The need for speed and the threshold of HD

nordstrodamusnordstrodamus
Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
For a long time we have been in a state where more speed would be nice, but the lack of it has not prevented us from doing things we need to do on our macs.



But, given the requirements for HD playback and reasonable H2.90210 encoding I think we may finally be at a threshold where more speed is a must and I'm frankly hesitant to buy a new mac until I know it can meet the challenge.



I was in the apple store, playing the fantastic 4 HD trailer on a powermac and it appeared to skip a lot. If a powermac can't handle it I would think an iMac couldn't.



Did I just try an overtaxed machine, or do we need more power before it can really become the year of HD?
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 49
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,438member
    More power



    and since this is a "future hardware" topic I've decided on what hardware I'd like to see soon to play my HD.



    Quad 3.4Ghz (Powermac Express)

    2GB RAM

    1 Terabyte hard drive

    2 Giga ports(Gigawire?)

    iHome port

    iTablet syncronicity

    10.4.3 with Rez Independence

    UWB Wireless





    There's no way around the stiff requirements for AVC. It generates its small size/quality via some serious number crunching. It's time for PMX to be delivered.
  • Reply 2 of 49
    krispiekrispie Posts: 260member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    to play my HD...There's no way around the stiff requirements for AVC.



    So, the new generation of BD/HD-DVD players are going to cost a few thousand quid?
  • Reply 3 of 49
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,438member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by krispie

    So, the new generation of BD/HD-DVD players are going to cost a few thousand quid?



    HD-DVD players are supposed to cost $1k



    Blu-Ray...well that depends on what Sony charges for the PS3
  • Reply 4 of 49
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    i'll have to be the wet blanket here and say that a $200 dedicated HD-decoder, or maybe $300 dedicated HD-decoder/encoder



    will give you full 1920x1080p on a single 2ghz iMac g5



    edit: as in this is a card/chip well-integrated into the Mac or GPU



    throwing all that ram and cpu at something as "defined" as AVC which can be done in dedicated DSP hardware of some sort (CELL, for example, as some has suggested) is a total waste of processing power designed for a much wider and versatile range of tasks.



    but yes this does put some questions on current Macs playing HD though.



    i thought an iMac g5 2.0ghz 512mb ram should be able to handle 1280x720p fine? i mean, this should give you 3 good years, because

    where the hell would you get 1080p content anyway? not yet right? just 1080i



    well, but you have legitimate concerns, certainly...
  • Reply 5 of 49
    pbpb Posts: 4,255member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sunilraman

    i'll have to be the wet blanket here and say that a $200 dedicated HD-decoder, or maybe $300 dedicated HD-decoder/encoder





    It is called PPE or SPE. And the software support is already there. Well, sort of (see Core IVA).



    Quote:

    will give you full 1920x1080p on a single 2ghz iMac g5



    I am very curious to see what Apple will do in the consumer machines to keep them HD video capable.
  • Reply 6 of 49
    nordstrodamusnordstrodamus Posts: 829member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sunilraman

    i'll have to be the wet blanket here and say that a $200 dedicated HD-decoder, or maybe $300 dedicated HD-decoder/encoder



    That's definately a way to go and I actually hope they go a route that integrates not only a decoder/encoder, but a tuner as well. The iMac just screems "use me as a glorious HDTV when your not computing!"



    Quote:

    i thought an iMac g5 2.0ghz 512mb ram should be able to handle 1280x720p fine? i mean, this should give you 3 good years, because

    where the hell would you get 1080p content anyway? not yet right? just 1080i



    I'm not sure if the trailer was just a little jerky itself, so that's why I was asking, but I think 1080p will be here pretty soon. If I'm not mistaken Blu-RAY is supposed to be 1080p. I know it's capable of 1080p and if the content holders try to milk more money out of me by only offering 1080i at first I will just stick with my DVDs until the give in.
  • Reply 7 of 49
    aplnubaplnub Posts: 2,605member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Nordstrodamus

    For a long time we have been in a state where more speed would be nice, but the lack of it has not prevented us from doing things we need to do on our macs.



    But, given the requirements for HD playback and reasonable H2.90210 encoding I think we may finally be at a threshold where more speed is a must and I'm frankly hesitant to buy a new mac until I know it can meet the challenge.



    I was in the apple store, playing the fantastic 4 HD trailer on a powermac and it appeared to skip a lot. If a powermac can't handle it I would think an iMac couldn't.



    Did I just try an overtaxed machine, or do we need more power before it can really become the year of HD?



    My iBook 1.2 Ghz 1.25 gig ram seems to run that trailer fine. I may have noticed 2 quick skips but it was hard to tell because I think that trailer is a bit jerky itself.



    When I get my iMac back up from my hdd swap (I installed a 300 GB today), I will let you know what it does.
  • Reply 8 of 49
    pistoleropistolero Posts: 14member
    Quote:

    My iBook 1.2 Ghz 1.25 gig ram seems to run that trailer fine. I may have noticed 2 quick skips but it was hard to tell because I think that trailer is a bit jerky itself.



    The trailer is not jerky at all if you play it in dual g5. I tried it in several macs and it only plays well in a dual 1.8.





    Edited to add: the 1080p trailer.
  • Reply 9 of 49
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Nordstrodamus

    .....I'm not sure if the trailer was just a little jerky itself, so that's why I was asking, but I think 1080p will be here pretty soon. If I'm not mistaken Blu-RAY is supposed to be 1080p. I know it's capable of 1080p and if the content holders try to milk more money out of me by only offering 1080i at first I will just stick with my DVDs until the give in.



    yup my bad, apple quicktime hd gallery already has batman begins and serenity released as 1080 24p, so 1080p is really upon us...



    PS3 is supposed to handle 1080p games too...



    i'm with you, i'm not touching Blu-Ray or HD-DVD till they give me 1080p



    720p is all cool, but not worth amassing a whole new collection of DVDs.



    we're close
  • Reply 10 of 49
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by pistolero

    The trailer is not jerky at all if you play it in dual g5. I tried it in several macs and it only plays well in a dual 1.8.



    are you talking about 720p or the 1080p trailers?
  • Reply 11 of 49
    aplnubaplnub Posts: 2,605member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by pistolero

    The trailer is not jerky at all if you play it in dual g5. I tried it in several macs and it only plays well in a dual 1.8.



    I just viewed the HD trailer on the quicktime HD gallery at Apple's website on my G5 1.8 Ghz iMac. It seemed to have one or two spots that jerked for sure, but the rest of the clip seems fine. Too much action for my eye's to tell if it is jerking.
  • Reply 12 of 49
    nordstrodamusnordstrodamus Posts: 829member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sunilraman

    are you talking about 720p or the 1080p trailers?



    It was the fantastic 4 one which is listed at 1280x532.
  • Reply 13 of 49
    xmogerxmoger Posts: 242member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sunilraman

    i'll have to be the wet blanket here and say that a $200 dedicated HD-decoder, or maybe $300 dedicated HD-decoder/encoder





    Nvidia claimed their 6800 cards would support hardware decode of WMV9 (or VC1?), but haven't produced the goods yet. It would be nice to have support for some other codecs.
  • Reply 14 of 49
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    hmm the fantastic four trailers are actually not full-res HDTV 720p, in that its 1280 x <720 (because of 2.35:1 aspect ratio)



    yup looks like a dual G5 at the moment is what's needed for 1280x720p (eg that NASA clip) and 1920x1080p \



    well once HD content is actually common, nVidia, apple, ati, or some third party will jump on some cheap and simple decoding solution that doesn't involve buying a dual-g5 powermac



    which does kinda bug me because 720p windows media WMV High Def plays back okay on a 'consumer-ish' level computer
  • Reply 15 of 49
    pbpb Posts: 4,255member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sunilraman



    which does kinda bug me because 720p windows media WMV High Def plays back okay on a 'consumer-ish' level computer



    I hear that this one is less demanding in processing power compared to H.264. So, no surprise here.
  • Reply 16 of 49
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by PB

    I hear that this one is less demanding in processing power compared to H.264. So, no surprise here.



    you know, the thing is the aesthetic quality of h.264. really fits into that most advanced creative company/ most advanced technology company or whatever that quote is for both Pixar and Apple...



    h.264 is an amazing codec, aesthetically and bitrate wise... unsurprisingly they've been somewhat uncompromising hardware required to run it.



    apple is a premium brand, now and for the forseeable future but that's the issue for a whole 'nother thread.



    the funny thing with Trailers though is that the jerkiness is not always so bad because the viewer won't know if that's part of the effect of the trailer or what, and trailers are so hyper-fast-edited its all a blur anyway. with high def, maybe i'm getting old (and i'm only 26 !!) but there's like almost too much visual information to take in -- i saw Robots on iMax and it was like almost too visually overwhelming
  • Reply 17 of 49
    gregmightdothatgregmightdothat Posts: 1,709member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sunilraman



    well once HD content is actually common, nVidia, apple, ati, or some third party will jump on some cheap and simple decoding solution that doesn't involve buying a dual-g5 powermac



    you mean once a dual g5 powermac is really cheap?
  • Reply 18 of 49
    cubistcubist Posts: 954member
    Could a specialized decoder be added as a firewire dongle? If so, that might be a solution for older (i.e. current) iMacs. I doubt Apple would sell it, and there are probably DRM issues
  • Reply 19 of 49
    nordstrodamusnordstrodamus Posts: 829member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cubist

    Could a specialized decoder be added as a firewire dongle? If so, that might be a solution for older (i.e. current) iMacs. I doubt Apple would sell it, and there are probably DRM issues



    I don't believe so, because the job of the decoder is to turn a small little signal stream into a big, fat, ready to display image. So the output couldn't fit back through the firewire into the machine.
  • Reply 20 of 49
    ompusompus Posts: 163member
    Excuse my ignorance... don't you need a monitor capable of displaying a minimum of 1920 x 1080 pixels if you're going to watch 1080i/1080p video?



    Put differently, what good is 1080i/1080p video on an 20" iMac G5? (Just shy at 1680 x 1050).
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