Disney chief talks up Apple's iTV media hub

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Comments

  • Reply 141 of 211
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DCQ


    True. It's silly to think back about what I thought about Apple, especially considering I'm probably more aware than most people of the "electronic sweatshop" in Asia that underpins the whole economic base of America's [sic] technological prowess.



    But that's what disillusionment is always like. As with any magician's trick, if you don't know how it's done, then it seems wonderful; once you see the trick, then it's impossible to ignore it.



    There are at least three cures for disillusionment:



    1. Buy more stuff and just forgetaboutit. (Consumer-centric Captitalism Method) America's number one answer!!



    2. Leave for another socio-economic paradigm. (The Ugly American Ex-patriot / Colonialist Method) But those are now almost gone or they involve moving to places without cable - and they invariably have their own problems that you simply make worse as you bring your own problems with you. In Oregon, we call those people Californians.)



    3. Change the systemic problems that create either the illusion or the destruction of the good behind the illusion. (Alternative/Counter-culture Method) In other words be honest to kids and each other about the illusion behind Disney shows, that white-males-know-best, that democracy can be founded by the barrel of a gun and that "Survivor" is real. At least the kids will get it. OR work to eliminate the economic and political banalities that drive out the REAL good things in the world like good Disney films, locally grown food, the Clean Air and Water Acts that didn't hurt business for 30 years but are all of a sudden anti-freedom(?), and neighborhoods without gates.



    This last is probably the best way, but it is easy to become self-important and leads to friends who "just don't know what has happened to you" ... mostly because they are probably using cure number 1 on themselves.
  • Reply 142 of 211
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross


    The WORLD'S prowess. Also, most of what is done there is invented here. There's a big difference.



    Chine is looking to see a big fall in the not too far away future. An interesting article in either the Times or the WSJ Monday (I forget which).



    The best book on this subject that I've ever read is The Power of the Machine: Global Inequalities of Economic, Technology and Environment by Alf Hornborg. It is pretty dense reading but for geeks like us, it goes through the history and even physics of how value is given to where things are invented, built and sold. It isn't preachy, just thorough and takes a scientific approach to why globalism began with slaves and rum and has evolved to computers and cars and how the system drives the problems we see between East and West and North and South. I would urge everyone who cares about this to read it, because it isn't lefty or righty spinning.
  • Reply 143 of 211
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell


    Apple is siding against it customers because they will not develop a DVR? You are basing this all on the point that Apple is not going to make hardware that allows you to record television?



    Apple does nothing to stop third party products from giving the Mac this very functionality. Can we grasp a little rationality here.





    This is where you are wrong. Apple has consciously chosen to get into the TV, or living room, and in doing so they decided to give you choice to "buy" TV shows that are already "free".

    Apple is known for reduction of clutter, so your saying that they now want you to add more components to record TV? No they want you to "buy" from them what is "Free", and if they were not they wouldn't be for sale. They are getting you to choose Apple because you trust Apple. Choose Apple not a DVR. We have a new delivery system we think you will like, but we are intentionally going to F*** you at the drive through. That is what Apple is demonstrating here.

    If they wanted to take the living room they should have taken the DVR market while they were at it. ReplayTV has to be pretty cheap to buy. Although this unsettled Tivo lawsuit may have something to do with the future of DVR. If anything, I hope that is all Apple is waiting on.
  • Reply 144 of 211
    Yeah, this is a little crazy onlooker.



    Apple now sells a product (Airport express/airtunes) that lets you access the music that's on your Mac and listen to it on your stereo. Now that people have a lot of video content - including, but not limited to videos purchased on iTunes - they're going to sell a product that lets you watch them on your TV. It's absolutely logical for them, and it's truly absurd for you to suggest that because it lacks a totally different product, they've somehow turned on their customers.



    I'd use this thing frequently (if I ever get a more modern TV, that is), and I've never purchased videos from iTunes, and don't see myself doing so. I also don't have much interest in recording the crap that's on TV, so I'm glad they're not going to increase the price and include extra functionality that I don't want. People that do want it can purchase elgato's products that will almost certainly appear in the future.



    Don't buy it if you won't use it - lots of people don't buy lots of Apple's products after all - but to suggest it's some kind of conspiracy because they left out a DVR is really whacked.
  • Reply 145 of 211
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by onlooker


    This is where you are wrong. Apple has consciously chosen to get into the TV, or living room, and in doing so they decided to give you choice to "buy" TV shows that are already "free".



    Nothing is free. Anyone that tells you otherwise is selling something. TiVO is not free. HD-DVRs from Comcast are not free. Building your own MythTV box isn't free. Watching "free" TV isn't free unless you don't value your time spent watching commercials. Heck, TV for many folks isn't free.



    Quote:

    Apple is known for reduction of clutter, so your saying that they now want you to add more components to record TV? No they want you to "buy" from them what is "Free", and if they were not they wouldn't be for sale. They are getting you to choose Apple because you trust Apple. Choose Apple not a DVR. We have a new delivery system we think you will like, but we are intentionally going to F*** you at the drive through. That is what Apple is demonstrating here.



    If you don't like the service don't buy it. Simple enough. They aren't screwing you or removing your capability to buy from someone else. Folks the the RBOCs and Cable companies (with their tiered internet idea) are trying to do so. What do you TRUST those folks?



    Quote:

    If they wanted to take the living room they should have taken the DVR market while they were at it. ReplayTV has to be pretty cheap to buy. Although this unsettled Tivo lawsuit may have something to do with the future of DVR. If anything, I hope that is all Apple is waiting on.



    Why? The only way TiVO gets into profitability this year is through a settlement with DISH. DVRs are great but not nearly as good as VOD. Why cling to an outmoded mechanism?



    Apple is finding the middle ground where content providers are willing to provide content in a manner that is profitable but not too onerous for the users. How many content providers using the ad models are going to be happy with widespread use of DVRs? None. SonicBlue was driven into bankruptcy by content providers annoyed with ReplayTV. The ReplayTV of today is the 3rd incarnation...is $99 and is software only. At least the EPG is only $20 a year.



    Vinea
  • Reply 146 of 211
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,061member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by onlooker


    This is where you are wrong. Apple has consciously chosen to get into the TV, or living room, and in doing so they decided to give you choice to "buy" TV shows that are already "free".

    Apple is known for reduction of clutter, so your saying that they now want you to add more components to record TV? No they want you to "buy" from them what is "Free", and if they were not they wouldn't be for sale. They are getting you to choose Apple because you trust Apple. Choose Apple not a DVR. We have a new delivery system we think you will like, but we are intentionally going to F*** you at the drive through. That is what Apple is demonstrating here.

    If they wanted to take the living room they should have taken the DVR market while they were at it. ReplayTV has to be pretty cheap to buy. Although this unsettled Tivo lawsuit may have something to do with the future of DVR. If anything, I hope that is all Apple is waiting on.



    Apple isn't against their customers because they choose that road. They feel that it is the best way to go. You can disagree, that's fine, but it doesn't mean that Apple is doing something wrong.



    Not only do they have to come up with a way to get computing services into the living room, but they have to do it in a way that leaves them a roadmap to built on it. A PVR may not leave them that roadmap. This does.



    There is no point in angering your content providers by bypassing them.



    Apple MAY be wrong in this (though I doubt it), but they aren't bad because of it.



    And you seem to be forgetting that there are PVR companies who do have products for the Mac. If this product becomes successful, there may be even more by the end of next year.



    Wonder what that USB port can do? Or the ones on the computers themselves? Why would anyone want to record programs on this is beyond me.



    Replay is a failure. It had a business model thar, hopefully, Apple learned not to repeat. That is, going against the content providers.
  • Reply 147 of 211
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,061member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea


    Nothing is free. Anyone that tells you otherwise is selling something. TiVO is not free. HD-DVRs from Comcast are not free. Building your own MythTV box isn't free. Watching "free" TV isn't free unless you don't value your time spent watching commercials. Heck, TV for many folks isn't free.







    If you don't like the service don't buy it. Simple enough. They aren't screwing you or removing your capability to buy from someone else. Folks the the RBOCs and Cable companies (with their tiered internet idea) are trying to do so. What do you TRUST those folks?







    Why? The only way TiVO gets into profitability this year is through a settlement with DISH. DVRs are great but not nearly as good as VOD. Why cling to an outmoded mechanism?



    Apple is finding the middle ground where content providers are willing to provide content in a manner that is profitable but not too onerous for the users. How many content providers using the ad models are going to be happy with widespread use of DVRs? None. SonicBlue was driven into bankruptcy by content providers annoyed with ReplayTV. The ReplayTV of today is the 3rd incarnation...is $99 and is software only. At least the EPG is only $20 a year.



    Vinea



    Right. I agree with that!
  • Reply 148 of 211
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DCQ


    True. It's silly to think back about what I thought about Apple, especially considering I'm probably more aware than most people of the "electronic sweatshop" in Asia that underpins the whole economic base of America's [sic] technological prowess.



    But that's what disillusionment is always like. As with any magician's trick, if you don't know how it's done, then it seems wonderful; once you see the trick, then it's impossible to ignore it.



    Other things I've grown disillusioned with:



    homeownership

    Netflix

    public Libraries

    local government

    state governments

    American democracy

    God

    pets

    Wikipedia

    Linux

    Pixar

    the free market

    regulated markets

    school boards

    cable TV (except adult swim)

    broadcast TV

    granola bars

    the basic decency of humanity

    the hope of a better world

    anti-perspirant



    ...just off the top of my head...



    Dude... am I glad that I am not you! Do you take pleasure in anything?
  • Reply 149 of 211
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross


    Apple isn't against their customers because they choose that road. They feel that it is the best way to go. You can disagree, that's fine, but it doesn't mean that Apple is doing something wrong.



    Gotta agree with you on this, and with Vinea's points also.



    Besides, the rise in self-created content by 12 to 24 year olds is astronomical. We are generating a content-creating generation who are facile at video construction from start to finish (they can edit, shoot and direct better than any other group in history). Apple has always been about self-generated content (be it GarageBand, or whatever), and this iTV could be a nice addition to that. Bring your laptop/wireless iPod/whatever to a friend?s house and show your latest music video on their TV, easy, clean, large-screen. There are so many more possibilities to the iTV than just DVR, which is quite limiting, in my opinion.
  • Reply 150 of 211
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mzaslove


    Gotta agree with you on this, and with Vinea's points also.



    Besides, the rise in self-created content by 12 to 24 year olds is astronomical. We are generating a content-creating generation who are facile at video construction from start to finish (they can edit, shoot and direct better than any other group in history). Apple has always been about self-generated content (be it GarageBand, or whatever), and this iTV could be a nice addition to that. Bring your laptop/wireless iPod/whatever to a friend?s house and show your latest music video on their TV, easy, clean, large-screen. There are so many more possibilities to the iTV than just DVR, which is quite limiting, in my opinion.





    Yes adding another feature will limit Apple. I couldn't have said it better.
  • Reply 151 of 211
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,061member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by onlooker


    Yes adding another feature will limit Apple. I couldn't have said it better.



    It isn't a feature. It's an entirely different product, and a different direction.



    And they are already available. We aren't losing anything other than the Apple logo.
  • Reply 152 of 211
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross


    It isn't a feature. It's an entirely different product, and a different direction.



    And they are already available. We aren't losing anything other than the Apple logo.



    And I agree again.



    If they did make a DVR, I wouldn't be against it... but the politics involved for Apple to do that are immense. They tightrope quite wonderfully between computers, distributors and gatekeepers. Steve being Apple/Disney now (Disapple? Apney?) stirs even more concerns at the studios. No one wants to look a gift horse in the mouth, but on the other hand, no one wants to put the fate of their future distribution into the hands of someone who can also be competition. Steve doesn't make music content, but in a way, he makes movies. They're walking very carefully (and quite successfully at the moment). iTV with a DVR could certainly work, but is that the future? Or is that just a hassle? Me, I'd rather see something different involved. I have a great DVR right now, and I don't need another one. What I don't have is something to stream content from my computer to anywhere I have a TV in the house. That'd be cool.
  • Reply 153 of 211
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross


    It isn't a feature. It's an entirely different product, and a different direction.



    And they are already available. We aren't losing anything other than the Apple logo.



    A different product? A product for use with your TV. Entirely different. Your right. I don't know how I could have associated the two.
  • Reply 154 of 211
    sjksjk Posts: 603member
    I can't help wondering if/when onlooker will realize how stubbornly myopic the "iTV will suck without a DVR" and related argument/viewpoint has become, especially in light of several well-reasoned responses from BRussell, melgross, mzaslove, TenoBell, vinea, et.al.
  • Reply 155 of 211
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    I gave up when onlooker accused Apple of separating us away from free TV.



    Most of us pay for cable and watch commercials. Technically we are paying twice.
  • Reply 156 of 211
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell


    I gave up when onlooker accused Apple of separating us away from free TV.



    Most of us pay for cable and watch commercials. Technically we are paying twice.





    And I would be first in line if I could cancel the cable and buy specifically the programs I wanted to watch, free of commercials.



    Free... yeah, right.
  • Reply 157 of 211
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,061member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by onlooker


    A different product? A product for use with your TV. Entirely different. Your right. I don't know how I could have associated the two.



    Very funny!



    Yes, a Tv tuner is a different product from a computer, or a wireless distribution hub.
  • Reply 158 of 211
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sjk


    I can't help wondering if/when onlooker will realize how stubbornly myopic the "iTV will suck without a DVR" and related argument/viewpoint has become, especially in light of several well-reasoned responses from BRussell, melgross, mzaslove, TenoBell, vinea, et.al.





    You can love Apple all you want for this. But your so called "well reason" is crap. I see no real reason in any of these responses. I think the whole idea is second rate, and makes Apple look like they are producing an easy bake oven. The only difference is this is not only a cheap idea, it is just all about buying every single bit of your content, and continue buying and buying more over. There is no just using the product on it's own. FV¢K I hate it, and everything it stands for. You guys can keep loving it, and talking like Apple has just astounded you again with this all day AFAIAC, but the real fact is this thing is nothing. It is just the ITMS with movies using an Airport/Airtunes delivery to your TV. Does it get any easier to screw you guys? Don't forget to breath.
  • Reply 159 of 211
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by onlooker


    The only difference is this is not only a cheap idea, it is just all about buying every single bit of your content, and continue buying and buying more over. There is no just using the product on it's own.



    This is just completely untrue. You can use iTV to play your camcorder-made videos (whether they're edited in iMovie or not), your synthesizer-made songs (whether they're edited in GarageBand or not), your cam-made photos (whether they're edited in iPhoto or not). You can use it to play the audio and video podcasts you subscribe to. You can play the videos you have downloaded through BitTorrent. Do I need to go on?



    Fine, iTV isn't a PVR, and for some, that is quite a limitation. But iTV is everything it claims to be: a solution to bringing your media on your computers to your TV. Your above claims simply don't hold true. You don't need to buy a single song or video on the iTunes store, nor can you not use the product on its own.
  • Reply 160 of 211
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by onlooker


    Yes adding another feature will limit Apple. I couldn't have said it better.



    Adding PVR is more than adding another feature.



    In order to turn iTV into a PVR, Apple would have to:

    ?*add two tuners (one for watching, another for recording)

    ?*provide these tuners in about half a dozen different standards (NTSC, ATSC, DVB-T, DVB-C, DVB-S, DVB-S, whathaveyou)

    ?*add a real-time encoding chipset

    ? make the UI significantly more complex

    ?*make the machine a lot bigger

    ?*increase the price to a more realistic $499, if not more, or more like $799 if you want HD.



    But hey, it's just "adding another feature"!
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