aren't we done with the 1 button mouse?

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 43
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    The one button mouse will die when it ceases to be a good option.



    You can argue Fitts' Law into the ground, but the overwhelming majority of Windows users I deal with right click once shown how to (literally, as in someone standing over them pointing at the button). Once taught, they point the mouse at that exact place, and right click to get the same menu in the same application for the same reason. They're just following a recipe. If I had a dime for every time I'd done the "right click- no, right- the other button" dance with someone I'd be rich.



    Mice point, and click (and scroll, if you feel like killing your wrists even faster). People understand that. Contextual menus require a deeper level of understanding (or a willingness to experiment, which is rare in an age where most people no longer feel like they control their own computers), and most people don't get there. If they have to go there, they follow recipes.



    That's not even getting into the crapulent ergonomics of multi button mice.



    I'm sorry, but there's no analogy between mice and keyboards, either. The mouse button has an abstract function. The 's' key produces the letter 's'. There are contexts where keystrokes have different meanings (vi, to pick an old favorite of mine, or browsers where the space bar pages through a document), but then there are at least as many contexts where contextual menus have different meanings—that being the whole point. I tend to use ALT-based keyboard combinations in Windows rather than CTRL based ones (ALT-F-S for save rather than CTRL-S) because in my experience the ALT key sequences are more consistent and more reliable. Despite the fact that it involves three whole buttons, typing ALT-F-S is a single motion that I execute unconsciously. I'd have to find the right place to right click to save (which varies from application to application and from state to state within an application), right click, scroll down to save, and select Save. Or I can whip off a quick series of keystrokes with no more thought or effort than it takes to type the word 'and' (less, actually, because it takes two hands to type 'and'). Big difference.



    Or, I can go to the highly reliable file menu, find save, and choose it. May be slower, may not be. Depends on the context. What it is, is far more consistently there.



    I'm not railing against contextual menus in general. When you have a feature rich application they can pull relevant features out from a dense thicket of options, in much the way that palettes (or Apple's context-sensitive Inspectors) do, and this is an unambiguous good thing. When the task is common enough, though, they're an extra layer of bother, because unless the interface is poorly designed there's a more generic element (especially: generic across applications, so you don't have to think about it) available to accomplish the same task.



    It's all about the tool for the job. If I spent a lot of time in X11, I'd run out and buy a three button mouse without hesitation. For gamers, sure, two buttons is not so much valuable as necessary, and if I were a gamer I'd have a two-button scroller. As it is, I have always used a single button mouse with a Mac for the simple reason that it's the best tool for the job. It has almost never gotten in my way, and it has saved my wrists by allowing me to click with two or three fingers instead of one. YMMV, which is why there are so many mice on the market, and which is also why Apple made sure that their OS works with them all out of the box (except the MS mouse, but Apple can't do anything about MS deliberately crippling their hardware...).



    So yes, the one button mouse lives. Muahahahahahahahahaha! Even if Apple starts leaning more heavily on contextual clicking I suspect they'll come up with a neater method than two physical buttons for their laptops. Right-clicking on laptops is a pain.
  • Reply 22 of 43
    dacloodacloo Posts: 890member
    when I use a mouse, I use a 2-button mouse. But with the trackpad, I ctrl-click. I find a two button trackpad confusing, on a Dell or Aspire also.

    A trackpad for me is a temporary controller, when I'm travelling and can't use a mouse e.g
  • Reply 23 of 43
    holy shit, has anyone else noticed that this is a LONG page devoted to the argument of which is beter: two buttons or one. this is a simple matter of opinion. I think i'll start a thread about which color is beter: red or blue.
  • Reply 24 of 43
    nauticalnautical Posts: 109member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Amorph

    The one button mouse will die when it ceases to be a good option. [...]



    Welcome back, Amorph! It's good to see that you have returned.
  • Reply 25 of 43
    kim kap solkim kap sol Posts: 2,987member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MisticMayhem

    holy shit, has anyone else noticed that this is a LONG page devoted to the argument of which is beter: two buttons or one. this is a simple matter of opinion. I think i'll start a thread about which color is beter: red or blue.



    It's definitely red.
  • Reply 26 of 43
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 10,060member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Amorph

    That's not even getting into the crapulent ergonomics of multi button mice.



    Do you mean that the mouse designers were drunk or that it's difficult to use a multi-button mouse when drunk?
  • Reply 27 of 43
    kim kap solkim kap sol Posts: 2,987member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by midwinter

    Do you mean that the mouse designers were drunk or that it's difficult to use a multi-button mouse when drunk?



    I think he meant that the mouse designers were drunk. It's not uncommon to see hardware companies insist that the mouse ergonomics are conceptualized by people under heavy alcohol influence.



    But there's also a possibility that he meant that it's difficult to use a multi-button mouse when drunk. The last few years have seen an marked increase in impaired mousing. Studies have shown that multi-button mice are indeed difficult to operate in the state of crapulence. Mis-clicks, in this condition, causing the kernel to crash has been on the rise since 1999.



    MADD (Mac-users Against Drunk Device-clicking) have been a huge proponent of the one-button mouse because it's very difficult to click the wrong button when there's only one to push.
  • Reply 28 of 43
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 10,060member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    [i]I think he meant that the mouse designers were drunk. It's not uncommon to see hardware companies insist that the mouse ergonomics are conceptualized by people under heavy alcohol influence.



    But there's also a possibility that he meant that it's difficult to use a multi-button mouse when drunk. The last few years have seen an marked increase in impaired mousing. Studies have shown that multi-button mice are indeed difficult to operate in the state of crapulence. Mis-clicks, in this condition, causing the kernel to crash has been on the rise since 1999. [/B]



    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
  • Reply 29 of 43
    placeboplacebo Posts: 5,767member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    I think he meant that the mouse designers were drunk. It's not uncommon to see hardware companies insist that the mouse ergonomics are conceptualized by people under heavy alcohol influence.



    But there's also a possibility that he meant that it's difficult to use a multi-button mouse when drunk. The last few years have seen an marked increase in impaired mousing. Studies have shown that multi-button mice are indeed difficult to operate in the state of crapulence. Mis-clicks, in this condition, causing the kernel to crash has been on the rise since 1999.



    MADD (Mac-users Against Drunk Device-clicking) have been a huge proponent of the one-button mouse because it's very difficult to click the wrong button when there's only one to push.




    ok
  • Reply 30 of 43
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,515moderator
    The problem with Apple is that it always went the route of the mono-clicker and it became a symbol of Mac simply because it differed from a PC.



    I got frustrated with one-button mice years ago and the trouble is you don't realise until you use a multi-button mouse how useful the other buttons actually are.



    Mighty Mouse is a step in the right direction but Apple still sell wireless one button mice.
  • Reply 31 of 43
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MisticMayhem

    holy shit, has anyone else noticed that this is a LONG page devoted to the argument of which is beter: two buttons or one. this is a simple matter of opinion.



    No, it isn't. Ergonomics and usability aren't subjective.
  • Reply 32 of 43
    Marvin's right -- this is more of a "Brand" issue than one of ergonomics or user friendliness. Macs have a menu bar and a one button mouse for the same reason BMWs have a kidney grille.
  • Reply 33 of 43
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    It's definitely red.



    you've got to be joking. it's blue
  • Reply 34 of 43
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Ireland

    That option exists



    how do i enable that on macos x? i'm running tiger.
  • Reply 35 of 43
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    I think he meant that the mouse designers were drunk. It's not uncommon to see hardware companies insist that the mouse ergonomics are conceptualized by people under heavy alcohol influence.



    But there's also a possibility that he meant that it's difficult to use a multi-button mouse when drunk. The last few years have seen an marked increase in impaired mousing. Studies have shown that multi-button mice are indeed difficult to operate in the state of crapulence. Mis-clicks, in this condition, causing the kernel to crash has been on the rise since 1999.



    MADD (Mac-users Against Drunk Device-clicking) have been a huge proponent of the one-button mouse because it's very difficult to click the wrong button when there's only one to push.




    Yes, exactly.
  • Reply 36 of 43
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Amorph

    Even if Apple starts leaning more heavily on contextual clicking I suspect they'll come up with a neater method than two physical buttons for their laptops. Right-clicking on laptops is a pain.



    And completely unnecessary with the CTRL key about 3" away on either side of the track pad.
  • Reply 37 of 43
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,515moderator
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Matsu

    And completely unnecessary with the CTRL key about 3" away on either side of the track pad.



    Sometimes while using a computer you can only use one hand. I don't just mean during masturbation either - there are disabled people too. How does a one armed person do a right-click?



    I nearly lost one of my arms (it's fine now though) and I can assure you, having a 5-button mouse was and still is very useful.



    Of course, you could say why not have a middle-click on laptops too because loads of software uses that for panning and is the equivalent of alt-click. Well, I wouldn't say no to that either.



    Y'see, it's not just a case of being able to make a single click. Some software requires you to right-click and then scroll. That's very difficult to do with a Mac laptop without hurting yourself.
  • Reply 38 of 43
    clonenodeclonenode Posts: 392member
    No one has mentioned the transition back and forth from mouse to track-pad. Typically, with a two button mouse, you build up a movement habit of using your pointer for the "normal" left click and your middle finger for the the less-common right click. This relates to the way many of us use these fingers (although this certainly can be argued): the pointer gets used a lot more for different things than the middle finger.



    When we move to a track-pad and it's single button (on a Mac), we typically use ONLY our thumb. So this one finger must do double duty on a PC laptop, hitting both the left and right buttons when needed. This action is a lot more awkward. I'll bet Apple has figured this out, as their new "two fingers on the track pad = right click" demonstrates the same idea: normal clicking with a single finger vs multiple fingers for special clicks.
  • Reply 39 of 43
    kim kap solkim kap sol Posts: 2,987member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Marvin

    Sometimes while using a computer you can only use one hand. I don't just mean during masturbation either - there are disabled people too. How does a one armed person do a right-click?



    I nearly lost one of my arms (it's fine now though) and I can assure you, having a 5-button mouse was and still is very useful.



    Of course, you could say why not have a middle-click on laptops too because loads of software uses that for panning and is the equivalent of alt-click. Well, I wouldn't say no to that either.



    Y'see, it's not just a case of being able to make a single click. Some software requires you to right-click and then scroll. That's very difficult to do with a Mac laptop without hurting yourself.




    Right-click and scroll?



    Most Mac apps (especially Apple apps) offer the 'context' options within the 'gear' button. Apps that don't offer this option are stupid and shouldn't be considered. So one-armed, two-armed, three-armed...it doesn't matter, The context options aren't (in theory) hidden or only accesible via right-clicks.



    This is what seperates the man GUIs from the boy GUIs. Most OS X apps (that matter) don't rely on multibutton mice.
  • Reply 40 of 43
    shroudshroud Posts: 30member
    I don't mind which mouse is provided on the desktop because I can change it to be whatever I want with a little added expense, but I do care about what is done on the laptop.



    **matter of opinion disclaimer**

    I greatly prefer to use a one-button mouse on a laptop and utilize the keyboard for all of the extra interface that I need. I agree with the poster above that a two-button mouse (on a laptop) is clunky and inefficient. On a laptop, the keys, the hand rest and the track pad are all so close that, at least for me, using the keys in conjunction with the track pad seems to be the most natural.

    **end disclaimer**



    All I can say is please keep the laptop lines with a one-button mouse!!!
Sign In or Register to comment.