IBM's G3 uses a 0.13µm process, mmmmmm. IBM allegedly manufactured G4's when Motorola had problems. The IBM roadmap show's them implementing SIMID. Sooooo, I conclude the next update will be (fill in the blank)
This isn't exactly 7447/7557, but it involves Moto processors and I didn't want to start yet another processor thread.
This article was pointed out over at MacAch - it mentions a G6 from Moto that may be available by the end of 2003. It is apparently from MilitaryÂ*& Aerospace Electronics and is dated May 29, 2002. Anybody have some insight on the validity of this? Is there really a G6 desktop processor in the works, and will it really be available by the end of 2003 or soon thereafter?
[quote]There has been disappointment in the DSP world that the current proposed architecture for G5 (the MPC8500 series) is not AltiVec-enabled, leading many to continue banking on further improvements in the G4 line until release of the G6 -- perhaps by the end of 2003. The G5 architecture does, however, call for a built-in RapidIO interface, which also is something many in the industry are anticipating; the G6 is expected to have AltiVec and RapidIO, although performance parameters are defined by the telecommunications and computer industries, not the military. <hr></blockquote>
<strong> Is there really a G6 desktop processor in the works, and will it really be available by the end of 2003 or soon thereafter?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Motorolla has chips they call G5, and G6. These are embedded processors, they are not likely intended for Desktops, or even Laptops. They are probably for telecommunications equipment, or something similar, and totally unsuitable for Apple.
They are probably for telecommunications equipment, or something similar, and totally unsuitable for Apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>
From the text above, it mentions computer industries...
"the G6 is expected to have AltiVec and RapidIO, although performance parameters are defined by the telecommunications and computer industries, not the military.
From the text above, it mentions computer industries...
"the G6 is expected to have AltiVec and RapidIO, although performance parameters are defined by the telecommunications and computer industries, not the military.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly my point. The G5 chips are obviously not suited to desktop use (at least by Apple) due to lack of Altivec. If the G6 does include Altivec, then there's no reason (in principle) that Apple couldn't use them. Technically, the G4 is an embedded chip, but that hasn't stopped its use as a desktop processor as well. It's the "end of 2003" that I find most intriguing - is this still on track for that timeframe, or has it been (very likely) delayed (or cancelled)?
<strong>I imagine that a G6 with altivec would do quite nicely in tablets and inexpensive notebooks.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I doubt it. A new core will probably increase complexity and therefore heat and power, relative to a G4 on the same process. If Motorola retains the G4 but moves it to a smaller process (i.e. 7457-RM and beyond) then it will be the best choice for low end notebooks (or an IBM G3 w/VMX and RIO). The G6 might simply be such a thing, however, given the minimal redesign efforts Motorola has been putting out.
They probably just didn't make volume production in time for Apple's latest round of updates. My prediction is still a complete lineup refresh this summer (Aug-Sept) with the 7447/7457 in the consumer and notebook machines, and the 970 in the towers. WWDC is a likely place for the 970 to be first mentioned by Apple since 64-bitness is a thing developers care about.
<strong>They probably just didn't make volume production in time for Apple's latest round of updates. My prediction is still a complete lineup refresh this summer (Aug-Sept) with the 7447/7457 in the consumer and notebook machines, and the 970 in the towers. WWDC is a likely place for the 970 to be first mentioned by Apple since 64-bitness is a thing developers care about.</strong><hr></blockquote>
When is WWDC?
Man apple has been in the dumps with the G4 so long it is hard to imagine them ever getting back on their feet. I figure if the 7457 was about ready apple would have just waited. I mean the 1.42Ghz 7455 isn't ready yet anyway. They are not shipping for a few weeks still.
If motorola claims that the 7455 can only go 1Ghz, but apple has them going 1.42Ghz, I imagine Motorola's claim that the 7457's top speed is 1.3ghz is incorrent. Do you think we will see 1.6Ghz 7457 soon? This really does seem like a waiting period right now.
Also, because of the 970's huge performance jump, apple will have to update their other lines at or around the same time. So maybe, come september apple will update everything again. I can't wait.
[quote] Man apple has been in the dumps with the G4 so long it is hard to imagine them ever getting back on their feet. <hr></blockquote>
You sound completely fed up, Agol!
As for the '57'. So, so. Maybe it is not insignificant that Apple has almost updated everything in the last month-ish!!!
By the time May's conference zips around, Apple will surely have to mention the 64-bit question. And...and a month of lost sales won't make a blind bit of difference to a New York 970 intro'. As sales dip before a conference anyhow!
IT could also explain the less than spectacular updates to the imac2. ie, Apple went as close as they could with what they had. All the updates are less than spectacular from a cpu point of view. Like a technical bottleneck or 'sandbagging' for something completely new in the Summer which will turn the whole line-up upside down again. Therefore, 'sync' updates to the whole line in the Winter. 970 arrives in New York and come late Summer?
'57s' rip roar into iMac 2 with 1 - 1.4/6 gig machines.
Powerbooks with 1 gig to 1.4 gig.
iBooks on updates IBM G3s breaking the 1 gig barrier.
That's less than half of what 7455 uses.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, rather impressive. The 7447 is probably even lower power and cheaper thanks to reduced pin count and no L3 cache tags & controller. We might see it appear in iBooks or PowerBooks. Unless of course IBM delivers a G3 w/ VMX at an even lower power level.
<strong>The 7447 is probably even lower power and cheaper thanks to reduced pin count and no L3 cache tags & controller. We might see it appear in iBooks or PowerBooks.</strong><hr></blockquote>Hardly. Apple have never in the past used these 744x-processors. I don't expect them to do so now. I don't think the performance loss justifies the lower power consumption.
But.. if a 7457 @ 1 GHz draws just 7.5 Ws, what's (cool.. it rhymes keeping them from putting two of those in PowerBooks? Certainly not issues with power or heat, and there's certainly room for them in the PowerBook 17".
And.. the same goes for PowerMacs and Servers.. What's stopping them from putting four 7457 in those babies? Certainly not excessive heat emissions.
memory limitations would appear to make 4 G4's pointless most of the time. A rapidIO G4 might cure that problem, but 970's will be ready by then. I can imagine how much faster a fast FSB G4 would be? Maybe not PPC970 league fast, but certainly enough to make a DP laptop very interesting.
I've heard it suggested on this board that the '57 will be a pin compatible with the '55. If that's the case, why wouldn't Apple go with the '57 across the board as soon as they become available?
Comments
IBM's G3 uses a 0.13µm process, mmmmmm. IBM allegedly manufactured G4's when Motorola had problems. The IBM roadmap show's them implementing SIMID. Sooooo, I conclude the next update will be (fill in the blank)
<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
This article was pointed out over at MacAch - it mentions a G6 from Moto that may be available by the end of 2003. It is apparently from MilitaryÂ*& Aerospace Electronics and is dated May 29, 2002. Anybody have some insight on the validity of this? Is there really a G6 desktop processor in the works, and will it really be available by the end of 2003 or soon thereafter?
<a href="http://www.infinibandta.org/parchives/clippings/msg00072.html"; target="_blank">Infiniband Clippings</a>
Edit: Added pertinent quote:
[quote]There has been disappointment in the DSP world that the current proposed architecture for G5 (the MPC8500 series) is not AltiVec-enabled, leading many to continue banking on further improvements in the G4 line until release of the G6 -- perhaps by the end of 2003. The G5 architecture does, however, call for a built-in RapidIO interface, which also is something many in the industry are anticipating; the G6 is expected to have AltiVec and RapidIO, although performance parameters are defined by the telecommunications and computer industries, not the military. <hr></blockquote>
[ 02-05-2003: Message edited by: TJM ]</p>
<strong> Is there really a G6 desktop processor in the works, and will it really be available by the end of 2003 or soon thereafter?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Motorolla has chips they call G5, and G6. These are embedded processors, they are not likely intended for Desktops, or even Laptops. They are probably for telecommunications equipment, or something similar, and totally unsuitable for Apple.
<strong>
They are probably for telecommunications equipment, or something similar, and totally unsuitable for Apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>
From the text above, it mentions computer industries...
"the G6 is expected to have AltiVec and RapidIO, although performance parameters are defined by the telecommunications and computer industries, not the military.
<strong>
From the text above, it mentions computer industries...
"the G6 is expected to have AltiVec and RapidIO, although performance parameters are defined by the telecommunications and computer industries, not the military.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly my point. The G5 chips are obviously not suited to desktop use (at least by Apple) due to lack of Altivec. If the G6 does include Altivec, then there's no reason (in principle) that Apple couldn't use them. Technically, the G4 is an embedded chip, but that hasn't stopped its use as a desktop processor as well. It's the "end of 2003" that I find most intriguing - is this still on track for that timeframe, or has it been (very likely) delayed (or cancelled)?
<strong>I imagine that a G6 with altivec would do quite nicely in tablets and inexpensive notebooks.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I doubt it. A new core will probably increase complexity and therefore heat and power, relative to a G4 on the same process. If Motorola retains the G4 but moves it to a smaller process (i.e. 7457-RM and beyond) then it will be the best choice for low end notebooks (or an IBM G3 w/VMX and RIO). The G6 might simply be such a thing, however, given the minimal redesign efforts Motorola has been putting out.
<a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/MPC7457FS.pdf"; target="_blank">MPC7457FS Fact Sheet</a>
How fast might they get? 1.66GHz? Then maybe Apple could do duals, and we could have 3.3GHz of processing power on a 166MHz bus.
<strong>So when is this chip going to be available? Why is apple not using it?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, since Motorola has a fact sheet available, I'd say soon. Maybe the high end Powermac will have it.
<strong>They probably just didn't make volume production in time for Apple's latest round of updates. My prediction is still a complete lineup refresh this summer (Aug-Sept) with the 7447/7457 in the consumer and notebook machines, and the 970 in the towers. WWDC is a likely place for the 970 to be first mentioned by Apple since 64-bitness is a thing developers care about.</strong><hr></blockquote>
When is WWDC?
Man apple has been in the dumps with the G4 so long it is hard to imagine them ever getting back on their feet. I figure if the 7457 was about ready apple would have just waited. I mean the 1.42Ghz 7455 isn't ready yet anyway. They are not shipping for a few weeks still.
If motorola claims that the 7455 can only go 1Ghz, but apple has them going 1.42Ghz, I imagine Motorola's claim that the 7457's top speed is 1.3ghz is incorrent. Do you think we will see 1.6Ghz 7457 soon? This really does seem like a waiting period right now.
Also, because of the 970's huge performance jump, apple will have to update their other lines at or around the same time. So maybe, come september apple will update everything again. I can't wait.
<strong>
When is WWDC?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
May.
You sound completely fed up, Agol!
As for the '57'. So, so. Maybe it is not insignificant that Apple has almost updated everything in the last month-ish!!!
By the time May's conference zips around, Apple will surely have to mention the 64-bit question. And...and a month of lost sales won't make a blind bit of difference to a New York 970 intro'. As sales dip before a conference anyhow!
IT could also explain the less than spectacular updates to the imac2. ie, Apple went as close as they could with what they had. All the updates are less than spectacular from a cpu point of view. Like a technical bottleneck or 'sandbagging' for something completely new in the Summer which will turn the whole line-up upside down again. Therefore, 'sync' updates to the whole line in the Winter. 970 arrives in New York and come late Summer?
'57s' rip roar into iMac 2 with 1 - 1.4/6 gig machines.
Powerbooks with 1 gig to 1.4 gig.
iBooks on updates IBM G3s breaking the 1 gig barrier.
eMacs upto 1.4 gig.
POWERMacs get the fabled 'G5'.
Just my supposition.
Lemon Bon Bon
7457 @ 1 GHz = 7.5 W
7457 @ 1.3 GHz = 12.6 W
This would be very nice in an notebook!
That's less than half of what 7455 uses.
<strong>I think this is impressive:
7457 @ 1 GHz = 7.5 W
7457 @ 1.3 GHz = 12.6 W
This would be very nice in an notebook!
That's less than half of what 7455 uses.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, rather impressive. The 7447 is probably even lower power and cheaper thanks to reduced pin count and no L3 cache tags & controller. We might see it appear in iBooks or PowerBooks. Unless of course IBM delivers a G3 w/ VMX at an even lower power level.
<strong>The 7447 is probably even lower power and cheaper thanks to reduced pin count and no L3 cache tags & controller. We might see it appear in iBooks or PowerBooks.</strong><hr></blockquote>Hardly. Apple have never in the past used these 744x-processors. I don't expect them to do so now. I don't think the performance loss justifies the lower power consumption.
But.. if a 7457 @ 1 GHz draws just 7.5 Ws, what's (cool.. it rhymes
And.. the same goes for PowerMacs and Servers.. What's stopping them from putting four 7457 in those babies? Certainly not excessive heat emissions.
[ 02-08-2003: Message edited by: Henriok ]</p>