altivec88

Mike Wuerthele said:

Ironhead said:

Äpfelundbirnen said:

I'd be much more interested in a description of the reverse switch since I just bought a used Dell workstation for video and photo editing. I maxed it out with components I'd not even be able to put in a Mac, with the exception of an outdated Mac Pro. This is after 25 years of exclusive Mac usage. Back in the day the Mac was a serious offer for people like me. Nowadays I'd pay a multitude for an inferior Apple machine. It's probably my mistake to expect a smart phone company to deliver powerful stationary computers for creative professionals like I

That was my first thought.

I GUARANTEE that we aren't running any "Switching to Windows?" articles.

That's too bad.  Not sure why that is considered such a hostile request.  I was thinking the same thing as some of the others.  After 30+ years, this is the year we start transitioning over to the dark side (windows) and such an article would really help out some long time Mac users.   Does anyone know of a good site that is similar to Appleinsider but on the PC side of things?

Some of the comments on here are beyond ridiculous.  Guess what people, "Pro's" do different things.  Just because you are able to do your Pro things on a 1997 iMac does not mean every pro can.   Get over yourself as being the centre of the universe.  Others claiming that PC workstations cost the same or are more as a Mac is just plain wrong.  You can easily configure a 30+ core HP or Dell with modern graphics and faster DDR4 Ram for less than what you would pay for the antiquated 12 core MacPro.

There are a lot of good reasons to use Macs but making stuff up or insisting that nobody needs anything greater than an old iMac is not one of them.

TurboPGT said:

altivec88 said:

TurboPGT said:

altivec88 said:

I know that secrecy builds up suspense and stuff but for us Pro's, secrecy just means lack of communication with the company that is providing us with tools.

I just wish they would come out and tell us what is going on.  If they are planning an upgrade, can't they at least gives us an announcement to stay tuned and show us a grill or something.  If they have decided to get out of the pro market, can't they have the decency to just let us know.   I need to upgrade our systems.  Should I be switching to PC?  Should I be waiting a few more month?  I don't want to switch but I really can't operate my business like this anymore.  

Apple get your act together.

Just asking: how is it remotely possible that you "can't operate your business anymore" with a 2013 Mac Pro(s)? So much so that would consider a generic PC with presumably better specs-on-paper?

Because we do 3D renderings and require as much CPU as possible. The 2013 design did not help us out at all because they cut out an entire processor. So our 2010 12 core machines are pretty equivollent to the current 2013 machines at 12 cores only the 2013 cost twice as much. So we haven't upgraded most of our systems for 6 years. Some are starting to fail now and there is no way I would pay what Apple is asking for to replace them (double the price for 6 year old speed). This would be fine if the industry was sitting still but my competitors are easily surpassing what my company can do. They are running 44 core machines from Dell and HP. In rendering terms, that means what we can do in 10 hours, they can do in 2.5 hours. or it means they can crank up the realism, or a little of both. It was fine before because with-in a year Apple would be slightly ahead, and then the PC would be slight ahead but its been 6 years with no improvement in CPU. Like I said, I don't really want to switch to PC but I keep waiting and waiting and waiting.

Sounds horribly inefficient.

What you're telling me is that your operation is a Core Whore, and you've yet find to find a more efficient way of accomplishing the tasks, or more efficient software that can do the same job with less horsepower. But let's not even get into that.

There are machines out there built for what it is you are trying to do...DELL is one of the makers of them. Why on earth would you even expect Apple to tackle that market? It's not that Apple once made computers for your task....they once made the fastest computers any money could buy. That changed as hardware changed and as other companies took on certain priorities.

Don't expect Apple to make any 44 core Mac Pros. If that is what you're waiting on, move on.

Gee thanks... 

So if you can please show me this magical software that does 3D renderings with out utilizing CPU cores and how I've been doing it wrong for 30 years, please enlighten me and the rest of the 3D community.  I'm not even sure what you mean by "more efficient".  If the software is utilizing every core of your machine at 100%, isn't that efficient?  or do you mean we should stop what we are doing and only use our Pro's for word processing.

Thanks again for letting me know that Dell and HP offer 44 core systems and that the door is that way ->   I knew that... I put it in my post.   I also said that for the first 25 years  of those 30, the Mac platform was viable to what we are doing because the Mac and PC would leap frog each other by small margins.  Now the gap has widened tremendously.  This is why, I need to know what's going on.

In a professional setting, switching to PC is not an easy proposition.  We have people here that only know the Mac.  We have a lot of other software that is Mac only,  the costs, training and down time makes it difficult.   We also chose MacOS when we started because of all the problems associated with Windows.  We don't want to give that up either.  So if I know a new MacPro is coming, its much better to wait then to switch.   If they decide to discontinue the Pro or make another lame update, I have no choice.  All I am saying that after 1000 days give us pros some respect and at least tell us what is going on.

freeper said:

As Amazon refuses to sell Apple TV (or Chromecast) products that compete with the awful Fire TV, I am not certain that an Alexa competitor by Apple would have been sold by Amazon either. 

I agree... But some of those that wanted a home type of device like this that would have chose Apple are now in the Amazon Eco system.  Lets face it, Apple is the new Microsoft.  Big Goliath thats slow to react to anything.  They just can't walk and chew gum anymore.  They can only update the iPhones yearly, the rest of their lineup is either a nuisance and gets cancelled or just a hobby that gets updates every 3 to 4 years.  Meanwhile Tim has been talking about amazing pipelines while other companies are selling actual products.  I remember a time when the opposite was true (ahh the good old days)

Pretty easy solution.  Epic can continue their lawsuit while following the same rules they followed for a decade. What’s a few more years until it gets sorted out in the courts. In fact they can even sue to get back all Apple charges retrospective from this point if they are successful. Which they won’t be. 

I know that secrecy builds up suspense and stuff but for us Pro's, secrecy just means lack of communication with the company that is providing us with tools.

I just wish they would come out and tell us what is going on.  If they are planning an upgrade, can't they at least gives us an announcement to stay tuned and show us a grill or something.  If they have decided to get out of the pro market, can't they have the decency to just let us know.   I need to upgrade our systems.  Should I be switching to PC?  Should I be waiting a few more month?  I don't want to switch but I really can't operate my business like this anymore.  

Apple get your act together.

hexclock said:

ireland said:

Non-symmetrical is insane.

That line struck me as well. Is it shaped like a T-bone steak or what?

Add me to the list of thinking, are they crazy.  People had enough problems fumbling around and force pushing the smaller USB connectors in.   Now they want to make something even smaller that's not symmetrical.   You're going to have to buy a magnifying glass to know which way to put these things in and if you want to try to do it in the dark, forget about it.

The good news is that once everyone gets the peripherals, dongles, and cables for this needless port,  Apple can say, Jony spent years in the labs and designed a new  version of this needless port which is now symetrical, one micron thinner and made of aluminum.   We can then go out and replace the peripherals, dongles and cables we just bought a few years back.  It really keeps the economy going.  Thanks Apple.

Call me crazy, but why can't they just update the lightning cable port spec to include analog audio, if that's what this is really about.   I mean, the USB standard was upgraded several times using the same USB-A connector,  why can't they do this with the lighting connector and maybe a specialized cable.  Why are they going backwards with a non symmetrical port?

dasanman69 said:

JMaille said:

When are people going to realize this isn’t about reducing the cost to consumers, this is about getting as much money out of consumers as they possibly can.  Epic and the other companies that are protesting the “Apple Tax” aren’t trying to eliminate or even reduce the cost of being in the App Store for themselves.  What they are trying to do is force Apple, either through their own decision, through the courts, or through legislation, to change the way they charge developers for being in the App Store.  They want to do away with the competition from free apps.  They want Apple to change to an approach where any developer that wants to put an app in the App Store has to pay for it, which in turn will eliminate almost all free apps and almost all developers they may have to compete with.  Or better yet, they want to force Apple to allow, or be force to allow, alternate App Stores on every single IOS device so they can stop having to live with the privacy restrictions Apple forces on them.  Then they can get to what they really want, harvesting user data so they can make the user what they think all users should be – the product rather than the customer.

Sorry but you are wrong. Epic did lower the price by 20% if purchased through the online payment system. For instance, 1,000 V-bucks, which is roughly equivalent to $10 in-game Fortnite currency, now costs just $7.99. 

You are very naive if you think that's the case.   This is a stunt to get consumers on their side and nothing more.  If Apple was out of the picture, there is no way they would discount the price.  Why would any company lose out on extra money.   If the market was willing to pay $10 before, why would they lower it for you.  You really think they are nice guys and don't care about making as much money as they can.   Maybe if they make another stand and get rid of other costs such as employee coffee breaks, they will pass that on to us customers too.  Looking forward to it being $6.99

therunningvm said:

calebbenbekke said:

I am a pro user since 2000 and i believe Apple's story became unbelievably self centered, egostistical, no longer "havin a dream" to create greatest products but continuing the milking process of people who wants to show off. Well, i can not believe that i say this (even to my self) but with this non-professional attitude, i am out of Apple's citizenship. 
What is this?
Compare Dell or HP to a Mac Pro? I mean is this a joke?
Compare Alienware to Mac Book Pro?

I am missing the days we had Final Cut and FC Library, Shake.. even QT Pro, even Pages 9.
Now we have bunch of non sense crApple. They are supposedly updated but for any pro user they were seriously downgraded.
And the sad part is Adobe CS not great either for Professional updates.
What, microsoft? God no. Google? Nope, definitely not.
God help us. 

And we pros loved Apple, we made Apple what it is.
Now, Apple lost us! 

Misdirected anger much?
First, del and Hp are not any faster then the mac pro at all.
The race for speed ended in 2012, when cpuS could no longer get any faster, and only chipset upgrades were remaining.

And why are you compering a gaming laptop to a desktop replacement?

Misinformed much

I just don't get why some people feel so compelled to tell other people what they need.  Because you don't need CPU power doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't need it.  I've been on Mac since 84,  I have built a fairly large business doing 3D renderings on Macs and in 30 years I have never seen the Mac line up in such despair.  The term bleeding Pro mac users is an excellent description as I see it happening all around me.

First off, No, the speed race did not end in 2012.  For Macs, it ended in 2010.   the 12 core macs we purchased then are what we still use today.  The 2013 MacPros were stripped of a whole processor so all they accomplished for people that needed CPU is to double the price and keep the performance the same at 12 cores.  We bought one machine just to test it out and we were disappointed so we have waited for years with cash in hand.  Now here we are 6 years later with the same performance level.  So I can completely understand the frustration levels of pro users because I myself am beyond frustrated.

Where you are wrong is the race only stopped for Macs.  The Xeon was upgraded twice over the past 3 years.  Apple is stuck on providing generation 2 cpus that maxed out at 12 cores while HP and Dell are selling fourth generation dual 22 cores (44 cores total).  Apple is not competing on price, they are not competing on performance, they are not competing on upgradability.   Who in the world would buy a Mac Pro.  I think Tim Cook is putting all his eggs in the phone basket and has no understanding of the Apple culture.  Once he bleeds away all his loyal users all that will be left is another phone company.  Just like the infallible Motorola and Nokia.

Soli said:

altivec88 said:

Soli said:

crowley said:

Soli said:

altivec88 said:

Sorry Timmy, your continued lies about "road maps, pipelines, and pros are important to us" don't match your actions.

You're claiming has no plans about future products (road maps) or products that will be ready to be released in the near future (pipeline)?

Your definition of near future?

[irrelevant image]

So because the Mac Pro hasn't been updated in a ridiculously long time that means that Apple is doing absolutely NOTHING? You're also claiming Apple has zero plans for any future products and will have no products coming out this year that will be used a single professional? Do you really want to make such a stupid claim? How about giving Tim Cook some help by saying that he should take people off landscaping duty at Apple Park so they can get back to working on the next Mac Pro?¡

What are you even talking about.  I don't care if Apple is making iPhones, doing a lot of great things, landscaping their campus or what ever.   All I care about is what affects my company.  We are talking about Pro Desktops and only about Pro Desktops.  HP and Dell have updated their workstations twice in that time which means my competitors using PC are far ahead of what we have.  44 core Xeon E5's, modern graphic cards, DDR4 Ram, tons of expansion....  

Did I say Apple is a bad company.  NO, I didn't.  They are doing fantastic in many areas.  Unfortunately for me, they are not in the areas that I need.  Apple is not catering to the Pro market so Tim's words are complete crap to me.  HP and Dell will be releasing their 3rd update soon.  I can not afford to have my company die waiting for Apple.  We badly require additional machines and have machines that need to be replaced It will be hell in high water before I buy their current joke of machine at the prices they are asking.  I don't really care what your opinion is, bottom line is Apple will soon be loosing another long time Mac using company.

I'm talking about your exact words. You stated quite clearly that Tim Cook has been LYING about having an road maps for the company and LYING about there being pipeline. All of these things are clearly false, yet you still made the claim.

Even if you were making unsubstantiated claims that Tim Cook is making promises to you, you're current reasoning that "HP created a machine that had this and that" is not a reasonable argument that Apple should be copying everything HP is doing. Just because they bought HP's HQ doesn't mean they need to become HP.

I get it, you want something specific and you're not getting your exact needs met. You may even want 64 GiB of non-LPDDR RAM in a Mac notebook that uses a desktop CPU and brings back the HDD because you like the higher capacity for less money over the reliability, size and performance of an SSD. That's fine! You can "wish for" whatever you want, but when you start making claims that a CEO is LYING to you and then trying making silly claims that there are no road maps or products in the pipeline, you sound like a deranged child.

My suggestion to you—and with everyone else not happy with how a corporation chooses to conduct business legally—is to choose another company that best suits your needs. For example, I'd love to use this app with my Mac but Apple has removed SNMP support from their latest AEBS for reasons I can't begin to understand. That means I have to deal with the current AEBS or buy a router from a different vendor—but there is no crying on a fucking message board about how Tim Cook has forsaken you.

Dude.  this is clearly over your head.

If you think updating to the latest Xeon E5 Chip or using graphic cards that are not 4 years old, or using the latest fastest ram, Adding TB3.  All things that are critical to the pro market is copying, you don't have a clue.  This is 100% neglect and nothing else.

Again, you bring up a strawman argument and change the subject claiming that I may even want LPDDR Ram in a notebook which I've never ever stated.  I clearly emphasized to you that this is about the MacPro and only the MacPro,  because that's what I require and that is what I am commenting about today.  So again, stop bring up how great Apple is at everything else because that is great for everyone else.  I am on topic commenting about the lie Tim cook stated in this article "The pro area is very important to us. The creative area is very important to us in particular."  which is something I am very experienced with and live every day

To be extra clear:
 
Tim Cook = "The pro area is very important to us. The creative area is very important to us in particular."
MacPro = 1167 Days
Translation = Lies.

Thanks for your suggestion though.  Even though I already stated we will be choosing another company that actually believes "the pro market is very important to them" by you know, actions, instead of words.   I just hope you remember that you supported this incompetence when the Mac no longer has developers feeling its worthwhile making pro software.

Beats said:

elijahg said:

fastasleep said:

Beats said:

telepathy2000 said:

No law in the country can force Apple to do business with Epic on the App Store. I’m kinda hoping Apple dig in their heels and just never let them come back in. Fads come and go, Fortnite May have gone the way of Angry Birds by the time all this is over. 

And had Apple taken gaming seriously a decade ago they would have wiped Epic from the face of the Earth. I wanna see Apple create a unified Apple Engine for game developers.

Some of us don't want to see Unreal Engine go away. What you guys are missing is that part of the reason we have so many games on macOS/iOS is because Unreal Engine and Unity will *also* compile for those platforms on top of Windows/Linux/XBox/Playstation/Android. Not to mention the amount of realtime film production now being done using Unreal and other XR, animation, previz, etc applications outside of gaming altogether. 

Anyway, losing the Mac userbase is very little concern for Epic, it's probably less than 1% of their revenue.

"If the Unreal Engine can no longer support Apple platforms, the software developers that use it will be forced to use alternatives. The damage to Epic’s ongoing business and to its reputation and trust with its customers will be unquantifiable and irreparable. Preliminary injunctive relief is necessary to prevent Apple from crushing Epic before this case could ever get to judgment.”

-Epics attorney

Apple is not banning Unreal Engine,  Epic is choosing to leave the platform because they no longer wish to follow the decade old rules.  Apple has offered them to come back with open arms as long as they follow the rules that everyone else follows.  If Epic continues this path of leaving by their own accord, as you wrote, software developers will be forced to alternatives or leave the platform entirely damaging Apple's reputation and trust with its customers.  Preliminary injunctive relief is not necessary because it is already available.  They can continue doing business by following the rules that they've been following and still proceed with court.  What are you expecting the courts to say.  They should be allowed to break the rules for the years this is going to take.  Right now it's Epic that is in breech and they hold all the cards to decide the path going forward.

- Apples attorney