#2 I'm sure the toxic chemicals inside computers are a. not that bad and b. in much smaller quantities than the toxins that are released by cars, heavy machinery, nuclear power plants, i.e. EVERYTHING ELSE.
Pretty soon greenpeace is going to protest people pissing on trees.
Is Greenpeace talking about the same Apple Computer that just sent me an email this past week with a no-cost-to-me FedEx label inviting me to send them any old computers I might have lying around? The same Apple that said they would recycle these components in an environmentally friendly manner for free? I don't even have to contact them, just box up my stuff, show this label to my local FedEx office, and they'll take care of the rest?
Oh yeah, that's sound horrible. Apple is obviously a hateful, unfriendly, profit-gouging company that doesn't care one bit about anybody but themselves, no matter the damage it does to the environment.
The best part? They sent this email without my even having to request it! Talk about thoughtful and proactive...
You kow what I really think? No one "forced" Greenpeace out of the Expo, they just decided to grandstand and claim they were booted out to make the press pay more attention (which it obviously got suckered into doing) and then seeming like the underdog, valiantly claim they will face the dragon once more tomorrow, also knowing it would bring more people to the booth when they did.
Poor Apple is getting sucker-punched and put into a damned-if-you-do-and-damned-if-you-don't situation which makes them seem petty at worst and irresponsible at best.
APPLEINSIDER SUSPECTED OF NOT BACKING UP THEIR HEADLINES
There is not one item that I can find in either this report, or the Macnn report which backs up the headline blaming Apple for the problem. For the most part I've given up reading Macnn because of the sensationalism of their head lines. I had thought that Appleinsider was doing well to avoid this approach, but....
And, as been pointed out, this entire focus on Apple is primarily to gain donations for Greenpeace, not to address a major environmental issue.
Greenpeace is nothing but a bunch of far left socialist pigs who hate business in general.
In the US groups like Greenpeace abuse our freedoms in order to destroy our country and business in general.
"Yes save the whale, owl, and polar bear", screams Greenpeace but they are strangely silent when one asks them to stand against abortion and save a human life! Like all liberals thier doctrines are full of double standards.
Well, I was at the MacExpo in London today, and I noticed Greenpeace both giving out leaflets (and apples!) at the entrance, as well as their stand. I went there later in the day to find out more information but their stand was empty. That seems to suggest something happened - you're not going to leave your stand you paid money for, for nothing. Whether or not it was Apple, I don't know.
In response to a lot of the thoughtless, negative comments on this forum about what Greenpeace are doing, I happen to think that is a very informative, well run campaign. Looking at their website (www.greenpeace.org/apple) and the way they were conducting themselves at the Expo, they DO NOT come across as anti-Apple. In fact, as someone who owns Apple products I find they make good and challenging points, but in a way which says, 'as people who think Apple make great products, let's encourage them to do better environmentally as well', rather than 'we hate Apple' which is what some people seem to be suggesting they are saying.
Anyway, I encourage you to look at their website and think seriously about what they are saying instead of spouting out derogatory comments without thinking.
"Apple has been named a “Forward Green Leader,” one of the top ten environmentally progressive companies recognized by the Sierra Club and its investment advisor, Forward Management."
I think Apple should do this. No better yet, they should be the leading eco-terrorist group. Killing lumberjacks and blowing up their batteries in the faces of all those people in charge of land development for wal mart. C'mon Apple! Turn that iSight into an iLaser that makes people burn really slowly!
Eco-terrorism aside keep your greenpeace out of my white, silver, or black piece.
I remember reading somewhere a while back that it takes roughly the same amount of energy to produce a laptop as it does a small car. Crazy eh.
Not hard to belive when you consider all the different components that go into a laptop, all the shipping from around the world and so on.
Yet, computer companies don't have the same restrictions that automobile manufactures have when it comes to manufacturing and recycling.
So I do agree that we should step up pressure on computer manufacturers.
Oh, and to all you ass-clowns who are against environmental groups, get your head out of your ass, or the only tree you or your kids will be able to hug is with a gnome in Azeroth playing WoW.
I thought people here were smart enough to see the 'message' through the sometimes absurd actions and political games of these said organizations.
When dealing with an irrational world, somtimes one has to act irrational.
Myself, i'd like to see Apple make sure the companies building their components aren't dumping toxic chemicals into rivers and oceans.
I'm all for saving the environment, but I wouldn't spend more than a minute listening to Greenpeace. (When they come to my door, that's the amount of time I give them to tell me about their latest hot thing, before I send them away.)
I have too often come across mistruths and distortions by Greenpeace in order to advance some other agenda that they have. For them, it's usually about self-promotion, hype, and gathering donations than about thinking seriously and strategically about how to really improve the environment in a wholistic manner. They focus on minute things while ignoring the stuff that really harms the environment because it just happens to be politically hot or the company is in the news. They don't think through side effects and system effects.
Other environmental organizations are more balanced and thoughtful. Even the Sierra Club is better.
For the record I was being sarcastic in case anyone didnt get it. Apple should and has generally kept itself in check with the environmental concerns. I mean I'd love to see a solar powered computer that wasn't hideous in some way but thats not realistic. Maybe with all the money they've been making lately they can put that to more environmental research for at least their laptops.
Greenpeace is nothing but a bunch of far left socialist pigs who hate business in general.
In the US groups like Greenpeace abuse our freedoms in order to destroy our country and business in general.
"Yes save the whale, owl, and polar bear", screams Greenpeace but they are strangely silent when one asks them to stand against abortion and save a human life! Like all liberals thier doctrines are full of double standards.
It's good that Apple stood up to these nuts!
That sort of one sided thinking is a dangerous way to think. I'd suggest for the hope of human society to stop and think for a moment that you might not be the one whos correct on everything your passionate about.
I dunno if they are "astroturfing" but Apple does MUCH better than Dell or HP that Greenpeace touts as environmentally friendly.
Could you please give specific examples?
I agree that Greenpeace put way too much emphasis on removal of "toxic" chemicals from computers. Have they done any analysis whatsoever to find out what this does to the total amount of energy required to manufacture the computer, and then how long the computer will last?
However, Apple could do a much better job of recycling. In the U.S., it seems that they are doing a brilliant job. Not so much elsewhere in the world
And finally, I would agree with the few who have mentioned that Greenpeace are targeting the wrong people. It's governments you have to lobby.
I'm not sure either party is going about things 100% the right way towards each other, but I AM SURE of the following:
* Greenpeace is out to do good here--actual good intentions that benefit all of us. (They are not paid by MS )
* Apple should improve their environmental practices (and be applauded for what they've already done right)
* They are not alone, other companies should to0
* Apple is high-profile now, and part of the price of that is that you WILL be used as an example, by every journalist, blogger, or activist who wants attention. Because attention is what all of the above need (I am not judging this) and targeting Apple works.
* Greenpeace paid for their booth! And apparently were told to go without specific complaints to respond to?
* Greenpeace sometimes distorts/cherrypicks facts, just like every other cause out there, and I deplore this when it happens
* Even if Greenpeace is a criminal joint venture of the Mafia, Microsft, and Oscar the Grouch, blame Greenpeace but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater: the surrounding cause is a GOOD one and the issues are still important
A well balanced post - I heartily agree, Greenpeace is only trying to get publicity and improve Apple's environmental record. Apple, along with other companies, needs to be more environmentally friendly. Maybe I'll go to the Expo tomorrow as I have free tickets and see if Greenpeace have camped outside!
They should be allowed to have the booth they paid for. They should not disrupt other booths. One picture shows a GP person near the Apple booth handing out Apples - that is not right.
I'd like Apple to be greener. One way would be allowing more upgrades to products like the iMac - those screens outlive the logic board - no reason to toss them every 3 years.
Comments
I said Greenpeace is lying about the importance of the chemicals they claim are toxic.
Vinea
*shows props*
#2 I'm sure the toxic chemicals inside computers are a. not that bad and b. in much smaller quantities than the toxins that are released by cars, heavy machinery, nuclear power plants, i.e. EVERYTHING ELSE.
Pretty soon greenpeace is going to protest people pissing on trees.
Is Greenpeace talking about the same Apple Computer that just sent me an email this past week with a no-cost-to-me FedEx label inviting me to send them any old computers I might have lying around? The same Apple that said they would recycle these components in an environmentally friendly manner for free? I don't even have to contact them, just box up my stuff, show this label to my local FedEx office, and they'll take care of the rest?
Oh yeah, that's sound horrible. Apple is obviously a hateful, unfriendly, profit-gouging company that doesn't care one bit about anybody but themselves, no matter the damage it does to the environment.
The best part? They sent this email without my even having to request it! Talk about thoughtful and proactive...
You kow what I really think? No one "forced" Greenpeace out of the Expo, they just decided to grandstand and claim they were booted out to make the press pay more attention (which it obviously got suckered into doing) and then seeming like the underdog, valiantly claim they will face the dragon once more tomorrow, also knowing it would bring more people to the booth when they did.
Poor Apple is getting sucker-punched and put into a damned-if-you-do-and-damned-if-you-don't situation which makes them seem petty at worst and irresponsible at best.
Greenpeace is not very peaceful at all, are they?
There is not one item that I can find in either this report, or the Macnn report which backs up the headline blaming Apple for the problem. For the most part I've given up reading Macnn because of the sensationalism of their head lines. I had thought that Appleinsider was doing well to avoid this approach, but....
And, as been pointed out, this entire focus on Apple is primarily to gain donations for Greenpeace, not to address a major environmental issue.
It's easy to yell foul when you lay yourself down on the railroad tracks and no one is there to see you!!!
KMA Greenpeace
http://www.apple.com/education/shop/recycle
http://www.apple.com/environment/
What a bunch of BS.
It's easy to yell foul when you lay yourself down on the railroad tracks and no one is there to see you!!!
KMA Greenpeace
You mean like claiming a ship rammed you but the damage is on their side and on your bow?
Vinea
You mean like claiming a ship rammed you but the damage is on their side and on your bow?
Vinea
Exactly
In the US groups like Greenpeace abuse our freedoms in order to destroy our country and business in general.
"Yes save the whale, owl, and polar bear", screams Greenpeace but they are strangely silent when one asks them to stand against abortion and save a human life! Like all liberals thier doctrines are full of double standards.
It's good that Apple stood up to these nuts!
In response to a lot of the thoughtless, negative comments on this forum about what Greenpeace are doing, I happen to think that is a very informative, well run campaign. Looking at their website (www.greenpeace.org/apple) and the way they were conducting themselves at the Expo, they DO NOT come across as anti-Apple. In fact, as someone who owns Apple products I find they make good and challenging points, but in a way which says, 'as people who think Apple make great products, let's encourage them to do better environmentally as well', rather than 'we hate Apple' which is what some people seem to be suggesting they are saying.
Anyway, I encourage you to look at their website and think seriously about what they are saying instead of spouting out derogatory comments without thinking.
http://www.apple.com/environment/
Eco-terrorism aside keep your greenpeace out of my white, silver, or black piece.
oh and use solar power dammit
Not hard to belive when you consider all the different components that go into a laptop, all the shipping from around the world and so on.
Yet, computer companies don't have the same restrictions that automobile manufactures have when it comes to manufacturing and recycling.
So I do agree that we should step up pressure on computer manufacturers.
Oh, and to all you ass-clowns who are against environmental groups, get your head out of your ass, or the only tree you or your kids will be able to hug is with a gnome in Azeroth playing WoW.
I thought people here were smart enough to see the 'message' through the sometimes absurd actions and political games of these said organizations.
When dealing with an irrational world, somtimes one has to act irrational.
Myself, i'd like to see Apple make sure the companies building their components aren't dumping toxic chemicals into rivers and oceans.
Thats the message.
I have too often come across mistruths and distortions by Greenpeace in order to advance some other agenda that they have. For them, it's usually about self-promotion, hype, and gathering donations than about thinking seriously and strategically about how to really improve the environment in a wholistic manner. They focus on minute things while ignoring the stuff that really harms the environment because it just happens to be politically hot or the company is in the news. They don't think through side effects and system effects.
Other environmental organizations are more balanced and thoughtful. Even the Sierra Club is better.
Greenpeace is nothing but a bunch of far left socialist pigs who hate business in general.
In the US groups like Greenpeace abuse our freedoms in order to destroy our country and business in general.
"Yes save the whale, owl, and polar bear", screams Greenpeace but they are strangely silent when one asks them to stand against abortion and save a human life! Like all liberals thier doctrines are full of double standards.
It's good that Apple stood up to these nuts!
That sort of one sided thinking is a dangerous way to think. I'd suggest for the hope of human society to stop and think for a moment that you might not be the one whos correct on everything your passionate about.
I dunno if they are "astroturfing" but Apple does MUCH better than Dell or HP that Greenpeace touts as environmentally friendly.
Could you please give specific examples?
I agree that Greenpeace put way too much emphasis on removal of "toxic" chemicals from computers. Have they done any analysis whatsoever to find out what this does to the total amount of energy required to manufacture the computer, and then how long the computer will last?
However, Apple could do a much better job of recycling. In the U.S., it seems that they are doing a brilliant job. Not so much elsewhere in the world
And finally, I would agree with the few who have mentioned that Greenpeace are targeting the wrong people. It's governments you have to lobby.
I'm not sure either party is going about things 100% the right way towards each other, but I AM SURE of the following:
* Greenpeace is out to do good here--actual good intentions that benefit all of us. (They are not paid by MS
* Apple should improve their environmental practices (and be applauded for what they've already done right)
* They are not alone, other companies should to0
* Apple is high-profile now, and part of the price of that is that you WILL be used as an example, by every journalist, blogger, or activist who wants attention. Because attention is what all of the above need (I am not judging this) and targeting Apple works.
* Greenpeace paid for their booth! And apparently were told to go without specific complaints to respond to?
* Greenpeace sometimes distorts/cherrypicks facts, just like every other cause out there, and I deplore this when it happens
* Even if Greenpeace is a criminal joint venture of the Mafia, Microsft, and Oscar the Grouch, blame Greenpeace but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater: the surrounding cause is a GOOD one and the issues are still important
A well balanced post - I heartily agree, Greenpeace is only trying to get publicity and improve Apple's environmental record. Apple, along with other companies, needs to be more environmentally friendly. Maybe I'll go to the Expo tomorrow as I have free tickets and see if Greenpeace have camped outside!
I'd like Apple to be greener. One way would be allowing more upgrades to products like the iMac - those screens outlive the logic board - no reason to toss them every 3 years.