Clearly what you call a dork is what passes for geek
I guess the difference twixt dork and geek is that a geek is a dork with a skill
My knowledge of 'Hip Hop ' comes from the people I knew in SF back in the eighties and the IMAGE that was packaged along with the product that was labeled "Hip Hop"
The stuff that played at the clubs near where I worked but then got banned from that club because it brought in a too rough crowd.
They were calling it 'Hip Hop' . . . lots of people were calling it Hip Hop
they were probably wrong, though, because they weren't as in the know and 'down with it' as you apparently are
Do you call these pop producers that you mention geeks simply because they spend alot of time learning their tools?
That must be the problem because to me if you are responcible for defining what has been the single most powerful detirminate force shaping the world's ideas about what is "Cool" then you -ipso facto- are not a Geek
If you somehow can manage to create an imprint on culture through your work and that imprint is one of a cool attitude, saviness, intelligence and downright sex appeal (as the mainstream image of HIP HOP) then even if you spend all day tweeking the innards of a deluxe sequencor you are still NOT a geek . . you can't be because you know too much about culture's desires and ideas of what is hot . . . real geeks are too singularly minded to understand any of that
Neptune uses the word 'nerd' . . . but obviouusly they are not nerds . . . (nerd being generally a dorkier geek) They might have 'nerdly' qualities behind closed doors . . . but all the images of them and the ladies on their website kind of dispell that nerd idea . . .
They might BE geeks behind the scenes but their ability to be then NOT-be disqualifies them from real geekness
(are you a neptune?)
Plato was 400 years before the church . . . or was that your point?
now that i think about it, one of my favorite bands is pretty darned geeky, while remaining cool. several Led Zeppelin songs had strong tolkien references. Ramble On, for instance, deliberately mentions gollum. the battle of evermore has a lot of mentions of the books too.
That must be the problem because to me if you are responcible for defining what has been the single most powerful detirminate force shaping the world's ideas about what is "Cool" then you -ipso facto- are not a Geek
Clearly what you call a dork is what passes for geek
I like the defintions someone posted on the site you linked to:
Quote:
Nerds are defined by what they know. We tend to stick to societally acceptable topics, but dive in much deeper or cover a wider variety of subjects than most. We are the grad students of the world, the academics, researchers and general know-it-alls.
Dorks are defined by what they like. Similar to the nerd, we dive in much deeper than the average person, but the topics we pursue tend to be much more nontraditional. We learn to speak Klingon or Elvish or know the plot lines, writers, and artists of all the major comic books and most of the minor ones.
Geeks are defined by what they can do. We may not know as much as the nerd on any given topic, but we can do more with what we know. We can hook up a home theater, fix a computer, or super-charge a lawnmower. We are the tinkerers, programmers, and garage inventors.
With geeks, there is an obsession with the technology of things. You don't necessarily have to be a dork to be a geek. As pointed out before, someone who has five old PCs running Linux, and SGI box for no good reason and a collection of synths is CLEARLY a geek, whether they are a big dark skinned thug or a whimpy emo white boy.
Quote:
Neptune uses the word 'nerd' . . . but obviouusly they are not nerds . . . (nerd being generally a dorkier geek)
I know quite a few guys that went from skinny computer nerd to fit ladies men. I'm not kidding. I could go down the list. 2 are programmers (one formerly at Midway Games, who made mortal combat for those not geeky enough to know). They go to the gym and sit with ladies in hottubs at home. Looks don't matter. That's what makes the Neptunes so great. They are the image of the new class of ultra-cool geeks. And you can sure as hell bet thay are much, much geekier and likely know quite a bit more about electronics and computers than you.
Just a quick note: I am not a fan. I listen to folks like Elliot Smith, Fennez and recently Interpol, though I am real flighty when it comes to music.
Quote:
Plato was 400 years before the church . . . or was that your point?
That was my point. See point one in that post.
Quote:
Originally posted by thuh Freak
i dont tend to think of musicians as geeks.
I agree (see my first post where I mentioned musicians). I do think music is borderline. I would call a guitar player who is obsessed with knowing the technique a geek. I would not call folks like Creed geeks. Losers, but not geeks. But in these posts I am specifically referring to geeky musicians--those that geek out on electronics.
EC: We met Holly Hunter and liked her but... she wasn't available because she was doing a play in New York.
JC: But she and Fran were room-mates at the time, in the Bronx. Holly went back and told Fran, I can't do this movie but you should go and get an audition.
EC: She said, there are a couple of geeks you should meet.
but its still not a good pickup line for chix: "hey baby, want me to program your microprocessor?," doesn't really help the situation out.
Actually, I think electronics have entered the realm of the car engine, where more and more women look at it as an attractive masculine interest that they are shut out of. They giggle about it on the phone to one another, and see it as competition for time. Women get very attracted when men talk about gear. Even the really stupid ones. The internet boom really launched this trend back in the mid-nineties, and by 2000 it was a full-blown reality. I don't know where you guys were hanging out that you missed this, but apparently it was the wrong place at the wrong time.
Note: Don't think I'm saying women aren't geeks. Some of my closest women friends are geeks, from video editor to Lain types and beyond.
Actually, I think electronics have entered the realm of the car engine, where more and more women look at it as an attractive masculine interest that they are shut out of. They giggle about it on the phone to one another, and see it as competition for time. Women get very attracted when men talk about gear
Shhhhh! you can't give away my secrets! Actualy here on PV the Male showoff factor can take many forms. Some guys uses jewelery. Others use their clothing style, by that i mean beiing able to wear a pink cordinated outfit and still act like a thug. Then there are the types more common to the geeks, the ones who get the sound systems in the cars, and have to have all the dvd gixmo stuff.
And then there is me. Flash the skinny cell phone, if that doesnt work 30Gb iPod does it everytime!!!!!!!!! Then mention price, they complain. I say "well it help me transfer small versions of video i edit". they go you work with cameras? And i gots em. and all from myPod.
but I like the defintins for a geek. My girlfriend told me i am a geek. Her reasoning is that i would be a nerd if all i did were my countless projects. But, she says since I'm so popular, and that I'm always nigga-riggin stuff that I am a geek.
Giant and Pflam, I really think you guys are talking circle around each other.
You both are hitting and missing the mark with your points.
The fact now is that Geek is Chic. This makes the Geek look also chic. Everything that gains cool factor in society has posers. Hell, I wish I were a geek, I'm more of a nerd with geek tendencies when it comes to photography. Also a recovering dork.
But dorkiness and geekiness are important parts of hip-hop culture. Anime, kung-fu movies, little scrawny black kids that have no outlet except to mess around with something alone until they are the fing geek of it, and in an environment that forces them to front a line to others to survive, and if they do? then their geekiness becomes cool. Not all hip-hop is geek though.
Geeks are now valued, because they are the ones who can innovate in an environment that accelerates exponentially. Those that were making fun of them decades ago now have to work in proximity and become reliant on geeks. Thus geekiness is related as good, mixed with other possible redeeming qualities, geeks become people.
The geeks, and dorks that learn to be entertainers also help make geek/ and sometimes dork cool. They come up with something fun or innovative and and introduce the masses to geek and dork culture. (Example) the D&D references made by Weezer, Kung fu references made by Wu-tang, Kung-fu references made my Tarentino. If anyone is a dork, Tarentino is a dork. But he makes some cool fing movies, that makes him cool.
These days as always cool is about what you do, and today if what you do is geeky, then it is cool.
I remember back in the mid- and late-90s, "tech weenie" was the term used in corporate circles, to describe the guys with cheezy short sleaved shirts, beepers and bad haircuts (a la Bo-Ricks).
Nowadays, at least AFAICT, there are all kinds of "Geeks" who aren't "tech weenies", if you take my meaning. I think the same stigma exists in corporate circles where the people who want power, don't in any way want to be considered or associated with the tech guys in their company. Not unless they want to be an IT Director or something.
It's as if they think that giving the appearance of being technologically knowledgeable, will pigeon-hole them into a dead-end career / image. Retarded if you ask me. I myself have the image among my friends and family of the "resident geek" who can help them figure out all things software (despite the fact they all use Win bl0Wz (damn censors)) and so my help is limited to things like MS Office and installing FW cards). But at the same time, none of them would consider me dorky or nerdy in the traditional sense.
I think people earn that "uber geek" reputation when their lives become so one-dimensional that all they talk about / think about is their next computer or the latest [anime] porn icon. A good hint that you may have reached this point of no return, is if you regularly wear say... Ars Technica t-shirts. Or maybe you have TechTV "Screensavers" bumper sticker. I caught part of that show last night trying to go to sleep...
...there was like 16 or 17 year old kid who called in on his video chat and was like "Duuude, I uh, fried my CPU by trying to duct tape a meat thermometer to it. Can you help?" THAT kid, is a nerd / dork / whatever you want to call it. You could tell he hadn't been away from his computer in at least 36 hours (except maybe to eat).
I think this is the entirety of my point, with the addition, now, that some Geeks made cool stuff . . . and eventually thus followed the LOOK that is now 'Geek-Chic'
and I guess some of those geeks were hip hoppers . . .
Comments
I guess the difference twixt dork and geek is that a geek is a dork with a skill
My knowledge of 'Hip Hop ' comes from the people I knew in SF back in the eighties and the IMAGE that was packaged along with the product that was labeled "Hip Hop"
The stuff that played at the clubs near where I worked but then got banned from that club because it brought in a too rough crowd.
They were calling it 'Hip Hop' . . . lots of people were calling it Hip Hop
they were probably wrong, though, because they weren't as in the know and 'down with it' as you apparently are
Do you call these pop producers that you mention geeks simply because they spend alot of time learning their tools?
That must be the problem because to me if you are responcible for defining what has been the single most powerful detirminate force shaping the world's ideas about what is "Cool" then you -ipso facto- are not a Geek
If you somehow can manage to create an imprint on culture through your work and that imprint is one of a cool attitude, saviness, intelligence and downright sex appeal (as the mainstream image of HIP HOP) then even if you spend all day tweeking the innards of a deluxe sequencor you are still NOT a geek . . you can't be because you know too much about culture's desires and ideas of what is hot . . . real geeks are too singularly minded to understand any of that
Neptune uses the word 'nerd' . . . but obviouusly they are not nerds . . . (nerd being generally a dorkier geek) They might have 'nerdly' qualities behind closed doors . . . but all the images of them and the ladies on their website kind of dispell that nerd idea . . .
They might BE geeks behind the scenes but their ability to be then NOT-be disqualifies them from real geekness
(are you a neptune?)
Plato was 400 years before the church . . . or was that your point?
Originally posted by pfflam
That must be the problem because to me if you are responcible for defining what has been the single most powerful detirminate force shaping the world's ideas about what is "Cool" then you -ipso facto- are not a Geek
I'd say that's wrong. One counterpoint:
http://www.shift.com/content/web/273/1.html
Originally posted by pfflam
Clearly what you call a dork is what passes for geek
I like the defintions someone posted on the site you linked to:
Nerds are defined by what they know. We tend to stick to societally acceptable topics, but dive in much deeper or cover a wider variety of subjects than most. We are the grad students of the world, the academics, researchers and general know-it-alls.
Dorks are defined by what they like. Similar to the nerd, we dive in much deeper than the average person, but the topics we pursue tend to be much more nontraditional. We learn to speak Klingon or Elvish or know the plot lines, writers, and artists of all the major comic books and most of the minor ones.
Geeks are defined by what they can do. We may not know as much as the nerd on any given topic, but we can do more with what we know. We can hook up a home theater, fix a computer, or super-charge a lawnmower. We are the tinkerers, programmers, and garage inventors.
With geeks, there is an obsession with the technology of things. You don't necessarily have to be a dork to be a geek. As pointed out before, someone who has five old PCs running Linux, and SGI box for no good reason and a collection of synths is CLEARLY a geek, whether they are a big dark skinned thug or a whimpy emo white boy.
Neptune uses the word 'nerd' . . . but obviouusly they are not nerds . . . (nerd being generally a dorkier geek)
I know quite a few guys that went from skinny computer nerd to fit ladies men. I'm not kidding. I could go down the list. 2 are programmers (one formerly at Midway Games, who made mortal combat for those not geeky enough to know). They go to the gym and sit with ladies in hottubs at home. Looks don't matter. That's what makes the Neptunes so great. They are the image of the new class of ultra-cool geeks. And you can sure as hell bet thay are much, much geekier and likely know quite a bit more about electronics and computers than you.
Just a quick note: I am not a fan. I listen to folks like Elliot Smith, Fennez and recently Interpol, though I am real flighty when it comes to music.
Plato was 400 years before the church . . . or was that your point?
That was my point. See point one in that post.
Originally posted by thuh Freak
i dont tend to think of musicians as geeks.
I agree (see my first post where I mentioned musicians). I do think music is borderline. I would call a guitar player who is obsessed with knowing the technique a geek. I would not call folks like Creed geeks. Losers, but not geeks. But in these posts I am specifically referring to geeky musicians--those that geek out on electronics.
How did you end up casting Frances McDormand?
EC: We met Holly Hunter and liked her but... she wasn't available because she was doing a play in New York.
JC: But she and Fran were room-mates at the time, in the Bronx. Holly went back and told Fran, I can't do this movie but you should go and get an audition.
EC: She said, there are a couple of geeks you should meet.
http://www.coenbrothers.net/interviewblood.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek
Originally posted by stupider...likeafox
And it may help save you talking past each other if you took the time to define terms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek
This is exactly my point. Obsessive interest in how something works is what makes someone a geek. Plain and simple, regardless of exterior.
Originally posted by thuh Freak
but its still not a good pickup line for chix: "hey baby, want me to program your microprocessor?," doesn't really help the situation out.
Actually, I think electronics have entered the realm of the car engine, where more and more women look at it as an attractive masculine interest that they are shut out of. They giggle about it on the phone to one another, and see it as competition for time. Women get very attracted when men talk about gear. Even the really stupid ones. The internet boom really launched this trend back in the mid-nineties, and by 2000 it was a full-blown reality. I don't know where you guys were hanging out that you missed this, but apparently it was the wrong place at the wrong time.
Note: Don't think I'm saying women aren't geeks. Some of my closest women friends are geeks, from video editor to Lain types and beyond.
Actually, I think electronics have entered the realm of the car engine, where more and more women look at it as an attractive masculine interest that they are shut out of. They giggle about it on the phone to one another, and see it as competition for time. Women get very attracted when men talk about gear
Shhhhh! you can't give away my secrets! Actualy here on PV the Male showoff factor can take many forms. Some guys uses jewelery. Others use their clothing style, by that i mean beiing able to wear a pink cordinated outfit and still act like a thug.
And then there is me. Flash the skinny cell phone, if that doesnt work 30Gb iPod does it everytime!!!!!!!!! Then mention price, they complain. I say "well it help me transfer small versions of video i edit". they go you work with cameras? And i gots em.
but I like the defintins for a geek. My girlfriend told me i am a geek. Her reasoning is that i would be a nerd if all i did were my countless projects. But, she says since I'm so popular, and that I'm always nigga-riggin stuff that I am a geek.
You both are hitting and missing the mark with your points.
The fact now is that Geek is Chic. This makes the Geek look also chic. Everything that gains cool factor in society has posers. Hell, I wish I were a geek, I'm more of a nerd with geek tendencies when it comes to photography. Also a recovering dork.
But dorkiness and geekiness are important parts of hip-hop culture. Anime, kung-fu movies, little scrawny black kids that have no outlet except to mess around with something alone until they are the fing geek of it, and in an environment that forces them to front a line to others to survive, and if they do? then their geekiness becomes cool. Not all hip-hop is geek though.
Geeks are now valued, because they are the ones who can innovate in an environment that accelerates exponentially. Those that were making fun of them decades ago now have to work in proximity and become reliant on geeks. Thus geekiness is related as good, mixed with other possible redeeming qualities, geeks become people.
The geeks, and dorks that learn to be entertainers also help make geek/ and sometimes dork cool. They come up with something fun or innovative and and introduce the masses to geek and dork culture. (Example) the D&D references made by Weezer, Kung fu references made by Wu-tang, Kung-fu references made my Tarentino. If anyone is a dork, Tarentino is a dork. But he makes some cool fing movies, that makes him cool.
These days as always cool is about what you do, and today if what you do is geeky, then it is cool.
Originally posted by LiquidR
The fact now is that Geek is Chic. This makes the Geek look also chic
Geek chic is chic. Geekdom isn't chic.
Nowadays, at least AFAICT, there are all kinds of "Geeks" who aren't "tech weenies", if you take my meaning. I think the same stigma exists in corporate circles where the people who want power, don't in any way want to be considered or associated with the tech guys in their company. Not unless they want to be an IT Director or something.
It's as if they think that giving the appearance of being technologically knowledgeable, will pigeon-hole them into a dead-end career / image. Retarded if you ask me. I myself have the image among my friends and family of the "resident geek" who can help them figure out all things software (despite the fact they all use Win bl0Wz (damn censors)) and so my help is limited to things like MS Office and installing FW cards). But at the same time, none of them would consider me dorky or nerdy in the traditional sense.
I think people earn that "uber geek" reputation when their lives become so one-dimensional that all they talk about / think about is their next computer or the latest [anime] porn icon. A good hint that you may have reached this point of no return, is if you regularly wear say... Ars Technica t-shirts. Or maybe you have TechTV "Screensavers" bumper sticker. I caught part of that show last night trying to go to sleep...
...there was like 16 or 17 year old kid who called in on his video chat and was like "Duuude, I uh, fried my CPU by trying to duct tape a meat thermometer to it. Can you help?" THAT kid, is a nerd / dork / whatever you want to call it. You could tell he hadn't been away from his computer in at least 36 hours (except maybe to eat).
Originally posted by Eugene
Geek chic is chic. Geekdom isn't chic.
I think this is the entirety of my point, with the addition, now, that some Geeks made cool stuff . . . and eventually thus followed the LOOK that is now 'Geek-Chic'
and I guess some of those geeks were hip hoppers . . .