(i will leave out minor ones such as tdma, which you find in eastern europe and some smaller markets in south america)
gsm: this is prevalent in eur and in most countries. in eur this is the standard. period.
cdma: this is found in korea (SK Telecom), and japan (au); and in the usa with verizon and sprint.
cdma carriers are also found in china, thailand; malaysia; mexico; brazil; and several other markets. however, gsm is still numerically larger than cdma at present.
however, a revoultion in happening in this field: 3G. 3G is faster and the costs of upgrading to 3G are cheaper for cdma. this is giving new carriers in established gsm markets the chance to begin to pay off substantial investment in equipment and relay facilities sooner if they chose to go 3G the cdma route. you will find more and more markets converting to cdma.
pls do not confuse w-cdma with cdma. w-cdma is the 3G generation of gsm.it is not compatible with any generation of cdma.
futhermore for the cognoscenti in the group: for those who know docomo: docomo is not compatable with either of the above two standards (as of today. docomo's 3G version will be w-cdma however, so within 5 years or so, docomo and the future 3G systems of gsm will be compatable.) but i digress.
now, back to my point a few posts ago:
apple's two major markets are usa and japan. it would be a bad move if they did not include japan in this iPhone. in order to do that, they can only use cdma tech.
so, verizon and sprint customers are OK.
pls see a few links which will help those of you wanting more info on cdma and gsm.
<strong>AT MWNY Jobs showed the upcoming Sony/Erickson GRPS (GPRS?) phone which would be able to sync with Jaguar. Why would he show this if Apple was coming out with its' own version. Also, there are zillions of cell phone companies and Apple would certainly have to tie up with one of them. Sprint would be it as the phone he showed is for Sprint only. Alas, the system is only in a test phase and doesn't cover the whole U.S. as yet. We'll see.</strong><hr></blockquote>
GPRS (General Packet Radio Service)
Before iPod was released Jobs showed off iTunes synching with a Rio MP3 player...
Plus it makes sense to show off that Apple software/hardware works with off the shelf consumer stuff. Otherwsie some non-savvy people can easily satrt thing that you HAVE to get Apple branded hardware/accessories for it to work. Thatt would suck.
[quote]Of the three scenarios on offer: Apple starts from scratch licensing and integrating the components; Apple co-operates with SonyEricsson and other vendors; Apple tweaks and refits an existing model, such as the P800, the second looks the most likely. Promoting compatibility with the growing number of Symbian smartphones would mean that Apple would make partners, not competitors, out of Nokia and Motorola - and that would surely be biting off more than it would want to chew.<hr></blockquote>
make a WHOLE lot of sense, doesn't it???</strong><hr></blockquote>
Rok,
I've been beating that drum ever since the GIGAWIRE TM hit radar. Everyone was so quick to put it into the 'name for the next firewire' box... Yet many never bothered to read it!
I kept sayin' ... "THE WAY IT READS THAT AIN'T NO FIREWIRE-2"... Totally fell on deaf ears (with many).
<strong>Okay, fine. But what is it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Really good question...
Calling 3G (errr 2.5G) gigawire just don't fit (calling 70Kb/s 'gigawire' would be a joke)... Doesn't really fit with bluetooth either (1Mb/s). 802.11g / 802.11a (54Mb/s) still doesn't fit.
Well having used all the different networks avaliable and tonnes of different phones I'd tend to think that apple isn't going to produce a phone for a variety of reasons. Both already mentioned
1: Lack of standards which ship do you jump on? GSM? TDMA? W-CDMA? CDMA? something new ?
2: Technology standards changing too rapidly... = high cost to the end user.
Here in Japan the phones are amazing and far ahead of what we have back home (Canada) but they do have their limitations. I would place my money on apple teaming up with different cell phone manufacturers and perhaps providers and integrating more applications like iSync and iCal into the phones.
As many of you know cell phone providers that support Mac connections are few and far between, hopefully this will change quickly. If apps like iCal and iSync are any indication I'd guess that Apple is aiming more towards being a "Partner" in cell phone development as opposed to a manufacturer.
If you look at Erickson, Nokia and the like as well as all the service providers it could prove fool hardy for Apple to enter the cell phone market at this time... Have you looked at any of these companies financial woes lately?
The only part about what they say that bothers me is...the Grayscale part. Plus..while it is a pipe dream: If they don't have pic xfers on it, specially without a color screen...I for one won't buy it.
I don't plan on buying another cellphone until I can do pic xfers to other cellphones, along with auto-syncing.
Video streaming can't hurt, but I can just imagine how much it would cost..although with .mp4, 3g should have enough bandwith to support it.
NYP's article holds at least one major logical flaw: it is intermingling three different OS'es: OSX, Pixo's OS (in iPod), and PalmOS.
The features in 10.2 which are mentioned as indicators that OSX is prepared for a cell phone, may or may not be suitable for such a device - but they are part of OSX.
How on earth would you make OSX run on a cell phone? (or any PDA, for that matter - in spite of the "movies" of a rebuilt Palm booting up with a nice X on its screen) There's neither the hardware nor the battery life necessary to make that happen. And it would be like killing sparrows with steamrollers!
Could the services mentioned be transferred to a suitable 3G cell phone OS? Possibly - but why then introduce something like InkWell in OSX in the first place?
To my mind, Jobs is doing the smart thing: letting the dedicated cell phone companies (well, plus Motorola...) do the risky stuff, and guiding the future of that industry by taking active part in establishing public standards (and building them into Macs before any other computers have them, to push their acceptance a la USB).
It's all about interfaces! Apple builds in all the interfaces and protocols necessary to let the two next cell phone generations feel more at home with a Mac than anywhere else; when they are there, the cell phone companies adopt them because they are smart! Apple breaks the chicken-n-egg deadlock that way.
Apple is about interfaces - about the bite rather than the fruit.
If one could use ink to input names and addresses directly on the phone (not necessarily on the mac itself), it would be a major selling point and a total "wow." Little touches like that really help sell small devices.
Hope springs eternal,
Mandricard
AppleOutsider
I am curious, though about introduction dates: they have ben ranging from September through next July...
the question is..... would it be possible to have a Pixio (iPod-ish interface) made front end with all the symbian goodness in the back?
Why on earth would you want such a horrible interface (iPod) on a multimedia phone? Has anyone used the Nokia Communicator? Or SonyEriccsson T68i? Full color, brilliant icons and screens, reaaaallly nice interface, etc.
Im a Nokia die hard but constantly trying out new GSMs to see if they are good or getting better. Worst of all is Motorola. I still cant figure out how the sell phones. They are the worst... Getting back on track, I picked up the T68i and just experimented. In 2 minutes I knew everything and had customized the phone, created pictures, sent pictures as MMS and Email, added sound to MMS, accessed my SIM card address book, etc etc.
There is NO WAY you could have that kind of experience with an iPod-like interface. NO WAY.
So, either we are gettingg some lovin' (a la Nokia 7250 (he one with camera... i think thats the number) or T68i, or something like Nokia Communicator) or we are getting a simple iPod-ish like mobile phone without the bells and whistles.
<strong>the question is..... would it be possible to have a Pixio (iPod-ish interface) made front end with all the symbian goodness in the back?
Why on earth would you want such a horrible interface (iPod) on a multimedia phone? Has anyone used the Nokia Communicator? Or SonyEriccsson T68i? Full color, brilliant icons and screens, reaaaallly nice interface, etc.
(...)
There is NO WAY you could have that kind of experience with an iPod-like interface. NO WAY.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree here. Apple will need color now that so many other vendors already have color phones.
As for the OS, I just checked out the Pixo site and...
Am I missing something or is the whole Pixo OS (don't remember how they branded it) *gone* from their product site ?? They just talk about their mobile download server platformnow....hmmm (which is Java, so I can answer my question : Yes, Pixo does J2ME.
But couldn't a future version of Pixo include color and other nice things ?
Since most things are gone from their website, I can't check the details. Apple could have more control over such a small company than Symbian and still be compatible. The interesting stuff is not tied to Symbian (SyncML/iSync just happens to be a part of WAP2.0 standard and is OS independent...), so there is no need to use Symbian.
<strong>the question is..... would it be possible to have a Pixio (iPod-ish interface) made front end with all the symbian goodness in the back?
Why on earth would you want such a horrible interface (iPod) on a multimedia phone?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I guess I'll be the one to step up and defend the iPod UI. For what it's for, accessing thousands of categorized files, volume control, and scrubbing, the iPod "wheel" is quite decent. ...As opposed to what? A D-pad <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Comments
(i will leave out minor ones such as tdma, which you find in eastern europe and some smaller markets in south america)
gsm: this is prevalent in eur and in most countries. in eur this is the standard. period.
cdma: this is found in korea (SK Telecom), and japan (au); and in the usa with verizon and sprint.
cdma carriers are also found in china, thailand; malaysia; mexico; brazil; and several other markets. however, gsm is still numerically larger than cdma at present.
however, a revoultion in happening in this field: 3G. 3G is faster and the costs of upgrading to 3G are cheaper for cdma. this is giving new carriers in established gsm markets the chance to begin to pay off substantial investment in equipment and relay facilities sooner if they chose to go 3G the cdma route. you will find more and more markets converting to cdma.
pls do not confuse w-cdma with cdma. w-cdma is the 3G generation of gsm.it is not compatible with any generation of cdma.
futhermore for the cognoscenti in the group: for those who know docomo: docomo is not compatable with either of the above two standards (as of today. docomo's 3G version will be w-cdma however, so within 5 years or so, docomo and the future 3G systems of gsm will be compatable.) but i digress.
now, back to my point a few posts ago:
apple's two major markets are usa and japan. it would be a bad move if they did not include japan in this iPhone. in order to do that, they can only use cdma tech.
so, verizon and sprint customers are OK.
pls see a few links which will help those of you wanting more info on cdma and gsm.
<a href="http://www.cdg.org/hot_news/index.asp"; target="_blank">www.cdg.org/hot_news/index.asp</a>
<a href="http://www.gsmworld.com/news/headlines.shtml"; target="_blank">www.gsmworld.com/news/headlines.shtml</a>
you will not see an iPhone announcement in paris (a gsm market).
thnx
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: niji ]</p>
Report to Duty
[quote]Originally posted by MacsRGood4U:
<strong>AT MWNY Jobs showed the upcoming Sony/Erickson GRPS (GPRS?) phone which would be able to sync with Jaguar. Why would he show this if Apple was coming out with its' own version. Also, there are zillions of cell phone companies and Apple would certainly have to tie up with one of them. Sprint would be it as the phone he showed is for Sprint only. Alas, the system is only in a test phase and doesn't cover the whole U.S. as yet. We'll see.</strong><hr></blockquote>
GPRS (General Packet Radio Service)
Before iPod was released Jobs showed off iTunes synching with a Rio MP3 player...
Plus it makes sense to show off that Apple software/hardware works with off the shelf consumer stuff. Otherwsie some non-savvy people can easily satrt thing that you HAVE to get Apple branded hardware/accessories for it to work. Thatt would suck.
<strong>Before iPod was released Jobs showed off iTunes synching with a Rio MP3 player...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Before the xServe Apple showed off QTSS (ala MPEG4) running on a Sun rackmout.
Dave
and it sounds better by the day!
Their conclusion:
[quote]Of the three scenarios on offer: Apple starts from scratch licensing and integrating the components; Apple co-operates with SonyEricsson and other vendors; Apple tweaks and refits an existing model, such as the P800, the second looks the most likely. Promoting compatibility with the growing number of Symbian smartphones would mean that Apple would make partners, not competitors, out of Nokia and Motorola - and that would surely be biting off more than it would want to chew.<hr></blockquote>
Screed ...(aka TINAPDA - There Is No Apple PDA)
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: sCreeD ]</p>
Read this snippet from the U.S. Patent office for the trademark definition of our old friend <a href="http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=pna79u.3.1"; target="_blank">GIGAWIRE</a>.
makes a WHOLE lot of sense now, doesn't it???
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: rok ]</p>
Okay, fine. But what is it? Really good RJ-11 cable??
Screed
<strong>ahem...
Read this snippet from the U.S. Patent office for the trademark definition of our old friend <a href="http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=pna79u.3.1"; target="_blank">GIGAWIRE</a>.
make a WHOLE lot of sense, doesn't it???</strong><hr></blockquote>
Rok,
I've been beating that drum ever since the GIGAWIRE TM hit radar. Everyone was so quick to put it into the 'name for the next firewire' box... Yet many never bothered to read it!
I kept sayin' ... "THE WAY IT READS THAT AIN'T NO FIREWIRE-2"... Totally fell on deaf ears (with many).
Dave
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: DaveGee ]</p>
<strong>Okay, fine. But what is it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Really good question...
Calling 3G (errr 2.5G) gigawire just don't fit (calling 70Kb/s 'gigawire' would be a joke)... Doesn't really fit with bluetooth either (1Mb/s). 802.11g / 802.11a (54Mb/s) still doesn't fit.
I dunno...
Dave
1: Lack of standards which ship do you jump on? GSM? TDMA? W-CDMA? CDMA? something new ?
2: Technology standards changing too rapidly... = high cost to the end user.
Here in Japan the phones are amazing and far ahead of what we have back home (Canada) but they do have their limitations. I would place my money on apple teaming up with different cell phone manufacturers and perhaps providers and integrating more applications like iSync and iCal into the phones.
As many of you know cell phone providers that support Mac connections are few and far between, hopefully this will change quickly. If apps like iCal and iSync are any indication I'd guess that Apple is aiming more towards being a "Partner" in cell phone development as opposed to a manufacturer.
If you look at Erickson, Nokia and the like as well as all the service providers it could prove fool hardy for Apple to enter the cell phone market at this time... Have you looked at any of these companies financial woes lately?
<a href="http://www.irumors.net"; target="_blank">irumors.net</a>
The only part about what they say that bothers me is...the Grayscale part. Plus..while it is a pipe dream: If they don't have pic xfers on it, specially without a color screen...I for one won't buy it.
I don't plan on buying another cellphone until I can do pic xfers to other cellphones, along with auto-syncing.
Video streaming can't hurt, but I can just imagine how much it would cost..although with .mp4, 3g should have enough bandwith to support it.
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: eddively ]</p>
The features in 10.2 which are mentioned as indicators that OSX is prepared for a cell phone, may or may not be suitable for such a device - but they are part of OSX.
How on earth would you make OSX run on a cell phone? (or any PDA, for that matter - in spite of the "movies" of a rebuilt Palm booting up with a nice X on its screen) There's neither the hardware nor the battery life necessary to make that happen. And it would be like killing sparrows with steamrollers!
Could the services mentioned be transferred to a suitable 3G cell phone OS? Possibly - but why then introduce something like InkWell in OSX in the first place?
To my mind, Jobs is doing the smart thing: letting the dedicated cell phone companies (well, plus Motorola...) do the risky stuff, and guiding the future of that industry by taking active part in establishing public standards (and building them into Macs before any other computers have them, to push their acceptance a la USB).
It's all about interfaces! Apple builds in all the interfaces and protocols necessary to let the two next cell phone generations feel more at home with a Mac than anywhere else; when they are there, the cell phone companies adopt them because they are smart! Apple breaks the chicken-n-egg deadlock that way.
Apple is about interfaces - about the bite rather than the fruit.
engpjp
do you even need a cell phone? looks like you are just looking for a cool device. (not that its a bad thing
If one could use ink to input names and addresses directly on the phone (not necessarily on the mac itself), it would be a major selling point and a total "wow." Little touches like that really help sell small devices.
Hope springs eternal,
Mandricard
AppleOutsider
I am curious, though about introduction dates: they have ben ranging from September through next July...
Why on earth would you want such a horrible interface (iPod) on a multimedia phone? Has anyone used the Nokia Communicator? Or SonyEriccsson T68i? Full color, brilliant icons and screens, reaaaallly nice interface, etc.
Im a Nokia die hard but constantly trying out new GSMs to see if they are good or getting better. Worst of all is Motorola. I still cant figure out how the sell phones. They are the worst... Getting back on track, I picked up the T68i and just experimented. In 2 minutes I knew everything and had customized the phone, created pictures, sent pictures as MMS and Email, added sound to MMS, accessed my SIM card address book, etc etc.
There is NO WAY you could have that kind of experience with an iPod-like interface. NO WAY.
So, either we are gettingg some lovin' (a la Nokia 7250 (he one with camera... i think thats the number) or T68i, or something like Nokia Communicator) or we are getting a simple iPod-ish like mobile phone without the bells and whistles.
<strong>the question is..... would it be possible to have a Pixio (iPod-ish interface) made front end with all the symbian goodness in the back?
Why on earth would you want such a horrible interface (iPod) on a multimedia phone? Has anyone used the Nokia Communicator? Or SonyEriccsson T68i? Full color, brilliant icons and screens, reaaaallly nice interface, etc.
(...)
There is NO WAY you could have that kind of experience with an iPod-like interface. NO WAY.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree here. Apple will need color now that so many other vendors already have color phones.
As for the OS, I just checked out the Pixo site and...
<a href="http://www.pixo.com/products"; target="_blank">http://www.pixo.com/products/products000.html</a>;
Am I missing something or is the whole Pixo OS (don't remember how they branded it) *gone* from their product site ?? They just talk about their mobile download server platformnow....hmmm (which is Java, so I can answer my question
But couldn't a future version of Pixo include color and other nice things ?
Since most things are gone from their website, I can't check the details. Apple could have more control over such a small company than Symbian and still be compatible. The interesting stuff is not tied to Symbian (SyncML/iSync just happens to be a part of WAP2.0 standard and is OS independent...), so there is no need to use Symbian.
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: jabba ]</p>
<strong>the question is..... would it be possible to have a Pixio (iPod-ish interface) made front end with all the symbian goodness in the back?
Why on earth would you want such a horrible interface (iPod) on a multimedia phone?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I guess I'll be the one to step up and defend the iPod UI. For what it's for, accessing thousands of categorized files, volume control, and scrubbing, the iPod "wheel" is quite decent. ...As opposed to what? A D-pad <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Let's pretend there's another menu available:
Playlists
Browse
Call > Work > Boss (select) and it dials!
Extras
Settings
About
Screed
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: sCreeD ]</p>