Ugggh, still that horrible white shell. The thing will scratch if you breathe on it. Cool specs, but iBooks = 1000 bucks of CHEAP crap. Prefer my Powerbook 12 and 15inch , hands down the two best looking notebooks Apple has ever made and they are very solid machines. If people are in the market for budget notebooks, look somewhere else. Out of 8 iBooks we bought for our employees back in March, just two are still with us and they are used as backups (mostly collecting dust).
P.S, Relic that's a pretty harsh statement, Apple releases the iBooks as lower costing alternatives. If you have 12 & 15 inch laptops, then you aren't doing badly. I think the white looks cool, unless it's transparent..
To further follow up from JLL's post- it doesn't look like this is a 'true' G4- there's no AltiVec! Velocity engine isn't mentioned anywhere, and if you look at the specs:
800MHz, 933MHz or 1GHz PowerPC G4 processor with 256K on-chip level 2 cache running at full processor speed
133 MHZ system bus
256MB of SDRAM (128MB built in and 128MB in SO-DIMM slot)
There's no mention of altivec. Look at the eMac specs:
1GHz PowerPC G4 processor with Velocity Engine
256K on-chip level 2 cache at full processor speed
133MHz system bus
128MB or 256MB of PC133 SDRAM, expandable up to 1GB; two user-accessible 168-pin DIMM slots support up to 1GB using 128MB, 256MB, or 512MB DIMMs
As Mac Slash says- this is probably the new IBM 750 class processor with DDR support and a faster bus, and has therefore been reclassified as a G4. Either that or it's a hobbled Moto G4, but that seems unlikely.
Guess us 12" powerbook owners feel a bit better about the premium now...
Why 12" iBook is only 800MHz? Sometimes smaller laptop is better, if you travel a lot.
Because the iBook isn't built for road warriors. It has filled that role for some people, but only as a pure accident of component cost/size. The iBook is aimed squarely at students and budget buyers. The market has shown time and time again that these buyers favor a larger screen over portability. Also, since the iBook DOES NOT SPAN DISPLAYS, a larger screen is absolutely critical to people who want to work comfortably on the machine as their only computer (no external display, no "docking"- undocking) A student might not have the money or the space to set up a little "dock" (monitor, keyboard, stand) for their book. There's no denying that the 14" screen is more pleasant to work with if ultimate portabilitgy is not at issue, and -- living on campus, or being shuttled in the car, or just travelling from the bedroom to the kitchen -- it isn't!
If you want the smallest, lightest and fastest, Apple will gladly sell you a 12" PB with all the other advantages of that model.
The 12" iBook will linger for a while, but it is now the bottom model, as it should be, it gets the smallest screen not for portability, but to be as cheap as possible, which is also why it gets a significantly slower PPC, and lower HDD capacity.
I can safely tell you that the 12" iBook will never get a DVD-burning option, will grow increasingly under-spec'd versus the 14" models WRT to RAM/HDD/IO options, and probably fall slightly behind in terms of GPU updates as well, just as in the past, where the bottom model didn't recieve the same GPU bump that other recieved. It's there only to meet an entry level price point. For the majority of buyers the 14" model is the real one to get on the merits of the larger screen alone.
The competition features 15"+ screens. Apple had to do this, they were well behind. Look for the 12" iBook to be an orphan model untill it is finally phased out in favor of a 14-15" widescreen iBook redesign (a la Pscates' lovely mock-up)
In consumer/edu notebook markets, larger screens are a strong selling point!
At the same time, look for the next revisions of the 12" PB to squeak under the 4lb mark, unless the move to G5's becomes more difficult than Apple at first imagined.
PS. Mortigi, current PB12 (1Ghz, DVI) opwners should feel better about the premium regardless. For the 500, they got a lighter, faster, more durable machine with better I/O, better video connection and SUPPORTED display spanning! (not to mention the greatest keyboard ever made)
Maybe they're just sick of talking about or someone just didnt remember to mention it. Anyway, now thats cleared up can we get over it and talk about what a bargin the iBook G4 is rather than if a G4 can be a G4 without Altivec (it cant) Sheesh!
Ugggh, still that horrible white shell. The thing will scratch if you breathe on it. Cool specs, but iBooks = 1000 bucks of CHEAP crap. Prefer my Powerbook 12 and 15inch , hands down the two best looking notebooks Apple has ever made and they are very solid machines. If people are in the market for budget notebooks, look somewhere else. Out of 8 iBooks we bought for our employees back in March, just two are still with us and they are used as backups (mostly collecting dust).
**** Damnit Matsu, I clap along with the crowd when you do your price dance just like everyone else, but get off your vendetta against the iBook 12" !!! *****
WTF? Why is it so important to your ego to constantly bash the 12" computer and vehemently lobby for it to be phased out at every opportunity? Everytime you lob this idea in here you get into an argument with about 5 students and people who try to explain to you there are folks in the world who don't want to have to lug around a 14" computer because they don't have the bucks for a powerbook. It has been demonstrated time and time again that there is a huge market out there for people who think that small is beautiful. And with the monitor spanning hack these are really great work computers for 2D folks. You're not suggesting that Apple disable this feature further out of spite are you?
I do have friends who have the 14" because they like the big screen, but everyone I know personally under 30 years of age has bought the 12" and it's not because of the price. In fact, this is about the cutest little piece of seductive hardware that apple has out there (iPods excluded) for non-techie types and non-powerusers. Funny how "cute", "portable" and "cheap" are all things that young people want. Just like old people need a big screen. Different demographics, different products, mmkay?
I completely agree with you that these are the entry level laptop and need to be as cheap as possible and need not be so powerful, but why keep up this active ignorance about the fact that there is a place for this form factor without it being either a)totally crippled or b)expensive (Pb 12")? You are really getting a bit tedious...
I agree with 90% of what you post, and agree that one model of iBook should be left behind in features in order to keep lowering the price, but there is also a place for a well spec'ed smaller version that would appeal to the kids who want a small computer with modern technology and yet can't justify $500 more for Pb. How else do you hit the price/performance sweet spot that moderately informed young people buy in? If the Pb 12" is your solution to the portability concerns - who is disregarding price now?
I love you man but everytime the title of the thread has the word "iBook" in it I know you are about to whip out the soapbox to catechize yet again that one of the best loved apple machines should be killed off, and I wish you would spend your energy elsewhere.
Can anyone tell me if the dimensions of the new ibooks are the same as the dimensions of the previous ibooks? I'm trying to figure out if they're bigger or not.
Can anyone tell me if the dimensions of the new ibooks are the same as the dimensions of the previous ibooks? I'm trying to figure out if they're bigger or not.
Can anyone tell me if the dimensions of the new ibooks are the same as the dimensions of the previous ibooks? I'm trying to figure out if they're bigger or not.
The dimensions are the same. In fact, the case is almost the exact same as the old case - the only differences are the color scheme and the slot-loading drive.
Ugggh, still that horrible white shell. The thing will scratch if you breathe on it. Cool specs, but iBooks = 1000 bucks of CHEAP crap. Prefer my Powerbook 12 and 15inch , hands down the two best looking notebooks Apple has ever made and they are very solid machines. If people are in the market for budget notebooks, look somewhere else. Out of 8 iBooks we bought for our employees back in March, just two are still with us and they are used as backups (mostly collecting dust).
Comments
My god! You were so right.
I checked at another store after I posted. Seems like the Apple reseller we've been using for years has been charging us more.. A lot more..
Aw heck. Well, won't be using them anymore.
However, the Panther price was correct. As they didn't have educational pricing at the time. Lucky yours and mine match eh?
Updated prices:
iBooks\t\t\t\t
Educational Pricing........................ 12" $ 1785
.................................................. ......14" $ 2161
1 GHz, 60GB HD, Combo Drive............14" $ 2443.06
933 MHz............................................$ 2161.06 Retail $2299.06
P.S, Relic that's a pretty harsh statement, Apple releases the iBooks as lower costing alternatives. If you have 12 & 15 inch laptops, then you aren't doing badly. I think the white looks cool, unless it's transparent..
Jimzip
Originally posted by sCreeD
Exactly, I'm comparing the specs of the 12" iBook and 12" Powerbook and wondering why exactly I paid $500 extra.
more RAM,
better video-connector,
shiny aluminium
i think you will most benefit from the 12" Powerbook when adding more RAM to it... 640MB is maximum for the 12" iBook
800MHz, 933MHz or 1GHz PowerPC G4 processor with 256K on-chip level 2 cache running at full processor speed
133 MHZ system bus
256MB of SDRAM (128MB built in and 128MB in SO-DIMM slot)
There's no mention of altivec. Look at the eMac specs:
1GHz PowerPC G4 processor with Velocity Engine
256K on-chip level 2 cache at full processor speed
133MHz system bus
128MB or 256MB of PC133 SDRAM, expandable up to 1GB; two user-accessible 168-pin DIMM slots support up to 1GB using 128MB, 256MB, or 512MB DIMMs
As Mac Slash says- this is probably the new IBM 750 class processor with DDR support and a faster bus, and has therefore been reclassified as a G4. Either that or it's a hobbled Moto G4, but that seems unlikely.
Guess us 12" powerbook owners feel a bit better about the premium now...
Originally posted by Stratosfear
Why 12" iBook is only 800MHz? Sometimes smaller laptop is better, if you travel a lot.
Because the iBook isn't built for road warriors. It has filled that role for some people, but only as a pure accident of component cost/size. The iBook is aimed squarely at students and budget buyers. The market has shown time and time again that these buyers favor a larger screen over portability. Also, since the iBook DOES NOT SPAN DISPLAYS, a larger screen is absolutely critical to people who want to work comfortably on the machine as their only computer (no external display, no "docking"- undocking) A student might not have the money or the space to set up a little "dock" (monitor, keyboard, stand) for their book. There's no denying that the 14" screen is more pleasant to work with if ultimate portabilitgy is not at issue, and -- living on campus, or being shuttled in the car, or just travelling from the bedroom to the kitchen -- it isn't!
If you want the smallest, lightest and fastest, Apple will gladly sell you a 12" PB with all the other advantages of that model.
The 12" iBook will linger for a while, but it is now the bottom model, as it should be, it gets the smallest screen not for portability, but to be as cheap as possible, which is also why it gets a significantly slower PPC, and lower HDD capacity.
I can safely tell you that the 12" iBook will never get a DVD-burning option, will grow increasingly under-spec'd versus the 14" models WRT to RAM/HDD/IO options, and probably fall slightly behind in terms of GPU updates as well, just as in the past, where the bottom model didn't recieve the same GPU bump that other recieved. It's there only to meet an entry level price point. For the majority of buyers the 14" model is the real one to get on the merits of the larger screen alone.
The competition features 15"+ screens. Apple had to do this, they were well behind. Look for the 12" iBook to be an orphan model untill it is finally phased out in favor of a 14-15" widescreen iBook redesign (a la Pscates' lovely mock-up)
In consumer/edu notebook markets, larger screens are a strong selling point!
At the same time, look for the next revisions of the 12" PB to squeak under the 4lb mark, unless the move to G5's becomes more difficult than Apple at first imagined.
PS. Mortigi, current PB12 (1Ghz, DVI) opwners should feel better about the premium regardless. For the 500, they got a lighter, faster, more durable machine with better I/O, better video connection and SUPPORTED display spanning! (not to mention the greatest keyboard ever made)
Originally posted by mortigi tempo
To further follow up from JLL's post- it doesn't look like this is a 'true' G4- there's no AltiVec! Velocity engine isn't mentioned anywhere
I found this:
http://www.apple.com/education/products/ibook/
Look under What's new
Perhaps a web monkey error? Apple's web monkeys seem to be making a lot of cock ups recently
Waiting to find out what G4 we are talking about.
I agree with you, Anders, no way that it would be anything less than an altivec enabled PPC, for all the reasons you mention.
Originally posted by Matsu
It's the 7445, as featured in the first 12" PB, probably most of the same motherboard too.
However, hostinfo in the 12" powerbook (first generation) I am using right now says "PowerPC 7450".
Originally posted by Relic
Ugggh, still that horrible white shell. The thing will scratch if you breathe on it. Cool specs, but iBooks = 1000 bucks of CHEAP crap. Prefer my Powerbook 12 and 15inch , hands down the two best looking notebooks Apple has ever made and they are very solid machines. If people are in the market for budget notebooks, look somewhere else. Out of 8 iBooks we bought for our employees back in March, just two are still with us and they are used as backups (mostly collecting dust).
Send your extra ones to me tout-de-suite!
WTF? Why is it so important to your ego to constantly bash the 12" computer and vehemently lobby for it to be phased out at every opportunity? Everytime you lob this idea in here you get into an argument with about 5 students and people who try to explain to you there are folks in the world who don't want to have to lug around a 14" computer because they don't have the bucks for a powerbook. It has been demonstrated time and time again that there is a huge market out there for people who think that small is beautiful. And with the monitor spanning hack these are really great work computers for 2D folks. You're not suggesting that Apple disable this feature further out of spite are you?
I do have friends who have the 14" because they like the big screen, but everyone I know personally under 30 years of age has bought the 12" and it's not because of the price. In fact, this is about the cutest little piece of seductive hardware that apple has out there (iPods excluded) for non-techie types and non-powerusers. Funny how "cute", "portable" and "cheap" are all things that young people want. Just like old people need a big screen. Different demographics, different products, mmkay?
I completely agree with you that these are the entry level laptop and need to be as cheap as possible and need not be so powerful, but why keep up this active ignorance about the fact that there is a place for this form factor without it being either a)totally crippled or b)expensive (Pb 12")? You are really getting a bit tedious...
I agree with 90% of what you post, and agree that one model of iBook should be left behind in features in order to keep lowering the price, but there is also a place for a well spec'ed smaller version that would appeal to the kids who want a small computer with modern technology and yet can't justify $500 more for Pb. How else do you hit the price/performance sweet spot that moderately informed young people buy in? If the Pb 12" is your solution to the portability concerns - who is disregarding price now?
I love you man but everytime the title of the thread has the word "iBook" in it I know you are about to whip out the soapbox to catechize yet again that one of the best loved apple machines should be killed off, and I wish you would spend your energy elsewhere.
Originally posted by rajk
Can anyone tell me if the dimensions of the new ibooks are the same as the dimensions of the previous ibooks? I'm trying to figure out if they're bigger or not.
Refer to here for current specs:
http://www.apple.com/ibook/specs.html
Here for April 2003 revision specs:
http://manuals.info.apple.com/Apple_...L27500A_EN.pdf
They appear to be the same dimensions.
Originally posted by rajk
Can anyone tell me if the dimensions of the new ibooks are the same as the dimensions of the previous ibooks? I'm trying to figure out if they're bigger or not.
The dimensions are the same. In fact, the case is almost the exact same as the old case - the only differences are the color scheme and the slot-loading drive.
EDIT: Damn your loins, MCQ
Originally posted by Relic
Ugggh, still that horrible white shell. The thing will scratch if you breathe on it. Cool specs, but iBooks = 1000 bucks of CHEAP crap. Prefer my Powerbook 12 and 15inch , hands down the two best looking notebooks Apple has ever made and they are very solid machines. If people are in the market for budget notebooks, look somewhere else. Out of 8 iBooks we bought for our employees back in March, just two are still with us and they are used as backups (mostly collecting dust).
the things are rock solid. quit your whining.
uhg, this thread is getting sadder and sadder.