One can say that true, full 720p is good enough and I won't argue because it is damned beautiful, but I have yet to read anything about there being some top-end, magic number of pixels.
Also, chances are that I'll be building a home theater PC, which would expand my 1080p options greatly.
Right now, I'd spend maybe $500 or $600 for 1080p over 720p all other things being equal. That might change.
After a bit of research via google, it looks like the limit of human perception is 1/60th of a degree (so that would be 1000x1800 pixels - just right below 1080p - with a 30 degree image, and a person with 20/20 vision).
Our current TV is good for a 19" fishbowl, but even an nice EDTV would be an improvement. Perhaps the prudent thing is to not blow my wad right now and wait for the flat-panel 1080p market to mature. (As well as better tech for home theater PCs.)
I would make a decision but there's a Category 4 or 5 hurricane coming for me right now and it's hard to concentrate.
After a bit of research via google, it looks like the limit of human perception is 1/60th of a degree (so that would be 1000x1800 pixels - just right below 1080p - with a 30 degree image, and a person with 20/20 vision).
well, someone better call all apple to cancel the 30inch cinema display WTF are you on? "research on human perception via google"???
i may have not as good as 20/20 vision but sit me 5 feet from a 42" 16:9 screen and i can guarantee you i can tell the difference between a pure DVI input - no upscaler - 1920x1080 and 1280x720 mpeg2 or mpeg4 video. double-blind testing if you like. any video or web designer will definitely have this "pixel feel", along with audiovisual enthusiasts, gamers, etc, that far surpasses joe average's "limit" of human perception.
well, someone better call all apple to cancel the 30inch cinema display WTF are you on? "research on human perception via google"???
i may have not as good as 20/20 vision but sit me 5 feet from a 42" 16:9 screen and i can guarantee you i can tell the difference between a pure DVI input - no upscaler - 1920x1080 and 1280x720 mpeg2 or mpeg4 video. double-blind testing if you like. any video or web designer will definitely have this "pixel feel", along with audiovisual enthusiasts, gamers, etc, that far surpasses joe average's "limit" of human perception.
I think that you will find that a 30" cinema display occupies more than 30 degrees of vision. Notice that you have to rotate your head to see the whole thing.
5 feet from a 42" screen would be also more than 30 degrees.
Also, you misunderstood me. I also think that you would be able to tell the difference between 1920x1080 and 1280x720 at 5 feet. What you can't tell the difference between is 1800x1000 and 180000000000000x10000000000000 at 7 feet.
I've read a few reports saying that prices will come down a bit after the Superbowl and prices will really have dropped by Christmas 2006. Granted I don't know how solid places like news.com.com.com and other places are when predicting future large screen TV prices (don't forget that FED will make its debut next year as well) but we've all seen what happens to tech prices as the tech matures.
You may want to get a sub-$1K to hold you over until the prices on large screen TVs really plunge. Besides, no one's going to drop prices on big screen TVs during NFL season, that's just leaving money on the table.
Where's a good spot to get the modules for the professional edition displays? I like the idea of customizing, but I'd like to see some real figures on what my preferred TV would look to cost.
Where's a good spot to get the modules for the professional edition displays? I like the idea of customizing, but I'd like to see some real figures on what my preferred TV would look to cost.
To put that on a professional series, that would add ~$350 to the TV price plus I'd have to put it all in myself.
But, the professional series are cheaper and perhaps a little better.
If I went pro-plasma it would be the TH-37PHD8UK. Sure, 42" would work but I'm really concerned about noticing pixellation at only ~7' away at 720p. My friend's 50" Panasonic has it really bad on non-HD content. But only $400 for 5 more inches of screen space (TH-42PHD8UK) is almost too good to pass up.
I'll wait to see some reviews on those two, I think.
To put that on a professional series, that would add ~$350 to the TV price plus I'd have to put it all in myself.
But, the professional series are cheaper and perhaps a little better.
If I went pro-plasma it would be the TH-37PHD8UK. Sure, 42" would work but I'm really concerned about noticing pixellation at only ~7' away at 720p. My friend's 50" Panasonic has it really bad on non-HD content. But only $400 for 5 more inches of screen space (TH-42PHD8UK) is almost too good to pass up.
I'll wait to see some reviews on those two, I think.
It comes with a compenent input built in, I think - check the brochure - probably most people have their video switching done by an AV receiver, so that they only need the built in inputs.
I don't have a receiver, I guess I should find a good one.
I was reading the documentation on the two (37" & 42") and they pack in the same amount of pixels. I think if I go that route it's going to be the 37".
I don't have a receiver, I guess I should find a good one.
I was reading the documentation on the two (37" & 42") and they pack in the same amount of pixels. I think if I go that route it's going to be the 37".
How about some receiver recommendations!
I have had good luck with Denon and Onkyo receivers in the past, but I don't know what the current linup is like.
Unless you spend a ton of money, the receiver won't be able to switch HDMI, just component. It makes for a bit of a hacky system - you will have both audio and video switching until you go to the cable box (where you will have to change the source selection on both the TV and the receiver).
I just returned from Best Buy, and I was amazed that 1080 vertical lines haven't hit the mainstream yet. There was one, count it ONE TV that was capable of 1080. Wow. Looks like I still need to wait a while, which is fine since I don't really have the money for an HD display yet.
Yeah, the 37" Westinghouse is one I need to go take a look at.
Digital life TV had an early review of it- they said it was great if you're running native 1080p straight from the source (a computer). If you're upscaling 720p the image doesn't fair well- mainly due to the cheap electronics Westinghouse uses.
Most (if not all) content on an HD cable box is coming at 720p for the time being.
I saw a CRT TV with HD /ready on it for 799?. What does this mean? It has the Y, Pb,Pr exits. Does it downscale to 480p or something? Answer would be much appreciated.
I saw a CRT TV with HD /ready on it for 799?. What does this mean? It has the Y, Pb,Pr exits. Does it downscale to 480p or something? Answer would be much appreciated.
depends entirely on the manufacturer claims. we do know that it has component inputs. but with CRT, you have to look at what is the maximum number of lines it can display (it is not really true HighDef unless it hits 700 lines...) so my guess it is "HD" ready which means, yes, it can take a 720p or 1080i signal and downscale to about 400-500? lines. as far as i know (correct me others if i be wrong) CRT cannot do "progressive" the closest they come to is "flicker reduction" by pushing the signal out at 100hz or so interlaced.
it can get really confusing because some panasonic CRTs for example to 100hz while "deinterlacing" to some degree (they create blended frames out of the original 50hz (PAL) signal....
anyway, at the end of the day, the only real way to test this is to check out the specifics of that model CRT, see it in person playing back from a DVD, from a genuine 720p source (eg from your cable/satellite provider), and a genuine 1080i source. for that CRT and for now, don't worry about the 1080P...
Comments
Originally posted by groverat
Definitely.
One can say that true, full 720p is good enough and I won't argue because it is damned beautiful, but I have yet to read anything about there being some top-end, magic number of pixels.
Also, chances are that I'll be building a home theater PC, which would expand my 1080p options greatly.
Right now, I'd spend maybe $500 or $600 for 1080p over 720p all other things being equal. That might change.
After a bit of research via google, it looks like the limit of human perception is 1/60th of a degree (so that would be 1000x1800 pixels - just right below 1080p - with a 30 degree image, and a person with 20/20 vision).
groverat, what do your elf eyes see?
Our current TV is good for a 19" fishbowl, but even an nice EDTV would be an improvement. Perhaps the prudent thing is to not blow my wad right now and wait for the flat-panel 1080p market to mature. (As well as better tech for home theater PCs.)
I would make a decision but there's a Category 4 or 5 hurricane coming for me right now and it's hard to concentrate.
Originally posted by e1618978
After a bit of research via google, it looks like the limit of human perception is 1/60th of a degree (so that would be 1000x1800 pixels - just right below 1080p - with a 30 degree image, and a person with 20/20 vision).
well, someone better call all apple to cancel the 30inch cinema display
i may have not as good as 20/20 vision but sit me 5 feet from a 42" 16:9 screen and i can guarantee you i can tell the difference between a pure DVI input - no upscaler - 1920x1080 and 1280x720 mpeg2 or mpeg4 video. double-blind testing if you like. any video or web designer will definitely have this "pixel feel", along with audiovisual enthusiasts, gamers, etc, that far surpasses joe average's "limit" of human perception.
Originally posted by sunilraman
well, someone better call all apple to cancel the 30inch cinema display
i may have not as good as 20/20 vision but sit me 5 feet from a 42" 16:9 screen and i can guarantee you i can tell the difference between a pure DVI input - no upscaler - 1920x1080 and 1280x720 mpeg2 or mpeg4 video. double-blind testing if you like. any video or web designer will definitely have this "pixel feel", along with audiovisual enthusiasts, gamers, etc, that far surpasses joe average's "limit" of human perception.
I think that you will find that a 30" cinema display occupies more than 30 degrees of vision. Notice that you have to rotate your head to see the whole thing.
5 feet from a 42" screen would be also more than 30 degrees.
Also, you misunderstood me. I also think that you would be able to tell the difference between 1920x1080 and 1280x720 at 5 feet. What you can't tell the difference between is 1800x1000 and 180000000000000x10000000000000 at 7 feet.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...4782.Bp.r.html
"HUMAN EYE RESOLUTION
As a small object is moved closer to a human eye it appears larger with
more detail because it is filling more of the light sensors in the eyes
retina. The human eye has maximum resolution when an object is viewed as
close to the eye as possible before it goes out of focus. This point is
called the NEAR POINT or the POINT OF MOST DISTINCT VISION. This point is
about 25 centimeters (10inches) from the typical unaided human eye and the
angular resolution of the eye at this point is about 1/60 degree (.0167
degree). This is equivalent to being able to resolve two fine human hairs
spaced one hair width apart when placed at the point of most distinct
vision ."
You may want to get a sub-$1K to hold you over until the prices on large screen TVs really plunge. Besides, no one's going to drop prices on big screen TVs during NFL season, that's just leaving money on the table.
Where's a good spot to get the modules for the professional edition displays? I like the idea of customizing, but I'd like to see some real figures on what my preferred TV would look to cost.
Originally posted by groverat
e#s:
Where's a good spot to get the modules for the professional edition displays? I like the idea of customizing, but I'd like to see some real figures on what my preferred TV would look to cost.
Here is a list of the accessories:
http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp...K&displayTab=S
I use Froogle to find the lowest cost - you will probably want the HDMI board (TY-FB7HM) to hook up a PS3 with:
http://froogle.google.com/froogle_cl...ogle&scoring=p
HDMI - cable box
2xComponent - DVD & GameCube
To put that on a professional series, that would add ~$350 to the TV price plus I'd have to put it all in myself.
But, the professional series are cheaper and perhaps a little better.
If I went pro-plasma it would be the TH-37PHD8UK. Sure, 42" would work but I'm really concerned about noticing pixellation at only ~7' away at 720p. My friend's 50" Panasonic has it really bad on non-HD content. But only $400 for 5 more inches of screen space (TH-42PHD8UK) is almost too good to pass up.
I'll wait to see some reviews on those two, I think.
Originally posted by groverat
On a TV I'll want these at least:
HDMI - cable box
2xComponent - DVD & GameCube
To put that on a professional series, that would add ~$350 to the TV price plus I'd have to put it all in myself.
But, the professional series are cheaper and perhaps a little better.
If I went pro-plasma it would be the TH-37PHD8UK. Sure, 42" would work but I'm really concerned about noticing pixellation at only ~7' away at 720p. My friend's 50" Panasonic has it really bad on non-HD content. But only $400 for 5 more inches of screen space (TH-42PHD8UK) is almost too good to pass up.
I'll wait to see some reviews on those two, I think.
It comes with a compenent input built in, I think - check the brochure - probably most people have their video switching done by an AV receiver, so that they only need the built in inputs.
I was reading the documentation on the two (37" & 42") and they pack in the same amount of pixels. I think if I go that route it's going to be the 37".
How about some receiver recommendations!
Originally posted by groverat
I don't have a receiver, I guess I should find a good one.
I was reading the documentation on the two (37" & 42") and they pack in the same amount of pixels. I think if I go that route it's going to be the 37".
How about some receiver recommendations!
I have had good luck with Denon and Onkyo receivers in the past, but I don't know what the current linup is like.
Unless you spend a ton of money, the receiver won't be able to switch HDMI, just component. It makes for a bit of a hacky system - you will have both audio and video switching until you go to the cable box (where you will have to change the source selection on both the TV and the receiver).
Originally posted by groverat
Yeah, the 37" Westinghouse is one I need to go take a look at.
Digital life TV had an early review of it- they said it was great if you're running native 1080p straight from the source (a computer). If you're upscaling 720p the image doesn't fair well- mainly due to the cheap electronics Westinghouse uses.
Most (if not all) content on an HD cable box is coming at 720p for the time being.
Originally posted by tacojohn
Most (if not all) content on an HD cable box is coming at 720p for the time being.
And according to FOX, that's the highest HD standard available.
I'm just waiting for everyone to try to one-up the other guy's HD:
"They're only running 720p, but WE'VE got 1080i."
"They upgraded to 1080i, but WE upgraded to 1080p, which is MUCH better."
Let the pissing contests begin.
Originally posted by CosmoNut
And according to FOX, that's the highest HD standard available.
I'm just waiting for everyone to try to one-up the other guy's HD:
"They're only running 720p, but WE'VE got 1080i."
"They upgraded to 1080i, but WE upgraded to 1080p, which is MUCH better."
Let the pissing contests begin.
oh boy you DO NOT want to start a 720p vs 1080i debate
i've lurked at some hdtv forums and that's like mac vs pc or ati vs nvidia or something like that.....
but for the record
720p IS the highest HDTV standard widely available right now... it beats 1080i... and... nVidia RULZ !!!111!!!!111
Originally posted by fieldor
I saw a CRT TV with HD /ready on it for 799?. What does this mean? It has the Y, Pb,Pr exits. Does it downscale to 480p or something? Answer would be much appreciated.
depends entirely on the manufacturer claims. we do know that it has component inputs. but with CRT, you have to look at what is the maximum number of lines it can display (it is not really true HighDef unless it hits 700 lines...) so my guess it is "HD" ready which means, yes, it can take a 720p or 1080i signal and downscale to about 400-500? lines. as far as i know (correct me others if i be wrong) CRT cannot do "progressive" the closest they come to is "flicker reduction" by pushing the signal out at 100hz or so interlaced.
it can get really confusing because some panasonic CRTs for example to 100hz while "deinterlacing" to some degree (they create blended frames out of the original 50hz (PAL) signal....
anyway, at the end of the day, the only real way to test this is to check out the specifics of that model CRT, see it in person playing back from a DVD, from a genuine 720p source (eg from your cable/satellite provider), and a genuine 1080i source. for that CRT and for now, don't worry about the 1080P...
It's a dutch site but you get the idea, there is no info about lines. Could this be a EDTV?