The Register has said many, many things about Apple over the past year and I cannot remember anything to be correct.
On to hard evidence:
Apple likes to do a major update every year, yet it's been 18 months.
Apple is clearing stock the same way it did before the Power to Burn Power Macs in 2001.
The Xserve uses DDR-SDRAM and ATA-100.
There was a prototype Apple logicboard on eBay with FireWire 2, ATA RAID, and DDR-SDRAM onboard (and *apparently* G4s with DDR MPX buses).
If I had to put money on it, I would think that at least a logicboard update is in order.
The question is, how big an update, will a new CPU (updated G4 or Something Completely Different?) surface, and will we finally get a 2nd optical drive bay ?
I believe The Register’s article is a simple smokescreen. I believe we’ll see the G5 debut in July.
You can believe one thing—that Apple will surprise us. It may be a bad surprise, or it could be a surprise that exceeds our most optimistic hopes, but Apple always surprises. You can count on that!
<strong>Apple likes to do a major update every year, yet it's been 18 months.</strong><hr></blockquote>Dear Barto & Friends
It was September 1999 when Apple introduced the first Power Mac G4. Apple is full of new blood now. I believe the next pro Mac desktop will bear the G5 moniker, whether it fits our schema of a G5 or not.
Its nearly impossible to prove a negative. Prove that the Xserve is not using a 7470 CPU (notice the Xserve has not shipped yet). Prove that the mobo on eBay is not a 7470-compatible MPX+ DDR RAM mobo (it is certainly not an Xserve-style mobo unless Apple is making 4U versions with 4 PCI and AirPort).
Frankly I don't care until Steve Jobs walks out on stage and starts talking. Up to that point they could be rumored to have the UFO from Roswell in a "secret Apple lab" and be developing time traveling anti-gravity hover disks with glowing Apple logo and it would not be something I would be expecting anyway.
When someone gets an Xserve one of the first things they will do is slide it open and remove the heat sink to read the part number of the G4 to prove/disprove what it is.
Right now it shares the fate of Shroedinger's Cat [look it up].
This article isn't very convincing. In particular, the bus speeds are extremely vague and give the impression of someone predicting everything and anything that may happen, so that when Apple does update their bus the Register looks as if they knew something in advance, when they actually didn't.
I desperately hope that Apple doesn't use the XServe DDR solution in the next powermacs, it would be a total PR disaster if Apple introduced DDR but kept the same damn frontside bus bottleneck. One possibility is that Apple wanted the XServe out in time for the edu buying season this year, and so they had to use CPUs that are currently available--thus the need for the DDR hack solution.
New G5s that support a true DDR frontside bus, if announced at MWNY, may not even ship in quantity until September. This would give Motorola plenty more time to get their sorry asses in gear, and Apple would be able to implement a true DDR solution.
We know that the G4's clockspeed can be boosted to around 1.2 GHz even with today's chips (it is not uncommon to overclock a 1 GHz G4 to 1.2 GHz). Thus, 1.4 GHz and even 1.5 GHZ on a new 130 nm process is believable.
My question is, what will Apple do with bus speed? Are they going to drag their *** and give us a lame 133 MHz frontside bus that supports DDR RAM? If Apple gets G4s that actually will support a DDR frontside bus, then Apple has to choose between 133 and 166 MHz speeds. I'm hopefully optimistic that Apple will go with the 166 frontside bus (333 MHz DDR RAM). This would allow Apple to keep the iMac's specs competitive while not trampling over the Powermac's specs and performance.
The iMac will probably get DDR RAM sometime this year or MWSF at the latest, if so, then Apple could give it 266 Mhz DDR RAM and keep the Powermacs at 333 MHz DDR RAM...alternatively, Apple could use 266 MHz DDR RAM in both the iMac and the Powermacs, and use only CPU speed to differentiate between the two desktop systems.
As for the G5, it's all bullsh!t, all of it. I don't believe we will EVER see the G5...in it's place we'll see Motorola shrinking the G4's process below 130 nm, adding support for rapidIO, and generally dragging their pathetic *** on EVERYTHING to maintain Apple's total inability to compete with Wintel performance.
I desperately hope that Apple doesn't use the XServe DDR solution in the next powermacs, it would be a total PR disaster if Apple introduced DDR but kept the same damn frontside bus bottleneck. One possibility is that Apple wanted the XServe out in time for the edu buying season this year, and so they had to use CPUs that are currently available--thus the need for the DDR hack solution.
[QB]<hr></blockquote>
Just thought I'd briefly chime in here 'cause hey, it's been a while and I need the love ...
I 'spose the big reason why Apple brought out the XServe months ahead of school buying season is most likely to safely ramp things up. Steve said they're "Humble" about the whole affair, and that they've got some learnin' to do on this whole server business ... so, better to catch the gotcha's with some fair lead time right now, than when September comes around ... even if that means releasing an Xserve without a 7470.
Hell that's my guess.
And now, back to your regulairly scheduled speculation ...
another reason why the Xserve may be using the 7455 instead of the 7470 is beause 1 servers should be run on tester hardware, and 2 they are anticipaing these Xserve machines to FLY off the shelves (no pun intended) because people are filling entire racks with them...because of this, using a chip that they know they can get in quantity (IE 7455, 1GHz) would be the best idea...
<strong>Prove that the Xserve is not using a 7470 CPU (notice the Xserve has not shipped yet). </strong><hr></blockquote>
The Xserve presentation quite clearly showed a 1 GB/sec memory bandwidth to the G4 processor(s), and it is rated at 1 GHz. If this is a new processor, it is awfully similar to the 7455!!
Jaddie: It was tech demoed in september, it was finalized early 2000.
Programmer: I put asterikes around *apparently* because I am a bit skeptical, and there was no proof.
zaz: The prototype wasn't rectangular, but the slots match up with current cases. It is possible that the Xserve's IC can handle MPX and DDR-MPX in preperation for DDR-MPX CPUs (if they exist).
Junkyard Dog: Like you said, sounds much like a mac-user making predictions. No technical stuff, just "nEXT g4 wILL be DDZR 2 sHoWz YoU All!" with better english.
Updates to the G4 are probably forthcoming, but after that my crystal ball(s) gets misty. Motorola SPS seems to be going down the gurgler, with Motorola's CEO threatening to sell them off. Motorola's chip plants seem to be using dodgier techniques to save money.
The G5 simply refers to a 5th generation PowerPC, and Apple shows no signs of abandoning the PowerPC. Even if Apple announced tomorrow it was, it would take 2-3 years in preperation and 1-2 years in transition.
If Apple doesn't stay with the PowerPC, but there is a next gen PPC in the meantime or if they choose to stay with the PPC, that means that there is a G5, regardless of what they call it. Why? The G5 isn't a chip on the Motorola Roadmap, it simply refers to "Generation 5 PowerPC".
The questions are as follows:
Who will design the chip; Motorola, Apple, IBM, AMD? Will Apple fund it's development? What technologies will be incorperated? Will it be an effecient chip like the G3, or will it be a "cram everything we can onto the core" chip like the Athlon? Who will make the chip; Motorola, IBM, TSCM, UMC? [EDIT: Oops, I forgot When will the chip debut?]
I believe The Register’s article is a simple smokescreen. I believe we’ll see the G5 debut in July.
You can believe one thing—that Apple will surprise us. It may be a bad surprise, or it could be a surprise that exceeds our most optimistic hopes, but Apple always surprises. You can count on that!
Jaddie is predicting a G5 in July, but I'm null on that with null and others. To the extent that Macworld magazine is a sort of surrogate Apple voice--a cheerleader in journalistic plaid--it's clear from their last two issues that the non-embedded G5 is just a melody imagined in someone's head. We won't see it for a while (if ever).
As to the REAL July, here it is:
Worst case scenario: mini G4 bumps with the same pathetic bus that The Dawg is barking about.
Best case scenario: innovative mobo design with some curious unforeseen tricks and modestly bumped G4 processors in dual or quad configurations.
----------------------------------
Either way, the Sybaritic girl is buying in Nashvegas.
Like Scottie said in the outer reaches of warp nine: "Captain! She can't hold out much longer!"
<strong>Right now it shares the fate of Shroedinger's Cat [look it up].</strong><hr></blockquote>
hehe. That was a blast from the past. Last time I heard reference made to that was back when I was still doing High school chemistry, which is a long time back now.
Best teacher I ever had my senior Chemistry teacher and that includes some stiff competition from an excellent Engineering ethics lecturer I had at uni.
Anyway sorry to interrupt please return to your regular musings
JYD> I desperately hope that Apple doesn't use the XServe DDR solution in the next powermacs, it would be a total PR disaster if Apple introduced DDR but kept the same damn frontside bus bottleneck
So if apple does that, they're screwed, but athlon, p4 mobos pulling exactly the same stunt, you don't complain about that?
Comments
On to hard evidence:
Apple likes to do a major update every year, yet it's been 18 months.
Apple is clearing stock the same way it did before the Power to Burn Power Macs in 2001.
The Xserve uses DDR-SDRAM and ATA-100.
There was a prototype Apple logicboard on eBay with FireWire 2, ATA RAID, and DDR-SDRAM onboard (and *apparently* G4s with DDR MPX buses).
If I had to put money on it, I would think that at least a logicboard update is in order.
The question is, how big an update, will a new CPU (updated G4 or Something Completely Different?) surface, and will we finally get a 2nd optical drive bay
Barto
I believe The Register’s article is a simple smokescreen. I believe we’ll see the G5 debut in July.
You can believe one thing—that Apple will surprise us. It may be a bad surprise, or it could be a surprise that exceeds our most optimistic hopes, but Apple always surprises. You can count on that!
Sincerely,
Jaddie
<a href="http://www.macjournals.com"; target="_blank">MDJ Reader</a>
I believe every word that man said, because it's exactly what I wanted to hear!
Hmm... does he shampoo...?
<strong>Apple likes to do a major update every year, yet it's been 18 months.</strong><hr></blockquote>Dear Barto & Friends
It was September 1999 when Apple introduced the first Power Mac G4. Apple is full of new blood now. I believe the next pro Mac desktop will bear the G5 moniker, whether it fits our schema of a G5 or not.
Sincerely,
Jaddie
<strong>(and *apparently* G4s with DDR MPX buses)</strong><hr></blockquote>
There was no evidence of this. That prototype could have been purely an Xserve-style motherboard.
Frankly I don't care until Steve Jobs walks out on stage and starts talking. Up to that point they could be rumored to have the UFO from Roswell in a "secret Apple lab" and be developing time traveling anti-gravity hover disks with glowing Apple logo and it would not be something I would be expecting anyway.
When someone gets an Xserve one of the first things they will do is slide it open and remove the heat sink to read the part number of the G4 to prove/disprove what it is.
Right now it shares the fate of Shroedinger's Cat [look it up].
<strong>
There was no evidence of this. That prototype could have been purely an Xserve-style motherboard.</strong><hr></blockquote>
However, the entire form factor was different so it would at least require a case revision.
It would seem like a waste to redesign the whole board only to use the same chipset.
but I do agree, in all my newb-ness, that nothing on the board indicated what chipsets were in use.
I desperately hope that Apple doesn't use the XServe DDR solution in the next powermacs, it would be a total PR disaster if Apple introduced DDR but kept the same damn frontside bus bottleneck. One possibility is that Apple wanted the XServe out in time for the edu buying season this year, and so they had to use CPUs that are currently available--thus the need for the DDR hack solution.
New G5s that support a true DDR frontside bus, if announced at MWNY, may not even ship in quantity until September. This would give Motorola plenty more time to get their sorry asses in gear, and Apple would be able to implement a true DDR solution.
We know that the G4's clockspeed can be boosted to around 1.2 GHz even with today's chips (it is not uncommon to overclock a 1 GHz G4 to 1.2 GHz). Thus, 1.4 GHz and even 1.5 GHZ on a new 130 nm process is believable.
My question is, what will Apple do with bus speed? Are they going to drag their *** and give us a lame 133 MHz frontside bus that supports DDR RAM? If Apple gets G4s that actually will support a DDR frontside bus, then Apple has to choose between 133 and 166 MHz speeds. I'm hopefully optimistic that Apple will go with the 166 frontside bus (333 MHz DDR RAM). This would allow Apple to keep the iMac's specs competitive while not trampling over the Powermac's specs and performance.
The iMac will probably get DDR RAM sometime this year or MWSF at the latest, if so, then Apple could give it 266 Mhz DDR RAM and keep the Powermacs at 333 MHz DDR RAM...alternatively, Apple could use 266 MHz DDR RAM in both the iMac and the Powermacs, and use only CPU speed to differentiate between the two desktop systems.
As for the G5, it's all bullsh!t, all of it. I don't believe we will EVER see the G5...in it's place we'll see Motorola shrinking the G4's process below 130 nm, adding support for rapidIO, and generally dragging their pathetic *** on EVERYTHING to maintain Apple's total inability to compete with Wintel performance.
[QB]
I desperately hope that Apple doesn't use the XServe DDR solution in the next powermacs, it would be a total PR disaster if Apple introduced DDR but kept the same damn frontside bus bottleneck. One possibility is that Apple wanted the XServe out in time for the edu buying season this year, and so they had to use CPUs that are currently available--thus the need for the DDR hack solution.
[QB]<hr></blockquote>
Just thought I'd briefly chime in here 'cause hey, it's been a while and I need the love ...
I 'spose the big reason why Apple brought out the XServe months ahead of school buying season is most likely to safely ramp things up. Steve said they're "Humble" about the whole affair, and that they've got some learnin' to do on this whole server business ... so, better to catch the gotcha's with some fair lead time right now, than when September comes around ... even if that means releasing an Xserve without a 7470.
Hell that's my guess.
And now, back to your regulairly scheduled speculation ...
just a thought
<strong>Prove that the Xserve is not using a 7470 CPU (notice the Xserve has not shipped yet). </strong><hr></blockquote>
The Xserve presentation quite clearly showed a 1 GB/sec memory bandwidth to the G4 processor(s), and it is rated at 1 GHz. If this is a new processor, it is awfully similar to the 7455!!
Programmer: I put asterikes around *apparently* because I am a bit skeptical, and there was no proof.
zaz: The prototype wasn't rectangular, but the slots match up with current cases. It is possible that the Xserve's IC can handle MPX and DDR-MPX in preperation for DDR-MPX CPUs (if they exist).
Junkyard Dog: Like you said, sounds much like a mac-user making predictions. No technical stuff, just "nEXT g4 wILL be DDZR 2 sHoWz YoU All!" with better english.
Updates to the G4 are probably forthcoming, but after that my crystal ball(s) gets misty. Motorola SPS seems to be going down the gurgler, with Motorola's CEO threatening to sell them off. Motorola's chip plants seem to be using dodgier techniques to save money.
The G5 simply refers to a 5th generation PowerPC, and Apple shows no signs of abandoning the PowerPC. Even if Apple announced tomorrow it was, it would take 2-3 years in preperation and 1-2 years in transition.
If Apple doesn't stay with the PowerPC, but there is a next gen PPC in the meantime or if they choose to stay with the PPC, that means that there is a G5, regardless of what they call it. Why? The G5 isn't a chip on the Motorola Roadmap, it simply refers to "Generation 5 PowerPC".
The questions are as follows:
Who will design the chip; Motorola, Apple, IBM, AMD? Will Apple fund it's development? What technologies will be incorperated? Will it be an effecient chip like the G3, or will it be a "cram everything we can onto the core" chip like the Athlon? Who will make the chip; Motorola, IBM, TSCM, UMC? [EDIT: Oops, I forgot When will the chip debut?]
Barto
[ 05-25-2002: Message edited by: Barto ]</p>
G-News
<strong>Dear Friends
I believe The Register’s article is a simple smokescreen. I believe we’ll see the G5 debut in July.
You can believe one thing—that Apple will surprise us. It may be a bad surprise, or it could be a surprise that exceeds our most optimistic hopes, but Apple always surprises. You can count on that!
Sincerely,
Jaddie
<a href="http://www.macjournals.com"; target="_blank">MDJ Reader</a></strong><hr></blockquote>
If you had said that in November, I would have agreed. However, I have too many whispers to the contrary. I wish I could "believe".
As to the REAL July, here it is:
Worst case scenario: mini G4 bumps with the same pathetic bus that The Dawg is barking about.
Best case scenario: innovative mobo design with some curious unforeseen tricks and modestly bumped G4 processors in dual or quad configurations.
----------------------------------
Either way, the Sybaritic girl is buying in Nashvegas.
Like Scottie said in the outer reaches of warp nine: "Captain! She can't hold out much longer!"
<strong>Right now it shares the fate of Shroedinger's Cat [look it up].</strong><hr></blockquote>
hehe. That was a blast from the past. Last time I heard reference made to that was back when I was still doing High school chemistry, which is a long time back now.
Best teacher I ever had my senior Chemistry teacher and that includes some stiff competition from an excellent Engineering ethics lecturer I had at uni.
Anyway sorry to interrupt please return to your regular musings
So if apple does that, they're screwed, but athlon, p4 mobos pulling exactly the same stunt, you don't complain about that?
<strong>
So if apple does that, they're screwed, but athlon, p4 mobos pulling exactly the same stunt, you don't complain about that?</strong><hr></blockquote>
OK, is this true with all Athlon and P4
mobo's, or is this just a theme in the cheaper ones?