Actually, in my opinion, the current TiBook is too thin. I recently purchased an iBook. I was looking for a current, portable Mac. In weighing the various factors between getting an iBook or a TiBook, of course price was the key point. However, another negative on the Ti side (again, this is my opinion - if you own a Ti, I'm very happy for you) was the perceived (by me!) fragility, caused mostly by its (lack of) thickness. There is a lower limit to a laptop's thickness. Just because you can go thinner, doesn't always mean you should. The current Ti design has gone beyond my thinness limit. So, as for the dual DP, thicker would definitely be fine in my eyes... plus, they could abandon the slot-loading optical and put a superdrive in there.
As for weight, no, I wouldn't care if they had to add a half or full pound to do DP. It's pretty light right now. Another pound wouldn't be too bad, in my opinion.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree whole heartedly, and price is not a factor for me. Got more than enough cash in the bank, and I have no plans for that cash. The Ti, I already have one, is IMHO too thin, or fragile feeling. I will give this Ti to the parent units so they can e-mail us as they travel about. I will get another Book, they are very handy on trips to download pictures to and to sort them out on a decent sized screen. Which Book I get is really based on what Apple does with the Books of tomorrow.
Hmm, well thanks for the speculation. I've been waiting to buy since the DVI line was introduced, but are first now beginning to feel the urgent need for a PowerBook.
It seems that everybody agrees that either we get new PBs by Seybold or Apple Expo Paris. (Or by october/november, but then it might as well be january)
I think i'm gonna by an 800 if nothing new comes by Seybold or Paris.
As I posted in another (locked) thread, I don't think anyone should buy a powerbook unless Apple drops the prices back to their 2199 and up price points. There's nothing in these new models to warrant the price increase. Higher res displays were in use a solid 18 months before they got into the TiBook, and the PPC parts they use are quite inexpensive. Sure the case is nice, but if they could sell it at 2199 before, there's really nothing in it now that warrants an extra 300. Not the CPU, not the GPU, not the display, certainly not RAM... Well you get the point.
It's an important lesson for Apple to learn, they can't just indiscriminately raise prices and expect us to buy whatever they put in front of us. (ok it was a nice update, but as with most thing a little analysis shows that the actual costs did not increase substantially)
They seem to be grudgingly accepting that lesson with the e/iMacs: the iMacs getting price dropped( ?? more like restored!) and the eMacs bumped and expanded for the consumer. Even the PM has spawned a decent DP (with L3 Cache!) entry level.
Don't buy the Ti untill prices and specs* become more reasonable.
* Sorry, but anything under 800 should be banished from the prosumer heap, there's no good reason why a 667 is still offered in a pro machine, none, especially not at that obscene price).
Wait, wait, and wait some more! When machines don't sell, things start to change.
I expect a update of the tibook in october november : basic model reaching 800 mhz and top end 933 or even 1 ghz. Same graphic card, bigger HD. But nothing more.
<strong>As I posted in another (locked) thread, I don't think anyone should buy a powerbook unless Apple drops the prices back to their 2199 and up price points. There's nothing in these new models to warrant the price increase. Higher res displays were in use a solid 18 months before they got into the TiBook, and the PPC parts they use are quite inexpensive. Sure the case is nice, but if they could sell it at 2199 before, there's really nothing in it now that warrants an extra 300. Not the CPU, not the GPU, not the display, certainly not RAM... Well you get the point.
It's an important lesson for Apple to learn, they can't just indiscriminately raise prices and expect us to buy whatever they put in front of us. (ok it was a nice update, but as with most thing a little analysis shows that the actual costs did not increase substantially)
They seem to be grudgingly accepting that lesson with the e/iMacs: the iMacs getting price dropped( ?? more like restored!) and the eMacs bumped and expanded for the consumer. Even the PM has spawned a decent DP (with L3 Cache!) entry level.
Don't buy the Ti untill prices and specs* become more reasonable.
* Sorry, but anything under 800 should be banished from the prosumer heap, there's no good reason why a 667 is still offered in a pro machine, none, especially not at that obscene price).
Wait, wait, and wait some more! When machines don't sell, things start to change.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Um, this could be simple economics. I don't know how PB sales are going, but I know generally they do very well. This might be simply supply and demand - if Apple can sell all they can make at the higher price, more power to them. They need to make a profit somewhere. They're certainly not making much off PM sales lately (although this new batch may help some). They may be overpriced to you, but if others make the judgement that it's worth the money then buy they will. I have to assume Apple knows what they are doing with their pricepoints, in general (the Cube being an obvious exception, but it was a new product with no track record to draw on).
On the other hand, they may be totally out of touch. It's happened before. Degrees in business management and economics don't guarantee sound judgement.
What apple should do is put a branding iron on the bottom and when it is used and it gets too hot, it brands whatever it is on. So, when you are on an airplane doing video editing, BAM: An Apple Logo on the Airplane tray table <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
Well as a whole the laptop industry has increased sales over the last few quarters, whereas Apples laptop lineup has been losing sales. They need to upgrade both models soon and make them more compelling, or else risk losing out on this expanding market.
More people are buying laptops lately versus desktops, now would be a good time for Apple to expand it's laptop lineup with one or two new models. Moving the iBook to a G4 and a 13" and 14.1" screen and introducing an eBook with the G3 and a 12" or smaller screen at under $1K would be a smart move I think. Then perhaps a larger desktop replacement laptop would be nice, although that's a pretty small niche.
As for the Powerbook everything about it is pretty much on the money except for some small details (sturdiness, Airport reception etc.). The price needs to be lowered right now but other than that, continual incremental upgrades is all it needs. Dual processors may very well be possible depending on how cool the 0.13 micron G4s run, that would definitely be a sweet machine. It's the rest of Apple's laptop lineup that really needs to be looked at.
How bout this for next spring:
Powerbook DP
Dual 1GHz w/ 167mhz FSB (0.13micron), PC2700 RAM, ATA100, ATi 9000Pro mobile w/ 64MB VRAM, superdrive. $3000.
Exactly, laptops are the one area of the computer market that continue to show growth. It's also the are where Mac buyer's sacrifice the least expandability relative to compuer buyers. Laptop sales should be the last area of mac sales to suffer: there is little doubt that even the PPC is still viable in this application, the expansion options remain ostensibly equal to their PC competition, and the market as a whole shows decent performance in this one area. iBooks continue to do well, but PowerBooks have not been doing well since the last update. That's a double whammy against Apple because it's an area where they don't really have external impediments to their performance and it's an area where the market is good.
It doesn't take an MBA to see that the units simply costy too much for what they offer (besides style -- but consumers place other factors ahead of style, if they didn't Apple might have 95% market share)
It is just the price holding me back. I have a Pismo 400 so to make an upgrade worthwhile (ie. last 2 years) I need the Ti800. Currently it's £2800 vs £2100 for the 667.
I'm hoping the Ti1000 will push the Ti800 to the 'low end' price point, although no doubt the high-end will get a must have feature!
<strong>I had a dual-USB iBook and I sold it to buy one of the new DVI PowerBooks. I did baby it at first but I find it to be rugged enough; the case is still flawless while my iBook was all scratched to hell after two months. I would love it if the Ti were LIGHTER! And THINNER! And I like the slot-loader.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bruno, you sold me! Anyone care to buy a Japanese language iBook 500? I'm off to the Soho Apple Store..... They DON'T DO makeovers.
They handle all media better, and it's easier to implement a force/manual eject on them.
The latter, especially, is no trifling matter what with the confluence of both recent copy-protection schemes and upcoming schemes of more malignant purpose.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I just hope Apple has those new IBM 64bit chips that have been in the news by the time I purchase a new Powerbook spring 2004 (end of school- gotta use the edu discount.) 1.5+GHz would be nice as long as the chip doesn't make my Powerbook my hotplate at the same time, though watching a DVD and making popcorn at the same time would be interesting. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> I don't care where the Pentiums are by then, as long as I can encrypt and burn DVDs quickly, surf the web and do some CAD work at the same time, I'd be happy. A 16" Widescreen LCD with workstation GPU, 1-2GB DDR RAM (including faster subsystem), and the Superdrive would be desired features on this end.
(Remember I am looking a little farther down the road.)
Comments
I'll take a dual 800.
Heck make it a dual 1 Ghz.
That would also leave room for a G4 iBook,
<strong>
Actually, in my opinion, the current TiBook is too thin. I recently purchased an iBook. I was looking for a current, portable Mac. In weighing the various factors between getting an iBook or a TiBook, of course price was the key point. However, another negative on the Ti side (again, this is my opinion - if you own a Ti, I'm very happy for you) was the perceived (by me!) fragility, caused mostly by its (lack of) thickness. There is a lower limit to a laptop's thickness. Just because you can go thinner, doesn't always mean you should. The current Ti design has gone beyond my thinness limit. So, as for the dual DP, thicker would definitely be fine in my eyes... plus, they could abandon the slot-loading optical and put a superdrive in there.
As for weight, no, I wouldn't care if they had to add a half or full pound to do DP. It's pretty light right now. Another pound wouldn't be too bad, in my opinion.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree whole heartedly, and price is not a factor for me. Got more than enough cash in the bank, and I have no plans for that cash. The Ti, I already have one, is IMHO too thin, or fragile feeling. I will give this Ti to the parent units so they can e-mail us as they travel about. I will get another Book, they are very handy on trips to download pictures to and to sort them out on a decent sized screen. Which Book I get is really based on what Apple does with the Books of tomorrow.
It seems that everybody agrees that either we get new PBs by Seybold or Apple Expo Paris. (Or by october/november, but then it might as well be january)
I think i'm gonna by an 800 if nothing new comes by Seybold or Paris.
It's an important lesson for Apple to learn, they can't just indiscriminately raise prices and expect us to buy whatever they put in front of us. (ok it was a nice update, but as with most thing a little analysis shows that the actual costs did not increase substantially)
They seem to be grudgingly accepting that lesson with the e/iMacs: the iMacs getting price dropped( ?? more like restored!) and the eMacs bumped and expanded for the consumer. Even the PM has spawned a decent DP (with L3 Cache!) entry level.
Don't buy the Ti untill prices and specs* become more reasonable.
* Sorry, but anything under 800 should be banished from the prosumer heap, there's no good reason why a 667 is still offered in a pro machine, none, especially not at that obscene price).
Wait, wait, and wait some more! When machines don't sell, things start to change.
Counterpoint:
Do buy a Ti. They are the best revs of possibly the best laptop apple has ever made and worth every penny.
<strong>As I posted in another (locked) thread, I don't think anyone should buy a powerbook unless Apple drops the prices back to their 2199 and up price points. There's nothing in these new models to warrant the price increase. Higher res displays were in use a solid 18 months before they got into the TiBook, and the PPC parts they use are quite inexpensive. Sure the case is nice, but if they could sell it at 2199 before, there's really nothing in it now that warrants an extra 300. Not the CPU, not the GPU, not the display, certainly not RAM... Well you get the point.
It's an important lesson for Apple to learn, they can't just indiscriminately raise prices and expect us to buy whatever they put in front of us. (ok it was a nice update, but as with most thing a little analysis shows that the actual costs did not increase substantially)
They seem to be grudgingly accepting that lesson with the e/iMacs: the iMacs getting price dropped( ?? more like restored!) and the eMacs bumped and expanded for the consumer. Even the PM has spawned a decent DP (with L3 Cache!) entry level.
Don't buy the Ti untill prices and specs* become more reasonable.
* Sorry, but anything under 800 should be banished from the prosumer heap, there's no good reason why a 667 is still offered in a pro machine, none, especially not at that obscene price).
Wait, wait, and wait some more! When machines don't sell, things start to change.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Um, this could be simple economics. I don't know how PB sales are going, but I know generally they do very well. This might be simply supply and demand - if Apple can sell all they can make at the higher price, more power to them. They need to make a profit somewhere. They're certainly not making much off PM sales lately (although this new batch may help some). They may be overpriced to you, but if others make the judgement that it's worth the money then buy they will. I have to assume Apple knows what they are doing with their pricepoints, in general (the Cube being an obvious exception, but it was a new product with no track record to draw on).
On the other hand, they may be totally out of touch. It's happened before. Degrees in business management and economics don't guarantee sound judgement.
[Edit: typos]
[ 08-15-2002: Message edited by: TJM ]</p>
More people are buying laptops lately versus desktops, now would be a good time for Apple to expand it's laptop lineup with one or two new models. Moving the iBook to a G4 and a 13" and 14.1" screen and introducing an eBook with the G3 and a 12" or smaller screen at under $1K would be a smart move I think. Then perhaps a larger desktop replacement laptop would be nice, although that's a pretty small niche.
As for the Powerbook everything about it is pretty much on the money except for some small details (sturdiness, Airport reception etc.). The price needs to be lowered right now but other than that, continual incremental upgrades is all it needs. Dual processors may very well be possible depending on how cool the 0.13 micron G4s run, that would definitely be a sweet machine. It's the rest of Apple's laptop lineup that really needs to be looked at.
How bout this for next spring:
Powerbook DP
Dual 1GHz w/ 167mhz FSB (0.13micron), PC2700 RAM, ATA100, ATi 9000Pro mobile w/ 64MB VRAM, superdrive. $3000.
Powerbook SP
Single 1GHz w/ 167mhz FSB (0.13 micron), PC2700 RAM, ATA100, GForce4Go w/ 32MB VRAM, combo drive, $2100.
[ 08-15-2002: Message edited by: hotboxd ]</p>
It doesn't take an MBA to see that the units simply costy too much for what they offer (besides style -- but consumers place other factors ahead of style, if they didn't Apple might have 95% market share)
I'm hoping the Ti1000 will push the Ti800 to the 'low end' price point, although no doubt the high-end will get a must have feature!
Blackcat
<strong>I had a dual-USB iBook and I sold it to buy one of the new DVI PowerBooks. I did baby it at first but I find it to be rugged enough; the case is still flawless while my iBook was all scratched to hell after two months. I would love it if the Ti were LIGHTER! And THINNER! And I like the slot-loader.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bruno, you sold me! Anyone care to buy a Japanese language iBook 500? I'm off to the Soho Apple Store..... They DON'T DO makeovers.
<strong>Why am I coming out as countb?
Blackcat</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's your true identity? :eek:
<strong>Trays are better, even for laptops.
They handle all media better, and it's easier to implement a force/manual eject on them.
The latter, especially, is no trifling matter what with the confluence of both recent copy-protection schemes and upcoming schemes of more malignant purpose.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Agreed. Bring back the cup holders!
<strong>
It's your true identity? :eek: </strong><hr></blockquote>
Well yeah, but I've never registered as countb on AI.
(Remember I am looking a little farther down the road.)
<strong>
Counterpoint:
Do buy a Ti. They are the best revs of possibly the best laptop apple has ever made and worth every penny.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Best Revs
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
The current Ti PBs may be the prettiest laptops, but they are many steps back from the G3 PBs and only just keeping up with Pentium laptops for speed.
I bought my first Apple laptop in November of 1989 and bought a new laptop in 92,94,96 and finally the Mainstreet in 1998.
My G3 Mainstreet,now at 500 Mhz, maybe a little slower than the new G4 but it blows the G4s away in versatility.
[ 08-16-2002: Message edited by: MrBillData ]</p>
<strong>
I bought my first Apple laptop in November of 1989 and bought a new laptop in 92,94,96 and finally the Mainstreet in 1998.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You mean Wallstreet, don't you?