Good things to come at MWSF

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  • Reply 21 of 165
    i disagree. jobs used an expo to intro the new imac. i think the fact that the powermac bumps are happening incognito, without even a press conference is an indication that they're not supposed to be considered "big" changes. every non-expo powermac bump seems like a placeholder.



    i have to think that there's going to be an "expo big" powermac announcement. it's just taking much longer than any of us would like it to. maybe i'm being optimistic. but from a marketing standpoint, these updates feel like they're intended to fly under the radar.
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  • Reply 22 of 165
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    [quote]Originally posted by admactanium:

    <strong>i disagree. jobs used an expo to intro the new imac. i think the fact that the powermac bumps are happening incognito, without even a press conference is an indication that they're not supposed to be considered "big" changes. every non-expo powermac bump seems like a placeholder.</strong><hr></blockquote>Yes, but they have shown a willingness to call a press special event to intro new products, like the xserve, icebook, and ipod. A PowerMac with a new chip like a G5 or Power4 could just as easily be at one of those special events as at a MacWorld.
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  • Reply 23 of 165
    jcgjcg Posts: 777member
    For Apple to ride IBM's wave, IBM needs more customers. When Apple killed the clones, and IBM canceled the CHRP, the development of the PPC as a seriouse contender for the desktop died.



    Things are different now. Linex is a viable option for the desktop, and IBM has been investing in this OS for their server market. The question is do they think that there is a market for PPC Linex boxes in thier desktop line-up, and how fast can they come out with a chip that can compete with Intel's offerings.



    I think there are some good signs pointing to this. IBM has had Nintendo ad PPC identity to the Game Cube. IBM and Sony are working together on the PS3 processor. While this does not directly apply to the desktop market, it does point to IBM working to build brand identity for the PPC processors that they build. Another sign is IBM's stated commitment to Linex. Add to that the anouncement of the desktop Power chip, and one could speculate that IBM is going to try to take on Microsoft/Intel in the platform wars once again.



    What I would be listening for would be the rebirth of the CHRP mother boards from IBM. This would open the market for PPC chips in the desktop market, and increase the R&D money bieng dedicated to the platform. It is possible that IBM and Apple could sell enough computers together to make a dent in the Intel/Microsoft alliance, but I think that they will need other computer makers helping them reach customers that they aren't focusing on, such as consumer level towers as opposed to All-In-Ones.
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  • Reply 24 of 165
    gargar Posts: 1,201member
    [quote]Originally posted by NeM:

    <strong>I don't believe these hypes about the big expos. If they wanted to they could have shown us the new towers during MWNY. They didn't. I think this is because they want to be able to release products regardless of when the big shows are, and stop this "waiting for the next expo" disease. So that sales will be more even thorughout the year.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    NeM is right, it gifs Apple more freedom to release a product when the strategic components are available in enough quantanties, so the downgrade we suffered some years ago with the G4 wouldn't be necessary. (how would it makes you feel when you order your brandnew G5 and Apple can't deliver because of "physical shortages of CPU's".



    "Sorry dude, instead we deliver you a brandnew G4/1800 QP and a free Ipod for the same price, like your hair though"



    Btw: I don't think these new DP G4's are a stop gap.

    These machines are a evolutionairy process

    distinquising the Pro-line from the Consumer models

    in a great and simple way.

    They are not the panic machines of the summer of 2000 when we got G4/500DP machines without a operating system that supported it... (is this correct English?) :o



    [ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: gar ]</p>
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  • Reply 25 of 165
    wormboywormboy Posts: 220member
    I don't know what to think. There are good arguements both ways:



    In the buy now camp, we have hints that 1.4 GHz chips were expected and will probably come in January. The idea in this camp is that we can expect about 2 more non-trival, but non-breathtaking upgrades in the next 12-15 month frame, followed by a sudden shift in design to accommodate a G5/Power4lite-thingy. The purchase approach with this time frame for releases would have me buy a machine with the intent of a 2 year lifespan, and jump into the new architechture for the mature 2nd revision 21-24 months later.



    In the wait camp, we have a new power4lite/G5 thingy at MWSF. Under these conditions, I would jump into the rev 1 machine right after the new year (as I did with the B&W 400 rev 1 which I will be replaceing). Now, normally, I would dismiss this second possibility out of hand as being hopelessly hopeful. However, one aspect of this situation bugs me, and I've had a hard time putting my finger on it.



    But now I recognize what it is: These mirrored drive bay machines are yikes!v2. The parallels between these 167MHz machines and the yikes G3/G4 hybrid are striking. Apple released the G4 on a G3 motherboard as a rev 1 G4 machine three years ago. The hybrid design was an interim solution, a machine that was simply a signpost on the path to the real G4 (sawtooth), and the yikes machine was relatively short-lived! I fear that these machines might be the same. An obvious shift in technology without a great shift in processor design. My feeling is that the new motherboard as it was designed to deal with the next gen. processor was meant to accommodate firewire2, airport2, 'gigawire', AGP8x, or (more likely) HT. Since that tech. was not quite ready, Apple made the decision to save some bucks by not including the new processor (if its ready, that is) and field test the motherboard bone structure with the 7450 instead.



    Like I said: I don't know what to think. Both paths are reasonable to my eyes. But I know I don't see the whole picture.



    Oh, and for the record, I am definitely in the camp that feels that this was solid upgrade for the Powermac lineup. One of these beasts will give you absolutely nothing to be insecure about. It is a well-balanced machine (despite what some hare trigger whiners say about the overwhelmed FSB--other than cases of careful Altivec optimization--rare in real code I'm afraid--the bus is up to the task in today's machine. Yes, it's slower than the Northwood bus, but it has much less work to do! Far fewer system tasks are mediated by it that on a PC.)



    [ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: wormboy ]</p>
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  • Reply 26 of 165
    I just wish that apple just for ones could slam the world with a monster machine. Guess we'll never se the day... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />



    Ideal senario: Curren macs 18gflops, right. At mwsf in january apple slams the world with a 1000gflop machine whiping out all other competition.



    Kill the G4!!!
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  • Reply 27 of 165
    cliveclive Posts: 720member
    [quote]chipgeek quoted:

    <strong>Another piece of potential "evidence," which may just be an unrelated

    coincidence, is that the next version of OS X will no longer boot into

    Mac OS 9. The next release of OS X, a.k.a. "Pinot," is expected to

    arrive at Macworld 2003, the same date I've seen it said that IBM's

    new 64-bit desktop chip will make its debut in a Mac. It does seem

    possible that OS X could add support for another chip in the PowerPC

    family, and that Apple may not want to bother spending resources to

    get OS 9 to work with it:</strong><hr></blockquote>



    ChipGeek seemed sensible, until I read this bit and realised that the writer had pretty much no clue about Macs.



    X won't boot 9.x!? Ok, maybe the hardware won't, but an OS booting another OS?



    Anyway, utter nonsense. Apple won't release a version of X without Classic within the next five years. And Apple won't release a desktop machine that won't boot 9.x within 18 months.
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  • Reply 28 of 165
    cliveclive Posts: 720member
    [quote]Originally posted by xype:

    <strong>Who expected OS X to be such a nice piece of software a few years back?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I *did* expect it to be, unfortunately I'm still waiting for reality to catch up.
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  • Reply 29 of 165
    andersanders Posts: 6,523member
    Three more letters:



    H A L



    Some numbers:



    8 5 4 5



    and something to drink:



    T E A



    and a picture



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  • Reply 29 of 165
    I still believe. My family has spent a lot on APple hardware despite being unhappy with it. The recent IBM news is definitely encouraging....64-bit PowerPC w/Altivec-compatible VMX (the original name for Altivec was VMX), scaled down processor for destop and entry-level workstations. I guess now it's just a matter of time before we see some rewards. Apple has the operating system to cement things with, and they have the technology. We just need to see it.
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  • Reply 29 of 165
    jcgjcg Posts: 777member
    [quote]Originally posted by Clive:

    <strong>

    ...Apple won't release a version of X without Classic within the next five years. And Apple won't release a desktop machine that won't boot 9.x within 18 months.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I disagree, Apple will drop OS 9 booting as soon as they think that they can, that way they dont have to wast development time and money to make it work. Doing so will also increase the install base of OS X.
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  • Reply 32 of 165
    torifiletorifile Posts: 4,024member
    kickaha,

    what's Oct 15th?
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  • Reply 33 of 165
    overhopeoverhope Posts: 1,123member
    [quote]Originally posted by JCG:

    <strong>



    I disagree, Apple will drop OS 9 booting as soon as they think that they can, that way they dont have to wast development time and money to make it work. Doing so will also increase the install base of OS X.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    As long ago as May SJ was saying OS 9 was dead from a developers' standpoint,, and I believe that OS 9 work at Apple is virtually non-existent.



    9.2.2 is as stable as it can be and works in Classic. That's as much as Apple really need it to do: a requirement for native 9 booting can only make hardware development more work than it needs to be.
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  • Reply 34 of 165
    jbljbl Posts: 555member
    [quote]Originally posted by torifile:

    <strong>kickaha,

    what's Oct 15th?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    On October 15th IBM will give details about a new desktop chip based on the Power4 at some conference. I (and many others around here) assume that this chip will make its way into future PowerMacs. Hopefully this presentation will give us some details like targeted ship dates and targeted Spec benchmarks. If they tell us that these chips are sampling, you might want to hold off your next PowerMac purchase a few months.
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  • Reply 35 of 165
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    [quote]Originally posted by NeM:

    <strong>I don't believe these hypes about the big expos. If they wanted to they could have shown us the new towers during MWNY. They didn't. I think this is because they want to be able to release products regardless of when the big shows are, and stop this "waiting for the next expo" disease. So that sales will be more even thorughout the year.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Only it's going to back-fire on them. The trend is already starting. Apple releases a new machine and it sells like hot-cakes for 2 months! Then it drops off FAST!!! iMac 15"LCD sure went cold pretty fast. TiBook too. eMac sure got updated to superdrive status and a CPU bump in a hurry. Why? Because Apple's update cycle is TOO LONG. Either they start updating at LEAST 2 products at every show, or they start bumping EVERY product roughly every 3-4 months. Otherwise, people will just start to wait after 2 months have gone by because they know something has to get updated soon, and if it looks good they might go for that instead.



    You cannot strategically time updates other than to get new stuff out for the major buying seasons. Consumers will not obey the buying schedule you want to put them on. The further behind you fall, the longer they'll wait. Otherwise, expos are the only good timed releases for at least they bring a lot of exposure and free advertising with them.



    If you want to really break the buy/wait cycle and even out sales throughout the year, then you have to update machines A LOT MORE OFTEN/REGULARLY than Apple does. Even if it's just HDD's and faster/more RAM.



    Lower prices wouldn't hurt either. When you're spending a lot (too much) on a quickly depreciating item, it doesn't take much to make one think twice about said purchase, "Maybe I'll wait a little longer." If the prices were more reasonable, more people would just think, "What the Hay? I'll pick one up today!"



    [ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
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  • Reply 36 of 165
    [quote]Originally posted by gar:

    <strong>





    Btw: I don't think these new DP G4's are a stop gap.



    [ 08-14-2002: Message edited by: gar ]</strong><hr></blockquote>



    ... hmmmm, where is it, oh yeah, here it is:



    "Stop-Gap: noun - A hardware speedbump that Steve Jobs is too ashamed to personally announce".



    "Mofo of a Stop-Gap: noun - A hardware speedbump that neither Steve Jobs, nor the Phil Schiller buffer-state, nor even any personage at Apple dare give face time to"



    Please stop the yah-yah Apple cheer-leading, nobody cares.
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  • Reply 37 of 165
    pscatespscates Posts: 5,847member
    But if everyone took this approach ("I'm gonna wait another 5 months because...") Apple would NEVER sell anything, and be even smaller and more niche-y than they are!



    Anyone see a pattern emerging here (and other places)? It's kinda funny (and I've been here a couple of years now, so I'm allowed to comment on it):



    We are ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS let down and deflated after a Macworld Expo keynote. No matter how much (or little) Apple hypes it, what the rumor sites say, what we predict/hope for here, etc.



    It's never enough. Always something wrong, or not fast enough, not cheap enough, not "gee whiz!" enough, not cool-looking enough, etc.



    Then we all kinda settle down and lick our wounds for 3-9 days (some members here seem to require medication and a short vacation on an island somewhere), then it starts up again:



    The "just WAIT until MWSF/MWNY!!!" (whichever one is coming next).



    Then we spend the next 5-6 months making COMPLETELY unrealistic, history-ignoring predictions based on nothing remotely resembling common sense, reality, past behavior/practices of Apple, etc.



    Then the show rolls around and - of course - Steve unveils NOTHING like what is talked about (here or elsewhere) and the cycle starts all over again.



    We - as Mac users - are afflicted with a terminal case of "ohyeahwaittilnexttime-itis", aren't we?







    It's ALWAYS "next year", "next quarter", "next rev", "next Macworld", "next update", etc.



    MY prediction (the only one that will bear fruit, come MWSF 2003):



    By Christmas-time, 28-47% of the people here will be basking confidently in their claims of "inside info" and bolding throwing around claims of "2GHz G5s are on the way..." and "dual-processor PowerBooks with SuperDrive II and onboard fish-finder...".







    Another 16-31% of chuckleheads who'll believe ANYTHING they read in print or on a computer screen will buy into the bullshit spouted by the aforementioned 28-47% crowd.



    And approximately 412 threads will be started in Future Hardware, consisting mainly of one group of know-nothings arguing viciously with a second group of know-nothings (albeit with better haircuts and table manners) over:



    a) products that don't exist yet, and...



    b) features/specs of said products



    Of course, MWSF will roll around. We'll slap ourselves out of our holiday-induced torpor (we'll all be a few pounds chunkier because the food is so damn good during November/December) and gather to watch the keynote. In breathless anticipation, with one hand on the Visa card, the other on the telephone (with the Apple Store set on the speed-dial).



    Steve will saunter out, dressed in his usual striking ensemble of jeans and a black shirt, proceed to bore everyone to tears with talk of the "digital hub" (we get it, Steve...give it a rest) and "innovating our way through this downturn...".



    <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />



    The keynote will come and go. Some really cool, nice things will be unveiled. One or two could even rightfully be called "staggering" or "revolutionary".



    But it ain't NOTHING close to the pie-in-the-sky nonsense predicted/called-for here.



    And the pissing and moaning will once again commence.



    Threats of defection (don't let the door hit you on the way out...), newer, more clever variations on the old "Apple sucks ass!" chestnut, etc. will all be posted here.



    Then, within a week, all will be forgiven and forgotten. Because?



    Why, Macworld New York 2003 is JUST AROUND THE CORNER!!!







    And you know what that means! 3GHz G5s, G4+ ultra-widescreen iBooks, OS XII, Newton II, iPhone, iWalk, 100GB iPods, QuickTime 9, iMovie 5, iTunes 6, iCal 1.5 (ha!), Plutonium PowerBooks, the return of colored iMacs, 22" widescreen Special Edition eMacs and a 6-button retina-controlled Pro Mouse II (in graphite, strawberry and Blue Dalmation, no less!).







    It'll be a GLORIOUS summer!



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  • Reply 38 of 165
    leonisleonis Posts: 3,427member
    With 4 MWs (MWNY 01, MWSF 02, MWT 02, MWNY 02) come together to join into a Great MacWorld Disappointment Chain I have already given up hope on any future expos or shows.



    I don't even think I will watch the live stream of MWSF 03.
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  • Reply 39 of 165
    jbljbl Posts: 555member
    Macworld is not always disappointing:

    MWB 1997 Alliance with Microsoft

    MWSF 1998 Return to profitability

    MWNY 1999 iBook

    MWSF 2001 SuperDrive 733 MHz G4s, PB G4



    It is more that we have had a series of really bad ones. The question now is whether this (rather short) series of bad Macworlds is the new trend, or if, after a few bad ones one might expect a good one to return us to the longer term trend.
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  • Reply 40 of 165
    [quote]Originally posted by pscates:

    <strong>But if everyone took this approach ("I'm gonna wait another 5 months because...") Apple would NEVER sell anything, and be even smaller and more niche-y than they are!



    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    I bought a IIvx ...



    ...you were saying?
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