase him round Good Hope, and round the Horn, and round the Norway Maelstrom, and round perdition's flames before I give him up.”
    LOL...Moby Apple, the rainbow whale that ate Nokia and Ericcson's smartphones. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 28
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,074member
    "I would think of it as unwise to say that the services are not safe to use, because that has nothing to do with the DMA," Vestager said about the warnings. "The DMA is there to open the market for other service providers to get to you and how your service provider of your operating system, how they will make sure that it is safe is for them to decide."
    Uhhhhh...if the other service providers get to decide how "safe it is" then why wouldn't Apple be allowed to say there are risks? Vestager just admitted that the DMA doesn't have security standards. Didn't the EU previously claim that App Store users would have no idea that they could pay for things on the internet unless a message inside the app told them they could do it? But now Apple isn't allowed to communicate that the security standards will be different...which is definitely true according to Vestager herself.
    Bingo.

    Apple offers a number of consumer protection benefits for users of third-party apps downloaded through the App Store, and in-app subscriptions and purchases handled through the App Store. Apps are reviewed for compatibility and compliance with consumer data collection standards, including required transparency and permissions for collection and use of certain user data. In-app subscriptions can be stopped as easily as they are started. The list goes on. 

    For third-party app stores, these things - by definition - will not be handled by Apple, and Apple can't guarantee that similar standards will be maintained by operators of third-party app stores. They not only should be allowed to communicate this, an actual consumer protection law should probably require that this be communicated.

    As much as the EU seems to be actively pretending it's not the case, the primary reason that some app developers want to have access to the iOS platform outside the App Store, is specifically because they want to defy Apple's standards for security, privacy and consumer protections. They want to collect and sell user data and they want to implement in-app sales and subscription practices that don't meet Apple's standards. 
    edited March 19 tmaylolliverAlex1N9secondkox2foregoneconclusiondarelrexdarbus69teejay2012thtnrg2
  • Reply 6 of 28
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,861member
    Apple needs to sue the eu. 

    Not sure how the courts thete would rule, so perhaps wait until there is a more favorable dynamic in the US government. 

    Apple doesn’t have to make it beneficial to use small compared to their own business. They complied with the law. Boom done. 

    All this micromanaging is bypassing continental governance and diving right into the private company boardroom. Not acceptable. 

    Already apple has acquiesced too much with the epic situation. Easily probable that epic earned its ban previously and snuck back in to the App Store. 

    I’m sure Cook feels they are walking on eggshells since the eu seems determined to single them out and make an example of them, but he is in danger of becoming a doormat. 

    Apple does anything at all that a healthy company would do and they get attacked. Then they reverse course. Rinse, lather, repeat. 

    Hopefully previous examples are just apple establish a record of good faith to take even bigger matters to the courts. Possibly even rolling with an incompetent eu to allow the folly of their rulings to be on full display in order to have them reversed in total. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 28
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,861member
    AppleZulu said:
    "I would think of it as unwise to say that the services are not safe to use, because that has nothing to do with the DMA," Vestager said about the warnings. "The DMA is there to open the market for other service providers to get to you and how your service provider of your operating system, how they will make sure that it is safe is for them to decide."
    Uhhhhh...if the other service providers get to decide how "safe it is" then why wouldn't Apple be allowed to say there are risks? Vestager just admitted that the DMA doesn't have security standards. Didn't the EU previously claim that App Store users would have no idea that they could pay for things on the internet unless a message inside the app told them they could do it? But now Apple isn't allowed to communicate that the security standards will be different...which is definitely true according to Vestager herself.
    Bingo.

    Apple offers a number of consumer protection benefits for users of third-party apps downloaded through the App Store, and in-app subscriptions and purchases handled through the App Store. Apps are reviewed for compatibility and compliance with consumer data collection standards, including required transparency and permissions for collection and use of certain user data. In-app subscriptions can be stopped as easily as they are started. The list goes on. 

    For third-party app stores, these things - by definition - will not be handled by Apple, and Apple can't guarantee that similar standards will be maintained by operators of their-party app stores. They not only should be allowed to communicate this, an actual consumer protection law should probably require that this be communicated.

    As much as the EU seems to be actively pretending it's not the case, the primary reason that some app developers want to have access to the iOS platform outside the App Store, is specifically because they want to defy Apple's standards for security, privacy and consumer protections. They want to collect and sell user data and they want to implement in-app sales and subscription practices that don't meet Apple's standards. 
    Exactly it
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 28
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,861member

    “Aye, aye! and I'll chase him round Good Hope, and round the Horn, and round the Norway Maelstrom, and round perdition's flames before I give him up.”
    LOL...Moby Apple, the rainbow whale that ate Nokia and Ericcson's smartphones. 
    “Aye, aye! and I'll chase him round Good Hope, and round the Horn, and round the Norway Maelstrom, and round perdition's flames before I give him up.”
    LOL...Moby Apple, the rainbow whale that ate Nokia and Ericcson's smartphones. 
    And fit it fair and square, coming from behind and beating them in a fair race by simply training harder and running its heart out. 

    But don’t worry, the eu will come to the rescue and send apple to his room with no dinner and give his 1st place gold medal to the kids who didn’t place. 

    Yay. True justice…
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 28
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 2,861member
    . "The DMA is there to open the market for other service providers to get to you and how your service provider of your operating system, how they will make sure that it is safe is for them to decide."

    um…

    so those who have been caught repeatedly hacking and bypassing security/privacy rules in order to spy on and manipulate users, in many cases opening them up to malicious code and actors as a BUSINESS MODEL are the ones the eu is relying on to provide security - when apple is offering a rock-solid system - are going to do a good job? 

    “Yeah, you know, the country has laws and safeguards to prevent bad actors from bullying you and invading/destroying your life, but in the interest of an open market, we feel that the mafia, the Chinese red guard, Russian hackers, Ukrainian bio labs, and the taliban are best left to decide what to do with you.”

    sincerely, Margarethe

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 28
    sirdirsirdir Posts: 189member
    The problem is, there are no compliance efforts. Not really.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 11 of 28
    sirdirsirdir Posts: 189member
    "I would think of it as unwise to say that the services are not safe to use, because that has nothing to do with the DMA," Vestager said about the warnings. "The DMA is there to open the market for other service providers to get to you and how your service provider of your operating system, how they will make sure that it is safe is for them to decide."
    Uhhhhh...if the other service providers get to decide how "safe it is" then why wouldn't Apple be allowed to say there are risks? Vestager just admitted that the DMA doesn't have security standards. Didn't the EU previously claim that App Store users would have no idea that they could pay for things on the internet unless a message inside the app told them they could do it? But now Apple isn't allowed to communicate that the security standards will be different...which is definitely true according to Vestager herself.
    They may be allowed to say that security standards will be different. But they rightfully are not allowed to imply that only what they do is safe. They had tons of malware and scams in the AppStore already, so.. why not stop being hypocritical and anticompetitive and let the other's show how good they are? Installing an alternative Appstore is a chore most users won't even think about doing and those that do will be well aware of the implications anyways. 
    muthuk_vanalingamwilliamlondon
  • Reply 12 of 28
    sirdirsirdir Posts: 189member

    . "The DMA is there to open the market for other service providers to get to you and how your service provider of your operating system, how they will make sure that it is safe is for them to decide."

    um…

    so those who have been caught repeatedly hacking and bypassing security/privacy rules in order to spy on and manipulate users, in many cases opening them up to malicious code and actors as a BUSINESS MODEL are the ones the eu is relying on to provide security - when apple is offering a rock-solid system - are going to do a good job? 

    “Yeah, you know, the country has laws and safeguards to prevent bad actors from bullying you and invading/destroying your life, but in the interest of an open market, we feel that the mafia, the Chinese red guard, Russian hackers, Ukrainian bio labs, and the taliban are best left to decide what to do with you.”

    sincerely, Margarethe

    Apple has in many cases not fixed security wholes they were informed about for months and  years. So… why are they suddenly the gold standard? 
    muthuk_vanalingamwilliamlondon
  • Reply 13 of 28
    Such policies are vindictive and clearly personal for Vestager as she portrays herself as the Joan of Arc for non competitive EU companies such as Spotify. They are hardly victims. These attacks will make EU a very unattractive place to do business, will worsen security for the average user without saving any money, and certainly will not 'up the game' for EU companies. What Vestager really wants is for successful US tech companies to leave the EU. Period.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 28
    First, Isn't there a precedent? Compare the security of Google's Play Store to Apple's.
    Let's see the numbers. No of malware, spams, etc. 

    Second, what the EU wants is to provide the option for everyone and his dog to upload an app to anyone's phone.
    How the heck does this not raise security concerns? 
  • Reply 15 of 28
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,841member
    First, Isn't there a precedent? Compare the security of Google's Play Store to Apple's.
    Let's see the numbers. No of malware, spams, etc. 

    Second, what the EU wants is to provide the option for everyone and his dog to upload an app to anyone's phone.
    How the heck does this not raise security concerns? 
    The DMA/DSA is not a security directive per se. 

    Apple used whatever spin it could to try and protect its favourable situation. That is understandable but was never going to win flavour within the EU because it wasn't dealing with the problem the EU was tackling.

    The infamous 'core technology fee' was questionable from the get go. The chances of it passing the sniff test were slim but Apple tried anyway. Very probably rubbing people up the wrong way in the process. 

    However, we have to wait and see how the EU responds officially. 

    You say the EU wants to provide options and that's correct. 

    An option is not an obligation on users in this case. If you have reservations about third party app stores or direct downloads, alternative browsers, different Wallets etc don't use them. 

    I'm sure Apple won't allow you to install something 'accidentally'. 

    FWIW, I would actually ask around and ask people what their experience in this area is like on Android because if it were only half as bad as people here say, those users would be clamoring to get over Apple’s garden wall. 

    That isn't happening, is it? 

    The reality is that there are possibly users wanting to get out but are effectively locked in. After all, those two words have been emailed around at Apple. 

    My last iPhone was an iPhone 4.

    Android flavours ever since and using multiple app stores and direct downloads. 

    Not a single problem. 


    gatorguy
  • Reply 16 of 28
    AllMAllM Posts: 71member
    avon b7 said:
    First, Isn't there a precedent? Compare the security of Google's Play Store to Apple's.
    Let's see the numbers. No of malware, spams, etc. 

    Second, what the EU wants is to provide the option for everyone and his dog to upload an app to anyone's phone.
    How the heck does this not raise security concerns? 
    The DMA/DSA is not a security directive per se. 

    Apple used whatever spin it could to try and protect its favourable situation. That is understandable but was never going to win flavour within the EU because it wasn't dealing with the problem the EU was tackling.

    The infamous 'core technology fee' was questionable from the get go. The chances of it passing the sniff test were slim but Apple tried anyway. Very probably rubbing people up the wrong way in the process. 

    However, we have to wait and see how the EU responds officially. 

    You say the EU wants to provide options and that's correct. 

    An option is not an obligation on users in this case. If you have reservations about third party app stores or direct downloads, alternative browsers, different Wallets etc don't use them. 

    I'm sure Apple won't allow you to install something 'accidentally'. 

    FWIW, I would actually ask around and ask people what their experience in this area is like on Android because if it were only half as bad as people here say, those users would be clamoring to get over Apple’s garden wall. 

    That isn't happening, is it? 

    The reality is that there are possibly users wanting to get out but are effectively locked in. After all, those two words have been emailed around at Apple. 

    My last iPhone was an iPhone 4.

    Android flavours ever since and using multiple app stores and direct downloads. 

    Not a single problem. 


    I hate to make it conspiratorial, but doesn’t it look like this Vestager lady is trying to desensitise the users to the possible installation of governmental spyware?

    If they truly wanted to provide options, wouldn’t they make Apple’s App Store a must for every developer? Otherwise, it would adversely affect the users not interested in third-party app stores. Say Adobe decided to only distribute their stuff through their own store. In effect, that would force their customers to use it, switching away from Adobe being the only alternative. 

    You don’t even get to choose the iOS update’s flavor, as it will contain the ability to use third-party app stores whether you want it or not. The freedom’s so overwhelming you cannot opt out of it. 
    edited March 20 watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 28
    HedwareHedware Posts: 90member
    AllM said:
    avon b7 said:
    First, Isn't there a precedent? Compare the security of Google's Play Store to Apple's.
    Let's see the numbers. No of malware, spams, etc. o

    Second, what the EU wants is to provide the option for everyone and his dog to upload an app to anyone's phone.
    How the heck does this not raise security concerns? 
    The DMA/DSA is not a security directive per se. 

    Apple used whatever spin it could to try and protect its favourable situation. That is understandable but was never going to win flavour within the EU because it wasn't dealing with the problem the EU was tackling.

    The infamous 'core technology fee' was questionable from the get go. The chances of it passing the sniff test were slim but Apple tried anyway. Very probably rubbing people up the wrong way in the process. 

    However, we have to wait and see how the EU responds officially. 

    You say the EU wants to provide options and that's correct. 

    An option is not an obligation on users in this case. If you have reservations about third party app stores or direct downloads, alternative browsers, different Wallets etc don't use them. 

    I'm sure Apple won't allow you to install something 'accidentally'. 

    FWIW, I would actually ask around and ask people what their experience in this area is like on Android because if it were only half as bad as people here say, those users would be clamoring to get over Apple’s garden wall. 

    That isn't happening, is it? 

    The reality is that there are possibly users wanting to get out but are effectively locked in. After all, those two words have been emailed around at Apple. 

    My last iPhone was an iPhone 4.

    Android flavours ever since and using multiple app stores and direct downloads. 

    Not a single problem. 


    I hate to make it conspiratorial, but doesn’t it look like this Vestager lady is trying to desensitise the users to the possible installation of governmental spyware?

    If they truly wanted to provide options, wouldn’t they make Apple’s App Store a must for every developer? Otherwise, it would adversely affect the users not interested in third-party app stores. Say Adobe decided to only distribute their stuff through their own store. In effect, that would force their customers to use it, switching away from Adobe being the only alternative. 

    In typical socialist manner, you don’t even get to choose the iOS update’s flavor, as it will contain the ability to use third-party app stores whether you want it or not. The freedom’s so overwhelming you cannot opt out of it. 
    Another deluded American who thinks that only European socialist governments do spying on their citizens while overlooking the evidence of the enormous capacity of various US organisations to spy on US and US citizens. 
  • Reply 18 of 28
    aderutteraderutter Posts: 615member
    If Apple aren’t allowed to decide how much they charge their customers (developers) in the EU they should close the EU app store and prevent all 3rd party app stores for iOS.


    edited March 20 igorskywatto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 28
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,423member
    avon b7 said:
    First, Isn't there a precedent? Compare the security of Google's Play Store to Apple's.
    Let's see the numbers. No of malware, spams, etc. 

    Second, what the EU wants is to provide the option for everyone and his dog to upload an app to anyone's phone.
    How the heck does this not raise security concerns? 
    The DMA/DSA is not a security directive per se. 


    Apple used whatever spin it could to try and protect its favourable situation. That is understandable but was never going to win flavour within the EU because it wasn't dealing with the problem the EU was tackling.

    The infamous 'core technology fee' was questionable from the get go. The chances of it passing the sniff test were slim but Apple tried anyway. Very probably rubbing people up the wrong way in the process. 

    However, we have to wait and see how the EU responds officially. 

    You say the EU wants to provide options and that's correct. 

    An option is not an obligation on users in this case. If you have reservations about third party app stores or direct downloads, alternative browsers, different Wallets etc don't use them. 

    I'm sure Apple won't allow you to install something 'accidentally'. 

    FWIW, I would actually ask around and ask people what their experience in this area is like on Android because if it were only half as bad as people here say, those users would be clamoring to get over Apple’s garden wall. 

    That isn't happening, is it? 

    The reality is that there are possibly users wanting to get out but are effectively locked in. After all, those two words have been emailed around at Apple. 

    My last iPhone was an iPhone 4.

    Android flavours ever since and using multiple app stores and direct downloads. 

    Not a single problem. 


    The DMA/DSA is not a security directive per se.
    No shit. The EU has been retrograde in its actions on security, and national security is not even a high priority for the EU.

    It's obvious that security wasn't the directive, nor was the consumer benefit, though I expect that a small percentage will be enthused; it is driven by creating more lucrative opportunities for developers, a profit shift from Apple, and other Big Tech's, to developers.

    An option is not an obligation on users in this case. If you have reservations about third party app stores or direct downloads, alternative browsers, different Wallets etc don't use them. 
    So, why wouldn't there be the option of a single toggle, that allowed the user to "keep my iPhone as it is?". 

    FWIW, I would actually ask around and ask people what their experience in this area is like on Android because if it were only half as bad as people here say, those users would be clamoring to get over Apple’s garden wall. 
    Seems a little late for that, don't you think, and you might not find that it supports your POV. Meanwhile, iPhone continues to increase its user base, now about 1.46 billion.

    The reality is that there are possibly users wanting to get out but are effectively locked in.

    That's really just complete bullshit, isn't it. There are countless opportunities for smartphone users to "switch sides", and I doubt that will be as difficult or intrusive, as the DMA.

    Not a single problem.

    That's hyperbole, at the least, and a complete lie at the most.

    https://unisonbank.com/why-you-shouldnt-download-from-third-party-app-stores/

    In other words, all apps have gone through a security check to ensure the safety of users’ data and devices. On the other hand, third-party sites rarely implement security checks. Third-party app stores not only provide developers with more freedom but also faster speed to market. The approval processes are less strict than the manufacturers, which means approvals are processed much faster. This leaves users’ devices exposed to countless threats. The problem is, some of these apps are exceptionally vulnerable to malware infiltration. For example, in 2016 1.3 million smartphones were attacked by malware. The malware was named “Gooligan,” and according to researchers, it was found in 86 apps. Of course, all of these apps came from third-party sources. Based on the data released by the Android security team this year, you’re about 10 times more likely to have a potentially harmful application on your device if you are using third-party sources.

    Why do you lie?


    edited March 20 igorskywatto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 28
    igorskyigorsky Posts: 760member
    The audacity here is just astounding. “We’re forcing you to make your product less safe, and now it’s your problem to make it safer”.  Just eff off.
    edited March 20 tmayAllMwilliamlondonthtwatto_cobra
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