Lance Amstrong is a great champion, with a good sportive spirit. I am happy that Lance will win the tdf 2003 and not Ulrich. Ulrich has been caught positive three years ago, at the contrary of Lance who was never controlled positive.
Amstrong is definitively a great cyclist and merit to enter in the hall of fame. You cannot compare cyclism today as the cyclism in the time of Merckx. In the time of Merckx they where fewer nations who where competiting : it was basically a mix of 15 countries, no there is about cyclist coming from 80 countries. The level has considerabily raise. It's not anymore physiologicaly possible to be competitive at all the competitions without cheating. you have to choice your prime goal, and le Tour de France is certainly the biggest of all in cyclism.
BTW is always difficult to compare biggest champions of differents eras. Let's say, Lance is the biggest of the last decade.
No for the lame poll, about the US vs Europe thing here. I just discovered, that he came from Texas, and really it doesnt care. Lance give some interview in french : its great and sympathic. Now, i am sure, that he will disapointed to see such a meaningless poll, here at AO. The US vs Europe have nothing to do with cyclism or Lance Amstrong.
There is no reason to regard Armstrong as an inferior cyclist compared with the others and as an athlete/competitor he is quite possibly above them all, taking into account overcoming cancer.
That's just not true. Armstrong doesn't cycle year round. He trains for one race and wins it. Many better athletes will lose the TdF but race many other times throughout the year, winning many races. They are better overall cyclists.
If you want to say that he's one of the best at the TdF, you might have a case. If you claim he's the best overall cyclist you're just wrong.
The way Ulrich waited for Lance, just as Lance waited for Ulrich last year, was incredible. I can't think of any other times that anyone showed such admirable sportsmanship, in bicycling or any other sport. What honorable people.
It wasn't last year, Ulrich missed last year's tour due to doping
I was thinking the same thing, but it's so hard to ignore a personal attack (and not just for me, apparently, seeing this exact action-reaction pattern is the essence of AppleOutsider).
I've forgotten again, which country is Eddie Merckx from der kopf?
(though to be fair, it's not just my kind recognising him for the superchamp he was. I even remember Armstrong himself stating last year, after his win, and pondering a possible fifth, that he had problems considering himself an equal of Merckx).
Lance Amstrong is a great champion, with a good sportive spirit. I am happy that Lance will win the tdf 2003 and not Ulrich. Ulrich has been caught positive three years ago, at the contrary of Lance who was never controlled positive.
Amstrong is definitively a great cyclist and merit to enter in the hall of fame. You cannot compare cyclism today as the cyclism in the time of Merckx. In the time of Merckx they where fewer nations who where competiting : it was basically a mix of 15 countries, no there is about cyclist coming from 80 countries. The level has considerabily raise. It's not anymore physiologicaly possible to be competitive at all the competitions without cheating. you have to choice your prime goal, and le Tour de France is certainly the biggest of all in cyclism.
BTW is always difficult to compare biggest champions of differents eras. Let's say, Lance is the biggest of the last decade.
No for the lame poll, about the US vs Europe thing here. I just discovered, that he came from Texas, and really it doesnt care. Lance give some interview in french : its great and sympathic. Now, i am sure, that he will disapointed to see such a meaningless poll, here at AO. The US vs Europe have nothing to do with cyclism or Lance Amstrong.
Powerdoc has given a great reply above. Too many in the thread have taken a sour and immature path off the main topic of the thread. It matters not where a person is from. The whole US vs Europe thing is more than old and worn out.
Being honest, I'd have to say that I'm not at all as horrified by doping as many other cycling enthusiasts are. It's pretty probable that organised doping took place in most/all teams prior to the "doping Tour" (of '97?). It's likely that doping continues to be the driving force behind the exploits of many cyclists. And to me, it doesn't mean anything, because I realise that you may put me chuckfull of doping, fuller than anyone has ever been before, and I still wouldn't be able to even finish last in one stage of the Tour. Of course it hurts a bit when a good cyclist gets caught, when he is exposed as a bit of a fraud, but in general, I don't have a particular hard-on for catching doping crooks. Even if all of the about 200 cyclists that participated in the Tour this year took doping, I would not care.
The conclusion being: I have never believed Armstrong to be a doper, and even if he were, it would hardly influence my view of him. (my reservations with him have been, I hope, explained fully above).
The way Ulrich waited for Lance, just as Lance waited for Ulrich last year, was incredible. I can't think of any other times that anyone showed such admirable sportsmanship, in bicycling or any other sport. What honorable people.
I agree. I was never too into cycling, never watched it, just read a few stories here and there.
Today I watched the hour highlight show on CBS. And it just struck me.
What an amazing sporting event and what amazingly honorable and respectful athletes.
Me too. That and snooker and the first 250 meter of F1
To be fair, I am always quite impressed by cross-country running (one of the sports I myself enjoy performing most, coincidentally), and athletics in general, but I don't follow it nearly as much as I do cycle (which I, coincidentally again, do perform VERY leisurely myself).
Comments
Amstrong is definitively a great cyclist and merit to enter in the hall of fame. You cannot compare cyclism today as the cyclism in the time of Merckx. In the time of Merckx they where fewer nations who where competiting : it was basically a mix of 15 countries, no there is about cyclist coming from 80 countries. The level has considerabily raise. It's not anymore physiologicaly possible to be competitive at all the competitions without cheating. you have to choice your prime goal, and le Tour de France is certainly the biggest of all in cyclism.
BTW is always difficult to compare biggest champions of differents eras. Let's say, Lance is the biggest of the last decade.
No for the lame poll, about the US vs Europe thing here. I just discovered, that he came from Texas, and really it doesnt care. Lance give some interview in french : its great and sympathic. Now, i am sure, that he will disapointed to see such a meaningless poll, here at AO. The US vs Europe have nothing to do with cyclism or Lance Amstrong.
Originally posted by groverat
There is no reason to regard Armstrong as an inferior cyclist compared with the others and as an athlete/competitor he is quite possibly above them all, taking into account overcoming cancer.
That's just not true. Armstrong doesn't cycle year round. He trains for one race and wins it. Many better athletes will lose the TdF but race many other times throughout the year, winning many races. They are better overall cyclists.
If you want to say that he's one of the best at the TdF, you might have a case. If you claim he's the best overall cyclist you're just wrong.
Originally posted by Placebo
The way Ulrich waited for Lance, just as Lance waited for Ulrich last year, was incredible. I can't think of any other times that anyone showed such admirable sportsmanship, in bicycling or any other sport. What honorable people.
It wasn't last year, Ulrich missed last year's tour due to doping
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Methinks Groverat is just pushing your buttons.
I was thinking the same thing, but it's so hard to ignore a personal attack (and not just for me, apparently, seeing this exact action-reaction pattern is the essence of AppleOutsider).
Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
I've forgotten again, which country is Eddie Merckx from der kopf?
(though to be fair, it's not just my kind recognising him for the superchamp he was. I even remember Armstrong himself stating last year, after his win, and pondering a possible fifth, that he had problems considering himself an equal of Merckx).
Originally posted by groverat
It doesn't sit well with you because he's American, which I think is petty and childish.
Actually, it was because of Dr. Ferrari, who is European as far as I know.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Lance Amstrong is a great champion, with a good sportive spirit. I am happy that Lance will win the tdf 2003 and not Ulrich. Ulrich has been caught positive three years ago, at the contrary of Lance who was never controlled positive.
Amstrong is definitively a great cyclist and merit to enter in the hall of fame. You cannot compare cyclism today as the cyclism in the time of Merckx. In the time of Merckx they where fewer nations who where competiting : it was basically a mix of 15 countries, no there is about cyclist coming from 80 countries. The level has considerabily raise. It's not anymore physiologicaly possible to be competitive at all the competitions without cheating. you have to choice your prime goal, and le Tour de France is certainly the biggest of all in cyclism.
BTW is always difficult to compare biggest champions of differents eras. Let's say, Lance is the biggest of the last decade.
No for the lame poll, about the US vs Europe thing here. I just discovered, that he came from Texas, and really it doesnt care. Lance give some interview in french : its great and sympathic. Now, i am sure, that he will disapointed to see such a meaningless poll, here at AO. The US vs Europe have nothing to do with cyclism or Lance Amstrong.
Powerdoc has given a great reply above. Too many in the thread have taken a sour and immature path off the main topic of the thread. It matters not where a person is from. The whole US vs Europe thing is more than old and worn out.
Fellowship
The conclusion being: I have never believed Armstrong to be a doper, and even if he were, it would hardly influence my view of him. (my reservations with him have been, I hope, explained fully above).
Originally posted by 123
Actually, it was because of Dr. Ferrari, who is European as far as I know.
Is Ferrari doctor for Armstrong?
Pretty stupid if you want to avoid any accusation about doping.
Originally posted by groverat
Training properly for and winning the biggest is better than doping, winning a few smaller events and losing the biggest.
Is that how the world's best cyclists did it?
Originally posted by Placebo
The way Ulrich waited for Lance, just as Lance waited for Ulrich last year, was incredible. I can't think of any other times that anyone showed such admirable sportsmanship, in bicycling or any other sport. What honorable people.
I agree. I was never too into cycling, never watched it, just read a few stories here and there.
Today I watched the hour highlight show on CBS. And it just struck me.
What an amazing sporting event and what amazingly honorable and respectful athletes.
I think I'm hooked
Originally posted by applenut
I agree. I was never too into cycling, never watched it, just read a few stories here and there.
Today I watched the hour highlight show on CBS. And it just struck me.
What an amazing sporting event and what amazingly honorable and respectful athletes.
I think I'm hooked
I never knew sports till I got sucked into cycling by one of Indurain's Tours. It's still about the only sport I truly enjoy following.
Originally posted by der Kopf
I never knew sports till I got sucked into cycling by one of Indurain's Tours. It's still about the only sport I truly enjoy following.
Me too. That and snooker and the first 250 meter of F1
Originally posted by Anders
Me too. That and snooker and the first 250 meter of F1
To be fair, I am always quite impressed by cross-country running (one of the sports I myself enjoy performing most, coincidentally), and athletics in general, but I don't follow it nearly as much as I do cycle (which I, coincidentally again, do perform VERY leisurely myself).