Bare feats has just posted a comparision update between a dual Xeon 2.4, Pentium 4 3.06 and the Current Apple dual 1.42.
While I haven't done a detailed analysis of the data, on initial glance it appears that a 970 dual 1.8 may stand up very well against the dual Xeon (extrapolated out to 3.06), and then some.
I really hope that this comes together and becomes reality by early July. Can't wait to see some hard real world numbers.
As it stands right now however, I am doubtful I will be able to afford a new top line machine.
Sadly my 800mhz single might have to be replaced by a low end 970 that is only a little over 4 times or so faster or maybe a "slightly" faster mid-range machine.
As it stands right now however, I am doubtful I will be able to afford a new top line machine.
I think they will be afordable. Let me express my logic why...
Apple need customers. If I walked into an Apple Store and I asked a Mac Specialist to show me what Apple has to offer in the pro arena and said "well sir, our highend machine, PowerMac blah blah is not sold in stores because it is to expensive" then I would walk out and not look back.
If Apple do not carry Shake in their stores because it is to expensive (which they should at least have on their demo units...) then they would not carry hardware that is to expensive...
Bare feats has just posted a comparision update between a dual Xeon 2.4, Pentium 4 3.06 and the Current Apple dual 1.42.
While I haven't done a detailed analysis of the data, on initial glance it appears that a 970 dual 1.8 may stand up very well against the dual Xeon (extrapolated out to 3.06), and then some.
I really hope that this comes together and becomes reality by early July. Can't wait to see some hard real world numbers.
As it stands right now however, I am doubtful I will be able to afford a new top line machine.
Sadly my 800mhz single might have to be replaced by a low end 970 that is only a little over 4 times or so faster or maybe a "slightly" faster mid-range machine.
Oh the things we must prepare to suffer with!
Thanks for the link - it is interesting data. I certainly shows that the G4 could be better with a faster FSB. Pity the RapidIO 7457-RM is still a way off. But I agree the 970 will more than make up for it!
I don't think I will ever buy the fastest machine available. (Say) 20% performance improvement or less rarely justifies a 40 % premium for all the 'best' stuff (pulling #s out of the air - no time to check actuals for PC or Mac). I think it is really only the people who have high end apps and critical work schedules that need the top end stuff. I buy at the 'sweet spot' at the time I want to upgrade to get the best bang/buck and so I know I got a good value system. Sure I get over taken a little faster but if I always buy at the same point in a product range I'm not losing anything. So, assuming the new machines are 1.4, 1.6 & 1.8, I'd most likely get a 1.6 machine (and buy extra RAM from someone other than Apple... ).
The latest from MacBidouille (google translation). Hopefully one of our many readers, fluent in French, can provide a clearer english representation.
Quote:
Before coming to the heart of the subject, 3 small things.
1) If you belong to the anti rumour, DO NOT READ WHAT FOLLOWS!
2) Essentially, a rumour is unfounded! Do not make as some which require of me to provide them evidence.
3) the source of these infos is completely different from that of preceding information on the 970. Until now all its information proved to be verdic.
Let us pass to the serious things.
The mother charts PPC 970 would have 6 NCV (PCI slots?) in addition to the AGP and can be a chart Its 5.1. The Bus would be well given rhythm to 200 MHz with support of GDR 3200. (note except rumour: the 6 NCV can explain information on a chart all in length)
According to an internal source with IBM, the PPC 970 much will surprise the public. (the collection of this information is former to the publication of the benchs)
Do I understand this correctly? 6 slots at 200 mhz bus in addition to the AGP when used with PC3200 RAM?
it doesn't really seem like apple could serve a cease and desist order like they usually do. this is just a recounting of benchmarks, not an actual photo or diagram of one of their products. of course, they've done things that they didn't have the right to do before.
Before we come to the heart of the matter, three small items:
1) If you don't care for rumors, DO NOT READ THE FOLLOWING!
2) Essentially, any rumour is unfounded! Don't be like some who insist we provide them proof.
3) The source of this info is completely different from that of the preceding information on the 970. Until now all the information provided by this source has proved to be accurate.
Let us move on to the serious things.
The PPC 970 motherboard will have 6 PCI slots in addition to the AGP and can support a 5.1 (audio?) board. The Bus will be well clocked at 200 MHz with support for PC3200. (Note about the rumor: The 6 slots may explain the information about the motherboard being longer than wide.)
According to an internal source with IBM, the PPC 970 will surprise people very much. (This information was gathered before we published the benchmarks.)
years ago 6 PCI slots was perhaps needed. 2 PCI video cards, a faster SCSI for external drives and so on. Later also IDE cards, USB cards, FW cards... those 6 slots can be filled quite easy.
However, if the AGP support 2 monitor and the motherboard support multchanel sound, 4 IDE disks and two optical drives as well as a resonable number of FW and USB ports, I really have a hard time imagine that you need more than say 3 PCI cards...
Originally from DrBoar: I really have a hard time imagine that you need more than say 3 PCI cards...
Although we're a minority, those of us who work in Audio/Video for TV and Film industry have been dying for more PCI slots for years.
Just with a simple Pro Tools Mix+ System (2 slots), Mix Farm (1 slot), SCSI card (1 slot) we're maxed out - no room for more DSP or a video capture card.
We have a lot of systems like this where I work (75+) and each one of them requires a PCI expansion chasis.
If Apple really wants to continue to court Hollywood, six slots would be a very welcomed thing.
However, if the AGP support 2 monitor and the motherboard support multchanel sound, 4 IDE disks and two optical drives as well as a resonable number of FW and USB ports, I really have a hard time imagine that you need more than say 3 PCI cards...
Yes, but expansion slots are good precisely for the things that are hard to imagine you'll need/want. My Beige G3 is getting a quite an extension on life with the FireWire/USB2.0, 10/100BaseT Ethernet, and SCSI cards I've shoved in there, not to mention the additional 48x CD burner. Thanks to its expansion ability, this machine is still a workhorse years after it might have been put out to pasture.
Who's to say what technologies are coming down the pipe? Even faster FireWire and USB, SerialATA (if we don't get it in the next PM revision), new networking options, etc. And that's in addition to all of the audio/video options the previous poster talked about. 3 PCI slots would certainly be doable, but if Apple feels the need to give us 6, I say bring it on!
Not to rain on anybody's parade, but the Benchmarks are obvious fakes with any number of mistakes. I'm not sure whether MacBidouille hates Apple, or is just in it to make as much money off the hits as it can before reality rears its ugly head, but if you're taking any of their rumors seriously, prepare for *major* disappointment.
IBM really has pulled off a miracle with the 970. The miracle is that it looks like it will have 80% of the performance of a P4 (depending on which benchmark you look at) for less than 1% of the research investment. *That* is massively earthshaking. I cannot think of an chip engineering achievement that even comes close!
The fact that the 970 will not provide the material to allow us to sneer at the P4 users who sneer at us should not be of concern. A better, faster Macintosh will appear in the next 3-8 months and that is cause for celebration.
If the rumour boards are any sign, I wouldn't be suprised if Apple's most significant product announcement since the iMac (whenever it is made) is met with disdain for failing to match impossible expectations.
The Bus will be well clocked at 200 MHz with support for PC3200.
If the bus is only 200Mhz, that would be sad. It has the potential to be double that (450MHz real, 900 double pumped). Everyday these guys post more, I start to believe them less.
IBM really has pulled off a miracle with the 970. The miracle is that it looks like it will have 80% of the performance of a P4 (depending on which benchmark you look at) for less than 1% of the research investment. *That* is massively earthshaking. I cannot think of an chip engineering achievement that even comes close!
1% research investment? *cough*
I'd like to see some documentation on that.
The 970 is no miracle at all. It's the result of alot of R&D done on the POWER 4 (which is nothing to scoff at), and R&D done on itself, helped by motorola, and probably Apple too (anyone?). By comparision to the G4 (which is very real and un-miraculous, as you know), it's a desktop PPC-processor done right. Let's say the G4 offers 40% the performance of a P4. By much less R&D too, and now the G4 is old and almost archaic. It employs a slow, and choking FSB, and is made on an outdated fabrication process, at 180nm.
Now, alot of work has been put into the development of the 970, and they've fixed most that makes the G4 so slow. Deep Out-Of-Order Execution, very fast FSB, a better FPU and double the number of units, and an altivec-unit (which is known to kick P4 ass on code that isn't choked by the FSB). All in all this should double the performance of the G4 in alot of cases, to be conservative.
Still a miracle? I don't think so. I think you should be prepared to be surprised
If the bus is only 200Mhz, that would be sad. It has the potential to be double that (450MHz real, 900 double pumped). Everyday these guys post more, I start to believe them less.
I believe they mean the memory bus. That is, DDR400 memory.
Comments
While I haven't done a detailed analysis of the data, on initial glance it appears that a 970 dual 1.8 may stand up very well against the dual Xeon (extrapolated out to 3.06), and then some.
http://www.barefeats.com/pentium4.html
I really hope that this comes together and becomes reality by early July. Can't wait to see some hard real world numbers.
As it stands right now however, I am doubtful I will be able to afford a new top line machine.
Sadly my 800mhz single might have to be replaced by a low end 970 that is only a little over 4 times or so faster
Oh the things we must prepare to suffer with!
Originally posted by Shaktai
As it stands right now however, I am doubtful I will be able to afford a new top line machine.
I think they will be afordable. Let me express my logic why...
Apple need customers. If I walked into an Apple Store and I asked a Mac Specialist to show me what Apple has to offer in the pro arena and said "well sir, our highend machine, PowerMac blah blah is not sold in stores because it is to expensive" then I would walk out and not look back.
If Apple do not carry Shake in their stores because it is to expensive (which they should at least have on their demo units...) then they would not carry hardware that is to expensive...
Besides, like I said, Apple need customers.
Originally posted by Shaktai
Bare feats has just posted a comparision update between a dual Xeon 2.4, Pentium 4 3.06 and the Current Apple dual 1.42.
While I haven't done a detailed analysis of the data, on initial glance it appears that a 970 dual 1.8 may stand up very well against the dual Xeon (extrapolated out to 3.06), and then some.
http://www.barefeats.com/pentium4.html
I really hope that this comes together and becomes reality by early July. Can't wait to see some hard real world numbers.
As it stands right now however, I am doubtful I will be able to afford a new top line machine.
Sadly my 800mhz single might have to be replaced by a low end 970 that is only a little over 4 times or so faster
Oh the things we must prepare to suffer with!
Thanks for the link - it is interesting data. I certainly shows that the G4 could be better with a faster FSB. Pity the RapidIO 7457-RM is still a way off.
I don't think I will ever buy the fastest machine available. (Say) 20% performance improvement or less rarely justifies a 40 % premium for all the 'best' stuff (pulling #s out of the air - no time to check actuals for PC or Mac). I think it is really only the people who have high end apps and critical work schedules that need the top end stuff. I buy at the 'sweet spot' at the time I want to upgrade to get the best bang/buck and so I know I got a good value system. Sure I get over taken a little faster but if I always buy at the same point in a product range I'm not losing anything. So, assuming the new machines are 1.4, 1.6 & 1.8, I'd most likely get a 1.6 machine (and buy extra RAM from someone other than Apple...
MM
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
Could you please install Doom II or something? I like framerates!
I'm not sure a ATI-Rage XL controller w/ 8MB of SDRAM would do very well
Before coming to the heart of the subject, 3 small things.
1) If you belong to the anti rumour, DO NOT READ WHAT FOLLOWS!
2) Essentially, a rumour is unfounded! Do not make as some which require of me to provide them evidence.
3) the source of these infos is completely different from that of preceding information on the 970. Until now all its information proved to be verdic.
Let us pass to the serious things.
The mother charts PPC 970 would have 6 NCV (PCI slots?) in addition to the AGP and can be a chart Its 5.1. The Bus would be well given rhythm to 200 MHz with support of GDR 3200. (note except rumour: the 6 NCV can explain information on a chart all in length)
According to an internal source with IBM, the PPC 970 much will surprise the public. (the collection of this information is former to the publication of the benchs)
Do I understand this correctly? 6 slots at 200 mhz bus in addition to the AGP when used with PC3200 RAM?
Yousa!!!!!!
Originally posted by Shaktai
The latest from MacBidouille (google translation). Hopefully one of our many readers, fluent in French, can provide a clearer english representation.
Do I understand this correctly? 6 slots at 200 mhz bus in addition to the AGP when used with PC3200 RAM?
Yousa!!!!!!
I'll give it a stab...
Avant d'en arriver au coeur du sujet, 3 petites choses.
1) Si vous faites partie des anti rumeur, NE LISEZ PAS CE QUI SUIT !
2) Par essence, une rumeur est infondée ! Ne faites pas comme certains qui me demandent de leur fournir des preuves.
3) La source de ces infos est totalement différente de celle des précédentes informations sur le 970. Jusqu'Ã* maintenant toutes ses informations se sont avérées vérdiques.
Passons aux choses sérieuses.
Les cartes mères PPC 970 auraient 6 PCI en plus de l'AGP et peut être une carte Son 5.1. Le Bus serait bien cadencé Ã* 200 MHz avec support de la DDR 3200. (note hors rumeur: les 6 PCI peuvent expliquer les informations sur une carte toute en longueur)
Selon une source interne Ã* IBM, le PPC 970 va beaucoup surprendre le public. (la collecte de ces informations est antérieure Ã* la publication des benchs).
Before we come to the heart of the matter, three small items:
1) If you don't care for rumors, DO NOT READ THE FOLLOWING!
2) Essentially, any rumour is unfounded! Don't be like some who insist we provide them proof.
3) The source of this info is completely different from that of the preceding information on the 970. Until now all the information provided by this source has proved to be accurate.
Let us move on to the serious things.
The PPC 970 motherboard will have 6 PCI slots in addition to the AGP and can support a 5.1 (audio?) board. The Bus will be well clocked at 200 MHz with support for PC3200. (Note about the rumor: The 6 slots may explain the information about the motherboard being longer than wide.)
According to an internal source with IBM, the PPC 970 will surprise people very much. (This information was gathered before we published the benchmarks.)
years ago 6 PCI slots was perhaps needed. 2 PCI video cards, a faster SCSI for external drives and so on. Later also IDE cards, USB cards, FW cards... those 6 slots can be filled quite easy.
However, if the AGP support 2 monitor and the motherboard support multchanel sound, 4 IDE disks and two optical drives as well as a resonable number of FW and USB ports, I really have a hard time imagine that you need more than say 3 PCI cards...
Originally from DrBoar: I really have a hard time imagine that you need more than say 3 PCI cards...
Although we're a minority, those of us who work in Audio/Video for TV and Film industry have been dying for more PCI slots for years.
Just with a simple Pro Tools Mix+ System (2 slots), Mix Farm (1 slot), SCSI card (1 slot) we're maxed out - no room for more DSP or a video capture card.
We have a lot of systems like this where I work (75+) and each one of them requires a PCI expansion chasis.
If Apple really wants to continue to court Hollywood, six slots would be a very welcomed thing.
Originally posted by DrBoar
However, if the AGP support 2 monitor and the motherboard support multchanel sound, 4 IDE disks and two optical drives as well as a resonable number of FW and USB ports, I really have a hard time imagine that you need more than say 3 PCI cards...
Yes, but expansion slots are good precisely for the things that are hard to imagine you'll need/want. My Beige G3 is getting a quite an extension on life with the FireWire/USB2.0, 10/100BaseT Ethernet, and SCSI cards I've shoved in there, not to mention the additional 48x CD burner. Thanks to its expansion ability, this machine is still a workhorse years after it might have been put out to pasture.
Who's to say what technologies are coming down the pipe? Even faster FireWire and USB, SerialATA (if we don't get it in the next PM revision), new networking options, etc. And that's in addition to all of the audio/video options the previous poster talked about. 3 PCI slots would certainly be doable, but if Apple feels the need to give us 6, I say bring it on!
IBM really has pulled off a miracle with the 970. The miracle is that it looks like it will have 80% of the performance of a P4 (depending on which benchmark you look at) for less than 1% of the research investment. *That* is massively earthshaking. I cannot think of an chip engineering achievement that even comes close!
The fact that the 970 will not provide the material to allow us to sneer at the P4 users who sneer at us should not be of concern. A better, faster Macintosh will appear in the next 3-8 months and that is cause for celebration.
If the rumour boards are any sign, I wouldn't be suprised if Apple's most significant product announcement since the iMac (whenever it is made) is met with disdain for failing to match impossible expectations.
5.1 Audio: about time, if it's true. Even if the next PowerMac architecture was awesome, stereo only would let it down.
The Bus will be well clocked at 200 MHz with support for PC3200.
If the bus is only 200Mhz, that would be sad. It has the potential to be double that (450MHz real, 900 double pumped). Everyday these guys post more, I start to believe them less.
Originally posted by Tom West
IBM really has pulled off a miracle with the 970. The miracle is that it looks like it will have 80% of the performance of a P4 (depending on which benchmark you look at) for less than 1% of the research investment. *That* is massively earthshaking. I cannot think of an chip engineering achievement that even comes close!
1% research investment? *cough*
I'd like to see some documentation on that.
The 970 is no miracle at all. It's the result of alot of R&D done on the POWER 4 (which is nothing to scoff at), and R&D done on itself, helped by motorola, and probably Apple too (anyone?). By comparision to the G4 (which is very real and un-miraculous, as you know), it's a desktop PPC-processor done right. Let's say the G4 offers 40% the performance of a P4. By much less R&D too, and now the G4 is old and almost archaic. It employs a slow, and choking FSB, and is made on an outdated fabrication process, at 180nm.
Now, alot of work has been put into the development of the 970, and they've fixed most that makes the G4 so slow. Deep Out-Of-Order Execution, very fast FSB, a better FPU and double the number of units, and an altivec-unit (which is known to kick P4 ass on code that isn't choked by the FSB). All in all this should double the performance of the G4 in alot of cases, to be conservative.
Still a miracle? I don't think so. I think you should be prepared to be surprised
Originally posted by kupan787
If the bus is only 200Mhz, that would be sad. It has the potential to be double that (450MHz real, 900 double pumped). Everyday these guys post more, I start to believe them less.
I believe they mean the memory bus. That is, DDR400 memory.
michael
Originally posted by keyboardf12
200mhz PCI bus unless i am mistaken. the speed in which the cards talk to the motherboard.
Ya know, Toshiba has a 400 mhz PCI slot already... (just mentioning)
Six slots? Not in a dektop model, but the XStation rack mount? Now you're talking.
5.1 Audio? Absolutely