Well, you know it is entirely possible that one day, a year or two ago, Jobs and Gates per chance passed by eachother at a Washington Super WalMart one afternoon and started some friendly chit-chat over a box of Lucky Charms and Gates said," F-IT! Why bicker over whose is bigger anymore? Why don't we just combine forces and license everything to eachother and confuse the hell out of the whole frickin' world!"
Then Jobs said,"You know what, Apple just doesn't seem viable to me anymore, in the configuration that I currently have it as and I don't want to be different anymore (Bill at this moment cuddles Jobs and they weep on each others shoulders) so you know what? I'm going to switch everything over to Intel and we'll work hand in hand now, Bill!"
Not always. You are forgetting the endiannes issue. On-disk binary file loading code will be broken on the x86 for example.
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
But a recompile will result in some very bloated code. Code that will run slowly, because platform crossed re-compiles are inefficient. Even with a compatibility layer.
I don't see a need for a compatibility layer. In the context of a chip change such a layer could only be an emulator - which is crazy.
Also: neither recompiling nor cross-compiling generate bloated code.
While I think the technical discussions are interesting I am much more interested in the strategic side to the potential switch. Frankly, I still can't find good reasons for Apple to switch to Intel. IBM having problems with supply are not enough to cause a change over to x86. PPC is a differentiator for Apple. My bet is that Apple is getting Intel to fab the PPC.
BTW, Scoble has said that he "heard it from several different executive-level sources inside Apple." Intrepet that anyway you like.
I agree with UnixPoet - either this news is a BIG smoke screen or Apple is going to get Intel to fab the PPC.
If Apple were to announce a switch to X86, imagine what this would do to their stock prices. I, for one, am in the market for a new powerbook. If I hear tomorrow that powerbook/2006 is going to be x86 based, I would either go with a low end powerbook to "tide me over" or wait altogether.
On the other hand, if Apple were to announce x86, imagine a 20x increase in market potential. They would have to be ready to ship right away - not wait for a year though.
I am still holding out for a PBG5 myself... Tomorrow we will all know...
Not always. You are forgetting the endiannes issue. On-disk binary file loading code will be broken on the x86 for example.
I don't see a need for a compatibility layer. In the context of a chip change such a layer could only be an emulator - which is crazy.
Also: neither recompiling nor cross-compiling generate bloated code.
While I think the technical discussions are interesting I am much more interested in the strategic side to the potential switch. Frankly, I still can't find good reasons for Apple to switch to Intel. IBM having problems with supply are not enough to cause a change over to x86. PPC is a differentiator for Apple. My bet is that Apple is getting Intel to fab the PPC.
BTW, Scoble has said that he "heard it from several different executive-level sources inside Apple." Intrepet that anyway you like.
The endian issue can be resolved on a recompile, this is done all the time. It's work, that's true.
OS X has a compatibility layer. This is what isolates the high level code of the programs from the hardware underneath. If a developer follows instructions (even Apple doesn't always do that!) then they only write to the OS. In the old days it was common to write directly to the hardware. When that changed, the software wouldn't work. That's what's behind the idea of software portability.
Mind you, it would still be a bear. I'm not for the idea. But it could be done.
Sure it generates bloated code, slow code. The best example that we Mac users have is the old Office 6. A double whammy. Ported from Windows as well as the x86. The new versions are generated with Xcode.
Well, I haven't programmed in years. Fortran IV no less.
So, how would developers do this? Would they port their Windows x86 versions? Or their OS X PPC versions? Assuming that there are both, of course.
This is just a stupid stream of conscious thought but ThinkSecret has stated "Think Secret sources have heard nothing to date regarding any collaboration between Apple and Intel."
Wouldn't they, of all the rumor blogs, be the ones to have heard something, anything? I mean they were sued by Apple for always releasing the good juice because they have the really good inside sources.
This is one of the reasons I don't believe the rumor.
This is just a stupid stream of conscious thought but ThinkSecret has stated "Think Secret sources have heard nothing to date regarding any collaboration between Apple and Intel."
Wouldn't they, of all the rumor blogs, be the ones to have heard something, anything? I mean they were sued by Apple for always releasing the good juice because they have the really good inside sources.
This is one of the reasons I don't believe the rumor.
I'm with you.
It's hard to think that nothing would have leaked out before.
Unless no work on this was done at all yet, and only those at the very top at both Apple and Intel know.
It just doesn't make sense that some random Wintel blogger/reporter got the scoop before ANY of the major Apple blogs. This is akin to a reporter from MacNN, Apple Insider, or Think Secret dropping a bombshell about Longhorn before any major Wintel blog for no reason whatsoever even though the Wintel bloggers would have all the deep throat contacts in the M$ hierarchy & the Apple blogs don't.
It just doesn't make sense that some random Wintel blogger/reporter got the scoop before ANY of the major Apple blogs. This is akin to a reporter from MacNN, Apple Insider, or Think Secret dropping a bombshell about Longhorn before any major Wintel blog for no reason whatsoever even though the Wintel bloggers would have all the deep throat contacts in the M$ hierarchy & the Apple blogs don't.
I don't think so either, even though I've read about as many good reasons for doing it as bad ones.
thats the problem i have with this. nothing, and then boom. but since it came from cnet (not known for being pro mac) who knows?
has anyone from apple denied this rumor yet? didn't steve deny a rumor last time? i remember when itunes came out and they said apple was buying a record company and they denied that.
I suspect that Intel will take over the PPC fab'ing if this pans out and I am betting this is a rumor gone wrong. Intel doesn't need another chip to manufacture. There does come a time in the business world that if you produce a high percentage of product X, you decide you want to produce the left over amount too. Call it greed, dominance or just plain childish but it always happens.
A switch to Intel doing the Fab isn't a bad idea and I am sure they are eager to explore the power processing world (Apple Servers on Intel chips means more exposure for Apple and Intel).
This is just a stupid stream of conscious thought but ThinkSecret has stated "Think Secret sources have heard nothing to date regarding any collaboration between Apple and Intel."
Wouldn't they, of all the rumor blogs, be the ones to have heard something, anything? I mean they were sued by Apple for always releasing the good juice because they have the really good inside sources.
This is one of the reasons I don't believe the rumor.
Maybe no insiders are contacting them because they know they are being closely watched by Apple. Better to go through a rumor/news site that isn't under the magnifying glass. Anyone think that maybe Apple leaked the news in order to gauge reaction? I see a 'premature speculation' comment from Steve tomorrow.
Maybe no insiders are contacting them because they know they are being closely watched by Apple. Better to go through a rumor/news site that isn't under the magnifying glass. Anyone think that maybe Apple leaked the news in order to gauge reaction? I see a 'premature speculation' comment from Steve tomorrow.
I don't think that Apple would know who they are going to. An e-mail from a third party's anonomus e-mail account would work well. Just put something in that the site would recognize as being you.
It's hard to think that nothing would have leaked out before.
Unless no work on this was done at all yet, and only those at the very top at both Apple and Intel know.
But is has leaked before - Marklar, Thurrot's comments, now the more formal part of it.
That Apple kept their end of it quiet is not surprising at all - think how long they had samples of G5s before it really started to leak?
For it to leak now is not surprising based on assumption that Apple has likely been working with Intel chips for quite some time - they don't need an agreement with Intel for that.
It leaks now because Jobs had to go to Intel to negotiate supply of chips - no doubt he was also calling on AMD, but it looks like Intel won.
That negotiation probably only started a few of months ago, same as any customer does with a new supplier.
Now that Apple has a contract with Intel (I assume) more people around Intel know and it begins to leak - first via gossip to people like Thurot at a conference (from experience, it's amazing what people will say at a conference, especially over lunch or drinks). Now we see more formal leaking of the information via senior level contacts journalists have.
Looks like the normal progress of a story of this magnitude.
Maybe no insiders are contacting them because they know they are being closely watched by Apple. Better to go through a rumor/news site that isn't under the magnifying glass. Anyone think that maybe Apple leaked the news in order to gauge reaction? I see a 'premature speculation' comment from Steve tomorrow.
I very much doubt Steve would leak a falsehood like this, or even deliberate leaks of factual information - it's a lawsuit for stock price manipulation waiting to happen.
Maybe no insiders are contacting them because they know they are being closely watched by Apple. Better to go through a rumor/news site that isn't under the magnifying glass. Anyone think that maybe Apple leaked the news in order to gauge reaction? I see a 'premature speculation' comment from Steve tomorrow.
An announcement like this is frickin huge and sources within Apple can be watched while they are at work.....I seriously doubt Apple has an Internal Affairs Agency that tracks and monitors (not too mention disregards the constitiutional rights of) all it's employees or even just a few OUTSIDE of the Infinity Loop. Hell a bombshell like this would even be worth some compensation if I were an insider ready to drop it. There would be nothing stopping me from going down too Chinatown and finding a payphone to call an anonymous 800 number and this news is that big to go to that kind of trouble.
The upside to all this chipmongering would be to catch-up Apple in the mobility market in very short order. We could have greatly improved Powerbooks and a refreshed iBook almost immediately, product-differentiated by dual- or single-core chipsets. When a true Power alternative is ready for the Powerbook, it gets dropped in without upsetting the developers and the consumer base.
Apple serves notice to IBM that it is very, very serious about chip supply. The next step would be a painful transition to x86, which I still doubt, or a jointly developed high-end Power chip with Intel. I'm not sure Power licensing would allow the latter alternative, though.
Now this strikes me as sensible. Very sensible. Perhaps too sensible for Jobs, but I like it.
But is has leaked before - Marklar, Thurrot's comments, now the more formal part of it.
That Apple kept their end of it quiet is not surprising at all - think how long they had samples of G5s before it really started to leak?
For it to leak now is not surprising based on assumption that Apple has likely been working with Intel chips for quite some time - they don't need an agreement with Intel for that.
It leaks now because Jobs had to go to Intel to negotiate supply of chips - no doubt he was also calling on AMD, but it looks like Intel won.
That negotiation probably only started a few of months ago, same as any customer does with a new supplier.
Now that Apple has a contract with Intel (I assume) more people around Intel know and it begins to leak - first via gossip to people like Thurot at a conference (from experience, it's amazing what people will say at a conference, especially over lunch or drinks). Now we see more formal leaking of the information via senior level contacts journalists have.
Looks like the normal progress of a story of this magnitude.
You're assuming it's true. We don't know that yet.
Comments
Originally posted by brent1a
Well, you know it is entirely possible that one day, a year or two ago, Jobs and Gates per chance passed by eachother at a Washington Super WalMart one afternoon and started some friendly chit-chat over a box of Lucky Charms and Gates said," F-IT! Why bicker over whose is bigger anymore? Why don't we just combine forces and license everything to eachother and confuse the hell out of the whole frickin' world!"
Then Jobs said,"You know what, Apple just doesn't seem viable to me anymore, in the configuration that I currently have it as and I don't want to be different anymore (Bill at this moment cuddles Jobs and they weep on each others shoulders) so you know what? I'm going to switch everything over to Intel and we'll work hand in hand now, Bill!"
I guess we'll see tomorrow won't we?
You should have stopped at three posts.
iBox
iTablet
iWindows
The new tagline for Tigertel will be, "Think the same."
I should've stopped at 3 but I haven't
Steve Jobs sends a courier Pidgeon to Bill Gate's estate.
Bill opens the message scroll and it reads
Remember the Titanic!
Originally posted by melgross
Yes, a recompile will work.
Not always. You are forgetting the endiannes issue. On-disk binary file loading code will be broken on the x86 for example.
Originally posted by melgross
But a recompile will result in some very bloated code. Code that will run slowly, because platform crossed re-compiles are inefficient. Even with a compatibility layer.
I don't see a need for a compatibility layer. In the context of a chip change such a layer could only be an emulator - which is crazy.
Also: neither recompiling nor cross-compiling generate bloated code.
While I think the technical discussions are interesting I am much more interested in the strategic side to the potential switch. Frankly, I still can't find good reasons for Apple to switch to Intel. IBM having problems with supply are not enough to cause a change over to x86. PPC is a differentiator for Apple. My bet is that Apple is getting Intel to fab the PPC.
BTW, Scoble has said that he "heard it from several different executive-level sources inside Apple." Intrepet that anyway you like.
If Apple were to announce a switch to X86, imagine what this would do to their stock prices. I, for one, am in the market for a new powerbook. If I hear tomorrow that powerbook/2006 is going to be x86 based, I would either go with a low end powerbook to "tide me over" or wait altogether.
On the other hand, if Apple were to announce x86, imagine a 20x increase in market potential. They would have to be ready to ship right away - not wait for a year though.
I am still holding out for a PBG5 myself... Tomorrow we will all know...
Originally posted by UnixPoet
Not always. You are forgetting the endiannes issue. On-disk binary file loading code will be broken on the x86 for example.
I don't see a need for a compatibility layer. In the context of a chip change such a layer could only be an emulator - which is crazy.
Also: neither recompiling nor cross-compiling generate bloated code.
While I think the technical discussions are interesting I am much more interested in the strategic side to the potential switch. Frankly, I still can't find good reasons for Apple to switch to Intel. IBM having problems with supply are not enough to cause a change over to x86. PPC is a differentiator for Apple. My bet is that Apple is getting Intel to fab the PPC.
BTW, Scoble has said that he "heard it from several different executive-level sources inside Apple." Intrepet that anyway you like.
The endian issue can be resolved on a recompile, this is done all the time. It's work, that's true.
OS X has a compatibility layer. This is what isolates the high level code of the programs from the hardware underneath. If a developer follows instructions (even Apple doesn't always do that!) then they only write to the OS. In the old days it was common to write directly to the hardware. When that changed, the software wouldn't work. That's what's behind the idea of software portability.
Mind you, it would still be a bear. I'm not for the idea. But it could be done.
Sure it generates bloated code, slow code. The best example that we Mac users have is the old Office 6. A double whammy. Ported from Windows as well as the x86. The new versions are generated with Xcode.
Well, I haven't programmed in years. Fortran IV no less.
So, how would developers do this? Would they port their Windows x86 versions? Or their OS X PPC versions? Assuming that there are both, of course.
Wouldn't they, of all the rumor blogs, be the ones to have heard something, anything? I mean they were sued by Apple for always releasing the good juice because they have the really good inside sources.
This is one of the reasons I don't believe the rumor.
Originally posted by brent1a
This is just a stupid stream of conscious thought but ThinkSecret has stated "Think Secret sources have heard nothing to date regarding any collaboration between Apple and Intel."
Wouldn't they, of all the rumor blogs, be the ones to have heard something, anything? I mean they were sued by Apple for always releasing the good juice because they have the really good inside sources.
This is one of the reasons I don't believe the rumor.
I'm with you.
It's hard to think that nothing would have leaked out before.
Unless no work on this was done at all yet, and only those at the very top at both Apple and Intel know.
Originally posted by brent1a
It just doesn't make sense that some random Wintel blogger/reporter got the scoop before ANY of the major Apple blogs. This is akin to a reporter from MacNN, Apple Insider, or Think Secret dropping a bombshell about Longhorn before any major Wintel blog for no reason whatsoever even though the Wintel bloggers would have all the deep throat contacts in the M$ hierarchy & the Apple blogs don't.
I don't think so either, even though I've read about as many good reasons for doing it as bad ones.
But you know, Jobs is Jobs.
has anyone from apple denied this rumor yet? didn't steve deny a rumor last time? i remember when itunes came out and they said apple was buying a record company and they denied that.
A switch to Intel doing the Fab isn't a bad idea and I am sure they are eager to explore the power processing world (Apple Servers on Intel chips means more exposure for Apple and Intel).
I just want FCP 6 and 7 to work on my iMac G5.
Originally posted by brent1a
This is just a stupid stream of conscious thought but ThinkSecret has stated "Think Secret sources have heard nothing to date regarding any collaboration between Apple and Intel."
Wouldn't they, of all the rumor blogs, be the ones to have heard something, anything? I mean they were sued by Apple for always releasing the good juice because they have the really good inside sources.
This is one of the reasons I don't believe the rumor.
Maybe no insiders are contacting them because they know they are being closely watched by Apple. Better to go through a rumor/news site that isn't under the magnifying glass. Anyone think that maybe Apple leaked the news in order to gauge reaction? I see a 'premature speculation' comment from Steve tomorrow.
Originally posted by 1984
Maybe no insiders are contacting them because they know they are being closely watched by Apple. Better to go through a rumor/news site that isn't under the magnifying glass. Anyone think that maybe Apple leaked the news in order to gauge reaction? I see a 'premature speculation' comment from Steve tomorrow.
I don't think that Apple would know who they are going to. An e-mail from a third party's anonomus e-mail account would work well. Just put something in that the site would recognize as being you.
Originally posted by melgross
I'm with you.
It's hard to think that nothing would have leaked out before.
Unless no work on this was done at all yet, and only those at the very top at both Apple and Intel know.
But is has leaked before - Marklar, Thurrot's comments, now the more formal part of it.
That Apple kept their end of it quiet is not surprising at all - think how long they had samples of G5s before it really started to leak?
For it to leak now is not surprising based on assumption that Apple has likely been working with Intel chips for quite some time - they don't need an agreement with Intel for that.
It leaks now because Jobs had to go to Intel to negotiate supply of chips - no doubt he was also calling on AMD, but it looks like Intel won.
That negotiation probably only started a few of months ago, same as any customer does with a new supplier.
Now that Apple has a contract with Intel (I assume) more people around Intel know and it begins to leak - first via gossip to people like Thurot at a conference (from experience, it's amazing what people will say at a conference, especially over lunch or drinks). Now we see more formal leaking of the information via senior level contacts journalists have.
Looks like the normal progress of a story of this magnitude.
Originally posted by 1984
Maybe no insiders are contacting them because they know they are being closely watched by Apple. Better to go through a rumor/news site that isn't under the magnifying glass. Anyone think that maybe Apple leaked the news in order to gauge reaction? I see a 'premature speculation' comment from Steve tomorrow.
I very much doubt Steve would leak a falsehood like this, or even deliberate leaks of factual information - it's a lawsuit for stock price manipulation waiting to happen.
Originally posted by 1984
Maybe no insiders are contacting them because they know they are being closely watched by Apple. Better to go through a rumor/news site that isn't under the magnifying glass. Anyone think that maybe Apple leaked the news in order to gauge reaction? I see a 'premature speculation' comment from Steve tomorrow.
An announcement like this is frickin huge and sources within Apple can be watched while they are at work.....I seriously doubt Apple has an Internal Affairs Agency that tracks and monitors (not too mention disregards the constitiutional rights of) all it's employees or even just a few OUTSIDE of the Infinity Loop. Hell a bombshell like this would even be worth some compensation if I were an insider ready to drop it. There would be nothing stopping me from going down too Chinatown and finding a payphone to call an anonymous 800 number and this news is that big to go to that kind of trouble.
originally posted by paperfrog:
The upside to all this chipmongering would be to catch-up Apple in the mobility market in very short order. We could have greatly improved Powerbooks and a refreshed iBook almost immediately, product-differentiated by dual- or single-core chipsets. When a true Power alternative is ready for the Powerbook, it gets dropped in without upsetting the developers and the consumer base.
Apple serves notice to IBM that it is very, very serious about chip supply. The next step would be a painful transition to x86, which I still doubt, or a jointly developed high-end Power chip with Intel. I'm not sure Power licensing would allow the latter alternative, though.
Now this strikes me as sensible. Very sensible. Perhaps too sensible for Jobs, but I like it.
Originally posted by kiwi-in-dc
But is has leaked before - Marklar, Thurrot's comments, now the more formal part of it.
That Apple kept their end of it quiet is not surprising at all - think how long they had samples of G5s before it really started to leak?
For it to leak now is not surprising based on assumption that Apple has likely been working with Intel chips for quite some time - they don't need an agreement with Intel for that.
It leaks now because Jobs had to go to Intel to negotiate supply of chips - no doubt he was also calling on AMD, but it looks like Intel won.
That negotiation probably only started a few of months ago, same as any customer does with a new supplier.
Now that Apple has a contract with Intel (I assume) more people around Intel know and it begins to leak - first via gossip to people like Thurot at a conference (from experience, it's amazing what people will say at a conference, especially over lunch or drinks). Now we see more formal leaking of the information via senior level contacts journalists have.
Looks like the normal progress of a story of this magnitude.
You're assuming it's true. We don't know that yet.