If Apple doesn't update the G3/CRT iMac and at least add CD-RW Drive increase the speed to 700/800 MHz and price it at least $250 lower then it is, then Apple will lost the education market in public schools.
<strong>If Apple doesn't update the G3/CRT iMac and at least add CD-RW Drive increase the speed to 700/800 MHz and price it at least $250 lower then it is, then Apple will lost the education market in public schools.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The computer you are looking for is the eMac.
And I doubt that schools (you have "districts" in the US, no?) that make big purchases pay anything close to the official education price.
<strong>I don't sign NDAs, yet I still have some knowledge of upcoming products. Even though I haven't signed anything, I still don't reveal anything not public knowledge.</strong><hr></blockquote>Based on your supposed "inside knowledge," can we expect good things from Apple in 2003?
Damn! I hoped no-one would see my post before I edited it.
I don't have any big revelations about new products, and if I did I certainly wouldn't post it for the whole freakin' internet to see.
I happen to have a slightly more informed opinion on what new products are updated when. That is, I might be right 50% of the time as opposed to 30% of the time. But you can acheive a better prediction track record without any insider knowledge at all.
And btw, I am really SJ in desguise. And btw, no new hardware. And btw, I like sushi. (only the real steve jobs would know that).
<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> I dunno...
I think this year all bets are off. As in.. there ARE no bets. Since you are right (mr. thread starter) that we know just about nada, the only things that look probably are iMac updates.
iApps would be nice, but other then that, what SHOULD we expect. Apple's doing a good job at what they do (IMHO) and if they keep things going the way they have been Apple will flourish. Eventually all will see the light and we won't have to tolerate nasty old windows anymore. :cool:
I am the student technology advisor at my school (a Catholic school be it) and I know what we pay, and it is THE education price, even for a $105,000 purchase, of which we made 2 years ago. And are fixin another $75,000 this year, and we still have to pay THE education price, no break off of that.
<strong>Not only do we not know what anything may look like, or what features to expect, but we do not even know codenames.
We used to know mobo codenames, case codenames, product codenames, cpu codenames, and now other than GOBI, we know squat.
My guess is that everyone like their jobs and in this economy there aren't too many jobs out there for anyone who may spill the beans.
The thing is there has to be a least 100 people who know what the next introduction is going too be and most likely there's 500 who know.
I wonder who's in charge of the "shut up" campaign.
Trust me it ain't Steve Jobs. i bet Apple has hired an internal faux employee who is a spook/investigator to root out the talkers.
That's what i would do to stop leaks.
MSKR</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's because Apple fired their leaker. (I'm semi-serious) As for MWSF, It's entirely possible that they will introduce something big (I know in my heart it's going to be an iDevice if anything. (and I think it's fairly likely). JUST HAVE FAITH! <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
<strong>And btw, I am really SJ in desguise. And btw, no new hardware. And btw, I like sushi. (only the real steve jobs would know that).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Apple isn't going anywhere. MWSF will be a good show, don't get your hopes up for anything huge, but also don't be such a sorry waste of life. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Looks like we're going to have another unhappy camper post-keynote on the 7th. Apple needs this, apple needs that, or theyre going to go out of business.
Just like all the other times they didn't live up to the expectations of assholes like you. Yep they're out of business alright. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Um, dummy I'm not asking for duel 970's or something like that. I single processor 1 gig machine with backside cache, 133 mhz bus(sd-ram), and geforce4mx graphics across the line is hardly revolutionary.
In fact it is hardly a decent machine at all. It would mean they are only 12 months behind instead of 18-24 months.
I love how having any expectation of Apple at all is now bashing them.
They do have to do something you nimwit. You think they can just sell 800 mhz machines forever? Besides there is a difference between overhyping something and not meeting the expectation and genuinely not improving your product.
Apple has genuinely not improved the iMac and eMac. It is not some figment of my imagination. They are the same machines they were selling almost one year ago.
Additionally they still intentionally cripple them when they have no processor developments to add to them. Apple has proven they can provide a pseudo DDR machine with 166 mhz bus and duel processors. That means they could easily provide a real single processor 133 mhz sd-ram machine with backside cache and not hurt the currently non-existant powermac sales.
...I single processor 1 gig machine with backside cache, 133 mhz bus(sd-ram), and geforce4mx graphics across the line is hardly revolutionary.
..Besides there is a difference between overhyping something and not meeting the expectation and genuinely not improving your product.
...they still intentionally cripple them when they have no processor developments to add to them. Apple has proven they can provide a pseudo DDR machine with 166 mhz bus and duel processors. That means they could easily provide a real single processor 133 mhz sd-ram machine with backside cache and not hurt the currently non-existant powermac sales.
Nick
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree with most of what you say. My only addition would be,"the iMac should also have a 167MHz bus with DDR sdram. It is the fastest selling desktop computer, right?? Why not at least try to improve sales??
The towers as they stand now are not selling as in previous years, and won't until some fairly dramatic changes in cpu and motherboard occur. Maybe it's just me, but why cripple the iMac because of shortcomings of the towers.
iMacs have generally stayed near the powerbooks in processor speed, so a 1Ghz iMac certainly isn't out of the question. In fact, I expected one 2-5 months ago. I would say that it is a pretty safe bet that at least some of the iMacs will get a 1Ghz processor.
In reality, they should all be 1Ghz, and in 6 months, they should be bumped again. They can use screen size, RAM, optical drive, and hard drive to create different price points. There shouldn't be four of the damn things either. That must be a nightmare for managing inventory. Keep it simple Steve! There should be 2 or 3 iMacs, and they should not cost $2000 either.
Anyway, some realistic predictions:
New iMacs with a minor case revision. The revision may be internal to make manufacturing cheaper and simpler. Either way, they are mature enough to be getting a price cut and the new low end should be starting at $999. This is in line with original iMac prices which started at $1299, dropped to $1199, and then went to $999 about a year after release with a case revision. The case revision would probably, among other things, make both ram slots full size (thus cheaper) and easier to access.
At least 1Ghz processors. If Apple is smart they will put the same processor in all machines to make inventory easier to manage (each machine having the exact same mobo with the same processor soldered on). With 1Ghz processors, it would be wise to use a 133Mhz bus because 1Ghz without any L3 cache will be asphyxiated by a 100Mhz bus, and these are cheap consumer machines so don't expect any Level 3 cache. If we're lucky, they'll have the latest G4 revision which has 512k on chip cache as opposed to 256 in the current ones. That and a 133Mhz bus should be sufficient for 1Ghz or even 1.066 Ghz, for that would put the processor to bus ratio at 8:1 which is the same as the current iMacs.
The video should be the same on all new iMacs as well if Apple is trying to be efficient with their costs, and the wise choice would be for the video to be a GeForce 4 MX on all machines. It's not really much better than the GeForce 2MX, but it is an improvment over most of the current iMacs. I'd guess that they would stick with 32MB video memory on these and then bump them to 64MB in 6 months or so when they do another revision.
Following apple trends, I would then expect the iMacs to be like this:
$999
1Ghz processor
133 Mhz bus
GeForce 4MX w/ 32MB
40 GB Hard Drive
128 MB RAM
CD-ROM
15" Screen
$1299
1Ghz processor
133 Mhz bus
GeForce 4MX w/ 32MB
60 GB Hard Drive
256 MB RAM
Combo Drive
17" Screen
$1499
1Ghz processor
133 Mhz bus
GeForce 4MX w/ 32MB
80 GB Hard Drive
512 MB RAM
Super Drive
17" Screen
Well, in reality the two higher models would probably cost more, but it would be nice if those prices were true. There have been many rumors of a 19" screen. If that is true, it would be on a $2000 version of the iMac, but really, these things should be cheap.
eMacs should be bumped before the next educational buying season with a $200 price drop across the board, and minor improvments to at least some of the specifications (processor, hard drive, ram, bus, etc)
Classic iMacs should be discontinued and replaced with cheap eMacs or sharply dropped in price. Well, maybe they'll stick around until June for people who want to run OS 9.
iBooks and PowerBooks will probably be updated before June, but I wouldn't expect much, if anything, for them at MWSF.
A wise thing for iBooks in the future might be to stop having two screen sizes and just make a 13" iBook for the next revision, something of a compromise between the two existing iBooks, and price them at $999 for the basic model and $1299 for the faster combo drive model, like they do for the 12 inch books now. Maybe they could add a super drive model for $1499 on top of that. An extra inch for the same price isn't too much to expect, especilaly since this is where Apple is most competitive. They don't need to have two different sized iBooks. This makes development and inventory management more difficult and thus more expensive. The extra inch of screen size would also mean a slightly larger case. The extra room could be used to make them sturdier, put in full size ram to keep costs down, and use a slightly larger battery to get even more life out of them. Also, the iBook does not need a G4 processor! However, before taking the G3 to higher speeds in these machines, they should improve the bus speed. The G3s they use now are capable of 200Mhz bus speeds with DDR memory. Apple just doesn't want the iBooks technology to pull ahead of the PowerBook technology.
On that note, I think the next PowerBooks will have a 200Mhz FSB and 400Mhz DDR memory. The next G4 revision is rumored to support this, and the next PowerMacs will probably use this. The PowerBook will probably follow suit a few months after the PowerMacs are updated. This will help keep the PowerBook in line with high-end PC laptops, another area where Apple is capable of competing and should continue to push the envelope to stay competitive. 1.0 and 1.2 Ghz G4 DDR PowerBooks will probably be the next revision and it will probably happen by June at the latest.
I have no guesses about the next PowerMacs aside from them using 200Mhz FSB and 400Mhz DDR memory. I would not expect the low end model to be any lower than 1GZ, and the high end will probably be 1.4Ghz or 1.6 Ghz. Apple would be wise to keep them all duals and maybe drop the prices back to where they were before September. (Drop the three models 100, 200, and 300 dollars.)
I have no insider information, these are all guesses based on realistic expectations of the processor development and trends in Apple's marketing.
I don't believe all of this will be ready at MWSF either. Most of these products were updated in the last 4 months, so I think some of the product line revisions will wait a few months past MWSF, but every single product Apple currently makes should be updated or discontinued by the end of June.
The reason you guys have no substantial information on MWFS is because you are all looking in the wrong direction.
Facts:
1. Steve Jobs said that 2003 would be very important for apple.
2. Steve Jobs said no OS 9 Booting on new or upgraded machines in 2003.
3. We know that the PPC970 is a great 64bit PowerPC compatible Processor that apple could use.
4. We know that Steve Wozniak will be at MWSF.
5. A few months ago IBM posted a rumor article on their website stating that the 970 would be used in Macs.
6. IBM states the (970 to be ready 2Q-03, but we also know that this does not have to be correct. And does not have to apply to a special Apple deal.
7. iMacs need update... Bad.
8. Powermacs need update very badly.
....I think this is enough info to assume what is to come. Also you guys have to realize that apple is pulling out of the whole MacWorld thing. This may be the last one. The silence doesn't mean anything in of its self, but look at it with a different perspective and you'll see that it really isn't all that silent.
The main reason I m skeptical about a big show is that Tokyo is cancelled. Why would they do this if they were going to release substantially new and different equipment?
IMO, this is most damaging to any iPhone/PDA/Tablet rumors because Japan has always been a great market for these small devices. But maybe the iPhone would only work in N.America at first.
My fingers will remain crossed until summer. Thats when I hope things start to come together.
Comments
<strong>If Apple doesn't update the G3/CRT iMac and at least add CD-RW Drive increase the speed to 700/800 MHz and price it at least $250 lower then it is, then Apple will lost the education market in public schools.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The computer you are looking for is the eMac.
And I doubt that schools (you have "districts" in the US, no?) that make big purchases pay anything close to the official education price.
Barto
[ 12-29-2002: Message edited by: Barto ]</p>
<strong>I don't sign NDAs, yet I still have some knowledge of upcoming products. Even though I haven't signed anything, I still don't reveal anything not public knowledge.</strong><hr></blockquote>Based on your supposed "inside knowledge," can we expect good things from Apple in 2003?
I don't have any big revelations about new products, and if I did I certainly wouldn't post it for the whole freakin' internet to see.
I happen to have a slightly more informed opinion on what new products are updated when. That is, I might be right 50% of the time as opposed to 30% of the time. But you can acheive a better prediction track record without any insider knowledge at all.
Barto
[ 12-29-2002: Message edited by: Barto ]</p>
<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> I dunno...
I think this year all bets are off. As in.. there ARE no bets. Since you are right (mr. thread starter) that we know just about nada, the only things that look probably are iMac updates.
iApps would be nice, but other then that, what SHOULD we expect. Apple's doing a good job at what they do (IMHO) and if they keep things going the way they have been Apple will flourish. Eventually all will see the light and we won't have to tolerate nasty old windows anymore. :cool:
We used to know mobo codenames, case codenames, product codenames, cpu codenames, and now other than GOBI, we know squat.
My guess is that everyone like their jobs and in this economy there aren't too many jobs out there for anyone who may spill the beans.
The thing is there has to be a least 100 people who know what the next introduction is going too be and most likely there's 500 who know.
I wonder who's in charge of the "shut up" campaign.
Trust me it ain't Steve Jobs. i bet Apple has hired an internal faux employee who is a spook/investigator to root out the talkers.
That's what i would do to stop leaks.
MSKR
<strong>
The computer you are looking for is the eMac.
And I doubt that schools (you have "districts" in the US, no?) that make big purchases pay anything close to the official education price.
Barto
[ 12-29-2002: Message edited by: Barto ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I am the student technology advisor at my school (a Catholic school be it) and I know what we pay, and it is THE education price, even for a $105,000 purchase, of which we made 2 years ago. And are fixin another $75,000 this year, and we still have to pay THE education price, no break off of that.
<strong>Not only do we not know what anything may look like, or what features to expect, but we do not even know codenames.
We used to know mobo codenames, case codenames, product codenames, cpu codenames, and now other than GOBI, we know squat.
My guess is that everyone like their jobs and in this economy there aren't too many jobs out there for anyone who may spill the beans.
The thing is there has to be a least 100 people who know what the next introduction is going too be and most likely there's 500 who know.
I wonder who's in charge of the "shut up" campaign.
Trust me it ain't Steve Jobs. i bet Apple has hired an internal faux employee who is a spook/investigator to root out the talkers.
That's what i would do to stop leaks.
MSKR</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's because Apple fired their leaker.
Oh, so that's been cancelled? :cool:
Well you could wait anyway
<strong>And btw, I am really SJ in desguise. And btw, no new hardware. And btw, I like sushi. (only the real steve jobs would know that).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Veggy sushi? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
<strong>
Apple isn't going anywhere. MWSF will be a good show, don't get your hopes up for anything huge, but also don't be such a sorry waste of life. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Looks like we're going to have another unhappy camper post-keynote on the 7th. Apple needs this, apple needs that, or theyre going to go out of business.
Just like all the other times they didn't live up to the expectations of assholes like you. Yep they're out of business alright. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Um, dummy I'm not asking for duel 970's or something like that. I single processor 1 gig machine with backside cache, 133 mhz bus(sd-ram), and geforce4mx graphics across the line is hardly revolutionary.
In fact it is hardly a decent machine at all. It would mean they are only 12 months behind instead of 18-24 months.
I love how having any expectation of Apple at all is now bashing them.
They do have to do something you nimwit. You think they can just sell 800 mhz machines forever? Besides there is a difference between overhyping something and not meeting the expectation and genuinely not improving your product.
Apple has genuinely not improved the iMac and eMac. It is not some figment of my imagination. They are the same machines they were selling almost one year ago.
Additionally they still intentionally cripple them when they have no processor developments to add to them. Apple has proven they can provide a pseudo DDR machine with 166 mhz bus and duel processors. That means they could easily provide a real single processor 133 mhz sd-ram machine with backside cache and not hurt the currently non-existant powermac sales.
Nick
[ 12-30-2002: Message edited by: trumptman ]</p>
<strong>
...I single processor 1 gig machine with backside cache, 133 mhz bus(sd-ram), and geforce4mx graphics across the line is hardly revolutionary.
..Besides there is a difference between overhyping something and not meeting the expectation and genuinely not improving your product.
...they still intentionally cripple them when they have no processor developments to add to them. Apple has proven they can provide a pseudo DDR machine with 166 mhz bus and duel processors. That means they could easily provide a real single processor 133 mhz sd-ram machine with backside cache and not hurt the currently non-existant powermac sales.
Nick
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree with most of what you say. My only addition would be,"the iMac should also have a 167MHz bus with DDR sdram. It is the fastest selling desktop computer, right?? Why not at least try to improve sales??
The towers as they stand now are not selling as in previous years, and won't until some fairly dramatic changes in cpu and motherboard occur. Maybe it's just me, but why cripple the iMac because of shortcomings of the towers.
[ 12-30-2002: Message edited by: rickag ]</p>
In reality, they should all be 1Ghz, and in 6 months, they should be bumped again. They can use screen size, RAM, optical drive, and hard drive to create different price points. There shouldn't be four of the damn things either. That must be a nightmare for managing inventory. Keep it simple Steve! There should be 2 or 3 iMacs, and they should not cost $2000 either.
Anyway, some realistic predictions:
New iMacs with a minor case revision. The revision may be internal to make manufacturing cheaper and simpler. Either way, they are mature enough to be getting a price cut and the new low end should be starting at $999. This is in line with original iMac prices which started at $1299, dropped to $1199, and then went to $999 about a year after release with a case revision. The case revision would probably, among other things, make both ram slots full size (thus cheaper) and easier to access.
At least 1Ghz processors. If Apple is smart they will put the same processor in all machines to make inventory easier to manage (each machine having the exact same mobo with the same processor soldered on). With 1Ghz processors, it would be wise to use a 133Mhz bus because 1Ghz without any L3 cache will be asphyxiated by a 100Mhz bus, and these are cheap consumer machines so don't expect any Level 3 cache. If we're lucky, they'll have the latest G4 revision which has 512k on chip cache as opposed to 256 in the current ones. That and a 133Mhz bus should be sufficient for 1Ghz or even 1.066 Ghz, for that would put the processor to bus ratio at 8:1 which is the same as the current iMacs.
The video should be the same on all new iMacs as well if Apple is trying to be efficient with their costs, and the wise choice would be for the video to be a GeForce 4 MX on all machines. It's not really much better than the GeForce 2MX, but it is an improvment over most of the current iMacs. I'd guess that they would stick with 32MB video memory on these and then bump them to 64MB in 6 months or so when they do another revision.
Following apple trends, I would then expect the iMacs to be like this:
$999
1Ghz processor
133 Mhz bus
GeForce 4MX w/ 32MB
40 GB Hard Drive
128 MB RAM
CD-ROM
15" Screen
$1299
1Ghz processor
133 Mhz bus
GeForce 4MX w/ 32MB
60 GB Hard Drive
256 MB RAM
Combo Drive
17" Screen
$1499
1Ghz processor
133 Mhz bus
GeForce 4MX w/ 32MB
80 GB Hard Drive
512 MB RAM
Super Drive
17" Screen
Well, in reality the two higher models would probably cost more, but it would be nice if those prices were true. There have been many rumors of a 19" screen. If that is true, it would be on a $2000 version of the iMac, but really, these things should be cheap.
eMacs should be bumped before the next educational buying season with a $200 price drop across the board, and minor improvments to at least some of the specifications (processor, hard drive, ram, bus, etc)
Classic iMacs should be discontinued and replaced with cheap eMacs or sharply dropped in price. Well, maybe they'll stick around until June for people who want to run OS 9.
iBooks and PowerBooks will probably be updated before June, but I wouldn't expect much, if anything, for them at MWSF.
A wise thing for iBooks in the future might be to stop having two screen sizes and just make a 13" iBook for the next revision, something of a compromise between the two existing iBooks, and price them at $999 for the basic model and $1299 for the faster combo drive model, like they do for the 12 inch books now. Maybe they could add a super drive model for $1499 on top of that. An extra inch for the same price isn't too much to expect, especilaly since this is where Apple is most competitive. They don't need to have two different sized iBooks. This makes development and inventory management more difficult and thus more expensive. The extra inch of screen size would also mean a slightly larger case. The extra room could be used to make them sturdier, put in full size ram to keep costs down, and use a slightly larger battery to get even more life out of them. Also, the iBook does not need a G4 processor! However, before taking the G3 to higher speeds in these machines, they should improve the bus speed. The G3s they use now are capable of 200Mhz bus speeds with DDR memory. Apple just doesn't want the iBooks technology to pull ahead of the PowerBook technology.
On that note, I think the next PowerBooks will have a 200Mhz FSB and 400Mhz DDR memory. The next G4 revision is rumored to support this, and the next PowerMacs will probably use this. The PowerBook will probably follow suit a few months after the PowerMacs are updated. This will help keep the PowerBook in line with high-end PC laptops, another area where Apple is capable of competing and should continue to push the envelope to stay competitive. 1.0 and 1.2 Ghz G4 DDR PowerBooks will probably be the next revision and it will probably happen by June at the latest.
I have no guesses about the next PowerMacs aside from them using 200Mhz FSB and 400Mhz DDR memory. I would not expect the low end model to be any lower than 1GZ, and the high end will probably be 1.4Ghz or 1.6 Ghz. Apple would be wise to keep them all duals and maybe drop the prices back to where they were before September. (Drop the three models 100, 200, and 300 dollars.)
I have no insider information, these are all guesses based on realistic expectations of the processor development and trends in Apple's marketing.
I don't believe all of this will be ready at MWSF either. Most of these products were updated in the last 4 months, so I think some of the product line revisions will wait a few months past MWSF, but every single product Apple currently makes should be updated or discontinued by the end of June.
[ 12-30-2002: Message edited by: Aquatic ]</p>
Facts:
1. Steve Jobs said that 2003 would be very important for apple.
2. Steve Jobs said no OS 9 Booting on new or upgraded machines in 2003.
3. We know that the PPC970 is a great 64bit PowerPC compatible Processor that apple could use.
4. We know that Steve Wozniak will be at MWSF.
5. A few months ago IBM posted a rumor article on their website stating that the 970 would be used in Macs.
6. IBM states the (970 to be ready 2Q-03, but we also know that this does not have to be correct. And does not have to apply to a special Apple deal.
7. iMacs need update... Bad.
8. Powermacs need update very badly.
....I think this is enough info to assume what is to come. Also you guys have to realize that apple is pulling out of the whole MacWorld thing. This may be the last one. The silence doesn't mean anything in of its self, but look at it with a different perspective and you'll see that it really isn't all that silent.
IMO, this is most damaging to any iPhone/PDA/Tablet rumors because Japan has always been a great market for these small devices. But maybe the iPhone would only work in N.America at first.
My fingers will remain crossed until summer. Thats when I hope things start to come together.
<strong>The silence is suspicious.</strong><hr></blockquote>
My thoughts exactly.
You all are forgetting about the Xserve the unreleased Xserve RAID.
<strong>
My thoughts exactly.
You all are forgetting about the Xserve the unreleased Xserve RAID.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think that Apple will release the Xserve RAID at Macworld Expo.