Seriously, the plurality of Verbatim support in here isn't coincidence. If you need reliability and durabilitym go with Verbatim DataLife CD-Rs. Not only are they reliable, they have nice vinyl top-sides instead of that flaky metal/foil reflective layer.
If you want the same CD-Rs with plain silver/plastic finishing on top, get the Yamaha DiscT@2 disks.
Anders is mistaken if he thinks these statements are contradictory, though the second is stylistically uncommon.
You are mistaken if you think these say the same thing.
For clarity, I will re-state them:
"Higher quality is a better value"
"Price is the only consideration: cheap is good, cheapest is best"
The second statement (above) is not "stylistically uncommon"; it is in fact commonly held. It is your inverted interpretation that is uncommon (to say the least).
Quote:
Concerning the converse statements above, it's true that "if A then B" doesn't always allow for "if B then A," but not in this case or the one below.
"The PC is the cheaper option."
"The cheaper is the PC option."
Attempting to persuade via the negative (as you do here) is difficult at best (because hard to follow). To clarify: the statements you quote here (PC|cheaper) ARE logically & semantically equivalent (A = == (B = A); the earlier two you allude to ARE NOT equivalent at all.
Capt. Obvious, you would be absolutely correct if there was only one way to expand "The cheapest is the best," however "Price is the only consideration: cheap is good, cheapest is best" is not the only way.
It is not definitive as it can also be interpreted as
"The cheapest option in the long run is the best media."
It's not pretty, but it works. That was my point to begin with...I thought it was obvious. The point is converse statements are neither always right nor wrong.
Capt. Obvious, you would be absolutely correct if there was only one way to expand "The cheapest is the best," however "Price is the only consideration: cheap is good, cheapest is best" is not the only way.
It is not definitive as it can also be interpreted as
"The cheapest option in the long run is the best media."
It's not pretty, but it works. That was my point to begin with...I thought it was obvious. The point is converse statements are neither always right nor wrong.
Here's a thought experiment: your boss sends you to Office Warehouse for a new printer; you ask him what he wants, he says "cheapest is best"; you come back w/ a kinko's-grade collating color laser printer; you hand him the receipt, he cusses you out fiercely & fires you; you protest that you did what he told you to do, he retorts that you did not - that only an idiot would have interpreted his instructions the way you did.
My point is that common usage is a factor; almost any string of words CAN be twisted around to mean what one wants them to mean (or did Bill Clinton actually enlighten us as to the meaning of "is"?), but it's hard to make a supporting argument in the face of commonly-understood usage: "cheapest is best" CAN take on the sense you impose, but to do so it must be deliberately misconstrued, NewSpeak-style.
My final point: aphorisms are not syllogisms; treating themas if they were is exactly the sort of deliberate misconstruction I mentioned. Ultimately, it's logic itself that gets misconstrued (and therefore misapplied).
And, to be crystal clear: I hope you keep your job! 8)
Does anyone know if Verbatim makes a 24 Minute/210MB 8cm CD-R or CD-RW? Their website shows only a smaller capacity 21 Minute/185MB version though the TDK website says the same and I know they make one because I have a spindle in front of me.
Since when is common usage a factor is determining whether something absolutely is or is not?
Since when is the real world NOT a factor?
Once again: aphorism !== syllogism. Your insistence that two distinct aphorisms positing easily-distinguishable hierarchical relationships are in fact equivalent symbolic constructs - and therefore are somehow making the same point - has led you to an impasse. At this point, claiming a quest for absolutes (and other academic tail-chasings) won't help you. The door may be ajar, but that don't mean there's jam in it.
So does anyone know if Verbatim offers the smaller Mini CD-R or CD-RW media in a 24 Minute/210MB capacity? TDK does though you will find little or no evidence on the internet of this fact. I'm hoping this is also true for Verbatim as well. Sounds like it is the most reliable not that TDK is bad or anything. Anyone know? All I can find is the 21 Minute/185MB Capacity so far.
Very different from the untrue statement "the cheapest is the best"
Anders implies the statement is untrue when it is clearly ambiguous and vague. It doesn't matter how popular one evaluation is over the other. It doesn't change the fact that there is more than one way to interpret it. Your vocabulary can't overcome that.
If I were to say "the cheapest is the best," what would you assume I meant by that, especially if with a particular inflection in my voice?
It's also funny how you attempt to invoke 'common usage' to your advantage when Anders most likely read xionja's statement in a way opposed to her intention.
macintouch.com did a reader survey a couple of years ago, and one key appears to be the dye used in the actual CD reflective side.
so, for example, if you can hold the CD up to the light and see THRU it, don't bother. cheap as cheap can be. it may burn okay on the front end, but actually degarde faster on the shelf, and minor scratches will cause major difficulty in reading data.
verbatim apparently has a patent on the blue-dye that they use, though i don't know how legit that claim is.
again, this is based off a lot of people's personal opinions and rumors, but i have since stuck with verbatim, and they have never failed me.
dvd-r's are another matter, though. they seem to be stuck at the reliability level that cd-r's were 4-5 years ago. and i just don't know many people who use cd-rw's, due to their increased cost, slower burn speed, and the fact that cd-rw's can only be re-burned so many times before they fail (though that number may be substantial these days).
funny part is thread with the same premise just a year or so ago had a much wider range of suggestions, although i've been suggesting Verbatim exclusively for almost 7 years now.
glad to see others have experienced the same results.
I just bought a spindle of the Verbatim Digital Vinyl CD-Rs and I was pleasantly surprised to see the deep blue dye instead of the light blue my other Verbatims have.
Verbatim seems to be a subsidiary of Mitsubishi Chemical so I'm pretty sure these are the same as the Yamaha discs I've been using.
I specifically recommend the Verbatim Digital Vinyl CD-Rs even though they're only rated for 16x burning.
I can weigh in on CDs here. I don't have much experience with Verbatim since they are usually not sold in spindles from what I have seen. I have gone through LOTS of CDs in my day. I used to be heavily into warez and moviez and such. I usually used Memorex. Though most of my CDrs are only a couple years old so I can't comment on the longevity of Memorex, I'll say this. Failed burns all depend on the spindle. The most failed burns I've gotten on one Memorex spindle has been ~8. Most of the time I go through the spindle without one failed burn. I've even used the Memorex black CDrs a couple times. And I've gone through a lot of 100 CD spindles. I've also used imation and a couple no-name brands. I have to say though that the one memorex spindle that had ~8 coasters was the most I've ever gotten. And a couple of times my failed burns were due to hard drives being too fragmented (damn Windows ...) I can tell this because 2 CD-rs would fail in the same exact spot on the same exact file twice in a row. And it would burn the third CD-r once I moved the file to a less fragmented drive. (I had an 80GB drive that was more than 69% fragmented)
Comments
Originally posted by thuh Freak
i've always thought sony was the best brand...
Seriously, the plurality of Verbatim support in here isn't coincidence. If you need reliability and durabilitym go with Verbatim DataLife CD-Rs. Not only are they reliable, they have nice vinyl top-sides instead of that flaky metal/foil reflective layer.
If you want the same CD-Rs with plain silver/plastic finishing on top, get the Yamaha DiscT@2 disks.
Originally posted by Eugene
"The best is the cheapest."
"The cheapest is the best."
Anders is mistaken if he thinks these statements are contradictory, though the second is stylistically uncommon.
You are mistaken if you think these say the same thing.
For clarity, I will re-state them:
"Higher quality is a better value"
"Price is the only consideration: cheap is good, cheapest is best"
The second statement (above) is not "stylistically uncommon"; it is in fact commonly held. It is your inverted interpretation that is uncommon (to say the least).
Concerning the converse statements above, it's true that "if A then B" doesn't always allow for "if B then A," but not in this case or the one below.
"The PC is the cheaper option."
"The cheaper is the PC option."
Attempting to persuade via the negative (as you do here) is difficult at best (because hard to follow). To clarify: the statements you quote here (PC|cheaper) ARE logically & semantically equivalent (A =
(A >
It is not definitive as it can also be interpreted as
"The cheapest option in the long run is the best media."
It's not pretty, but it works. That was my point to begin with...I thought it was obvious. The point is converse statements are neither always right nor wrong.
Originally posted by Eugene
Capt. Obvious, you would be absolutely correct if there was only one way to expand "The cheapest is the best," however "Price is the only consideration: cheap is good, cheapest is best" is not the only way.
It is not definitive as it can also be interpreted as
"The cheapest option in the long run is the best media."
It's not pretty, but it works. That was my point to begin with...I thought it was obvious. The point is converse statements are neither always right nor wrong.
Here's a thought experiment: your boss sends you to Office Warehouse for a new printer; you ask him what he wants, he says "cheapest is best"; you come back w/ a kinko's-grade collating color laser printer; you hand him the receipt, he cusses you out fiercely & fires you; you protest that you did what he told you to do, he retorts that you did not - that only an idiot would have interpreted his instructions the way you did.
My point is that common usage is a factor; almost any string of words CAN be twisted around to mean what one wants them to mean (or did Bill Clinton actually enlighten us as to the meaning of "is"?), but it's hard to make a supporting argument in the face of commonly-understood usage: "cheapest is best" CAN take on the sense you impose, but to do so it must be deliberately misconstrued, NewSpeak-style.
My final point: aphorisms are not syllogisms; treating themas if they were is exactly the sort of deliberate misconstruction I mentioned. Ultimately, it's logic itself that gets misconstrued (and therefore misapplied).
And, to be crystal clear: I hope you keep your job! 8)
Does anyone know if Verbatim makes a 24 Minute/210MB 8cm CD-R or CD-RW? Their website shows only a smaller capacity 21 Minute/185MB version though the TDK website says the same and I know they make one because I have a spindle in front of me.
Originally posted by Eugene
Since when is common usage a factor is determining whether something absolutely is or is not?
Since when is the real world NOT a factor?
Once again: aphorism !== syllogism. Your insistence that two distinct aphorisms positing easily-distinguishable hierarchical relationships are in fact equivalent symbolic constructs - and therefore are somehow making the same point - has led you to an impasse. At this point, claiming a quest for absolutes (and other academic tail-chasings) won't help you. The door may be ajar, but that don't mean there's jam in it.
Sorry about your job....
Originally posted by Capt. Obvious
Since when is the real world NOT a factor?
...
blah blah blah
I edited my message for a reason.
This is the basis for my argument:
Very different from the untrue statement "the cheapest is the best"
Anders implies the statement is untrue when it is clearly ambiguous and vague. It doesn't matter how popular one evaluation is over the other. It doesn't change the fact that there is more than one way to interpret it. Your vocabulary can't overcome that.
If I were to say "the cheapest is the best," what would you assume I meant by that, especially if with a particular inflection in my voice?
Perhaps its time for the annually "Correct Anders´english week"
macintouch.com did a reader survey a couple of years ago, and one key appears to be the dye used in the actual CD reflective side.
so, for example, if you can hold the CD up to the light and see THRU it, don't bother. cheap as cheap can be. it may burn okay on the front end, but actually degarde faster on the shelf, and minor scratches will cause major difficulty in reading data.
verbatim apparently has a patent on the blue-dye that they use, though i don't know how legit that claim is.
again, this is based off a lot of people's personal opinions and rumors, but i have since stuck with verbatim, and they have never failed me.
dvd-r's are another matter, though. they seem to be stuck at the reliability level that cd-r's were 4-5 years ago. and i just don't know many people who use cd-rw's, due to their increased cost, slower burn speed, and the fact that cd-rw's can only be re-burned so many times before they fail (though that number may be substantial these days).
Originally posted by burningwheel
are Fuji any good?
Fuji uses several different Taiwanese manufacturers, so they are hit or miss. You just need to do a little bit of investigation...
I'll buy Verbatim next time!
glad to see others have experienced the same results.
Does anyone have any other reliable yet inexpensive brands they would recommend?
Originally posted by Paul
yeah i saw those vinyl CDRs also, very cool
I just bought a spindle of the Verbatim Digital Vinyl CD-Rs and I was pleasantly surprised to see the deep blue dye instead of the light blue my other Verbatims have.
Verbatim seems to be a subsidiary of Mitsubishi Chemical so I'm pretty sure these are the same as the Yamaha discs I've been using.
I specifically recommend the Verbatim Digital Vinyl CD-Rs even though they're only rated for 16x burning.