Mac users: ever seriosly think about going windows?
Reply 21 of 49
March 30, 2004 8:20PM
the closest i got was back in 1997. the iomega "click of death" had wiped out nearly all of our zip drives in our department, driver updates were spotty for our printers, and almost all software being released was getting mediocre-to-bad ratings (anyone who thinks the apple software market is dying need only look at a back issue of macworld or macaddict circa 1997 to know that there was a whole lotta bad back then).
meanwhile, windows nt was kicking up a storm, and for all its problems, windows 95 and the cheap prices on the computers that ran it were calling to me.
finally, i decided buying a clone was the compromise, and got a motorola starmax 3000/180. decent computer that finally flaked out completely as of OS 9, but served us well until then.
but when steve cam back to the company and they released the first imac, i knew i had chosen the right path to stay at least on the apple-ish side of things.
Reply 22 of 49
March 30, 2004 8:27PM
With my Wallstreet 266 (w/8.6) crapping out, I seriously looked at the Windows side of things. But then my place of business switched from OS/2 to XP and that was the end of that.
XP, while certainly usable, basically ground to a halt when the worms/virii/etc were released. The "stupid user" interface also drove me nuts. Wizards for everything and none of it really useful.
Anyway, bought a DP 1.8 G5 instead. OS X is different to be sure, but I'm starting to like it.
Reply 23 of 49
March 30, 2004 8:27PM
1) Games. Yes. I'm serious. If Doom 3 is calling my name. I HOPE it really ships for OS X at the same time...
2) Virus problems
Reply 24 of 49
the pie man
March 30, 2004 9:21PM
Originally posted by Cake
I use my PC almost as much as I use my PowerBook.
I just built a new Athlon 64 gaming rig and it rocks.
XP is easily the best OS MS has put out so far.
I definitely prefer my Macs and OS X, but PCs and Macs have much more similarities these days than differences.
Both platforms are very usable and I've found that build PCs myself has helped my overall computer knowledge tremendously.
I'm with you Cake. I built a Athlon XP (2500+ mobile) rig recently, overclocked the bejeebus out of it. It is a box I can write off as a business expense, play the newest games on, it screams, and cost 1/6 what my G5 did.
Using Win XP has reinforced my love os OS X, and I doubt I would ever consider switching over full time, but a PC has a place in my life from now on. Once you are bitten with the DIY overclock bug, you can't go back!
Reply 25 of 49
March 30, 2004 9:23PM
Originally posted by jade
Well since people seem to be pretty edgy about the no-hardware Mac year. I was wondering...have any of you long time Apple users, seriously considered switching? (Not becasue of slow hardware updates for you guys in the g4 500mhz dry spell) If you didn't, but you thought about it, why did you stay Apple? If you did, why did you go windows? And who is on the fence, and why do you want to?
(I understand this will have slightly skewed results but you know)
just switched and will NEVER go back
Reply 26 of 49
March 30, 2004 9:52PM
I go windows everyday for 8 + hours. No problems here. I do like my powerbook though.
Reply 27 of 49
March 30, 2004 10:17PM
WinXP really isn't that bad. Usually most of my data, like my iTunes and iPhoto libraries, Safari bookmarks, contacts, calendars, etc., are stored on my Mac, so I use it more often than my PC. But I recently pulled a murbot when I heard G5 PowerBooks might be in the works, and I must say, while Mac OS X is far more refined and requires far less long-term maintainence, you people really sell Windows XP short for day-to-day use.
I was part of Microsoft's Preview Program for "Whistler" in February 2001, long before XP got its name and was released, so I've watched this OS grow over time, just as I've watched OS X evolve from crawling on its belly in the Public Beta days to the athelete it is today.
Sure, there's some stuff you miss. AIM has nothing on iChat. I might've misspelled something in this post, because there's no automatic spell-checker. You don't get pop-up blocking without downloading Firefox. The locations of preferences and options can be a little weird and inconsistent at times, as can be the system tray's ability to present information about various apps running like the Dock. Overall, though, these are just small blemishes, just like OS X has its fair share of bad UI examples and poor carbon ports and annoying bouncing dock icons that we're "not supposed to notice," because the rest of the OS is so perfect.
You can't try to apply Mac workflow to Windows. I think they both have different ways of going about doing stuff.
XP is more about contextual tasks, giving you the quickest way from getting from point A to point B with a textual action; instead of trying to relate files to objects, guess drag-and-drop behavior, etc., abstract concepts that require a little experimentation, Windows is very up-front (some would say "in your face") about exactly what its various functions do. Some people find confidence in textual direction over arbitrary imagery, especially people who don't want to learn to use a computer so much as follow the instructions for getting their work done. Concepts like drag and drop are seemingly innate abilities, but selecting a whole bunch of files, choosing "Move the selected items" from the sidebar, and navigating through the hierarchy for their destination may seem more organic. Some people would rather be led by the hand when going through the process of burning a data CD or trying to find something in the Control Panel.
Mac OS X, on the other hand, is less linear, non-obstructive (even Sheets drives this concept home). It makes assumptions about your computer experience, letting you blaze through oft-used commands in a series of mouse flicks and button flicks, to the point that you're not even thinking about the actions you're doing. In short, it's meant for us.
This is well and good, but who's going to tell a first-time computer user that applications are self-contained entities, where they're located, how dragging them to the dock makes shortcuts appear, etc.? They don't ship a copy of Brad Smith in every box. When someone boots up OS X for the very first time, they get lots of blue and some bar down there with a happy face, a compass, a stamp, a CD with a music note on it, a brown book adorned with an "@" sign, this yellow man they've seen in commercials and swear is a trademark of some company but can't quite place, and an Apple lightswitch. Intuitive? I think not.
To some people, this is overwhelming. More overwhelming than having a bright green button that tells them where to start, without having having their system tray talk to them with little speech bubbles to announce that there's a tour for this OS that will teach them everything from what a file is to how to remove a program. These are people who can't get their VCR's to stop flashing 12:00.
This kind of turned out longer than it was meant to be. I guess the subject concerns Mac users -- experienced computer users -- switching back to the braindead, by-the-hand Windows, but I was just trying to make Thurrott-like sense of Microsoft's UI.
Why do I keep a PC around? Well, games, for one. Computer gaming is making a huge comeback (as always seems to happen mid-console cycle), and it's a shame the G5 won't be a part of it. And since I'm taking game development as my major, I need apps like Gmax, XSI, Visual Studio, and frameworks like DirectX. Now that there's iTunes for Windows, it really isn't all that bad. With SP2 on the way, my virus fears are somewhat alleviated (I suggest you check it out; the dynamic port opening/closing when a program requests it on the Firewall is something Apple should think about).
In short, I can wait for a G5 PowerBook.
Reply 28 of 49
March 30, 2004 10:33PM
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
I did consider it, I played a lot of games on my brothers PC last summer, and spent a lot of time using it in general. Once I started getting used to it, I thought about switching, but ultimately when I returned to my iMac it was just...way better.
Last summer? You mean your summer just gone? That is, well after Jag's release? HEATHEN!!!! I say we burn him at the stake.
I thought about switching in the mid - late 90's partly because the Mac was (is?) a dying platform in Oz and partly because I'd always used Macs and I started to freak out about not being able to use Windows (I just don't get it!) in a Windows world. Also, I was little concerned about how the company would fair after Steve's return. He might be clever but let's face it he can be a little, well, difficult.
I didn't primarily because it meant learning to use a new OS.
Je ne regrette rien.
Reply 29 of 49
March 30, 2004 10:41PM
There were only a couple of times when I considered jumping ship: the well-shit-the-clones-are-dead-and-where-is-my-G3 era, and those months we spent stuck at 500 MHz waiting for OS X for arrive. Bleak times to be a Mac user.
I made it through that, so I figure I'm good for the next decade.
Reply 30 of 49
March 30, 2004 11:24PM
never really seriously thought about going to windows, no
Reply 31 of 49
March 31, 2004 12:19AM
The more I work on a Mac, the less possible it feels to use Windows.
Reply 32 of 49
March 31, 2004 12:56AM
Originally posted by Cake
Both platforms are very usable and I've found that build PCs myself has helped my overall computer knowledge tremendously.
the big diffrence for me is that windows feels static compared to OS X with exposé. when i get on a PC, i start tapping all kinds of expose things and other keyboard shortcuts, and i just about freeze windows b/c of it. windows feels extremely outdated. but thats just MO
Reply 33 of 49
March 31, 2004 1:05AM
I've been using Macs since before they even were Macs. The first computer I ever owned was the Apple II. I've used every system Apple has ever produced (OS X being by far the best). I grew up with Macs, I have used them all my life. They have served me extremely well. I know windows, I can use windows, but I don't like it. I'm sticking with Macs no matter what. I've never owned a Wintell box and never will. Macs just work, and they work extremely well for me.
Reply 34 of 49
March 31, 2004 1:57AM
What the last post said. Same thing for me. Started with an Apple II, loved those tiny computer in a box years, the SE, etc(although never actually owned one). Had a LCIII for high school and started using internet with a screaming 14.4 modem. Then had to have that original iMac when it came out(for part of college, that LCIII lasted!). Had that for years. Now the 17" pb. Never considered windows. Parents have used them, bought one a few years ago. My experience and my parents, windows computer are easier to freeze, easier to crash, much more complex user interface, i.e. so many what seem like useless settings. I think of the system preferences panel in mac vs. anything windows, just so much more cumbersome it seems.
Reply 35 of 49
March 31, 2004 5:03AM
I'm still on Windows (2000 Pro). Since I like Mac OS X better, last time I needed to buy a computer (for my mom) I got an iBook.
I'm waiting for laptop revisions to get one as my "client" computer, the one I sit at daily. This would also be my first laptop. Then I'll put the Windows box to server use, running Linux or a BSD. I'm experimenting with Red Hat now; I've used *nixes a lot but have no administration skill.
A major reason why Windows doesn't bother me much is that I do all my real work in Solaris, FreeBSD, IRIX etc. at school. I ssh there from the Windows box.
So this post doesn't go totally off-topic, I do want a Windows box as well as an Apple. There are applications that only exist on one platform, most notably games. Visual Studio is good as well (the debugger!), even though I haven't used it for some time.
Reply 36 of 49
March 31, 2004 5:05AM
I've thought about it lately. I sure do like that IBM Thinkpad, but I priced out one with the same features as a 15" G4 Powerbook, and so far those Thinkpads are waaaaay overpriced. And people say Macs are expensive... Good grief, Charlie Brown...
But I probably won't. I've bought so much software for the Mac and my iPod is for the Mac...
Reply 37 of 49
March 31, 2004 5:57AM
I started off with an Apple II back in '86 and never really considered DOS and later Windows an option. However, today, I spend about 80% of my time in front of XP...
It is kind of a platform creep that developed over the last 3 years. I know, it might provoke some emotions here, but the Mac A I Knew It [tm] has died and what has come is nice but nothing more.
I was totally in love with system 7.x (7.6.1, the pinnacle of evolution), liked 8.1 to 8.6, still liked 9.x although I never saw what was so great about it, and well, now I am on OS X.
Certainly, OS X is more powerful, more solid, has a more refined UI, features a console, but well... It has nothing to do with a Mac. It is just another nice looking out-of-the-box OS featuring a completely brain-dead file system layout ("Desktop" is in /home/snow/ instead at the top of the FS hierarchy? how intuitive...). Multi-user-support is as superfluous as it gets on my Powerbook and the file sharing part is getting worse as OS X matures (I have a hard time even mounting an AppleShare server in Panther). Ugly, bloated fonts I cannot adjust (my eyesight is rather good and the small font size in 7/8/9 was just perfect). General mushy look due to too much transparency....
Then, the Mac software market is dying. As a developer, I finally had to look into developing on windows and got myself the cheapest Centrino I could. Of course it totally blew my aging Ti/400 out of the water, speedwise. And getting accustomed to the quirks of XP was just a little bit harder than getting used to the OS X way. It really is not that different if you got some mental flexibility.
(to be completely honest, the quality of the centrino is horrible, I needed to flash the BIOS because the '<'-key was dead..)
Today, I use the Ti only for doing email and some Unixy stuff. Thankfully, Apple has ported iTunes to XP, so I don't need OS X for it. I have thrown out the old G3/233 that worked as my file server and DSL-router and replaced it with a ITX shoebox running Linux (which is, by the way a really horrible nightmare of an OS, much much worse than XP) and a router box. The Centrino packs such a massive punch compared to the Powerbook that I find myself using it more and more....
Maybe a Powerbook G5 will reverse this, but I am not really sure. I will try, but it feels like I am slowly leaving the Mac - there is no longer a killer application.
Where, oh where have you gone, my beloved Mac? *sniffels*
Reply 38 of 49
March 31, 2004 6:26AM
I like both. I could live without the Mac, but I could not live without the PC.
Only trouble with using both computers is getting used to the shortcuts.
Reply 39 of 49
March 31, 2004 6:37AM
I've never seriously considered using Windows as my primary OS by choice. I've tinkered with enough Linux to know well enough how to install and use one of the current distros. Some of them are actually looking relatively nice, at least, compared to the UI and configuration hell of the Linux we knew a few years ago. Any software only available for Windows could be run happily under WINE.
If I ever have to give up my Mac, I'm only installing Windows if I'm bound to by my job.
Fortunately, the company I work for now is owned by Bob Young, co-founder of Red Hat.
Reply 40 of 49
March 31, 2004 7:45AM
I feel much like Smircle with regard to slowly drifting away from the Mac a bit.
The reasons for this are multiple, but first a bit of history. My first Mac was a Classic II bought at university on an educational discount plus employee discount. It was a fantastic machine that I owned forever and used pretty much everywhere since it was so light and transportable. It is still my first Mac love.
That said, Apple has been going in decidedly the wrong direction for quite a while. Steve Jobs is like a batter who only hits homeruns. In between those dazzling blasts, there are a lot of strikeouts.
First is the lack of a true affordable consumer/prosumer tower. People have been complaining about this since well, before the cube easily. As if that weren't insulting enough the average retail price of the towers has been going up while the price of PC towers has fallen through the floor. I mean back when we had a choice between a 400,450 or 500 mhz G4, the low end tower was $1599 and that was in 1999 computer dollars. The lowest in tower is now $1799, universally derided as a bad deal and there appears no relief in sight.
The other thing is that I often ride a bit behind the curve and buy used Macs since I don't actually make money with these toys, I just play. Well Apple sold so few towers for so long now, that there isn't even much of a used market for Macs, and I live in the LA area for goodness sake.
Lastly is the fact that I now need multiple computer since I have a family, especially two very curious boys. They LOVE computers but sometimes they are very rough on them. They have PC's since if they destroy the keyboard by dumping apple juice on it while no one is looking, I can go grab another one for $8, instead of it being $40-50.
XP has gotten to a tolerable state for use. Also I can load and use several open source alternatives to avoid Microsoft even on their own platform. I run OpenOffice, and Mozilla for example. I also run closed apps like AIM, iTunes, and so forth.
Now some serious complaints. iTunes on my PC will recognize cd-r drives that my Mac won't recognize without applying patchburn since Apple doesn't endorse those drives for god knows what reason. That is annoying the whole control thing constantly kicking back up into your face. I also mentioned that whole control issue with ADC in the current hardware. It is annoying when I can go buy a DVI converter for like $10 if I needed it, but the Apple ADC converter is $100 on a 17 inch monitor that is already twice the price of the competition.
I've had a BW tower have a motherboard fail. It is now effectively dead since the replacement parts are more costly than the computer is worth. I have a Powerbook with a screen starting to go bad. The replacement screen costs are just insane! Ebay hits still bring back obnoxious dollar amounts. Replacing it would of course mean spending a minimum of $2000 to get another 15 inch Powerbook.
On the PC the hardware is not nearly as bad as I have heard people make out. My son is using a computer based off an Abit BH6 motherboard that I built years ago. I kept adding processor upgrades for either free or like $20 over the years. It is now at 950 mhz/512 megs of RAM with a Geforce2GTS card ($35) and runs wireless internet via a PCI card. It is blazingly fast for anything he would do and is literally a spare parts machine.
My other son's computer was an experiment. I bought the lowest econobox parts you can buy. It is a KLE133 motherboard with built in everything. It has a Duron 1300. I slapped it into an ugly old PC case which I spray painted blue and decorated to improve on the paint chipped appearance. Now power supply was $20, I brought the whole thing in under $200. The cost went up another $50 to add a wireless 802.11b PCI card. The machine absolutely flies and is again, a perfect machine for his director type educational games. I was GIVEN a Voodoo 5500 which I found some hacked drivers for. This econobox can play Wolfenstein, Quake 3, and loads of other games at 60+ fps.
My two own computers are a newly purchased
with 120 gig HD, 1 gig RAM, Geforce2mx video and Sony 12x CD-R.
My PC is an AMD XP2400 with a Nvidia 128 meg 5700 graphics card, 512 megs DDR ram, 40 gig HD, DVD and some off-brand 52x-cdr purchased for like $30 on sale.
I go between the two all the time. Mac OS X is beautiful, the lagging issues, price, performance, locking you into certain hardware, etc. have not gone away or have even gotten worse overtime. How many years have we been complaining about not having two drive bays for example?
I guess I'm disgruntled for now.