(vinea)As far as not having HD...well the folks that really think that 640x480 is the end resolution for iTV believe that Steve is a complete idiot. There are already many folks with the bandwidth requirements but SpamSandwich wants to believe its still 1996 and not 2006. The majority of Verizon, SBC, BellSouth and cable customers will be able to stream 720p within a few years. The telcos are investing billions into the buildout...$15-$20B by Verizon alone. Many of their customers have the bandwidth to stream 720p movies today.
Neither you nor I know what Steve is planning, but what he has shown and what you think he's shown don't match at this point. Don't forget that most of the United States is not big cities. Most of the U.S. is still smaller towns and farmland. Those areas will see little to no benefit from what you describe for years to come. Possibly decades.
Quote:
The majority of internet users aready have broadband and can download 720p movies overnight.
Where are you getting your "facts"? Post some links... and once again, if I am in the sweet spot of the supposed "target market" for iTV, I'm not waiting overnight to get my movie. I'll just go to Blockbuster or Best Buy.
Quote:
So the pieces are all there for HD. Without HD the iTV box wouldn't sell. So yes, it doesn't make sense if you insist that all it can play is 640x480. Of course you're being incredibly stupid if you make that assumption because Steve talked about hooking it up to your "big flat panel TV"...and 640x480 will look like ass on the larger displays in comparison to even cable HD feeds much less HD-DVD and BR.
You hit the nail on the head. There's no announcement for HD, HD is difficult if not impossible for most people to download, the iTV is ahead of it's time. Too soon.
Both Steve Jobs, and Bill Gates have noted, in public statements, that they feel that the DVD is the last physical media we will see movie content use. This box, and other products like it, will be what makes that come true.
I don't know about Jobs, but Gates didn't say DVD, but HD-DVD/BluRay would probably be the last major physical media formats.
There's no announcement for HD, HD is difficult if not impossible for most people to download, the iTV is ahead of it's time. Too soon.
Apple is simply locking up the market(s). If you don't want to participate this early... that's fine.
As hard drives continue to get larger and the mean internet speed continues to increase, I believe this will become an increasingly kick-butt way to deal with all of our media... with the Mac at the center of it all... leveraging its superior user interface and management capabilities, while TV set-ups can be utilized for their superior presentation capabilities when desired. iPods obviously bringing up the portable end of things. I believe Steve is thinking about this with a very long term frame of mind. Apple is willing to have people download media of questionable quality now, to later realize this vision of the future.
Apple is simply locking up the market(s). If you don't want to participate this early... that's fine.
As hard drives continue to get larger and the mean internet speed continues to increase, I believe this will become an increasingly kick-butt way to deal with all your media... with the Mac at the center of it all so as to leverage its superior user interface and management capabilities, and leveraging your TV set-up for its superior presentation capabilities when desired. I believe Steve is thinking about this with a very long term frame of mind.
Everyone who has looked over the announcement knows this product is not ready for the Average Consumer yet. Sure, it will be changed a bit before it's unleashed next year, but if Jobs sticks to the advertised price point, it probably won't sport too much more functionality.
Choose to believe whatever you want. A lot would have to fall into place before next year for iTV to overdeliver on its promise. Long term, this could be a nice platform, but frankly, I'd rather the entire TV be an Apple smart appliance. It's an extremely challenging direction Jobs is charting for Apple next. I want everyone to be happy and make more money (... if you didn't buy AAPL yet, you could be in for a long slog).
Maybe what Jobs introduced was just a decoy to throw off competitors? I'm not saying Apple isn't going to enter the home market, but since Jobs said it's a "project code name," it implies it isn't finished, of course. But just that Jobs has been such a stickler for not letting secrets go too cheaply (consenting to the lawsuits against the people at websites such as this, et al) I would think there is more than meets the eye to this mini pizza set-top box, or whether this is Apple's approach at all? Maybe Steve was giving everyone misinformation?
\tPerhaps they will (as plasma or lcd prices even come further down) make a pro-sumer oversized widescreen iMac (with computer in back naturally) and compete with plasma makers??? This is maybe their next step after any possible iTV or variant of wired/wireless set-top box; or maybe this is really what they have planned too, in addition to the iTV? Then the iMac would integrate/contain the computer, the wireless technology to stream the content via the internet or an external huge hard drive/server that contains content you own - maybe it might look like a MacMini. Or it could be the other way around, Jobs could be telling us the truth, with component pieces based on the MacMini in stackable beauty. The iMac looks like a flat monitor anyway, and they already have wall mount kits to buy.
\tConcerning the need for multiple remote controls, Apple has patented a touch screen method of having virtual remotes on a tablet - talk about a universal remote control! See this blog/article: http://www.macnn.com/blogs/?p=98 Maybe Apple will release this uber-tablet (with built in mic so I can say "MUTE" when I need to answer the phone*) in January with software that controls the monitors mode, i.e., 1) Computer/PVR, 2) TV (cable, satellite, etc), and and eventually phone. The latter idea I'm uncertain about, but would love for apple to tackle, software with speakerphone capabilities perhaps or its own bluetooth earphone/speaker. Or how about some wireless 802.11 microphones please. My phone (home or cell) is part of my hub too, Apple. I do like the little FrontRow remote, though, and if it could be the uber-controler (other than voice) I would be happy, because a bunch of remote controls on a tablet are still a bunch of remote controls.
The wheel of the FrontRow will keep expanding. The key is in the software, and Apple knows this. Well thought out software can kill hardware and formats. Because MS is dragging its ass on Longhorn or Vista?it's really hurting box makers like Dell, HP and Sony, etc. Apple mantra of ease of use is turning the market users to buy their hardware. Remember, we still know very little about what Leopard will offer. January should prove very interesting, unless Apple releases something else before the holidays.
Like I just said to pt123, don't ask me, ask the NFL - they signed the agreement with Apple! I imagine it has to do with another revenue stream...
And again, Apple doesn't want you to record your favorite TV show, they want you to buy it from the ITS, period, end of story. Don't look for it anytime soon.
Besides, there's cost. I've heard enough people sputter over the cost - add an HDD, redesign the case, add circuitry to control/power it, and the cost goes up, what - $150? fergit it, that's why they have gigabit ethernet and will have 802.11n wireless for - to connect it to an appliance you'll already own that has that - your PC or Mac.
You don't need to do any of that to watch it on your iPod, the 640x480 is sized to work with the iPod with no compression. Same file, HD or iPod.
And it's not up to you to decide what will or won't stop or diminish TV sales on ITS, that's Apple's call,and they've decided, at least for now. fuhgitaboutit!
Actually if they were sure about it, I think it would have been done by now. They have had this thing floating around Apple forever. And it's not done until it ships. So don't fuhgitaboutit just yet. I doubt Apple would let this thing out the door like this.
OK, question. If I went out and got a Mac mini with Frontrow and an Elgato box plugged into a TV, would the iTV add anything to this setup or is it unnecessary because its functions are already taken by the Mac and Elgato?
The mini can already do just about anything the iTV does and more. I don't see where you would benefit by getting the iTV if you did that, unless you had the hopes of moving the mini to a desk later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilco
How does it replace my stereo? Are you expecting people to listen to their music through their tv's speakers?
The audio outs can go to your amplifier. There's nothing in the device that would appear to prevent you from sending the audio signal to the reciever/amp. So it really only would replace the CD player. But to operate it, you still need a display to be on so you can select your playlist and such, the current iTV has no way to tell you in its front panel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker
I imagine he is thinking it had airport express built in. But there is no way it's going to replace my Onkyo.
No, because there's no amplifier output, only a few audio line-outs.
This would appear to offer a few different audio options. Optical could go to a reciever and the analog could go to the TV. HDMI can go to a reciever, which would either a pass-through to send the video to the TV, and maybe a switch.
The mini can already do just about anything the iTV does and more. I don't see where you would benefit by getting the iTV if you did that, unless you had the hopes of moving the mini to a desk later.
Some people seem enamored with the idea of a mini+iTV "media center" but I'm not sure their reasons for wanting them hooked together. For me the primary value of iTV is it being able to interact with computers and media library storage in other locations.
Some people seem enamored with the idea of a mini+iTV "media center" but I'm not sure their reasons for wanting them hooked together. For me the primary value of iTV is it being able to interact with computers and media library storage in other locations.
Yeah, I want one of my computers to have a big hairy monster raided tetrabyte plus drive that I download or rip or whatever my content to and then, in whatever place in the house (or in the backyard) I want to get my content beamed to, either computer, stereo, TV, whatever, it just goes there. No muss, no fuss, no having to worry where everything is, or how to get to it. That's where the iTV works for me. I'm sure attaching it to a Mini would add other capabilities, but I don't need the iTV to be the hub for me, just a way to get content to my TV that is elsewhere.
While the iTV looks cool, I can't help but think that Apple should make a video iPod that is capable of driving a full sized TV. This way, you could load your iPod with videos, bring it over to a friends house, plug it into the tv and watch the video as if you were watching it from a DVD player.
While the iTV looks cool, I can't help but think that Apple should make a video iPod that is capable of driving a full sized TV. This way, you could load your iPod with videos, bring it over to a friends house, plug it into the tv and watch the video as if you were watching it from a DVD player.
What part of the current video iPod can't do that? Granted, it doesn't support component, but there are docks that support S-video out and remote control.
Neither you nor I know what Steve is planning, but what he has shown and what you think he's shown don't match at this point. Don't forget that most of the United States is not big cities. Most of the U.S. is still smaller towns and farmland. Those areas will see little to no benefit from what you describe for years to come. Possibly decades.
The majority of the population is concentrated in urban areas. Only 20% of americans live in rural areas according to the 2000 census.
Some rural areas with good local cable companies (some co-op) has had as good or better connectivity and overall wireless is likely to play a much larger part in rural areas than areas.
Where are you getting your "facts"? Post some links... and once again, if I am in the sweet spot of the supposed "target market" for iTV, I'm not waiting overnight to get my movie. I'll just go to Blockbuster or Best Buy.
I posted links. You simply choose not to click on them despite claiming they are too high in the other thread.
28% of all households have broadband. 48% of online households have broadband. GAO report.
Sorry that the "facts" disagree with your world view. If you can't use Google then you sure as hell aren't in the "sweet spot" for the target market.
Quote:
You hit the nail on the head. There's no announcement for HD, HD is difficult if not impossible for most people to download, the iTV is ahead of it's time. Too soon.
Bullshit. Waiting longer for more broadband and HD penetration allows Microsoft and Sony to catch up. Waiting longer allows the HD-DVD and BluRay camps to make nice. There 95.5 million prospective buyers and if only 1% (an order of magnitude lower than the market study suggest) respond thats still a successful product launch.
By the time they launch (Q1 2007), Verizon, SBC, BellSouth and Comcast will have added millions of more broadband users. It wont take "overnight" to download 720p movies for a large number of broadband users.
The mini can already do just about anything the iTV does and more. I don't see where you would benefit by getting the iTV if you did that, unless you had the hopes of moving the mini to a desk later.
The part that the mini doesn't provide is a secure video chain where the content is encrypted until the final display. According to Microsoft that can't happen without hardware changes to support the software security. At least that's why they claim you'll never see HD-DVD and BR playback on XP and must wait for Vista.
iTV provides that as a set top without much user access. Its a desired capability by the studios despite them not enabling the bit to force downrez to component.
The next generation Mini might be able to do this...but I doubt that the current GMA950 can support HDCP. Plus all the Apple Cinema displays have to get rev'd to support HDCP to get true HD on the desktop.
The next generation Mini might be able to do this...but I doubt that the current GMA950 can support HDCP. Plus all the Apple Cinema displays have to get rev'd to support HDCP to get true HD on the desktop.
I suppose you have a point. The GMA3000 will support HDMI though, and that's supposed to be out next spring.
I found out why apple is releasing movies and TV programs at a reduced quality. The movie industry demanded that apple release a lower quality product because of fears that higher quality video would be pirated. An example of the movie industry being as ignorant as the music industry.
The mini can already do just about anything the iTV does and more. I don't see where you would benefit by getting the iTV if you did that, unless you had the hopes of moving the mini to a desk later.
.
The mac mini simply doesn't have the video & audio capablities of the iTV. There is no S-Video, Component, or Optical.
Comments
(vinea)As far as not having HD...well the folks that really think that 640x480 is the end resolution for iTV believe that Steve is a complete idiot. There are already many folks with the bandwidth requirements but SpamSandwich wants to believe its still 1996 and not 2006. The majority of Verizon, SBC, BellSouth and cable customers will be able to stream 720p within a few years. The telcos are investing billions into the buildout...$15-$20B by Verizon alone. Many of their customers have the bandwidth to stream 720p movies today.
Neither you nor I know what Steve is planning, but what he has shown and what you think he's shown don't match at this point. Don't forget that most of the United States is not big cities. Most of the U.S. is still smaller towns and farmland. Those areas will see little to no benefit from what you describe for years to come. Possibly decades.
The majority of internet users aready have broadband and can download 720p movies overnight.
Where are you getting your "facts"? Post some links... and once again, if I am in the sweet spot of the supposed "target market" for iTV, I'm not waiting overnight to get my movie. I'll just go to Blockbuster or Best Buy.
So the pieces are all there for HD. Without HD the iTV box wouldn't sell. So yes, it doesn't make sense if you insist that all it can play is 640x480. Of course you're being incredibly stupid if you make that assumption because Steve talked about hooking it up to your "big flat panel TV"...and 640x480 will look like ass on the larger displays in comparison to even cable HD feeds much less HD-DVD and BR.
You hit the nail on the head. There's no announcement for HD, HD is difficult if not impossible for most people to download, the iTV is ahead of it's time. Too soon.
Both Steve Jobs, and Bill Gates have noted, in public statements, that they feel that the DVD is the last physical media we will see movie content use. This box, and other products like it, will be what makes that come true.
I don't know about Jobs, but Gates didn't say DVD, but HD-DVD/BluRay would probably be the last major physical media formats.
There's no announcement for HD, HD is difficult if not impossible for most people to download, the iTV is ahead of it's time. Too soon.
Apple is simply locking up the market(s). If you don't want to participate this early... that's fine.
As hard drives continue to get larger and the mean internet speed continues to increase, I believe this will become an increasingly kick-butt way to deal with all of our media... with the Mac at the center of it all... leveraging its superior user interface and management capabilities, while TV set-ups can be utilized for their superior presentation capabilities when desired. iPods obviously bringing up the portable end of things. I believe Steve is thinking about this with a very long term frame of mind. Apple is willing to have people download media of questionable quality now, to later realize this vision of the future.
Apple is simply locking up the market(s). If you don't want to participate this early... that's fine.
As hard drives continue to get larger and the mean internet speed continues to increase, I believe this will become an increasingly kick-butt way to deal with all your media... with the Mac at the center of it all so as to leverage its superior user interface and management capabilities, and leveraging your TV set-up for its superior presentation capabilities when desired. I believe Steve is thinking about this with a very long term frame of mind.
Everyone who has looked over the announcement knows this product is not ready for the Average Consumer yet. Sure, it will be changed a bit before it's unleashed next year, but if Jobs sticks to the advertised price point, it probably won't sport too much more functionality.
Choose to believe whatever you want. A lot would have to fall into place before next year for iTV to overdeliver on its promise. Long term, this could be a nice platform, but frankly, I'd rather the entire TV be an Apple smart appliance. It's an extremely challenging direction Jobs is charting for Apple next. I want everyone to be happy and make more money (... if you didn't buy AAPL yet, you could be in for a long slog).
\tPerhaps they will (as plasma or lcd prices even come further down) make a pro-sumer oversized widescreen iMac (with computer in back naturally) and compete with plasma makers??? This is maybe their next step after any possible iTV or variant of wired/wireless set-top box; or maybe this is really what they have planned too, in addition to the iTV? Then the iMac would integrate/contain the computer, the wireless technology to stream the content via the internet or an external huge hard drive/server that contains content you own - maybe it might look like a MacMini. Or it could be the other way around, Jobs could be telling us the truth, with component pieces based on the MacMini in stackable beauty. The iMac looks like a flat monitor anyway, and they already have wall mount kits to buy.
\tConcerning the need for multiple remote controls, Apple has patented a touch screen method of having virtual remotes on a tablet - talk about a universal remote control! See this blog/article: http://www.macnn.com/blogs/?p=98 Maybe Apple will release this uber-tablet (with built in mic so I can say "MUTE" when I need to answer the phone*) in January with software that controls the monitors mode, i.e., 1) Computer/PVR, 2) TV (cable, satellite, etc), and and eventually phone. The latter idea I'm uncertain about, but would love for apple to tackle, software with speakerphone capabilities perhaps or its own bluetooth earphone/speaker. Or how about some wireless 802.11 microphones please. My phone (home or cell) is part of my hub too, Apple. I do like the little FrontRow remote, though, and if it could be the uber-controler (other than voice) I would be happy, because a bunch of remote controls on a tablet are still a bunch of remote controls.
The wheel of the FrontRow will keep expanding. The key is in the software, and Apple knows this. Well thought out software can kill hardware and formats. Because MS is dragging its ass on Longhorn or Vista?it's really hurting box makers like Dell, HP and Sony, etc. Apple mantra of ease of use is turning the market users to buy their hardware. Remember, we still know very little about what Leopard will offer. January should prove very interesting, unless Apple releases something else before the holidays.
Like I just said to pt123, don't ask me, ask the NFL - they signed the agreement with Apple! I imagine it has to do with another revenue stream...
And again, Apple doesn't want you to record your favorite TV show, they want you to buy it from the ITS, period, end of story. Don't look for it anytime soon.
Besides, there's cost. I've heard enough people sputter over the cost - add an HDD, redesign the case, add circuitry to control/power it, and the cost goes up, what - $150? fergit it, that's why they have gigabit ethernet and will have 802.11n wireless for - to connect it to an appliance you'll already own that has that - your PC or Mac.
You don't need to do any of that to watch it on your iPod, the 640x480 is sized to work with the iPod with no compression. Same file, HD or iPod.
And it's not up to you to decide what will or won't stop or diminish TV sales on ITS, that's Apple's call,and they've decided, at least for now. fuhgitaboutit!
Actually if they were sure about it, I think it would have been done by now. They have had this thing floating around Apple forever. And it's not done until it ships. So don't fuhgitaboutit just yet. I doubt Apple would let this thing out the door like this.
Don't you get the idea? When this box lets you access all your content from iTunes USING THE APPLE REMOTE, then you will be able to eliminate:
1. stereo
2. dvd player
3. vhs player
4. TV remote (cause you'll be watching TV through the iTV)
5. home theater system (cause eventually, the iTV will replace that, too)
There go your four remotes, all rolled into one! (yeah, I know that's 5, but a lotta folks won't have the vhs...)
You should have stopped at 29.
How does it replace my stereo? Are you expecting people to listen to their music through their tv's speakers?
You should have stopped at 29.
How does it replace my stereo? Are you expecting people to listen to their music through their tv's speakers?
I imagine he is thinking it had airport express built in. But there is no way it's going to replace my Onkyo.
OK, question. If I went out and got a Mac mini with Frontrow and an Elgato box plugged into a TV, would the iTV add anything to this setup or is it unnecessary because its functions are already taken by the Mac and Elgato?
The mini can already do just about anything the iTV does and more. I don't see where you would benefit by getting the iTV if you did that, unless you had the hopes of moving the mini to a desk later.
How does it replace my stereo? Are you expecting people to listen to their music through their tv's speakers?
The audio outs can go to your amplifier. There's nothing in the device that would appear to prevent you from sending the audio signal to the reciever/amp. So it really only would replace the CD player. But to operate it, you still need a display to be on so you can select your playlist and such, the current iTV has no way to tell you in its front panel.
I imagine he is thinking it had airport express built in. But there is no way it's going to replace my Onkyo.
No, because there's no amplifier output, only a few audio line-outs.
This would appear to offer a few different audio options. Optical could go to a reciever and the analog could go to the TV. HDMI can go to a reciever, which would either a pass-through to send the video to the TV, and maybe a switch.
The mini can already do just about anything the iTV does and more. I don't see where you would benefit by getting the iTV if you did that, unless you had the hopes of moving the mini to a desk later.
Some people seem enamored with the idea of a mini+iTV "media center" but I'm not sure their reasons for wanting them hooked together. For me the primary value of iTV is it being able to interact with computers and media library storage in other locations.
Some people seem enamored with the idea of a mini+iTV "media center" but I'm not sure their reasons for wanting them hooked together. For me the primary value of iTV is it being able to interact with computers and media library storage in other locations.
Yeah, I want one of my computers to have a big hairy monster raided tetrabyte plus drive that I download or rip or whatever my content to and then, in whatever place in the house (or in the backyard) I want to get my content beamed to, either computer, stereo, TV, whatever, it just goes there. No muss, no fuss, no having to worry where everything is, or how to get to it. That's where the iTV works for me. I'm sure attaching it to a Mini would add other capabilities, but I don't need the iTV to be the hub for me, just a way to get content to my TV that is elsewhere.
- Mark
While the iTV looks cool, I can't help but think that Apple should make a video iPod that is capable of driving a full sized TV. This way, you could load your iPod with videos, bring it over to a friends house, plug it into the tv and watch the video as if you were watching it from a DVD player.
What part of the current video iPod can't do that? Granted, it doesn't support component, but there are docks that support S-video out and remote control.
- Mark
Neither you nor I know what Steve is planning, but what he has shown and what you think he's shown don't match at this point. Don't forget that most of the United States is not big cities. Most of the U.S. is still smaller towns and farmland. Those areas will see little to no benefit from what you describe for years to come. Possibly decades.
The majority of the population is concentrated in urban areas. Only 20% of americans live in rural areas according to the 2000 census.
Some rural areas with good local cable companies (some co-op) has had as good or better connectivity and overall wireless is likely to play a much larger part in rural areas than areas.
http://www.phptr.com/articles/article.asp?p=28793&rl=1
Where are you getting your "facts"? Post some links... and once again, if I am in the sweet spot of the supposed "target market" for iTV, I'm not waiting overnight to get my movie. I'll just go to Blockbuster or Best Buy.
I posted links. You simply choose not to click on them despite claiming they are too high in the other thread.
28% of all households have broadband. 48% of online households have broadband. GAO report.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d06426.pdf
68% of active online users have broadband (that's called a "majority"). There are 95.5 million US broadband users as of Februrary 2006. Nielsen.
http://www.netratings.com/pr/pr_060314.pdf
June numbers indicate a jump to 73.1%
http://www.websiteoptimization.com/bw/0607/
3 million new broadband customers in Q1 2006 alone.
http://www.leichtmanresearch.com/pre...06release.html
Sorry that the "facts" disagree with your world view. If you can't use Google then you sure as hell aren't in the "sweet spot" for the target market.
You hit the nail on the head. There's no announcement for HD, HD is difficult if not impossible for most people to download, the iTV is ahead of it's time. Too soon.
Bullshit. Waiting longer for more broadband and HD penetration allows Microsoft and Sony to catch up. Waiting longer allows the HD-DVD and BluRay camps to make nice. There 95.5 million prospective buyers and if only 1% (an order of magnitude lower than the market study suggest) respond thats still a successful product launch.
http://www.dvd-intelligence.com/main...nes_movies.htm
By the time they launch (Q1 2007), Verizon, SBC, BellSouth and Comcast will have added millions of more broadband users. It wont take "overnight" to download 720p movies for a large number of broadband users.
Vinea
The mini can already do just about anything the iTV does and more. I don't see where you would benefit by getting the iTV if you did that, unless you had the hopes of moving the mini to a desk later.
The part that the mini doesn't provide is a secure video chain where the content is encrypted until the final display. According to Microsoft that can't happen without hardware changes to support the software security. At least that's why they claim you'll never see HD-DVD and BR playback on XP and must wait for Vista.
iTV provides that as a set top without much user access. Its a desired capability by the studios despite them not enabling the bit to force downrez to component.
The next generation Mini might be able to do this...but I doubt that the current GMA950 can support HDCP. Plus all the Apple Cinema displays have to get rev'd to support HDCP to get true HD on the desktop.
Vinea
The next generation Mini might be able to do this...but I doubt that the current GMA950 can support HDCP. Plus all the Apple Cinema displays have to get rev'd to support HDCP to get true HD on the desktop.
I suppose you have a point. The GMA3000 will support HDMI though, and that's supposed to be out next spring.
The mini can already do just about anything the iTV does and more. I don't see where you would benefit by getting the iTV if you did that, unless you had the hopes of moving the mini to a desk later.
.
The mac mini simply doesn't have the video & audio capablities of the iTV. There is no S-Video, Component, or Optical.