I'm going to chime in with a "chill out" here. I can see you're upset about this and you're having a very "they're all drinking the kool-aid" moment(tm) but seriously... A ministore and you're ready to have a coronary?
Seems a bit over the top doesn't it? There are plenty of reasons to get a justified hate-on for Apple - this one just generates eye-rolls.
While I don´t have the same anger against it I would at least want Apple to play with me.
Instead of presenting music that means absolute nothing to me, why not implement two simple "if you like the current band, may we recommend..." and "Based on your total collection we think you might like this also..." columns.
There was a service on the net (forgot the adress) that placed a lot of artists in relation to eachother in a Bourdieu-like 2d room based on the input from the users. IMO it is the best recommendation-base I have seen. Much better than simple "Users who bought x also bought", lists or normal user recommendations. Apple would win a lot if they tried to take over/buy that database.
I've just upgraded to 6.0.2. of iTunes, and please remember that I've been a Mac user since 1986, so don't shoot me down just yet...
When I go to my iTunes Library I'm now greeted with a listing below my regular Library for ITMS lists. This is an abomination of longtime Apple usability and streaks of commercialism beyond the pale.
STFU
You can hide it, and seeing the store and the library in the same window is a cool feature for me when I do want to use the store...whats next, gonna stop shopping at Amazon because they recomend a few other items you may want at checkout?
Instead of presenting music that means absolute nothing to me, why not implement two simple "if you like the current band, may we recommend..." and "Based on your total collection we think you might like this also..." columns.
The ministore does present content according to what you hear - at least mine does.
I think that a valid question raised in all of this is that after so many updates in the last, say, six months. We have seen vast updates to the iTMS and related features (I include podcasts and shoddy video support), but almost no major features to itunes. And don't try to tell me that a slightly modifed interface is a new feature akin to those we've been asking for since iTunes 4 and before.
While I'm no near the "mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it any more!" reaction which started this thread, I do find the mini store intrusive (even though, yes, you can turn it off) and crass.
I'd be much happier if Apple gave us a real feature improvement, like gapless playback*, to compensate me for my irritation.
*Required, but probably futile, disclaimer: "Join CD tracks" and using crossfade with a delay of zero is NOT the same thing as gapless playback. Resist the urge to oh-so-helpfully suggest that they are. If you think so, you don't understand what gapless playback is.
Hey folks, I'd just like to apologise for my outburst last night, which was OTT.
It's just I really like iTunes and to see anything ruining that, especially adverts is just not on.
I've take some pills and filled out the appropriate feedback form!
Woot! See, now that's an appropriate response. Feedback to Apple is the best route.
And I'm right there with you in hating to see the cracks form in the products I like most... Fred Brooks (Mythical Man Month fame) once said that the reason everyone jumped on the "Drag Disk to Trash to Eject" as asinine in the Mac was because everything else was *so* well thought out that it stuck out like a sore thumb. The better the product, the more glaring even small missteps look.
I'd have been thrilled if, with the new ministore on as default, it had simply popped up a dialog on first launch post-update to say "Notice our new ministore at the bottom, here's what it does, and here's how to turn it off. Enjoy!" A small bone to throw to the user, but a nice one.
I think they've backed themselves into a corner with iTunes for a while - they can't change it too much without losing coherency with the Windows version, which is their *only* delivery method for everything at the iTMS. So... either they keep throwing crap into iTunes, or they come out with multiple apps that may or may not be adopted and used... it's a mess. It'll be interesting to see how they extricate themselves.
The big deal is that it is sending info to Apple without consent. The description in software update definitely didn't tell me it was adding this "handy" feature. If it did I wouldn't have upgraded.
Most people using iTunes are on the Windows side. It doesn't help to convert them to mac when their first apple software download is so commercial (kinda like the quicktime player).
Okay. Now I'm a bit more annoyed than I was before. Not outraged, exactly, but definitely more annoyed.
Did you read the update? Or his update at Macosxhints:
"Major Update:
I have just received confirmation from Apple directly (from a confirmed source I trust implicitly) that absolutely no information is being collected from the MiniStore (though clearly data is sent to make the feature work). Therefore, the following article is now simply a hint about an obvious feature (disabling the MiniStore), which I wouldn't typically run. However, in the interest of not rewriting history to avoid my mistakes, I have not changed any of the original text, though I did change the hint's title, and move the rest of the story 'below the break.'
So I'll apologize for jumping to conclusions, but not for helping bring the issue to light. And thanks to Apple for clarifying that no data is collected; you didn't have to contact me directly, yet you did, and I appreciate that.
this is why i was sad to see audion get axed... itunes IS becoming more and more a storefront than a player. and it would be nice to have a full featured, gorgeous straight-up player, like audion. hmmm... maybe panic will take it out of storage someday? but there's the issue of, i guess, audion wouldn't be able to play fairplay files, since apple won't license it out.
not only that, itunes is becoming a multi-headed beast, to coordinate with what the ipod can do, to drive sales there. kinda feels like the tail wagging the dog.
but um, "apple can go **** itself" seems, yeah, pretty harsh. i don't like much of anything about microsoft, but i'm not sure i have ever said the same even of THEM.
edit: okay, saw your calm-down post this morning. remember, when you're enraged, wait until the next morning before logging onto a keyboard.
Even if Apple doesn't store the information, it is little consolation. iTunes has now been programmed to send the information to Apple, and if they ever did want to start collecting it, they would have the ability to.
It's not that I'm worried that Apple will be laughing at my (potentially) embarrassing music collection, but I'm fairly certain that the data being sent to Apple could also verify the legality of the music being played.
All it would take is a subpoena for Apple to be forced to turn over the records, if they were collecting the data, even if Apple had the best intentions.
Anyways, my concern is two things: one I don't like Apple spying on users, which I feel is part of a growing trend on the internet.
The second is that Apple should have been much more forthcoming. Why didn't the description in Software Update mention the ministore? It's really the only new feature I've noticed. Are they hiding it? Because if they told me it added another music store, I wouldn't have upgraded, and I think others agree.
Oh I still would have upgraded - it's not something that I plan on using anyway.
And iTunes has been coded to send info to Apple from the very first appearance of the iTMS... search, clicking on links, etc. All sent to Apple. What's new is that it is implicit in the act of listening to your Library, if you have the MiniStore on.
Comments
Originally posted by awarenessengine
Yeah, let's make things all come down to a button. There's a button on Microsoft's taskbar called Start - look where that got them.
Again, too commercial, too obscene, too far from reality.
If I've lost the plot then so has Apple and Intel.
I have some extra Xanax, if you'd like one. It'd help. A lot.
Here's a suggestion: Stop applying updates. Along with bug-fixes, sometimes they carry new features which aren't helping your blood pressure.
Seems a bit over the top doesn't it? There are plenty of reasons to get a justified hate-on for Apple - this one just generates eye-rolls.
Originally posted by awarenessengine
Yeah, let's make things all come down to a button. There's a button on Microsoft's taskbar called Start - look where that got them.
World domination (untill Google arrived)?
Instead of presenting music that means absolute nothing to me, why not implement two simple "if you like the current band, may we recommend..." and "Based on your total collection we think you might like this also..." columns.
There was a service on the net (forgot the adress) that placed a lot of artists in relation to eachother in a Bourdieu-like 2d room based on the input from the users. IMO it is the best recommendation-base I have seen. Much better than simple "Users who bought x also bought", lists or normal user recommendations. Apple would win a lot if they tried to take over/buy that database.
Originally posted by awarenessengine
I've just upgraded to 6.0.2. of iTunes, and please remember that I've been a Mac user since 1986, so don't shoot me down just yet...
When I go to my iTunes Library I'm now greeted with a listing below my regular Library for ITMS lists. This is an abomination of longtime Apple usability and streaks of commercialism beyond the pale.
STFU
You can hide it, and seeing the store and the library in the same window is a cool feature for me when I do want to use the store...whats next, gonna stop shopping at Amazon because they recomend a few other items you may want at checkout?
Originally posted by Anders
Instead of presenting music that means absolute nothing to me, why not implement two simple "if you like the current band, may we recommend..." and "Based on your total collection we think you might like this also..." columns.
The ministore does present content according to what you hear - at least mine does.
Originally posted by JLL
The ministore does present content according to what you hear - at least mine does.
Not if you play Malk de Koijn
But you are right. If I choose something that is in the store the mini store reflects that.
I'd be much happier if Apple gave us a real feature improvement, like gapless playback*, to compensate me for my irritation.
*Required, but probably futile, disclaimer: "Join CD tracks" and using crossfade with a delay of zero is NOT the same thing as gapless playback. Resist the urge to oh-so-helpfully suggest that they are. If you think so, you don't understand what gapless playback is.
It's just I really like iTunes and to see anything ruining that, especially adverts is just not on.
I've take some pills and filled out the appropriate feedback form!
Originally posted by shetline
I'd be much happier if Apple gave us a real feature improvement, like gapless playback*, to compensate me for my irritation.
Damn right!
Originally posted by awarenessengine
Hey folks, I'd just like to apologise for my outburst last night, which was OTT.
It's just I really like iTunes and to see anything ruining that, especially adverts is just not on.
I've take some pills and filled out the appropriate feedback form!
Woot! See, now that's an appropriate response.
And I'm right there with you in hating to see the cracks form in the products I like most... Fred Brooks (Mythical Man Month fame) once said that the reason everyone jumped on the "Drag Disk to Trash to Eject" as asinine in the Mac was because everything else was *so* well thought out that it stuck out like a sore thumb. The better the product, the more glaring even small missteps look.
I'd have been thrilled if, with the new ministore on as default, it had simply popped up a dialog on first launch post-update to say "Notice our new ministore at the bottom, here's what it does, and here's how to turn it off. Enjoy!" A small bone to throw to the user, but a nice one.
I think they've backed themselves into a corner with iTunes for a while - they can't change it too much without losing coherency with the Windows version, which is their *only* delivery method for everything at the iTMS. So... either they keep throwing crap into iTunes, or they come out with multiple apps that may or may not be adopted and used... it's a mess. It'll be interesting to see how they extricate themselves.
Most people using iTunes are on the Windows side. It doesn't help to convert them to mac when their first apple software download is so commercial (kinda like the quicktime player).
http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/edit...tore/index.php
Okay. Now I'm a bit more annoyed than I was before. Not outraged, exactly, but definitely more annoyed.
Originally posted by shetline
Here's a article to expand upon what Danosaur wrote:
http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/edit...tore/index.php
Okay. Now I'm a bit more annoyed than I was before. Not outraged, exactly, but definitely more annoyed.
Did you read the update? Or his update at Macosxhints:
"Major Update:
I have just received confirmation from Apple directly (from a confirmed source I trust implicitly) that absolutely no information is being collected from the MiniStore (though clearly data is sent to make the feature work). Therefore, the following article is now simply a hint about an obvious feature (disabling the MiniStore), which I wouldn't typically run. However, in the interest of not rewriting history to avoid my mistakes, I have not changed any of the original text, though I did change the hint's title, and move the rest of the story 'below the break.'
So I'll apologize for jumping to conclusions, but not for helping bring the issue to light. And thanks to Apple for clarifying that no data is collected; you didn't have to contact me directly, yet you did, and I appreciate that.
-rob."
*grumble* Not good at all.
That the info isn't stored is good.
That the user isn't told that the feature sends info to Apple is bad.
That the feature is on by default, with no dialog on what it does or how to turn it off, *and* it sends info to Apple... grr.
not only that, itunes is becoming a multi-headed beast, to coordinate with what the ipod can do, to drive sales there. kinda feels like the tail wagging the dog.
but um, "apple can go **** itself" seems, yeah, pretty harsh. i don't like much of anything about microsoft, but i'm not sure i have ever said the same even of THEM.
edit: okay, saw your calm-down post this morning. remember, when you're enraged, wait until the next morning before logging onto a keyboard.
It's not that I'm worried that Apple will be laughing at my (potentially) embarrassing music collection, but I'm fairly certain that the data being sent to Apple could also verify the legality of the music being played.
All it would take is a subpoena for Apple to be forced to turn over the records, if they were collecting the data, even if Apple had the best intentions.
Anyways, my concern is two things: one I don't like Apple spying on users, which I feel is part of a growing trend on the internet.
The second is that Apple should have been much more forthcoming. Why didn't the description in Software Update mention the ministore? It's really the only new feature I've noticed. Are they hiding it? Because if they told me it added another music store, I wouldn't have upgraded, and I think others agree.
And iTunes has been coded to send info to Apple from the very first appearance of the iTMS... search, clicking on links, etc. All sent to Apple. What's new is that it is implicit in the act of listening to your Library, if you have the MiniStore on.