People are not at all interested in an LCD AIO desktop for a high price and no expandability/upgradability.
It's been argued to death here and you don't have to look any further than sales figures (for both Apple and PC makers) to realize this is true.
You know, I'm worried that IBM's continued low G5 output might cause Apple to put out an AIO Mac because they wouldn't have enough chips to handle the demand of a headless Mac / PowerMac mini.
People are not at all interested in an LCD AIO desktop for a high price and no expandability/upgradability.
It's been argued to death here and you don't have to look any further than sales figures (for both Apple and PC makers) to realize this is true.
One could also say that there are not nearly AS MANY all-in-ones as there are headless machines, making sales numbers for non-AIO's look a billion times better than AIO sales.
People are not at all interested in an LCD AIO desktop for a high price and no expandability/upgradability.
It's been argued to death here and you don't have to look any further than sales figures (for both Apple and PC makers) to realize this is true.
Now that I couldn't agree more with in respects to the iLamp iMac, but Apple sometimes has a way to design something so beautiful people just must have one.
I like the 1st design big time, but expendability looks difficult at best.
If they get great specs out of it, and keep the cost down it would work.
But it is so gorgeous it would sell regardless.
I think it's going to be similar to the 1st image below, but not as visually pleasing which will be it's downfall. It will be more like the sony Vaio. (second image)
Not as visually pleasing, but still it is similar to what TS reported.
Personally - If I were buying an iMac specs wouldn't be my reason for buying. If I needed specs I would buy a PowerMac, or a PC, but users, and children are gamers in todays world, and that is important to them. I think a lot of iMac's are for kids. Gaming (and specs) are a fundamental part of the structure within the social society of todays youth.
I still think the georgous one would sell regaurdless.
It's not going to be pretty to see the critiques (biache ridden) threads in here after the new iMacs are released. It should be for a fun time.
Go Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go Phil
I am in the market for a new Mac. Can someone please enlighten me?
There is a lot of nVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra graphics card bashing going on.
I have NO plans to play Doom3. I do plan on using: email, Safari, iTunes, iMovie, iPhoto, iDVD, Photoshop Elements (I currently run these on an 800Mhz iMac 15 LCD). I plan on buying and learning FCP, Motion, and Maya PLE. I do plan on maxing out the ram.
A dual 1.8Ghz PM G5, ATI Radeon 9600 and 20 LCD may be twice the cost of the G5 iMac.
Is there a significant disadvantage to running FCP, Motion or Maya on the FX 5200 Ultra for non-professional use? If so what?
One could also say that there are not nearly AS MANY all-in-ones as there are headless machines, making sales numbers for non-AIO's look a billion times better than AIO sales.
That's because, in the PC world, product demand drives design. There aren't as many LCD AIO designs out there because they don't sell. Gateway's best seller is, shockingly, NOT the LCD AIO Profile series! But rather, their affordable, flexible tower.
It has been shown time and time again that when given a choice, people will overwhelmingly choose to buy a minitower and LCD bundle rather than an LCD AIO with no expandability. Obviously, there are some people here that are gung-ho on the LCD AIO design, but you guys are a minority.
It's not just me that wants a Mac minitower with a separate monitor, it's what consumers overwhelmingly want and choose to buy.
That's because, in the PC world, product demand drives design.
I disagree. PC design is driven by it being a comodity market. With few exceptions, everything is interchangable with PCs... That really doesn't even apply to Macs (No way, no how is Apple going to come out with an ATX motherboard...).
Quote:
There aren't as many LCD AIO designs out there because they don't sell. Gateway's best seller is, shockingly, NOT the LCD AIO Profile series! But rather, their affordable, flexible tower.
And yet, several years after introducing their AIO machine, Gateway still sells them. If nobody's buying them, Gateway didn't seem to get the memo...
Quote:
Obviously, there are some people here that are gung-ho on the LCD AIO design, but you guys are a minority.
In case you haven't noticed, so is Apple. If they manage to come out with an iMac that sells so well that it's responsible for quadrupling their market share, they'll still be a small minority. I honestly don't see how it matters at all.
Honestly, I don't see any reason for all this hostility towards AIO machines. They fill a niche, and Apple AIOs have filled it rather well for a long time. They're not going away anytime soon.
Having said that, I agree that Apple needs to come out with a cheaper headless machine (preferably with upgradable video). The fact that you've got to spend $2k just because you want some options for video and/or a monitor is silly. C'mon, Apple-- come out with a $1200 headless machine!
There are as many reasons for buying computers as there are people who buy them. I'd love to see Apple come out with a broader line of machines that appeals to a wider array of buyers.
Apple's marketing is terrible, no not their TV or print ads, their website is awful.
Take a look at the mini cooper website www.mini.com for an example of expert marketing. Apple needs to do something similar, to walk people through a purchase, and show them what upgrades do and what benefits they have for the customer.
Apple needs to do something about the fact that, for example, my dad can not go to the Apple online store and understand why he should upgrade to an 80 GB HD over a 40 GB one...I doubt he knows what a Gigabyte is.
Apple should be concerned about educating potential customers. I'm sure there are people out there that just dont know anything about computers, but decide to buy one, and get the cheapest one because they dont know ANYTHING about it. Apple needs to have a more informative buying experience.
Look, didn't Apple say they were oging to either produce an MP3 player or a cheap desktop?? They went with the iPod... A cheap headless mac therefore will probably never happen. An iMac with a 17" LCD, 2Ghz G5 with a Radeon 9600xt will do fine.
Where did they say such a thing? I've never heard of it.
I heard it. I believe in a SJ interview he said basically stated(paraphrasing) that the iPod is a better deal(ie more profitable) than the lowend computer market. Now I think this of course is going to change but today Apple is better suited to selling the iPods with better margins and lower support costs than lowend computers.
Once Apple beefs up their biz tools then lowend Macs become a more feasible venture into edu and small biz.
Quote:
Apple's marketing is terrible, no not their TV or print ads, their website is awful.
I have to disagree on the website. I find things much easier on Apple's site versus say Microsoft or Dell.
Apple's store are a step in the right direction. The website should generate the curiousity which should be satisfied by a trip to a Apple Retail or Macintosh retail store. Consumers need to be swayed away from merely comparing specs. That is PC mentality borne from having multiple vendors who sell the same OS same form factors and thus can only differentiate themselves by telling consumers they have 128MB cards versus the competitions 64MB. This leads to shady marketing tactics and consumer confusion.
Apple offers a compelling package that is tailored for the largest cross section of consumers. Most don't do extreme gaming, most don't do high end video/audio. Most do however prefer an easy computer(relatively) and fast enough to do what they want on a daily basis.
Spending more money on a computer fights obsolesence. It has always been that way. Microsoft has already stated the "ideal" specs of a Longhorn system and none of todays Tier 1 vendors are shipping anything close for $2000 or less.
I keep hearing that Apple has "stagnated" over the last 3-4 years and this couldn't be further from the truth. Apple's sales have stabilized and not declined sufficiently. They've migrated to a new HW platform(G5) and got their OS roadmap back on target. They've increased their employee base by %50 and reduced manufacturing liability by outsourcing more.
These are not the action of a company that is struggling or "beleaguered" but rather one that is ensuring their survival and looking to grow rather than looking for short term improvements. Apple will branch out in new areas(Consumer Electronics) and continue to push Macs for DCC work. The future is far rosier than what I'm hearing on these boards. The iMac G5 in its iniatial config doesn't have to be a barn burner. It merely has to get the new form factor out in public to see how consumers take to it as well as see how its thermal characterstics hold up in the real world. I cannot blame Apple for being conservative here.
I'll be inline for the second revision of the iMac G5 regardless of how sucktastic it will inevitably be described as by those who hate Apple hardware that isn't blowing their minds.
I heard it. I believe in a SJ interview he said basically stated(paraphrasing) that the iPod is a better deal(ie more profitable) than the lowend computer market. Now I think this of course is going to change but today Apple is better suited to selling the iPods with better margins and lower support costs than lowend computers.
Yeah, when you say it, I remember it vaguely. It makes sense nonetheless.
Anyway we'll never see a cheap headless mac, Apple is not Dell...
"Cheap" is < $2k? It's 2004, folks, not 1996. Not having a headless machine between $1k & $2k is a hole in Apples lineup big enough to drive a truck through...
[...]
Quote:
I keep hearing that Apple has "stagnated" over the last 3-4 years and this couldn't be further from the truth. Apple's sales have stabilized and not declined sufficiently.
Uh, since Apple hasn't really gained too many sales in the same period, that's the definition of stagnant...
Comments
Originally posted by gar
You could accept the glorious world of windows instead.
Boy, would you be happy.
If you remove the sarcasm tags on that last line, you have the reality for a huge effin' lot of people. That's the problem, entirely.
Originally posted by gar
People are not that interested anymore in monstrious specs for the lowest price.
People are not at all interested in an LCD AIO desktop for a high price and no expandability/upgradability.
It's been argued to death here and you don't have to look any further than sales figures (for both Apple and PC makers) to realize this is true.
Originally posted by bborofka
People are not at all interested in an LCD AIO desktop for a high price and no expandability/upgradability.
It's been argued to death here and you don't have to look any further than sales figures (for both Apple and PC makers) to realize this is true.
You know, I'm worried that IBM's continued low G5 output might cause Apple to put out an AIO Mac because they wouldn't have enough chips to handle the demand of a headless Mac / PowerMac mini.
Originally posted by bborofka
People are not at all interested in an LCD AIO desktop for a high price and no expandability/upgradability.
It's been argued to death here and you don't have to look any further than sales figures (for both Apple and PC makers) to realize this is true.
One could also say that there are not nearly AS MANY all-in-ones as there are headless machines, making sales numbers for non-AIO's look a billion times better than AIO sales.
Originally posted by bborofka
I am not at all interested in an LCD AIO desktop for a high price and no expandability/upgradability.
Fixed that for you.
Originally posted by bborofka
People are not at all interested in an LCD AIO desktop for a high price and no expandability/upgradability.
It's been argued to death here and you don't have to look any further than sales figures (for both Apple and PC makers) to realize this is true.
Now that I couldn't agree more with in respects to the iLamp iMac, but Apple sometimes has a way to design something so beautiful people just must have one.
I like the 1st design big time, but expendability looks difficult at best.
If they get great specs out of it, and keep the cost down it would work.
But it is so gorgeous it would sell regardless.
I think it's going to be similar to the 1st image below, but not as visually pleasing which will be it's downfall. It will be more like the sony Vaio. (second image)
Not as visually pleasing, but still it is similar to what TS reported.
Personally - If I were buying an iMac specs wouldn't be my reason for buying. If I needed specs I would buy a PowerMac, or a PC, but users, and children are gamers in todays world, and that is important to them. I think a lot of iMac's are for kids. Gaming (and specs) are a fundamental part of the structure within the social society of todays youth.
I still think the georgous one would sell regaurdless.
It's not going to be pretty to see the critiques (biache ridden) threads in here after the new iMacs are released. It should be for a fun time.
Peace.
Aggggggghhh!!! Ze goggles...ze do nothing.
You could accept the glorious world of windows instead.
Boy, would you be happy.
a. No I couldn't.
b. No I wouldn't.
I have a PC box. XP is poor. Doesn't make me happy. I have my wife's iBook for now. It makes me happy. So does 'X'.
This has little to do with exempting a crap graphics card in the £2000 iMac G5.
It should have a 2.5 single and a Radeon 9800xt for that kind of price.
Lemon Bon Bon
PS. The white armidillo iMac G5 design is growing on me.
PPS. I'd happily pay the f********* £300/400 extra ($600) to make the top end iMac G5 what it could be.
ie single 2.5 and 9800xt graphics.
What p************ me off is that Apple doesn't give me the choice on a machine costing best part of £2K.
Poor.
Oh well, only a week to go.
Schiller! Schil-Ler! Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!Schiller! Schil-Ler!
Go Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go PhilGo Phil, Go Phil
There is a lot of nVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra graphics card bashing going on.
I have NO plans to play Doom3. I do plan on using: email, Safari, iTunes, iMovie, iPhoto, iDVD, Photoshop Elements (I currently run these on an 800Mhz iMac 15 LCD). I plan on buying and learning FCP, Motion, and Maya PLE. I do plan on maxing out the ram.
A dual 1.8Ghz PM G5, ATI Radeon 9600 and 20 LCD may be twice the cost of the G5 iMac.
Is there a significant disadvantage to running FCP, Motion or Maya on the FX 5200 Ultra for non-professional use? If so what?
Originally posted by Messiahtosh
One could also say that there are not nearly AS MANY all-in-ones as there are headless machines, making sales numbers for non-AIO's look a billion times better than AIO sales.
That's because, in the PC world, product demand drives design. There aren't as many LCD AIO designs out there because they don't sell. Gateway's best seller is, shockingly, NOT the LCD AIO Profile series! But rather, their affordable, flexible tower.
It has been shown time and time again that when given a choice, people will overwhelmingly choose to buy a minitower and LCD bundle rather than an LCD AIO with no expandability. Obviously, there are some people here that are gung-ho on the LCD AIO design, but you guys are a minority.
It's not just me that wants a Mac minitower with a separate monitor, it's what consumers overwhelmingly want and choose to buy.
Ive just sold my iMac 600 G3 and have been saving for a bit and Ive got £550 - £600
Think the Edu iMac will be in my price range, if not theres always the eMac 1.25
thanks Matt
That's because, in the PC world, product demand drives design.
I disagree. PC design is driven by it being a comodity market. With few exceptions, everything is interchangable with PCs... That really doesn't even apply to Macs (No way, no how is Apple going to come out with an ATX motherboard...).
There aren't as many LCD AIO designs out there because they don't sell. Gateway's best seller is, shockingly, NOT the LCD AIO Profile series! But rather, their affordable, flexible tower.
And yet, several years after introducing their AIO machine, Gateway still sells them. If nobody's buying them, Gateway didn't seem to get the memo...
Obviously, there are some people here that are gung-ho on the LCD AIO design, but you guys are a minority.
In case you haven't noticed, so is Apple. If they manage to come out with an iMac that sells so well that it's responsible for quadrupling their market share, they'll still be a small minority. I honestly don't see how it matters at all.
Honestly, I don't see any reason for all this hostility towards AIO machines. They fill a niche, and Apple AIOs have filled it rather well for a long time. They're not going away anytime soon.
Having said that, I agree that Apple needs to come out with a cheaper headless machine (preferably with upgradable video). The fact that you've got to spend $2k just because you want some options for video and/or a monitor is silly. C'mon, Apple-- come out with a $1200 headless machine!
There are as many reasons for buying computers as there are people who buy them. I'd love to see Apple come out with a broader line of machines that appeals to a wider array of buyers.
Take a look at the mini cooper website www.mini.com for an example of expert marketing. Apple needs to do something similar, to walk people through a purchase, and show them what upgrades do and what benefits they have for the customer.
Apple needs to do something about the fact that, for example, my dad can not go to the Apple online store and understand why he should upgrade to an 80 GB HD over a 40 GB one...I doubt he knows what a Gigabyte is.
Apple should be concerned about educating potential customers. I'm sure there are people out there that just dont know anything about computers, but decide to buy one, and get the cheapest one because they dont know ANYTHING about it. Apple needs to have a more informative buying experience.
Originally posted by mattyj
Look, didn't Apple say they were oging to either produce an MP3 player or a cheap desktop??
Where did they say such a thing? I've never heard of it.
Anyway we'll never see a cheap headless mac, Apple is not Dell...
Originally posted by Zapchud
Where did they say such a thing? I've never heard of it.
I heard it. I believe in a SJ interview he said basically stated(paraphrasing) that the iPod is a better deal(ie more profitable) than the lowend computer market. Now I think this of course is going to change but today Apple is better suited to selling the iPods with better margins and lower support costs than lowend computers.
Once Apple beefs up their biz tools then lowend Macs become a more feasible venture into edu and small biz.
Apple's marketing is terrible, no not their TV or print ads, their website is awful.
I have to disagree on the website. I find things much easier on Apple's site versus say Microsoft or Dell.
Apple's store are a step in the right direction. The website should generate the curiousity which should be satisfied by a trip to a Apple Retail or Macintosh retail store. Consumers need to be swayed away from merely comparing specs. That is PC mentality borne from having multiple vendors who sell the same OS same form factors and thus can only differentiate themselves by telling consumers they have 128MB cards versus the competitions 64MB. This leads to shady marketing tactics and consumer confusion.
Apple offers a compelling package that is tailored for the largest cross section of consumers. Most don't do extreme gaming, most don't do high end video/audio. Most do however prefer an easy computer(relatively) and fast enough to do what they want on a daily basis.
Spending more money on a computer fights obsolesence. It has always been that way. Microsoft has already stated the "ideal" specs of a Longhorn system and none of todays Tier 1 vendors are shipping anything close for $2000 or less.
I keep hearing that Apple has "stagnated" over the last 3-4 years and this couldn't be further from the truth. Apple's sales have stabilized and not declined sufficiently. They've migrated to a new HW platform(G5) and got their OS roadmap back on target. They've increased their employee base by %50 and reduced manufacturing liability by outsourcing more.
These are not the action of a company that is struggling or "beleaguered" but rather one that is ensuring their survival and looking to grow rather than looking for short term improvements. Apple will branch out in new areas(Consumer Electronics) and continue to push Macs for DCC work. The future is far rosier than what I'm hearing on these boards. The iMac G5 in its iniatial config doesn't have to be a barn burner. It merely has to get the new form factor out in public to see how consumers take to it as well as see how its thermal characterstics hold up in the real world. I cannot blame Apple for being conservative here.
I'll be inline for the second revision of the iMac G5 regardless of how sucktastic it will inevitably be described as by those who hate Apple hardware that isn't blowing their minds.
Originally posted by hmurchison
I heard it. I believe in a SJ interview he said basically stated(paraphrasing) that the iPod is a better deal(ie more profitable) than the lowend computer market. Now I think this of course is going to change but today Apple is better suited to selling the iPods with better margins and lower support costs than lowend computers.
Yeah, when you say it, I remember it vaguely. It makes sense nonetheless.
Anyway we'll never see a cheap headless mac, Apple is not Dell...
"Cheap" is < $2k? It's 2004, folks, not 1996. Not having a headless machine between $1k & $2k is a hole in Apples lineup big enough to drive a truck through...
[...]
I keep hearing that Apple has "stagnated" over the last 3-4 years and this couldn't be further from the truth. Apple's sales have stabilized and not declined sufficiently.
Uh, since Apple hasn't really gained too many sales in the same period, that's the definition of stagnant...