That's why I think Apple should just buy elgato, and add it all into one Apple package. Maybe two packages. A less expensive entry level version, and a more robust solution. Because like I said elsewhere: I just don't see the real need for what is being offered now from Apple comparatively, but I do think Apple could immediately control the PVR market - and broaden it as fast, or faster than they overtook the MP3 market when they introduced the iPod. Apple could really strike twice in this decade if they did that.
After that I think it would only broaden their Mac sales far beyond what iPod has done to help them alone, and that may be their third major success in a really short period of time. These are the reasons I like the iTV but also dislike what Apple has shown us, because if they don't jump on this others will attempt to capitalize on it which will dilute the field, and the iPod will probably remain as Apples one fluke successful product.
Mmmm...I dunno how profitable the PVR market really is. TiVO has $200M in revenue and no profit other than for a bit in 2005 if I remember correctly. Of course, if they can settle with EchoStar 2007 will be a profitable year.
Elgato is privately held (and German) so you don't get the same visibility.
TiVO has a great UI...better than any of the variations from Comcast, DiSH, etc I've tried. I own a Replay too. I can see Front Row equalling it but really, there wasn't a whole lot to improve (note: I have an old Series 1...).
Still Apple is a hardware company but in a strict PVR arena I dunno that it holds many advantages over the incumbants. iTunes is only mildly profitable so selling content isn't where Apple makes money...selling iPods is. I dunno that they would sell more PVRs than TiVO and it wouldn't be subsidized by the monthly fee.
Personally, despite the advantages of TiVO I stopped using it and just lived with the $10/month HD-DVR Comcast supplied me with (which might be TiVO made but I think it was Motorolla). Sure beats paying...what? $700 for a TiVO Series 3 + Cablecard rental + Tivo monthly charge? That would be true of any apple offering as well. Hard to compete with nearly free. Especially since TiVO software is going to get used by Cox and not the so-so interface from Comcast. SeasonPass, for whatever reason, seemed poorly implemented everywhere else.
Plus cablecards are currently one-way so you lose VOD service...which is a downer...unless you use their box. Which can have a DVR built into it for $7/month more. Breakeven is what? 100 months?
So Apple doesn't control the entire food chain as it did with iTunes + iPod as it would the PVR market and would depend on cable, satellite and rbocs to make it work as seamlessly. Companies that have existing DVR partners and can provide addded value such as VOD, PPV, etc that compete with iTunes and who in some cases sell competitors to video iPods (like PocketDish). The "It Just Works" has to work with everything...including HD via CableCard, VOD, PPV, etc.
Meh. I don't believe all the IPTV hype but now that the RBOCs have gotten into the play it seems a lot more likely than a few years ago. I see iTV as some kind of IPTV play but not sure how Apple benefits other than not getting shut out of the living room. Microsoft is still hard at work with SBC/AT&T on their U-verse offering trying to tame packet loss (causing pixellation and freezups). They claim HD by end of October. We'll see.
If IPTV does work, and the RBOC are spending $$$ on it, then you can skip the PVR and end up in VODland. But unless video flips the business model to where iTunes is the big money maker vs hardware I dunno where the home run for Apple is. Then again, I dunno that Apple needs a home run with iTV but a base hit.
Here's an oddball question: Why is TVMini HD shaped funny and not stackable with the mini?
I have made a similar analogy, but it's not the one your suggesting.
I think iTV is pretty useless without the PVR, [?]
We disagree. I have plenty of non-PVR content on my computers for using with iTV.
Jootec from Mars mentioned a few valid reasons for not putting a PVR in iTV's base unit. And providing program guides for different international regions is another consideration that would add complexity and possibly increase the price.
I've benefited from EyeTV being a separate PVR component and would lose portability if that capability were built into iTV or Macs.
We disagree. I have plenty of non-PVR content on my computers for using with iTV.
Jootec from Mars mentioned a few valid reasons for not putting a PVR in iTV's base unit. And providing program guides for different international regions is another consideration that would add complexity and possibly increase the price.
I've benefited from EyeTV being a separate PVR component and would lose portability if that capability were built into iTV or Macs.
I'm not saying that iTV doesn't do things. How usefull they are for the average TV consumer is another question. Loose the Apple zealotism, and take another look.
And now the price is what? a Mac Mini ($599 to $799 base), EyeTV ($199 to $350 for HD), and an iTV? ($299) Lets just keep throwing in the cash to make this thing a usefull PVR. Pfft... \ THe cheapest you can dio this is about $1100.00 before taxes.
I'm not saying that iTV doesn't do things. How usefull they are for the average TV consumer is another question. Loose the Apple zealotism, and take another look.
And now the price is what? a Mac Mini ($599 to $799 base), EyeTV ($199 to $350 for HD), and an iTV? ($299) Lets just keep throwing in the cash to make this thing a usefull PVR. Pfft... \ THe cheapest you can dio this is about $1100.00 before taxes.
You don't need an iTV for SD PVR...just a mini and a EyeTV. $800.
What makes you think that an Apple SD PVR solution would be cheaper than $800? And why is it compelling vs a $700 Series 3 or a $10/mo HD-DVR from your cable company? Frontrow?
I guarantee it wont work as well as the cable HD-DVR with respect to getting PPV and VOD working as things stand today unless Apple inks a deal with Cox, Comcast and Dish. Getting Frontrow as a replacement for the so-so UI is hardly a decent trade off.
I'm not saying that iTV doesn't do things. How usefull they are for the average TV consumer is another question. Loose the Apple zealotism, and take another look.
And now the price is what? a Mac Mini ($599 to $799 base), EyeTV ($199 to $350 for HD), and an iTV? ($299) Lets just keep throwing in the cash to make this thing a usefull PVR. Pfft... \ THe cheapest you can dio this is about $1100.00 before taxes.
I think we're missing the point here. Apple isn't really interested in offering a traditional PVR as iTunes allows you to download your TV shows/Movies directly, pre-broadcast, pre-advert now at similar quality. Broadcast TV is effectively a competitior & whilst PVRs are better as a capure concept than VCR capturing a one-off transmission is still prone to errors - downloading isn't (miss a block, just get it again).
iTV looks great as a media breakout box and would be a good option for those with Machines already but why not release two products; one for existing iTunes users and one for home theatre consumers who want something better than TV/PVR. What a great opportunity to deploy Macs wholesale - as consumer devices. Buy an add-on keyboard/mouse package and Apple has another Mac user.
I think we're missing the point here. Apple isn't really interested in offering a traditional PVR as iTunes allows you to download your TV shows/Movies directly, pre-broadcast, pre-advert now at similar quality. Broadcast TV is effectively a competitior & whilst PVRs are better as a capure concept than VCR capturing a one-off transmission is still prone to errors - downloading isn't (miss a block, just get it again).
iTV looks great as a media breakout box and would be a good option for those with Machines already but why not release two products; one for existing iTunes users and one for home theatre consumers who want something better than TV/PVR. What a great opportunity to deploy Macs wholesale - as consumer devices. Buy an add-on keyboard/mouse package and Apple has another Mac user.
Am I dreaming?
McD
I'm not disagreeing with you on that one bit. Well except that TV is a competitor. But the one of the main pro PVR arguments is penetration. How useful is the iTV to the average TV consumer without it? No use at all. Looking at it from the consumer standpoint, and not an Apple fan standpoint this product is a buy, and keep buying, and buying, and buying " " " " " " " " "... And so on. Not a great deal, and not a consumer friendly deal either.
Please lose (with one 'o') the snide remarks if you want to engage in a civil discussion about the topic. And I don't know where you got the impression my comments were tainted by Apple zealotry.
Frankly, I couldn't care less if iTV will or won't be a product for average consumers.
Btw, does anyone remember Jobs asking the audience at the Showtime event for their reaction to iTV's pricing? I can't find it in the stream anywhere after he announced $299 at about 1:05:22. Hmm.
Sorry sjk. I did have you quoted, but it was directed to any zealot reading. Not you in particular. More people are making reasons that this is such a great way to spend $300, and they don't have any reasonable answer for it. I keep reading what people are saying in various places (mainly Mac blogs) and these people are obviously just way to Apple happy. When a consumer starts pointing out that he would rather start spending money for a free TV show than have a proven product that will help him manage his programming, and then do so much more if he choses to use the iTunes store (which everybody will) You have to wonder about their sensibility.
I was actually thinking that perhaps the iTV IS Apple's implementation of viiv.
it's an interesting age where computers are starting to grow towards TVs and TVs are... well, you guessed it!
for what it's worth, I support the name teleport? for the iTV all the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jootec from Mars
I haven't read the whole thread, nor any other thread on the iTV but last night I had a thought.
The iTV effectively has Front Row functionality. It can pull audio, video and photos from other computers on your network. And it can pull audio and video from the web. How many people this functionality appeals to I don't know. But think about this ...
On the back of the iTV is a USB port. What could that be for? May be you could plug in HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, DVD/CD, PVR units designed by Apple giving that extra functionality. They stack underneath the iTV. They are cheap in comparison to other players aimed at consumers because they effectively just contain the drive, all the extra functionality required is performed by the iTV.
It's also possible that it could be used to surf the web, take iChat sessions etc.
Now you have this fantastic silent piece of kit that gives you access to all media types and personal communications and does not cost you the consumer that much. Compare this to similar functionality performed by the Xbox 360, PS3 or even Viiv and Apple have a clear winner here.
How useful is the iTV to the average TV consumer without it? No use at all.
The average consumer don't want to see their photos on their tv? They don't want to change music from the living room? They don't want to see their iMovies without burning a DVD? They don't want to see the tv-shows and movies they buy in iTS on their tv?
The only thing on your list that can't already be done is "They don't want to see the tv-shows and movies they buy in iTS on their tv?"
Your forgetting the average consumer isn't a Mac user. Only about 4% of all computer users are Mac users. On average your trying to identify this product with a group who holds no affiliation with you, or Apple.
Wouldn't it be easier to put the box out there for everyone? Apple used to be a hardware company. I think they should try to keep with that philosophy. "If they build it - they will come" doesn't work if your building a product that holds no real value for the majority of America. They could conceivably capture a huge portion of TV owners if they go directly for a stand point that - We (Apple) are the makers of the "phenom" known as iPod, and offer a system that has something for every one. Going directly at the Tivo (Tivo is just an example PVR) market with a Tivo - Plus so much more - attitude they can trounce the iPod phenomenon with this thing, but in all reality what they are offering is pretty a lame, and the market for this is not 1/100th as great as it could be.
The only thing on your list that can't already be done is "They don't want to see the tv-shows and movies they buy in iTS on their tv?"
Your forgetting the average consumer isn't a Mac user. Only about 4% of all computer users are Mac users. On average your trying to identify this product with a group who holds no affiliation with you, or Apple.
Wouldn't it be easier to put the box out there for everyone? Apple used to be a hardware company. I think they should try to keep with that philosophy.
?
I don't know what you are trying to say or precisely what you are replying to, but you do know that iTV works with Windows too, right?
It did seem like it would work with windows. When Jobs introduced it, he said he was showing a Mac "because he's biased" but that it would work with a PC. But I wonder what PC photo program, if any, will work with iTV?
But I wonder what PC photo program, if any, will work with iTV?
It doesn't need to work that way, much like iTunes doesn't need a photo program to put photos on the iPod, it just needs the user to point to the user's photo folder. I believe it is the iTunes program that is doing the sharing to the iTV in much the same way Front Row can tap other computers, assuming those other computers are running iTunes.
The only thing on your list that can't already be done is "They don't want to see the tv-shows and movies they buy in iTS on their tv?"
There were tons of mp3 players on the market before the iPod. Just because media extenders exists today doesn't mean that Apple can't release one.
And I haven't found one that works correctly with my Mac and my music.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker
Your forgetting the average consumer isn't a Mac user. Only about 4% of all computer users are Mac users. On average your trying to identify this product with a group who holds no affiliation with you, or Apple.
People with no affilation to Apple buy iPods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker
Wouldn't it be easier to put the box out there for everyone?
iTV will work with Mac OS X and Windows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker
They could conceivably capture a huge portion of TV owners if they go directly for a stand point that - We (Apple) are the makers of the "phenom" known as iPod, and offer a system that has something for every one. Going directly at the Tivo (Tivo is just an example PVR) market with a Tivo - Plus so much more - attitude they can trounce the iPod phenomenon with this thing, but in all reality what they are offering is pretty a lame, and the market for this is not 1/100th as great as it could be.
You focus too much on TV owners doing nothing but recording and watching tv. What about music, pictures, movies?
Today you have to go to the computer to change you music, invite your guests into your home office (or whatever) to show them your photos.
I see no need to compete with PVR makers since Apple would have to make at least 10-12 different models if they have to include a tuner and want to release this outside the US.
There were tons of mp3 players on the market before the iPod. Just because media extenders exists today doesn't mean that Apple can't release one.
What on earth does that have to do with the heart of what I said? If your addressing something irrelevant to what I said don't quote me please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL
And I haven't found one that works correctly with my Mac and my music.
OK, lets direct focus on the iPod instead of the iTV I get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL
People with no affilation to Apple buy iPods.
Yes, but my point is that Windows doesn't have all the iLife stuff FOR ITV that Mac's do that's why I'm saying that this is mostly a Mac based product. And overall the few mac like things it does do are not that widely used. (in reality) THey make good commercials, and presentations, and have great "Ooo", and "Ahh" factor, but they are no where near as popular as TV. It's not the same game, nor is it the same ballpark, or even the same universe in terms of popularity, and use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL
iTV will work with Mac OS X and Windows.
Yes it will, but how well, and what will windows offer. As I said you can already do all those things on a computer except watch movies for the iTS, and that is not much of an attraction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL
You focus too much on TV owners doing nothing but recording and watching tv. What about music, pictures, movies?
I never said TV owners do nothing but.. blah blah blah. TV watchers use TV to watch TV. How many nights a week do you sit down, and watch a photo-disk for two hours? Comparatively the television is going to be used 99% of the time for watching television shows and movies for a long time to come. There is no getting around that. iTV isn't going to turn the world into a bunch of families that sit down to still picture viewers for hours of enjoyment, and relaxation at the end of their hectic days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL
Today you have to go to the computer to change you music, invite your guests into your home office (or whatever) to show them your photos.
How often are you going to do it? You are going to lose a lot of friends if all you do is have them over to look at your photos. Unless your Annie Liebowitz, or something. Then maybe some people would be interested, but how many times can even Annie Liebowitz do that until it gets old?
BUt it will be use primarily by a family, or 1, or two people. If it were Annie Liebowitz, is she going to want to sit around and watch her photos all the time when she is alone? Or is she maybe interested in catching the last few episodes of 24 because she was away snapping a photo-shoot for the Rolling Stones on tour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLL
I see no need to compete with PVR makers since Apple would have to make at least 10-12 different models if they have to include a tuner and want to release this outside the US.
Your post was pretty easy to address because you had all your paragraphs neatly dissecting my two paragraphs. PLease quit cutting my posts up as if they are separate paragraphs. Each of these are commenting the same quarrel, and separately they don't make sense. It's easy to cut up a paragraph into individual sentences, and pretend each sentence is strictly what it says, but but in paragraph form it hinges on the overall. Nice diversion on your part, but truth is this product is all fantasy presentation that no one is ever going to use very frequently. NO where near a frequently as a PVR.
Yes, but my point is that Windows doesn't have all the iLife stuff FOR ITV that Mac's do that's why I'm saying that this is mostly a Mac based product.
I don't know why you think iLife is necessary or even relevant. iTunes is already available for Windows, and it is likely to be the program that is serving the photos, video and audio. iMovie does nothing for iTV except edit a movie that you would later put into iTunes. iDVD is irrelevant to iTV because it doesn't have a DVD drive. Garage Band might be used to edit audio, but it's still imported into iTunes. iPhoto isn't necessary to manage the photo library, all iTunes needs is a pointer to a photo folder, any photo program or even a file manager can be used to handle that. This is apparent in how iTunes for Windows handles photos to put into the iPod.
I don't know why you think iLife is necessary. iTunes is already available for Windows, and it is the program that is serving the photos, video and audio. iMovie does nothing for iTV except edit a movie that you would later put into iTunes. iDVD is irrelevant to iTV because it doesn't have a DVD drive. iPhoto isn't necessary to manage the photo library, all iTunes needs is a pointer to a photo folder, any photo program or even a file manager can be used to handle that. This is apparent in how iTunes for Windows handles photos to put into the iPod. Garage Band might be used to edit audio, but it's still imported into iTunes.
Whatever, but why don't you read the rest of the post and tell me if you think it matters. How often is a person going to use it in comparison to the way they use their TV today?
Comments
You "found out", or you "pulled out of your behind"?
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,12...t/article.html
That info I pulled from out of my behind.
That's why I think Apple should just buy elgato, and add it all into one Apple package. Maybe two packages. A less expensive entry level version, and a more robust solution. Because like I said elsewhere: I just don't see the real need for what is being offered now from Apple comparatively, but I do think Apple could immediately control the PVR market - and broaden it as fast, or faster than they overtook the MP3 market when they introduced the iPod. Apple could really strike twice in this decade if they did that.
After that I think it would only broaden their Mac sales far beyond what iPod has done to help them alone, and that may be their third major success in a really short period of time. These are the reasons I like the iTV but also dislike what Apple has shown us, because if they don't jump on this others will attempt to capitalize on it which will dilute the field, and the iPod will probably remain as Apples one fluke successful product.
Mmmm...I dunno how profitable the PVR market really is. TiVO has $200M in revenue and no profit other than for a bit in 2005 if I remember correctly. Of course, if they can settle with EchoStar 2007 will be a profitable year.
Elgato is privately held (and German) so you don't get the same visibility.
TiVO has a great UI...better than any of the variations from Comcast, DiSH, etc I've tried. I own a Replay too. I can see Front Row equalling it but really, there wasn't a whole lot to improve (note: I have an old Series 1...).
Still Apple is a hardware company but in a strict PVR arena I dunno that it holds many advantages over the incumbants. iTunes is only mildly profitable so selling content isn't where Apple makes money...selling iPods is. I dunno that they would sell more PVRs than TiVO and it wouldn't be subsidized by the monthly fee.
Personally, despite the advantages of TiVO I stopped using it and just lived with the $10/month HD-DVR Comcast supplied me with (which might be TiVO made but I think it was Motorolla). Sure beats paying...what? $700 for a TiVO Series 3 + Cablecard rental + Tivo monthly charge? That would be true of any apple offering as well. Hard to compete with nearly free. Especially since TiVO software is going to get used by Cox and not the so-so interface from Comcast. SeasonPass, for whatever reason, seemed poorly implemented everywhere else.
Plus cablecards are currently one-way so you lose VOD service...which is a downer...unless you use their box. Which can have a DVR built into it for $7/month more. Breakeven is what? 100 months?
So Apple doesn't control the entire food chain as it did with iTunes + iPod as it would the PVR market and would depend on cable, satellite and rbocs to make it work as seamlessly. Companies that have existing DVR partners and can provide addded value such as VOD, PPV, etc that compete with iTunes and who in some cases sell competitors to video iPods (like PocketDish). The "It Just Works" has to work with everything...including HD via CableCard, VOD, PPV, etc.
Meh. I don't believe all the IPTV hype but now that the RBOCs have gotten into the play it seems a lot more likely than a few years ago. I see iTV as some kind of IPTV play but not sure how Apple benefits other than not getting shut out of the living room. Microsoft is still hard at work with SBC/AT&T on their U-verse offering trying to tame packet loss (causing pixellation and freezups). They claim HD by end of October. We'll see.
If IPTV does work, and the RBOC are spending $$$ on it, then you can skip the PVR and end up in VODland. But unless video flips the business model to where iTunes is the big money maker vs hardware I dunno where the home run for Apple is. Then again, I dunno that Apple needs a home run with iTV but a base hit.
Here's an oddball question: Why is TVMini HD shaped funny and not stackable with the mini?
Vinea
I have made a similar analogy, but it's not the one your suggesting.
I think iTV is pretty useless without the PVR, [?]
We disagree. I have plenty of non-PVR content on my computers for using with iTV.
Jootec from Mars mentioned a few valid reasons for not putting a PVR in iTV's base unit. And providing program guides for different international regions is another consideration that would add complexity and possibly increase the price.
I've benefited from EyeTV being a separate PVR component and would lose portability if that capability were built into iTV or Macs.
We disagree. I have plenty of non-PVR content on my computers for using with iTV.
Jootec from Mars mentioned a few valid reasons for not putting a PVR in iTV's base unit. And providing program guides for different international regions is another consideration that would add complexity and possibly increase the price.
I've benefited from EyeTV being a separate PVR component and would lose portability if that capability were built into iTV or Macs.
I'm not saying that iTV doesn't do things. How usefull they are for the average TV consumer is another question. Loose the Apple zealotism, and take another look.
And now the price is what? a Mac Mini ($599 to $799 base), EyeTV ($199 to $350 for HD), and an iTV? ($299) Lets just keep throwing in the cash to make this thing a usefull PVR. Pfft...
I'm not saying that iTV doesn't do things. How usefull they are for the average TV consumer is another question. Loose the Apple zealotism, and take another look.
And now the price is what? a Mac Mini ($599 to $799 base), EyeTV ($199 to $350 for HD), and an iTV? ($299) Lets just keep throwing in the cash to make this thing a usefull PVR. Pfft...
You don't need an iTV for SD PVR...just a mini and a EyeTV. $800.
What makes you think that an Apple SD PVR solution would be cheaper than $800? And why is it compelling vs a $700 Series 3 or a $10/mo HD-DVR from your cable company? Frontrow?
I guarantee it wont work as well as the cable HD-DVR with respect to getting PPV and VOD working as things stand today unless Apple inks a deal with Cox, Comcast and Dish. Getting Frontrow as a replacement for the so-so UI is hardly a decent trade off.
Vinea
I'm not saying that iTV doesn't do things. How usefull they are for the average TV consumer is another question. Loose the Apple zealotism, and take another look.
And now the price is what? a Mac Mini ($599 to $799 base), EyeTV ($199 to $350 for HD), and an iTV? ($299) Lets just keep throwing in the cash to make this thing a usefull PVR. Pfft...
I think we're missing the point here. Apple isn't really interested in offering a traditional PVR as iTunes allows you to download your TV shows/Movies directly, pre-broadcast, pre-advert now at similar quality. Broadcast TV is effectively a competitior & whilst PVRs are better as a capure concept than VCR capturing a one-off transmission is still prone to errors - downloading isn't (miss a block, just get it again).
iTV looks great as a media breakout box and would be a good option for those with Machines already but why not release two products; one for existing iTunes users and one for home theatre consumers who want something better than TV/PVR. What a great opportunity to deploy Macs wholesale - as consumer devices. Buy an add-on keyboard/mouse package and Apple has another Mac user.
Am I dreaming?
McD
I think we're missing the point here. Apple isn't really interested in offering a traditional PVR as iTunes allows you to download your TV shows/Movies directly, pre-broadcast, pre-advert now at similar quality. Broadcast TV is effectively a competitior & whilst PVRs are better as a capure concept than VCR capturing a one-off transmission is still prone to errors - downloading isn't (miss a block, just get it again).
iTV looks great as a media breakout box and would be a good option for those with Machines already but why not release two products; one for existing iTunes users and one for home theatre consumers who want something better than TV/PVR. What a great opportunity to deploy Macs wholesale - as consumer devices. Buy an add-on keyboard/mouse package and Apple has another Mac user.
Am I dreaming?
McD
I'm not disagreeing with you on that one bit. Well except that TV is a competitor. But the one of the main pro PVR arguments is penetration. How useful is the iTV to the average TV consumer without it? No use at all. Looking at it from the consumer standpoint, and not an Apple fan standpoint this product is a buy, and keep buying, and buying, and buying " " " " " " " " "... And so on. Not a great deal, and not a consumer friendly deal either.
Loose the Apple zealotism, and take another look.
Please lose (with one 'o') the snide remarks if you want to engage in a civil discussion about the topic. And I don't know where you got the impression my comments were tainted by Apple zealotry.
Frankly, I couldn't care less if iTV will or won't be a product for average consumers.
Btw, does anyone remember Jobs asking the audience at the Showtime event for their reaction to iTV's pricing? I can't find it in the stream anywhere after he announced $299 at about 1:05:22. Hmm.
it's an interesting age where computers are starting to grow towards TVs and TVs are... well, you guessed it!
for what it's worth, I support the name teleport? for the iTV all the way.
I haven't read the whole thread, nor any other thread on the iTV but last night I had a thought.
The iTV effectively has Front Row functionality. It can pull audio, video and photos from other computers on your network. And it can pull audio and video from the web. How many people this functionality appeals to I don't know. But think about this ...
On the back of the iTV is a USB port. What could that be for? May be you could plug in HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, DVD/CD, PVR units designed by Apple giving that extra functionality. They stack underneath the iTV. They are cheap in comparison to other players aimed at consumers because they effectively just contain the drive, all the extra functionality required is performed by the iTV.
It's also possible that it could be used to surf the web, take iChat sessions etc.
Now you have this fantastic silent piece of kit that gives you access to all media types and personal communications and does not cost you the consumer that much. Compare this to similar functionality performed by the Xbox 360, PS3 or even Viiv and Apple have a clear winner here.
I wonder if there is any truth to this?
How useful is the iTV to the average TV consumer without it? No use at all.
The average consumer don't want to see their photos on their tv? They don't want to change music from the living room? They don't want to see their iMovies without burning a DVD? They don't want to see the tv-shows and movies they buy in iTS on their tv?
Your forgetting the average consumer isn't a Mac user. Only about 4% of all computer users are Mac users. On average your trying to identify this product with a group who holds no affiliation with you, or Apple.
Wouldn't it be easier to put the box out there for everyone? Apple used to be a hardware company. I think they should try to keep with that philosophy. "If they build it - they will come" doesn't work if your building a product that holds no real value for the majority of America. They could conceivably capture a huge portion of TV owners if they go directly for a stand point that - We (Apple) are the makers of the "phenom" known as iPod, and offer a system that has something for every one. Going directly at the Tivo (Tivo is just an example PVR) market with a Tivo - Plus so much more - attitude they can trounce the iPod phenomenon with this thing, but in all reality what they are offering is pretty a lame, and the market for this is not 1/100th as great as it could be.
The only thing on your list that can't already be done is "They don't want to see the tv-shows and movies they buy in iTS on their tv?"
Your forgetting the average consumer isn't a Mac user. Only about 4% of all computer users are Mac users. On average your trying to identify this product with a group who holds no affiliation with you, or Apple.
Wouldn't it be easier to put the box out there for everyone? Apple used to be a hardware company. I think they should try to keep with that philosophy.
?
I don't know what you are trying to say or precisely what you are replying to, but you do know that iTV works with Windows too, right?
But I wonder what PC photo program, if any, will work with iTV?
It doesn't need to work that way, much like iTunes doesn't need a photo program to put photos on the iPod, it just needs the user to point to the user's photo folder. I believe it is the iTunes program that is doing the sharing to the iTV in much the same way Front Row can tap other computers, assuming those other computers are running iTunes.
The only thing on your list that can't already be done is "They don't want to see the tv-shows and movies they buy in iTS on their tv?"
There were tons of mp3 players on the market before the iPod. Just because media extenders exists today doesn't mean that Apple can't release one.
And I haven't found one that works correctly with my Mac and my music.
Your forgetting the average consumer isn't a Mac user. Only about 4% of all computer users are Mac users. On average your trying to identify this product with a group who holds no affiliation with you, or Apple.
People with no affilation to Apple buy iPods.
Wouldn't it be easier to put the box out there for everyone?
iTV will work with Mac OS X and Windows.
They could conceivably capture a huge portion of TV owners if they go directly for a stand point that - We (Apple) are the makers of the "phenom" known as iPod, and offer a system that has something for every one. Going directly at the Tivo (Tivo is just an example PVR) market with a Tivo - Plus so much more - attitude they can trounce the iPod phenomenon with this thing, but in all reality what they are offering is pretty a lame, and the market for this is not 1/100th as great as it could be.
You focus too much on TV owners doing nothing but recording and watching tv. What about music, pictures, movies?
Today you have to go to the computer to change you music, invite your guests into your home office (or whatever) to show them your photos.
I see no need to compete with PVR makers since Apple would have to make at least 10-12 different models if they have to include a tuner and want to release this outside the US.
There were tons of mp3 players on the market before the iPod. Just because media extenders exists today doesn't mean that Apple can't release one.
What on earth does that have to do with the heart of what I said? If your addressing something irrelevant to what I said don't quote me please.
And I haven't found one that works correctly with my Mac and my music.
OK, lets direct focus on the iPod instead of the iTV I get it.
People with no affilation to Apple buy iPods.
Yes, but my point is that Windows doesn't have all the iLife stuff FOR ITV that Mac's do that's why I'm saying that this is mostly a Mac based product. And overall the few mac like things it does do are not that widely used. (in reality) THey make good commercials, and presentations, and have great "Ooo", and "Ahh" factor, but they are no where near as popular as TV. It's not the same game, nor is it the same ballpark, or even the same universe in terms of popularity, and use.
iTV will work with Mac OS X and Windows.
Yes it will, but how well, and what will windows offer. As I said you can already do all those things on a computer except watch movies for the iTS, and that is not much of an attraction.
You focus too much on TV owners doing nothing but recording and watching tv. What about music, pictures, movies?
I never said TV owners do nothing but.. blah blah blah. TV watchers use TV to watch TV. How many nights a week do you sit down, and watch a photo-disk for two hours? Comparatively the television is going to be used 99% of the time for watching television shows and movies for a long time to come. There is no getting around that. iTV isn't going to turn the world into a bunch of families that sit down to still picture viewers for hours of enjoyment, and relaxation at the end of their hectic days.
Today you have to go to the computer to change you music, invite your guests into your home office (or whatever) to show them your photos.
How often are you going to do it? You are going to lose a lot of friends if all you do is have them over to look at your photos. Unless your Annie Liebowitz, or something. Then maybe some people would be interested, but how many times can even Annie Liebowitz do that until it gets old?
BUt it will be use primarily by a family, or 1, or two people. If it were Annie Liebowitz, is she going to want to sit around and watch her photos all the time when she is alone? Or is she maybe interested in catching the last few episodes of 24 because she was away snapping a photo-shoot for the Rolling Stones on tour?
I see no need to compete with PVR makers since Apple would have to make at least 10-12 different models if they have to include a tuner and want to release this outside the US.
Your post was pretty easy to address because you had all your paragraphs neatly dissecting my two paragraphs. PLease quit cutting my posts up as if they are separate paragraphs. Each of these are commenting the same quarrel, and separately they don't make sense. It's easy to cut up a paragraph into individual sentences, and pretend each sentence is strictly what it says, but but in paragraph form it hinges on the overall. Nice diversion on your part, but truth is this product is all fantasy presentation that no one is ever going to use very frequently. NO where near a frequently as a PVR.
Yes, but my point is that Windows doesn't have all the iLife stuff FOR ITV that Mac's do that's why I'm saying that this is mostly a Mac based product.
I don't know why you think iLife is necessary or even relevant. iTunes is already available for Windows, and it is likely to be the program that is serving the photos, video and audio. iMovie does nothing for iTV except edit a movie that you would later put into iTunes. iDVD is irrelevant to iTV because it doesn't have a DVD drive. Garage Band might be used to edit audio, but it's still imported into iTunes. iPhoto isn't necessary to manage the photo library, all iTunes needs is a pointer to a photo folder, any photo program or even a file manager can be used to handle that. This is apparent in how iTunes for Windows handles photos to put into the iPod.
I don't know why you think iLife is necessary. iTunes is already available for Windows, and it is the program that is serving the photos, video and audio. iMovie does nothing for iTV except edit a movie that you would later put into iTunes. iDVD is irrelevant to iTV because it doesn't have a DVD drive. iPhoto isn't necessary to manage the photo library, all iTunes needs is a pointer to a photo folder, any photo program or even a file manager can be used to handle that. This is apparent in how iTunes for Windows handles photos to put into the iPod. Garage Band might be used to edit audio, but it's still imported into iTunes.
Whatever, but why don't you read the rest of the post and tell me if you think it matters. How often is a person going to use it in comparison to the way they use their TV today?