This case design is older than dirt and Mr. Ives must be taking happy pills because I have seen better designs posted in these forums. I think it will be used as both a G4 version this August and a G5 version next year with only minor cosmetic differences. I was really hoping for an Xserve "tower" type of design. It looks more like a PC knockoff of a Mac with the wierd metal drive bays among all the surrounding plastic. It just doesn't look right at all. Very odd. It seems FireWire 2 is MIA too. I don't think the specs are going to make up for the ugly exterior. I have a bad feeling about this...
1) There is no conspiracy to 'delay' releasing the new product to clear out inventory.....that's not how ANYONE does business with a deprciating product like a computer. The longer it sits on the shelf, the less valuable it becomes. In Apple's case, they will do what they always do: offer deals on old products when new ones hit the market.
2) There is no G5. There is no G5. There is no G5. POWER4 is NOT coming to the Mac. POWER4 is NOT coming to the Mac. POWER4 is NOT coming to the Mac. Processor development is an open secret, and the 'open secret' coming from Motorola is that they have basically given up.
3) The shiny metal face is OBVIOUSLY the punchout for the new drive bays. This thing will be clean and plastic-clad just like every ElCap and ElCap derivative. The drive doors are missing.
I give up. People will believe anything but actual reason.
[quote]Originally posted by Me, myself, back on page 6:
[QB] However, this channel clearing wait game fiasco IS NOTHING MORE THAN AN INTERNET FORUM/CHAT phenomena created in the minds of people who don't understand a damned thing a about the market. If they're not here now, it's cause they're not ready yet. The odds of clearing-out a powermac are not good and they get worse every day. The MARGINS on ALL POWERMACS are EXTREMELY HIGH. IF the replacement were ready, the old machines would get a serious markdown and get dumped to a few major institutional buyers around the world (still at a nice profit)
So get over it, there is no waiting game, geez!<hr></blockquote>
glad to find at least a few cookies with some sense.
Interesting idea about the optical drives/power button assembly's orientation being alterable. I don't know how well the box itself works for rackmounting, isn't a 3rd party mounting kit required?
Also, though this may be a test box, and therefore the aesthetics are not the final rendering, I'm curious if the shiny aluminum plate looks better when the rest of the box isn't washed out by poor photography? Any PS cats out there able to do a quick layer on the external photo to color the box's plastic the appropriate silver tone? It may be this is a final case, and the scheme looks more complimentary with accurate color representation.
[quote]Originally posted by Yet Another Registration:
<strong>
3) The shiny metal face is OBVIOUSLY the punchout for the new drive bays. This thing will be clean and plastic-clad just like every ElCap and ElCap derivative. The drive doors are missing.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Except that the power button is already flush with the metal panel and it shipped with a film over the metal panel to protect it. This is how its going to look as shipped.
<strong>Is it just me, or is there a headless man found near the upper left corner of the slightly distorted "new case" picture? Or is it a reflection? I can see a man's right arm from the elbow to the shoulder; the guy's wearing a short sleeve shirt. The missing head might explain the pixelating in the upper handle -- the result of a quick erasure.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yep there is somone there...it looks a though his head has indeed been edited out...
TING5, i feel your pain, do what i do, when people talk (or write as is the case) about the G5, i pretend they are just reffering to a "next Generation chip". i agree with you that a 85XX moto processor is ultra unlikely, nigh impossible if for no other reason jag isnt 64 bit, and "eleven" isnt expected until late 2004.
Once again I am gonna toss this out for all you 'last post' readers
The metal plate is the ONLY piece of the new case. The rest is filler.
Reasons it is on this unit:
? it is the only cd over within Apple that would support dual optical drives.
? it contains the power button, reset and programmers hole (that is not an audio jack), which are required to operate the machine.
? the metal piece is covered in static plastic. a tin cut out place holder would never get such treatment
? the mechanism for the CD door, unlike the rest of the case, would require some Industrial Design, the rest is just cobbled parts
Lastly, my own observation. Apple would never produce a materials conflicted version of like this. There is no reason to have a metal cover like this ala Graphite G4s when the QS covers were a step forward.
I passed this around to 2 ID (industrial designer) clients in idle chit-chat and they bot agreed separately, without my input, it looked very much like a test bed and what one referred to as a 'parts fitting example'
This same client also looked at the internals and thought the metals looked to rough and lacking final detail to be production.
They both admitted it was difficult from the photo but both were emphatic that this not would be the shipping case.
I believe one of the EE types around here stated that heat output is roughly proportional to the square of the clock rate. If you double a chip's clock, you get four times the heat. We expect a 0.13 micron G4, but if it doesn't materialize then a 20-40% increase in clock rate would require a large heat sink. If we do get a 0.13 micron version that may give a 20-30% clock increase "for free" and we're seeing an attempt by Apple & Moto to "catch up" in terms of performance. Clock rate aside, if they've managed to lick the MPX bus bottleneck and 4 processors is suddenly viable this would also require a lot of cooling capacity. 4 1.5GHz G4s + sophisticated chipset + nv30 or Radeon9700 = a lot of heat.
These boxes are not supposed to be opened. It seems somebody was bold enough to do so, despite whatever anti-tampering mechanism (some kind of tape perhaps) that would indicate whether or not the case were opened (when returned to Apple).
If tape or something similarly vulnerable to an accidental removal or displacement (I wouldn't open one of these boxes unless I felt I could say that the anti-tampering mechanism was damaged during shipping or something.) is employed by Apple for its prototype models, then it would make sense for Apple to employ additional means to discourge individuals from looking at the motherboard. Perhaps, this huge heat sink is just another means to discourage and identify tampering? I presume, if one didn't remove it, that one couldn't see much of the motherboard?
You see, I imagine there's a percentage of people that would remove the heat sink and a percentage the would not. So, this is yet another possible means to discourage partners from tinkering where Apple doesn't want them.
If I were Apple, and I only had a couple of dozen of prototype models out and about, and of course, if I placed such high value on secrecy as SJ does, then I would exploit the placement of the motherboard components and subcomponents themselves to identify the motherboard, and hence the 'violators'. Thus, whenever a mobo photo hits the web, I could look at the placement of the various components, refer to my references/notes, identify which prototype unit it is, and thus identify who was in possession of the prototype.
So, in short, let us consider the possibility that this heat sink merely serves to discourage someone from looking at the new mobo.
Would 4 G4s generate huge amounts of heat? Especially 4 x 1.4Ghz.
4 x 1.4 DDR G4s would be useful for Shake...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, with no FSB improvements (i.e., not Xserve DDR), then no, it wouldn't be useful. I don't think we'll see >2 CPU systems out of Apple until the FSB gets a huge kick in the ass. Remember, even 2 1.4GHz G4s will often be starved with PC2700 SDRAM, let alone 4.
*HUGE* kick in the ass...
But yes, it would kick out some serious heat. The other reason why giant heatsink doesn't help that much is that the case will still counteract the effects of the heatsink by restricting air flow. The reason a motorcycle doesn't need such a big heatsink is it gets heaps of airflow, even when sitting still.
If we're talking lots of low-temp heat, we need fans, not heatsinks. Drawing the heat away from the chip is less important than blowing it out of the case.
<strong>I believe one of the EE types around here stated that heat output is roughly proportional to the square of the clock rate. If you double a chip's clock, you get four times the heat. We expect a 0.13 micron G4, but if it doesn't materialize then a 20-40% increase in clock rate would require a large heat sink. If we do get a 0.13 micron version that may give a 20-30% clock increase "for free" and we're seeing an attempt by Apple & Moto to "catch up" in terms of performance. Clock rate aside, if they've managed to lick the MPX bus bottleneck and 4 processors is suddenly viable this would also require a lot of cooling capacity. 4 1.5GHz G4s + sophisticated chipset + nv30 or Radeon9700 = a lot of heat.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That sounds about right (heat goes with the square of the clock). But I'm curious how Apple would vent this thing. If you *need* that big of a heatsink, then you're gonna have to put something on the scale of the Xserve fans to draw that heat out of the box. I'm getting images of small insects being sucked up into those front air intakes given the size of the outflow surface.
It's gonna be loud, and it's gonna suck down power like mad. This won't be like your father's PowerMacintosh, that's for sure. Might not even be like your father's athlon...
Comments
1) There is no conspiracy to 'delay' releasing the new product to clear out inventory.....that's not how ANYONE does business with a deprciating product like a computer. The longer it sits on the shelf, the less valuable it becomes. In Apple's case, they will do what they always do: offer deals on old products when new ones hit the market.
2) There is no G5. There is no G5. There is no G5. POWER4 is NOT coming to the Mac. POWER4 is NOT coming to the Mac. POWER4 is NOT coming to the Mac. Processor development is an open secret, and the 'open secret' coming from Motorola is that they have basically given up.
3) The shiny metal face is OBVIOUSLY the punchout for the new drive bays. This thing will be clean and plastic-clad just like every ElCap and ElCap derivative. The drive doors are missing.
I give up. People will believe anything but actual reason.
ting5
[QB] However, this channel clearing wait game fiasco IS NOTHING MORE THAN AN INTERNET FORUM/CHAT phenomena created in the minds of people who don't understand a damned thing a about the market. If they're not here now, it's cause they're not ready yet. The odds of clearing-out a powermac are not good and they get worse every day. The MARGINS on ALL POWERMACS are EXTREMELY HIGH. IF the replacement were ready, the old machines would get a serious markdown and get dumped to a few major institutional buyers around the world (still at a nice profit)
So get over it, there is no waiting game, geez!<hr></blockquote>
glad to find at least a few cookies with some sense.
The problem with a 7lb 6" deep heatsink is that your heat reservoir (the CPUs, GPUs, etc.) shouldn't run hotter than say 50C. <hr></blockquote>
So which is heavier: a 7 lb aluminum heatsink or a 7 lb steel heatsink?
Also, though this may be a test box, and therefore the aesthetics are not the final rendering, I'm curious if the shiny aluminum plate looks better when the rest of the box isn't washed out by poor photography? Any PS cats out there able to do a quick layer on the external photo to color the box's plastic the appropriate silver tone? It may be this is a final case, and the scheme looks more complimentary with accurate color representation.
<strong>
3) The shiny metal face is OBVIOUSLY the punchout for the new drive bays. This thing will be clean and plastic-clad just like every ElCap and ElCap derivative. The drive doors are missing.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Except that the power button is already flush with the metal panel and it shipped with a film over the metal panel to protect it. This is how its going to look as shipped.
<strong>Is it just me, or is there a headless man found near the upper left corner of the slightly distorted "new case" picture? Or is it a reflection? I can see a man's right arm from the elbow to the shoulder; the guy's wearing a short sleeve shirt. The missing head might explain the pixelating in the upper handle -- the result of a quick erasure.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yep there is somone there...it looks a though his head has indeed been edited out...
<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/mjr22/.Pictures/arm.jpg"; target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com/mjr22/.Pictures/arm.jpg</a>; [off-site image]
Marcus
[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Marcus ]
[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: sysadmin ]</p>
Would 4 G4s generate huge amounts of heat? Especially 4 x 1.4Ghz.
4 x 1.4 DDR G4s would be useful for Shake...
The metal plate is the ONLY piece of the new case. The rest is filler.
Reasons it is on this unit:
? it is the only cd over within Apple that would support dual optical drives.
? it contains the power button, reset and programmers hole (that is not an audio jack), which are required to operate the machine.
? the metal piece is covered in static plastic. a tin cut out place holder would never get such treatment
? the mechanism for the CD door, unlike the rest of the case, would require some Industrial Design, the rest is just cobbled parts
Lastly, my own observation. Apple would never produce a materials conflicted version of like this. There is no reason to have a metal cover like this ala Graphite G4s when the QS covers were a step forward.
I passed this around to 2 ID (industrial designer) clients in idle chit-chat and they bot agreed separately, without my input, it looked very much like a test bed and what one referred to as a 'parts fitting example'
This same client also looked at the internals and thought the metals looked to rough and lacking final detail to be production.
They both admitted it was difficult from the photo but both were emphatic that this not would be the shipping case.
These boxes are not supposed to be opened. It seems somebody was bold enough to do so, despite whatever anti-tampering mechanism (some kind of tape perhaps) that would indicate whether or not the case were opened (when returned to Apple).
If tape or something similarly vulnerable to an accidental removal or displacement (I wouldn't open one of these boxes unless I felt I could say that the anti-tampering mechanism was damaged during shipping or something.) is employed by Apple for its prototype models, then it would make sense for Apple to employ additional means to discourge individuals from looking at the motherboard. Perhaps, this huge heat sink is just another means to discourage and identify tampering? I presume, if one didn't remove it, that one couldn't see much of the motherboard?
You see, I imagine there's a percentage of people that would remove the heat sink and a percentage the would not. So, this is yet another possible means to discourage partners from tinkering where Apple doesn't want them.
If I were Apple, and I only had a couple of dozen of prototype models out and about, and of course, if I placed such high value on secrecy as SJ does, then I would exploit the placement of the motherboard components and subcomponents themselves to identify the motherboard, and hence the 'violators'. Thus, whenever a mobo photo hits the web, I could look at the placement of the various components, refer to my references/notes, identify which prototype unit it is, and thus identify who was in possession of the prototype.
So, in short, let us consider the possibility that this heat sink merely serves to discourage someone from looking at the new mobo.
Eirik
<strong>Re: heatsink overkill
Would 4 G4s generate huge amounts of heat? Especially 4 x 1.4Ghz.
4 x 1.4 DDR G4s would be useful for Shake...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, with no FSB improvements (i.e., not Xserve DDR), then no, it wouldn't be useful. I don't think we'll see >2 CPU systems out of Apple until the FSB gets a huge kick in the ass. Remember, even 2 1.4GHz G4s will often be starved with PC2700 SDRAM, let alone 4.
*HUGE* kick in the ass...
But yes, it would kick out some serious heat. The other reason why giant heatsink doesn't help that much is that the case will still counteract the effects of the heatsink by restricting air flow. The reason a motorcycle doesn't need such a big heatsink is it gets heaps of airflow, even when sitting still.
If we're talking lots of low-temp heat, we need fans, not heatsinks. Drawing the heat away from the chip is less important than blowing it out of the case.
<strong>I believe one of the EE types around here stated that heat output is roughly proportional to the square of the clock rate. If you double a chip's clock, you get four times the heat. We expect a 0.13 micron G4, but if it doesn't materialize then a 20-40% increase in clock rate would require a large heat sink. If we do get a 0.13 micron version that may give a 20-30% clock increase "for free" and we're seeing an attempt by Apple & Moto to "catch up" in terms of performance. Clock rate aside, if they've managed to lick the MPX bus bottleneck and 4 processors is suddenly viable this would also require a lot of cooling capacity. 4 1.5GHz G4s + sophisticated chipset + nv30 or Radeon9700 = a lot of heat.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That sounds about right (heat goes with the square of the clock). But I'm curious how Apple would vent this thing. If you *need* that big of a heatsink, then you're gonna have to put something on the scale of the Xserve fans to draw that heat out of the box. I'm getting images of small insects being sucked up into those front air intakes given the size of the outflow surface.
It's gonna be loud, and it's gonna suck down power like mad. This won't be like your father's PowerMacintosh, that's for sure. Might not even be like your father's athlon...
Good work guys!
<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
<a href="http://www.macbidouille.com"; target="_blank">Macbidouille</a>
There is just a maintenance page with the following ( translated to English via babelfish)
[quote]
MacBidouille is moving. Find us on the forums:
forum.macbidouille.com
The site should remain to close two days. Thank you for your comprehension.
Do not forget that you can help us by making a gift! Details.
<hr></blockquote>
[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Moonraker ]
[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Moonraker ]</p>
<strong>
So which is heavier: a 7 lb aluminum heatsink or a 7 lb steel heatsink?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I hope that's supposed to be a joke?