Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. But, frankly, and again in my opinion (I know other people will disagree), the faster TiBooks are the only good powerbooks at running OS X. If I were a student running 9 apps, then of course I'd get an iBook or an old g3 Powerbook. But if I wanted to run X, and most people do, I'd want to go for the most powerful thing available. Especially if Apple is willing to sell the low-end Ti for reasonable prices.
Don't get me wrong, I'm currently coveting a 15" powerbook, but every time I think about it, I come to the conclusion that I plain just don't NEED one. The only real reason I want one is because I like to watch a quicktime movie while I write, and the iBook's screen is just too small (and the video card is so old that everything gets pretty sluggish). But really, that's IT.
Actually, the 1GHz eMac with combo drive is now selling for as little as $849 (Educational price). If I were a student, I'd get one of these and load it up with 1GB of RAM. Perfect!
I have been in the same dilemma as many folks regarding the updated pb 15. I have always been a windows user, but I was finally going to make the switch to a new powerbook. The 17" had every feature I wanted...but I couldn't deal with the size. The 12" was okay, but I needed a bigger screen. I wanted an updated 15, but since I start medical school tomorrow...I didn't have the luxury to wait. As an alternative I purchased a gateway 200XL notebook last week which I have been really pleased with. The quick rundown is this:
1.6 Centrino
14.1 XGA
512 RAM
60 GB HD
WIFI (b)
2X DVD-R/RW & 24X CD-R/RW
USB 2.0
Firewire
etc...
The gateway doesn't have DVI out...but it has optical audio out which I find much more useful!
Anyway, for less than 2500 you can get a great notebook that is less than 5 lbs...and has some great features.
The gateway's one drawback is that it doesn't have a dedicated video card. This scared me when I was purchasing the computer, but I run Photoshop and premiere, and I haven't seen any problems yet. It will take more use before I can make a full decision.
NOTE: This reply is simply intended for those readers who are currently in this same dilemma. I have no intention of getting into a PC vs. MAC performance debate or anything else. I realize many users swear by the MAC OS, so a PC is out of the question. However, if you are looking for a high performance sub 5lbs notebook you might want to check it out.
the one thing i can never figure is why mac.heads complain about being outdated so soon. they say Apple doesn't updated enough, yet in the same breath moan about their *mac being outdated within months
look at the wintel world - you're outdated in weeks, not months.
If you NEED a faster than fast Apple portable now, then get the Tibook, otherwise wait for the next 15" Ti / Al.book. IMO a wait is justified, cos after 7/9 months, an update can't be THAT far off ... surely ... i hope ... i pray ...i beg
Just to explain my choice to buy now, first of all the cost is right, after rebates. I just got my dealer on the phone, i'll get my machine tomorrow, for a cash price of 2150 US $ before VAT, which i think is fair for a 1 Gz machine with the airport card etc.
Secondly, i would really like a G5, but as i do not plan to buy a new powerbook every release, i'd rather pass the next one, if it's "only" going to be a Motorola alubook on par with the present 12 and 17", albeit a bit faster, and i will buy a second generation G5 powerbook in late 2004/early 2005.
Plus i need it now...
I've been waiting for improvements in the book lines for over a year now, i'm sorry for everyone who liknes them, but 12" really doesn't make it for me, so if there had been a widescreen 13 or 14, i may have been in the market, but in the present line up there is only the 15", and i'm sure it is good enough for my needs.
Just to explain my choice to buy now, first of all the cost is right, after rebates. I just got my dealer on the phone, i'll get my machine tomorrow, for a cash price of 2150 US $ before VAT, which i think is fair for a 1 Gz machine with the airport card etc.
Secondly, i would really like a G5, but as i do not plan to buy a new powerbook every release, i'd rather pass the next one, if it's "only" going to be a Motorola alubook on par with the present 12 and 17", albeit a bit faster, and i will buy a second generation G5 powerbook in late 2004/early 2005.
Plus i need it now...
I've been waiting for improvements in the book lines for over a year now, i'm sorry for everyone who liknes them, but 12" really doesn't make it for me, so if there had been a widescreen 13 or 14, i may have been in the market, but in the present line up there is only the 15", and i'm sure it is good enough for my needs.
I made a similar decision, because when new PB's do come out, the price is going to be up again. I went to the Apple Store, played with the 12", loved it and I'd save about a thousand dollars over what I'd spend on a laptop if I wait for the new 15" AlBook, so I can afford all sorts of extras that I'd have to forego otherwise. I expect the 12" to work as my mobile computer for long enough for me to be able to afford to get whatever the latest and greatest is in a couple of years.
I just dont buy this 'obsolete' business. The current 15" Ti is as fast/powerfull as the 17" Alu and faster than the current 12" Alu. How does this make it 'obsolete'. Obsolete for what. What is it you can not do on a 15" Ti book? Even when the G5 appears in a laptop (which looking at the latest Macworld rumours looks like being Feb 2004) the G4 will not be obsolete. Slower than the G5 yes. But obsolete? Come on, get real people. The Apple 12", 15" and 17" Powerbooks are the best kick ass laptops on the planet! Yes they will get better and faster in time, but that does not mean that they will necessarily age any faster than anything introduced this side of December 2004. Technology does not move ahead that fast! I mean, come on, millions are still using their G3 iBooks, iMacs and whatever. Perfectly happily.
I have a question: What are you college students DOING that requires a machine like the TiBook?
I already answered this in another forum but hey I figure I'll give it another go. Most college students won't need much more than an iBook but a small percentage say somewhere between 15-25% such as Computer graphics majors, programming majors and media arts majors will need more. Short version of what we do with our computers: video editing, video compositing, motion graphics, interactive design, 3d modeling and just for fun DVD authoring and programming. If you want to know what programs FCP, DVD Studio Pro, Maya, After Effects Production Bundle, Director, Photoshop, Illustrator. Occasionally Media 100 but obviously I wouldn't use a Powerbook for that since it doesn't have anywhere to shove a giant dedicated card. I know this from experience being that I am a grad student. At the univ. I am at they suggest that all students have there own equipment and software. And yes believe it or not I obtained all of the software I personally use legally. Less headaches that way.
Well I just ordered my Powerbook 15". I said to hell with waiting. I want my pbook. I decided that the current model is good enough. It's a goddamn good product.
I am going into a multimedia program in which i will be using photoshop, final cut, DVDSP, etc and although an ibook will run these apps, the PB does a much better job.
The current TiBooks will do the job quite well, however i cannot afford the top end model. The current prices are fantastic, but it is my belief that if new models come out at higher prices (ie out of my price range) i will be able to pick up one of the current models for the same price if not cheaper than what they are currently selling for. This is the main reason that i have for watiing.
I was about to start this reply with "I do not understand apple customers saying they should be perfectly happy with the current crop of product", instead as a long time Apple customer, Ill start with...
Hopefully Apple does not listen to silly people who think that anything apple dishes out will accepted as caviar. The reality is not everyone can be satisfied, which is why market forces dictate the success of a product. So whilst one person is happy with a 1G Ti doing MS Office, another may not be using it for FCP.
The point is Apple's PB's are now falling behind PC's in price/performance for P4's at 2.4-2.8GHz. The CPU is lame and is also affecting the Consumer range, dont agree, see latest Apple financial results.
I detest those that simply accept Apple's offerings, without question. I would be satisfied with the product, since I still use a Ti 400, I dont have unrealistic expectations, but I dont wish to be treated as a fool.
The point is Apple's PB's are now falling behind PC's in price/performance for P4's at 2.4-2.8GHz.
Try Pentium-M @ 1.6 GHz or Dothan @ 1.8 GHz @ 90nm, and the G4 will be simply left somewhere in the dust, performance and price-performance-wise.
And to all the Eternal Apologists saying "what could you possibly want to do do that you can't do equally well with a G4", tell them to try to rip and convert a DVD, do a 3D rendering, render a movie to (high-quality) Mpeg4, or even play a recent game.
Hasapi, you are a fool if you think the next rev. powerbooks are gonna involve anything othat than a minor speed hike (like the last) and introduce Aluminium/FW800 across the line. And if you are not satisfied by the current crop then that aint gonna change much, at least until the G5 is introduced, reportedly late 2004. I run both Word and FCP on my 1Ghz Ti book and it runs both really well. I recently switched from a PC to a mac, after 15 years on the darks side. Believe me, there is nothing in the PC world that even comes close to what Apple are currently producing. Let alone what they will bring out in future. The best product does not always 'win' as you say. And all that 'market forces' do is ensure that the cheapest product with the most features is the one that reins supreme. Currently that is microsoft.
I'm with the gang wondering what performance a person realistically needs out of a laptop that Apple can't offer them currently.
...
It's the fact that most people like myself do not upgrade every year. So when it comes to putting down our hard earned cash on a 15" Powerbook, you have to ask yourself do I buy the current one that was intoduced almost 9 months ago(Nov 6, 2002) or wait for a new 15" model tahy may be out within the next 45-60 Days and might/should see
these several improvements.
15.4-inch TFT Display
1GHz or 1.25 PowerPC G4
a bus speed faster of 167
64MB to 128MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
FireWire 800
Now If I was going to buy a 15" powerbook I would wait the 45-60 days to see if a newer version is released.
With all that said....I not in the market until sometime in 2004....so there better be a Powerbook G5 comming.
Comments
Originally posted by neurokid
Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. But, frankly, and again in my opinion (I know other people will disagree), the faster TiBooks are the only good powerbooks at running OS X. If I were a student running 9 apps, then of course I'd get an iBook or an old g3 Powerbook. But if I wanted to run X, and most people do, I'd want to go for the most powerful thing available. Especially if Apple is willing to sell the low-end Ti for reasonable prices.
Don't get me wrong, I'm currently coveting a 15" powerbook, but every time I think about it, I come to the conclusion that I plain just don't NEED one. The only real reason I want one is because I like to watch a quicktime movie while I write, and the iBook's screen is just too small (and the video card is so old that everything gets pretty sluggish). But really, that's IT.
Cheers
Scott
1.6 Centrino
14.1 XGA
512 RAM
60 GB HD
WIFI (b)
2X DVD-R/RW & 24X CD-R/RW
USB 2.0
Firewire
etc...
The gateway doesn't have DVI out...but it has optical audio out which I find much more useful!
Anyway, for less than 2500 you can get a great notebook that is less than 5 lbs...and has some great features.
The gateway's one drawback is that it doesn't have a dedicated video card. This scared me when I was purchasing the computer, but I run Photoshop and premiere, and I haven't seen any problems yet. It will take more use before I can make a full decision.
NOTE: This reply is simply intended for those readers who are currently in this same dilemma. I have no intention of getting into a PC vs. MAC performance debate or anything else. I realize many users swear by the MAC OS, so a PC is out of the question. However, if you are looking for a high performance sub 5lbs notebook you might want to check it out.
Originally posted by Delphiki
I'll bet you'd feel silly if they actually were released tomorrow
Prolly not since the "Tomorrow" in question happened about two weeks ago.
Ick. I hope you paid a lot less than $2500, then.
look at the wintel world - you're outdated in weeks, not months.
If you NEED a faster than fast Apple portable now, then get the Tibook, otherwise wait for the next 15" Ti / Al.book. IMO a wait is justified, cos after 7/9 months, an update can't be THAT far off ... surely ... i hope ... i pray ...i beg
Secondly, i would really like a G5, but as i do not plan to buy a new powerbook every release, i'd rather pass the next one, if it's "only" going to be a Motorola alubook on par with the present 12 and 17", albeit a bit faster, and i will buy a second generation G5 powerbook in late 2004/early 2005.
Plus i need it now...
I've been waiting for improvements in the book lines for over a year now, i'm sorry for everyone who liknes them, but 12" really doesn't make it for me, so if there had been a widescreen 13 or 14, i may have been in the market, but in the present line up there is only the 15", and i'm sure it is good enough for my needs.
Originally posted by teufel
Just to explain my choice to buy now, first of all the cost is right, after rebates. I just got my dealer on the phone, i'll get my machine tomorrow, for a cash price of 2150 US $ before VAT, which i think is fair for a 1 Gz machine with the airport card etc.
Secondly, i would really like a G5, but as i do not plan to buy a new powerbook every release, i'd rather pass the next one, if it's "only" going to be a Motorola alubook on par with the present 12 and 17", albeit a bit faster, and i will buy a second generation G5 powerbook in late 2004/early 2005.
Plus i need it now...
I've been waiting for improvements in the book lines for over a year now, i'm sorry for everyone who liknes them, but 12" really doesn't make it for me, so if there had been a widescreen 13 or 14, i may have been in the market, but in the present line up there is only the 15", and i'm sure it is good enough for my needs.
I made a similar decision, because when new PB's do come out, the price is going to be up again. I went to the Apple Store, played with the 12", loved it and I'd save about a thousand dollars over what I'd spend on a laptop if I wait for the new 15" AlBook, so I can afford all sorts of extras that I'd have to forego otherwise. I expect the 12" to work as my mobile computer for long enough for me to be able to afford to get whatever the latest and greatest is in a couple of years.
Originally posted by midwinter
I have a question: What are you college students DOING that requires a machine like the TiBook?
I already answered this in another forum but hey I figure I'll give it another go. Most college students won't need much more than an iBook but a small percentage say somewhere between 15-25% such as Computer graphics majors, programming majors and media arts majors will need more. Short version of what we do with our computers: video editing, video compositing, motion graphics, interactive design, 3d modeling and just for fun DVD authoring and programming. If you want to know what programs FCP, DVD Studio Pro, Maya, After Effects Production Bundle, Director, Photoshop, Illustrator. Occasionally Media 100 but obviously I wouldn't use a Powerbook for that since it doesn't have anywhere to shove a giant dedicated card. I know this from experience being that I am a grad student. At the univ. I am at they suggest that all students have there own equipment and software. And yes believe it or not I obtained all of the software I personally use legally. Less headaches that way.
also have you guys noticed less witty titles and more like just sentences being used (not that its a big problem, just annoying haha)
Plus, i get an iPod for 70 bucks.
- J
Originally posted by BigJ
It's a goddamn good product.
F*ck yea! It's a m#%her f&cking great product
The current TiBooks will do the job quite well, however i cannot afford the top end model. The current prices are fantastic, but it is my belief that if new models come out at higher prices (ie out of my price range) i will be able to pick up one of the current models for the same price if not cheaper than what they are currently selling for. This is the main reason that i have for watiing.
Hopefully Apple does not listen to silly people who think that anything apple dishes out will accepted as caviar. The reality is not everyone can be satisfied, which is why market forces dictate the success of a product. So whilst one person is happy with a 1G Ti doing MS Office, another may not be using it for FCP.
The point is Apple's PB's are now falling behind PC's in price/performance for P4's at 2.4-2.8GHz. The CPU is lame and is also affecting the Consumer range, dont agree, see latest Apple financial results.
I detest those that simply accept Apple's offerings, without question. I would be satisfied with the product, since I still use a Ti 400, I dont have unrealistic expectations, but I dont wish to be treated as a fool.
Soulcrusher sez:
I was not wrong, they may still be released tomorrow.
oops.
Originally posted by hasapi
The point is Apple's PB's are now falling behind PC's in price/performance for P4's at 2.4-2.8GHz.
Try Pentium-M @ 1.6 GHz or Dothan @ 1.8 GHz @ 90nm, and the G4 will be simply left somewhere in the dust, performance and price-performance-wise.
And to all the Eternal Apologists saying "what could you possibly want to do do that you can't do equally well with a G4", tell them to try to rip and convert a DVD, do a 3D rendering, render a movie to (high-quality) Mpeg4, or even play a recent game.
Originally posted by fred_lj
I'm with the gang wondering what performance a person realistically needs out of a laptop that Apple can't offer them currently.
...
It's the fact that most people like myself do not upgrade every year. So when it comes to putting down our hard earned cash on a 15" Powerbook, you have to ask yourself do I buy the current one that was intoduced almost 9 months ago(Nov 6, 2002) or wait for a new 15" model tahy may be out within the next 45-60 Days and might/should see
these several improvements.
15.4-inch TFT Display
1GHz or 1.25 PowerPC G4
a bus speed faster of 167
64MB to 128MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
FireWire 800
Now If I was going to buy a 15" powerbook I would wait the 45-60 days to see if a newer version is released.
With all that said....I not in the market until sometime in 2004....so there better be a Powerbook G5 comming.