It'll be interesting to find out exactly who's designing this phone.
Jobs isn't the kind of person to leave design decisions to another company if there's an Apple logo on the product.
This is, after all, the same guy who's picked out colours for the interface elements in some of the company's software.
And he's also admitted that Apple designed but never released a PDA.
While the first phone in this alliance will likely center around iTunes capabilities and have no QWERTY pad, could the next version see Apple in the Smartphone business taking on the Treo 650?
Could this be why Palm is preparing to torpedo Mac support in its future products?
And he's also admitted that Apple designed but never released a PDA.
Once and for all, he did not say that, and curse Kasper for propagating that persistent myth.
Quote:
MOSSBERG:Does that mean that you?d be interested at least in looking at some of these other products over time?
JOBS: We look at a lot of things but I?m as proud of the products that we have not done as I am of the ones we have done.
MOSSBERG:What's your favorite thing you?ve not done?
JOBS: A PDA. We got enormous pressure to do a PDA and we looked at it and we said, ?Wait a minute, 90% of the people that use these things just want to get information out of them, they don?t necessarily want to put information into them on a regular basis and cellphones are going to do that.? So getting into the PDA market means getting into the cellphone market. And you know, we?re not so good at selling to the enterprise where you've got, in the Fortune 500, five hundred orifices called CIOs. In the cellphone market you?ve got five. And so we figured we're not going to be very good at that.
i think a first gen AppMot? phone will suck for power users like us. We will hate it, bitch at it, ask why its missing a ton of standard things we're used to.... but it will be a hit with joe-user (just like the iPod has been).... and then, in late 2005 or early 2006, a 2nd gen AppMot? GSM will come out with 2 or 3 variants to make everyone happy, from basic user to power user.
I am SO looking to change my Nokia 6600 with something new and if there is an AppMot? phone that is good enough, I'll take the bait despite already knowing it'll suck in the first gen.
ZO
The first gen, second gen and third and fourth gen iPods do not suck. Motorola phones have a habit of lacking features that sony put on theirs. We'll have to wait and see though
Once and for all, he did not say that, and curse Kasper for propagating that persistent myth.
Thank you john. I've been battling the 'finished but unreleased PDA' myth for a while too.
Back on topic:
It's interesting that Apple is getting involved in the feature-list mongering gadget game. Normally, their products differ significantly from these, focusing more on key features than on having the longest list. Thus... I wonder what kind of influence apple will have on these phones.
Can someone point out to me where it says Apple are doing more than just co-developing an iTunes mobile application for Motorola phones?
Seems like everyone thinks that Apple is getting in on the hardware side of things but I just don't buy it.
Precisely.
How we get from Apple making a version of iTunes called "iTunes Mobile Music" for Motorola phones, to "Apple and Motorola could soon introduce the mobile phone the two companies are developing to play music" is beyond me.
Based on all the public announcements I've seen, it is not specific hardware, but merely software. Eddy Cue, oft quoted, is vice president in charge of applications at Apple, not hardware. His generalities morph magically into specifics at the hands of the Forbes reporter.
Quote:
In true Apple style, Cue declined to say whether Jobs will indeed address the phone at that event. ?What we?ve talked about is a something that is valuable for the mass market,? Cue says. ?It has to be a phone in the middle-tier of the market, not a $500-tier phone. It has to be very seamless to use. And we?re very happy with the results.? ? FORBES
Cue is speaking in general. In general, if Apple wanted iTunes on a cell phone, "it has to be a phone in the middle-tier of the market, not a $500-tier phone. It has to be very seamless to use. And we're very happy with the results.".
Cue is jumping from 1. talking about the price range of phones (of any maker's phones, initially) that "iTunes Mobile Music" would need to work on, then 2. how the iTunes-on-a-cell-phone experience would need to be to meet Apple's standards, then to 3. how well the "iTunes Mobile Music" application is working on the Motorola phone or phones it is initially being developed for.
Yet all this is mangled by the reporter into meaning "the phone".
That Motorola might also be making more multimedia savvy phones at the same time is not a surprise and would be happening regardless of the Apple partnership. But this does not mean they are making an iPhone.
Don't expect Jonathan Ive to be unveiling a beautiful new iPhone anytime soon kiddies.
Yes, there will likely also be a nice new Motorola phone or series, hyped to the max, that will be the first to be able to run the "iTunes Mobile Music" application, but the goal is getting the software on the middle-tier Motorola phones, not merely to introduce a single Apple-designed and styled iPhone thingy.
Do I want and hope there will be an iPhone? Sure. I just don't see it based on the public statements.
I talked with my friend last night... he works for Motorola. He said that Motorola is a buzz with the new phone and says that it the phone runs the ipod software and is an integration of a cell phone and ipod (flash based).
Its gonna basically be a normal moto phone that has an extra app that syncs with iTunes on Mac and PC.
lets hope the 2nd gen will bring forth an Apple Industrial Design with whole new interface, ease of use, etc.
I'm especially waiting for perfect syncing. I have SO many issues with keeping the address book on my .Mac, 2 macs, and Nokia 6600 coordinated. I always get duplicates, old numbers get reinserted, etc. I SO hate it and there doesnt seem to be any solution.
thnx to messiahtosh and the actual video of the event, we see clearly that it is an iTunes app and song download app maybe even involving flash or brew even. no other apple involvement. they didnt even let him appear in person, for god sake, and doesnt it appear as if those two moto sharpie guys are humoring steve in some sort of way? that video is amazing. i am surprised it has been allowed to be put out as promotional in any way. moto and mac. very uninteresting combination.
vodafone is already doing the music download thing in its 3g markets already with some non iTunes libraries.
i love convergence. voice/data/camera/and music. but moto doesnt lead.
only thing midly interesting will be to see what external storage device format is used: moto will not use the new 1 gig Sony Duo Pro format, so maybe they will stick with a 512 MB SD, which would sync about 100 songs.
nothing interesting here, move on.
except for 1 more channel for iTunes to be sold, which is great for apple.
To all who are enchanting the next apple killer product: Well, as far as i understand the whole announcement, apple contributes software, moto does the hardware, no line mentioned about apple designing anything. Sorry guys. Period.
I don't want to be seen as a bummer but don't expect top notch design at all. Moto cell phones, anyone?
Music downloads via cell phones is a logical step anyways.
OK, so it looks like theres a few ways this Apple/Moto/phone/iPod flash thing could pan out:
1. 'iPod flash' is a standalone iPod with flash memory.
2. 'Moto iPhone' is an iTunes application installed on Moto phones.
3. 'iPod flash' and 'Moto iPhone' are the same thing, is an iPod with flash memory and phone internals, using an iPod interface/screen.
iPod flash as a standalone music player would be playing safe, bringing the iPod name lower down to the mass market flash players. There is a market for a sub mini iPod, how many times have you heard or read 'I'd love an iPod, but they're too expensive'? The iPod mini went some of the way, an iPod flash would go further.
If it was phone software, why limit it to Motorola phones? I don't know figures for market share, but I'd guess that the majority of the phone market was held by Nokia and SonyEricsson, and that as far as units sold go, Moto are a comparatively minor player. Unless they license it later on to other phone makers...
A true iPod/phone crossover would be the outside bet, but it would be brilliant if it happened. I just hope it gets updated according to phone market timescales, not Apple update timescales (iPod mini is a 12 month old product now, with no changes or updates apart from software). Oh, and I hope that its an Apple design with Moto phone tech, not a Moto phone with an Apple logo, but I think everyone here would want it that way .
We know Apple has cell phone prototype concepts in their vaults as part of their PDA strategizing.
This has nothing to do with Jobs' statement that "he was proud not to have done a PDA" and everything to do with the fact that the Newton was confirmed to have been worked in smaller prototype designs before it was steved.
As the first Apple iTunes Mobile licensee, the Moto phone had better rock.
It's in Apple's long term interest for the phone to deliver top-notch Mac sync capabilities and quality industrial design. This phone needs to deliver a six-month customer waiting list, if other phone licensees are going to eschew WMA and embrace iTunes.
I really can't see Apple hyping so crucial a product, at a Steve Jobs keynote no less, and having no input on design. It's not how Jobs operates.
Additionally, if Motorola had access to Apple's world-class base of industrial designers and didn't take advantage of the opportunity, the whole company should be relocated to Afghanistan for their stupidity.
Moto actually has a very cool 3G phone that I saw my friend has. The 990 or something lik ethat. Kinda like a P910. Stylus, browsing via UMTS/GRPS, etc.
It WOULD be nice if Moto and Apple pulled together and Apple finally used their Newton technologies to make a very kickass solution.
But, Im just expecting a Razr type phone that has an extra sync app.
will this be an add on for current phones via firmware update and dongle? it seems like the install base is there if the providers just push the firmware updates to things like the razor and v710
dear god, please let them make the v710 itunes compatible...i love that phone...and need a new phone in the next week or so...and am switching to VZW.
I would love it if apple could design the entire interface on the phone...wait...a 1 button phone would be a disaster...
Music downloads via cell phones is a logical step anyways.
(of course via iTMS)
It aint new bub...Sprint has Vision, part of which is music ringtones, vzw has get it now, cingular has the same type of stuff too, this is just an outside branding is it not? like the blockbuster video ppv channels on directv
if yr current fone has wap and external storage, then it is possible they could make yr fone backwards compatible with whatever comes out. but they wont.
they want to sell you a new fone. also, why and how anyone in the usa will be able to afford the downloads will be interesting (i mean direct purchase over yr fone from the iTunes music store). no 3g to speak off except in some cool test cities. therefore, the sync software. but does yf fone have external memory like SD? if not, then no, not backwards compatible.
Comments
http://homepage.mac.com/rcpm/iMovieTheater6.html
Jobs isn't the kind of person to leave design decisions to another company if there's an Apple logo on the product.
This is, after all, the same guy who's picked out colours for the interface elements in some of the company's software.
And he's also admitted that Apple designed but never released a PDA.
While the first phone in this alliance will likely center around iTunes capabilities and have no QWERTY pad, could the next version see Apple in the Smartphone business taking on the Treo 650?
Could this be why Palm is preparing to torpedo Mac support in its future products?
Originally posted by Frank777
And he's also admitted that Apple designed but never released a PDA.
Once and for all, he did not say that, and curse Kasper for propagating that persistent myth.
MOSSBERG: Does that mean that you?d be interested at least in looking at some of these other products over time?
JOBS: We look at a lot of things but I?m as proud of the products that we have not done as I am of the ones we have done.
MOSSBERG: What's your favorite thing you?ve not done?
JOBS: A PDA. We got enormous pressure to do a PDA and we looked at it and we said, ?Wait a minute, 90% of the people that use these things just want to get information out of them, they don?t necessarily want to put information into them on a regular basis and cellphones are going to do that.? So getting into the PDA market means getting into the cellphone market. And you know, we?re not so good at selling to the enterprise where you've got, in the Fortune 500, five hundred orifices called CIOs. In the cellphone market you?ve got five. And so we figured we're not going to be very good at that.
Originally posted by ZO
i think a first gen AppMot? phone will suck for power users like us. We will hate it, bitch at it, ask why its missing a ton of standard things we're used to.... but it will be a hit with joe-user (just like the iPod has been).... and then, in late 2005 or early 2006, a 2nd gen AppMot? GSM will come out with 2 or 3 variants to make everyone happy, from basic user to power user.
I am SO looking to change my Nokia 6600 with something new and if there is an AppMot? phone that is good enough, I'll take the bait despite already knowing it'll suck in the first gen.
ZO
The first gen, second gen and third and fourth gen iPods do not suck. Motorola phones have a habit of lacking features that sony put on theirs. We'll have to wait and see though
Originally posted by johnq
Once and for all, he did not say that, and curse Kasper for propagating that persistent myth.
Thank you john. I've been battling the 'finished but unreleased PDA' myth for a while too.
Back on topic:
It's interesting that Apple is getting involved in the feature-list mongering gadget game. Normally, their products differ significantly from these, focusing more on key features than on having the longest list. Thus... I wonder what kind of influence apple will have on these phones.
Seems like everyone thinks that Apple is getting in on the hardware side of things but I just don't buy it.
Originally posted by Nine-Seventy
Can someone point out to me where it says Apple are doing more than just co-developing an iTunes mobile application for Motorola phones?
Seems like everyone thinks that Apple is getting in on the hardware side of things but I just don't buy it.
That is what everyone is speculating about... just what involvement does apple have?
Originally posted by Nine-Seventy
Can someone point out to me where it says Apple are doing more than just co-developing an iTunes mobile application for Motorola phones?
Seems like everyone thinks that Apple is getting in on the hardware side of things but I just don't buy it.
Precisely.
How we get from Apple making a version of iTunes called "iTunes Mobile Music" for Motorola phones, to "Apple and Motorola could soon introduce the mobile phone the two companies are developing to play music" is beyond me.
Based on all the public announcements I've seen, it is not specific hardware, but merely software. Eddy Cue, oft quoted, is vice president in charge of applications at Apple, not hardware. His generalities morph magically into specifics at the hands of the Forbes reporter.
In true Apple style, Cue declined to say whether Jobs will indeed address the phone at that event. ?What we?ve talked about is a something that is valuable for the mass market,? Cue says. ?It has to be a phone in the middle-tier of the market, not a $500-tier phone. It has to be very seamless to use. And we?re very happy with the results.? ? FORBES
Cue is speaking in general. In general, if Apple wanted iTunes on a cell phone, "it has to be a phone in the middle-tier of the market, not a $500-tier phone. It has to be very seamless to use. And we're very happy with the results.".
Cue is jumping from 1. talking about the price range of phones (of any maker's phones, initially) that "iTunes Mobile Music" would need to work on, then 2. how the iTunes-on-a-cell-phone experience would need to be to meet Apple's standards, then to 3. how well the "iTunes Mobile Music" application is working on the Motorola phone or phones it is initially being developed for.
Yet all this is mangled by the reporter into meaning "the phone".
That Motorola might also be making more multimedia savvy phones at the same time is not a surprise and would be happening regardless of the Apple partnership. But this does not mean they are making an iPhone.
Don't expect Jonathan Ive to be unveiling a beautiful new iPhone anytime soon kiddies.
Yes, there will likely also be a nice new Motorola phone or series, hyped to the max, that will be the first to be able to run the "iTunes Mobile Music" application, but the goal is getting the software on the middle-tier Motorola phones, not merely to introduce a single Apple-designed and styled iPhone thingy.
Do I want and hope there will be an iPhone? Sure. I just don't see it based on the public statements.
Its gonna basically be a normal moto phone that has an extra app that syncs with iTunes on Mac and PC.
lets hope the 2nd gen will bring forth an Apple Industrial Design with whole new interface, ease of use, etc.
I'm especially waiting for perfect syncing. I have SO many issues with keeping the address book on my .Mac, 2 macs, and Nokia 6600 coordinated. I always get duplicates, old numbers get reinserted, etc. I SO hate it and there doesnt seem to be any solution.
utilitarian usa mecha, with no vision.
razr is nice, but not really there yet either.
thnx to messiahtosh and the actual video of the event, we see clearly that it is an iTunes app and song download app maybe even involving flash or brew even. no other apple involvement. they didnt even let him appear in person, for god sake, and doesnt it appear as if those two moto sharpie guys are humoring steve in some sort of way? that video is amazing. i am surprised it has been allowed to be put out as promotional in any way. moto and mac. very uninteresting combination.
vodafone is already doing the music download thing in its 3g markets already with some non iTunes libraries.
i love convergence. voice/data/camera/and music. but moto doesnt lead.
only thing midly interesting will be to see what external storage device format is used: moto will not use the new 1 gig Sony Duo Pro format, so maybe they will stick with a 512 MB SD, which would sync about 100 songs.
nothing interesting here, move on.
except for 1 more channel for iTunes to be sold, which is great for apple.
I don't want to be seen as a bummer but don't expect top notch design at all. Moto cell phones, anyone?
Music downloads via cell phones is a logical step anyways.
(of course via iTMS
But i can be completely wrong
1. 'iPod flash' is a standalone iPod with flash memory.
2. 'Moto iPhone' is an iTunes application installed on Moto phones.
3. 'iPod flash' and 'Moto iPhone' are the same thing, is an iPod with flash memory and phone internals, using an iPod interface/screen.
iPod flash as a standalone music player would be playing safe, bringing the iPod name lower down to the mass market flash players. There is a market for a sub mini iPod, how many times have you heard or read 'I'd love an iPod, but they're too expensive'? The iPod mini went some of the way, an iPod flash would go further.
If it was phone software, why limit it to Motorola phones? I don't know figures for market share, but I'd guess that the majority of the phone market was held by Nokia and SonyEricsson, and that as far as units sold go, Moto are a comparatively minor player. Unless they license it later on to other phone makers...
A true iPod/phone crossover would be the outside bet, but it would be brilliant if it happened. I just hope it gets updated according to phone market timescales, not Apple update timescales (iPod mini is a 12 month old product now, with no changes or updates apart from software). Oh, and I hope that its an Apple design with Moto phone tech, not a Moto phone with an Apple logo, but I think everyone here would want it that way
Originally posted by ZO
...
Its gonna basically be a normal moto phone that has an extra app that syncs with iTunes on Mac and PC.
...
to be any solution.
Thank you fellow ZO. Actually...
This has nothing to do with Jobs' statement that "he was proud not to have done a PDA" and everything to do with the fact that the Newton was confirmed to have been worked in smaller prototype designs before it was steved.
As the first Apple iTunes Mobile licensee, the Moto phone had better rock.
It's in Apple's long term interest for the phone to deliver top-notch Mac sync capabilities and quality industrial design. This phone needs to deliver a six-month customer waiting list, if other phone licensees are going to eschew WMA and embrace iTunes.
I really can't see Apple hyping so crucial a product, at a Steve Jobs keynote no less, and having no input on design. It's not how Jobs operates.
Additionally, if Motorola had access to Apple's world-class base of industrial designers and didn't take advantage of the opportunity, the whole company should be relocated to Afghanistan for their stupidity.
It WOULD be nice if Moto and Apple pulled together and Apple finally used their Newton technologies to make a very kickass solution.
But, Im just expecting a Razr type phone that has an extra sync app.
Lame
dear god, please let them make the v710 itunes compatible...i love that phone...and need a new phone in the next week or so...and am switching to VZW.
I would love it if apple could design the entire interface on the phone...wait...a 1 button phone would be a disaster...
Originally posted by Vox Barbara
Music downloads via cell phones is a logical step anyways.
(of course via iTMS
It aint new bub...Sprint has Vision, part of which is music ringtones, vzw has get it now, cingular has the same type of stuff too, this is just an outside branding is it not? like the blockbuster video ppv channels on directv
they want to sell you a new fone. also, why and how anyone in the usa will be able to afford the downloads will be interesting (i mean direct purchase over yr fone from the iTunes music store). no 3g to speak off except in some cool test cities. therefore, the sync software. but does yf fone have external memory like SD? if not, then no, not backwards compatible.
Originally posted by a_greer
I would love it if apple could design the entire interface on the phone...wait...a 1 button phone would be a disaster...
so would a one-button iPod, keyboard, etc!