Madtiger

Seth2015 said:

A cross platform benchmark isn't dead accurate. I've already told you why and given an example - unsure why you're missing it?

My i5 at home, I can install Linux and run a benchmark - let's say I get 12,000 little numbers on the screen. I now install Windows 10 on the same chip and get a 10,000. So for those that are slightly slower here (I'm looking at your madtiger) this is the same chip with a different result depending on the OS layer. 

iOS is really efficient OS. It doesn't have the extra bloatware that Android has once a manufacture has got hold of it and put on their own skin. A fair comment would be the chip + OS is delivery these awesome figures ... but to pretend the A11 streets ahead of the Kirin 780 is just silly bias on your side. It really is the combination of the two

And lastly, numbers on the screen aren't going to tell you the real world user performance. Yes - the iPhone s quick and smooth ... but my Mate 20 Pro is just the same. I've had zero issues with regards to speed ... but I guess I place more emphasis on real world than numbers on the screen ?  

Your comment was that the devices run different OSes. True. However you say that means that the tests are invalid, which isn't true. 

So the kernel is the first item. The kernel performs several tasks relevant to our tests: Tasking scheduling, RAM management and IO. We can assume that the first is negligible as there is only one high priority tasking running, the benchmark itself. The exception is during the multi-core tests. The question is does one OS provide a significant performance boost over the other due to its scheduling of threads. No, it doesn't. For proof of this we can look further afield to Linux and macOS in general. Will there be a difference, sure, but not enough to bias the results.  OS architecture affects performance when the program makes a system call. Geekbench and Antutu, though they have subtests that test system calls, are mostly looping common tasks that are confined to userspace and really just runs on bare metal. They don't touch the kernel.

Next screen resolution. This of course is a factor for GPU tests. For Geekbench it is completely irrelevant. For AnTuTu it is indeed a factor, however AnTuTu has also altered its loads to include off screen rendering. Also, the screen resolutions of the devices under test are similar, not the same, but similar. So, overall nothing here, please move along.

Up next is RAM. Well RAM isn’t part of the OS and it is actually part of the subsystem that we want to test. The differences in RAM performance are important to us, hence running the benchmarks in the first place. If you mean RAM management then that is a part of the kernel as I mentioned earlier. If the tests are doing lots of dynamic memory requests, asking for RAM from the OS and then returning it, then you would be correct. This would exercise the OS much more than the hardware. However, that is not what the tests do.  Display and RAM...Geekbench is an off-screen app. It doesn't push anything that the display resolution would affect. RAM might be an issue but it seems Geekbench fits well within the RAM of both devices just fine.

Now we come to storage. It is indeed true that Geekbench contains IO related tests and it is also true that these do have a heavier OS reliance than the other tests. However two things to note. 1) Is that the tests are the same on both operating systems (i.e. using SQLite) and they aren’t specific aimed directly at the native filesystem. 2) While I agree that a bias dependent on the performance of the filesystem will exist, the question is will that biases be more than the performance characteristics of the hardware. Tough question. I will go with no, because the same tests run on different generations of the same platform (say the iPhone 7S compared to the iPhone 8 compared to the X) show the same relative performance increase as observed across platforms. In other words, if the processor under test shows performance gain X on iOS compared to iOS, but a very different relative performance gain on iOS to Android then something is wrong. However, we don’t see that.

One more things to mention.The tests from Geekbench and AnTuTu are written in C, so there is no comparison of the Java Runtime library with Obj-C/Swift etc.

The only real variable is the CPU governor and power throttling schemes. That can indeed affect performance from device to device, not just OS to OS. But Geekbench at least already has that taken into consideration. It has built-in "cooldown" periods when it detects CPU throttling.

Finally, cross platform benchmarking is used all across the industry as a way to test hardware while minimizing the impact of the OS. Well known examples including tests like SPECint.

dblanch369 said:

well, they should definitely pull the google app then. and safari. oh, and Firefox and definitely Edge. If you're gonna take it upon yourself to "police" the app store, then be consistent all around.

Quikkmaffs said:

Who cares about fortnite? Are the people reading this 11 years old? the iPhone is trash for its pricing. At least it has a better camera. (stop trying to say iPhone is better, it isnt) And I'd agree the OnePlus 6 with a google camera app takes way better photos than a brand new 1200 dollar iPhone. It makes me so furious that people pay for such a wasted product. Even the OP6 I feel is expensive at 500.

Seth2015 said:

I think Apple need to start spending money elsewhere, tbh.

They have this amazing fast chip - but lack on everything else?

Maybe beef up that camera ... or a larger battery ... or change the charging system ... up the screen resolutions ... do something! In real world user experience, there's little between the A11/A12 and the flagship Androids. 

JP234 said:

An Apple branded savings account is just a savings account. The only reason I have a bank savings account is for the discount on our safe deposit box, and free services like counting our coins, cashing checks from Facebook, Honda and other settlements, and notary public service. I fail to see how that would be implemented by an Apple online savings account.

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

tmay said:

avon b7 said:

Madtiger said:

avon b7 said:

ericthehalfbee said:

avon b7 said:

ericthehalfbee said:

avon b7 said:

clarker99 said:

Do the majority of Apple users even care what Android OEM’s are doing? (And vice versa?)

It's an industry thing. We need to look past platform specifics and see what's happening on a wider level.

People care when they are asked to pay high prices and certain features are missing but available on competing phones. In fact they even care when paying far less. Often you want the best deal possible for the price you pay, irrespective of platform.

The S10 is the Samsung iPhone X (ten year phone) and is supposed to be a key release. We'll see what it brings to the table but competition (P30 Pro) is going to be fierce.

MWC will bring a heap of announcements.

MWC will bring nothing new. It will all be minor incremental updates to existing technology that people will blow out of proportion as to their relevance. Then when the iPhone comes out with its incremental updates in the fall it will be criticized for lack of innovation.

- We’ll get newer OLED screens in a few new sizes/resolutions, but none of them will be calibrated for color accuracy so they’re all pointless.
- We’ll get newer slightly faster (but still inferior to Apple) processors which will mean nothing because Android Apps are a joke and none of them can utilize those processors anyway.
- We’ll get a bunch of new tablets with 1-2 year old processors that still won’t be able to compete with the iPad along with the same unoptimized phone Apps blown up to fit.
- We’ll get new Chromebooks that most Android Apps still won’t work properly on and still limited by the lack of serious Apps for Chrome.
- We’ll get Windows on ARM laptops that are still slow and are still limited as to what types of Apps they can run.

Oh, and everything mobile will be on Android so there won’t be anything new to see on the software side,

Not long to wait:

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/huawei-p30-pro-camera-more-details-leak-and-its-all-about-the-10x-zoom-and-3d-sensors

https://www.gizmochina.com/2019/01/24/huawei-announces-balong-5000-5g-modem-with-up-to-6-5-gbps-5g-speeds-in-china/

https://www.xda-developers.com/huawei-foldable-5g-smartphone-mwc-2019/

'Nothing new' doesn't sit well with the above rumours. Throw in Samsung announcements, IoT developments and all the 5G progress and things look quite interesting.

Nope, nothing new. How can something be “new” when you’re able to link to article with details? I don’t think you understand what “new” really means.

5G? Yawn. Let me know when it will be usable by more than a fraction of the population. And whose networks are they going to access with their modem since Huawei is having a hard time getting companies/countries to install their spy gear?

MWC is going to be a big bore with lots of promises but few realized.

The links are to - rumours - except for the Balong5000 presentation which is from today and was the - MWC2019 pre-briefing.

It's all part of official the MWC build up and is just the core technology of some aspects. No one has any idea about how that will be used. For that we have to wait for the fair itself.

Balong5000 is far from yawn worthy. Out of the gate it is making the X50 look quite limited in its scope. A complete, ready to market, power efficient, low latency, multimode, V2X ready, Kirin980 compatible solution.

They have already signed 30 carrier deals and shipped thousands of new 5G base stations. Obviously China will see most of the tent pole features first but somewhere along the line users of the supposed 5G S10 variant will reap the benefits, as competing 5G backbone solutions are said to be around a year behind what Huawei is actually shipping today.

Huawei 5G...irrelevant.  I lost count now how many countries are on the list to ban Huawei stuff.  Almost everyday, a new Western country considering banning Huawei crap.

You lost count after how many? 

Huawei has already signed 30 carrier deals and is shipping thousands of 5G base stations. That is hardly irrelevant. As for being crap, can you name anyone in the 5G industry that has better products? It's not me who says competitors are behind, it is carriers and industry watchers.

https://www.ft.com/content/0531458a-fd6c-11e8-ac00-57a2a826423e

Politics more than technology, no?

https://www.greyb.com/companies-working-on-5g-technology/

There are plenty of companies working on 5G, and to look at the patents that these companies generate, it would appear the Qualcomm exceeds any other company by a wide margin, including Huawei. That doesn't mean much, but it does suggest that your post that Huawei makes better products than any other is bullshit. Huawei often has the lowest prices, hence why various countries that are banning Huawei telecom are expecting to see cost increases for 5G buildout. 

France has decided against allowing Huawei to buildout 5G, and Germany is likely to ban Huawei as well, likely of benefit to Nokia, Ericsson and others in Europe. The Chinese spy found in Huawei's "employ" in Poland may have an effect on any 5G buildout there.

Huawei is ahead in real product development. See link above and see clains from carriers affirming that using non Huawei gear would be like adding a year to roll outs.

Just look at how far ahead Huawei is on the modem side (yesterday's Balong5000 presentation).

From the FT link above and citing a US official on the state of 5G with regards to Chinese technology:

"We're losing it"

So, assuming that countries that ban Huawei are a year behind, so what. There's so little buildout today, that it isn't going to be an issue, and as other suppliers ramp up, that "head start" that Huawei has won't make any difference.

I'm sure that Huawei will do very well in Spain though...

As for the modem, again, so what.

It's also cheaper. That alone might be enough to put operators in rural America out of business as many depend on Huawei gear.

'so what' on the modem? Look one step ahead. As soon as the hardware gets deployed, applications for the technology can be developed. 5G has such enormous scope that being first to market means far more than consumer side benefits. The Balong 5G is even V2X compliant. From there it will just get better.

That's why the US is doing everything it can (and then some!) to derail Huawei. The politics of a powershift in tech. Hence that comment: 'we're losing it' in reference to the US falling behind in such a key area.

The US even went so far as to claim that it didn't need to provide evidence of what it was claiming on Huawei. That says a lot about how things are going.

Here's an example of China attempting to subvert laws regarding U.S. Technology transfer;

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/25364/boeing-nixes-satellite-deal-amid-concerns-the-u-s-buyer-was-a-chinese-government-front?iid=sr-link5

Boeing says it has canceled a controversial satellite order from a U.S.-based startup, which had received the bulk of its funding from a Chinese-government owned financial company. The deal, which critics warned could give China access to sensitive technology, comes amid a period of especially acrimonious relations between Washington and Beijing over a host of issues, including industrial espionage and intellectual property theft.

The Chicago-headquartered aerospace company announced its decision, which it said was only because of non-payment on the part of the customer, to nix the deal, worth more than $200 million, on Dec. 6, 2018. Two days earlier, the Wall Street Journal had published an expose detailing the links between the official buyer, Global IP, and a string of Chinese government operated entities and individuals with significant connections to China’s Communist Party and military establishment.

“When we resigned over a year ago, we informed Boeing of the reasons for our decision,” Emil Youssefzadeh, one of Global IP’s founders, told the Journal, referring to concerns about China's involvement and a hope that the company would be able to shake off worrisome Chinese government influence. “It’s unfortunate that this did not happen at the time.”   

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-maneuvers-to-snag-top-secret-boeing-satellite-technology-1543943490?&mod=article_inline&mod=article_inline

There is no Corporation with independence of the Chinese Government, the Communist Party, or the PLA, hence why this deal fell through, and the many democracies that are banning Huawei telecom. Your naivete about National Security concerns isn't winning you any arguments.

Huawei is not China. 

wonkothesane said:

Madtiger said:

wonkothesane said:

So, what do you think about when you take a picture of your child? Who’s the most important subject of a shot when you just want to snap a pic of your kid? Ah. Yours. Pretty normal, isn’t it? Unless of course you intend to take a photo of your kids together with friends. 
The fact that Jacob’s mother draws the conclusions about intention and hate is IMO a superb allegory about today’s society. Like gender discussions etc.: the fact that I don’t explicitly put you in the foreground doesn’t automatically imply I dispose you/don’t respect you etc. But that’s today’s heresy. Any idiot can claim discrimination while it simply all starts in your head. Both, the fact that she states this accusations tells more about herself - as usually people draw co cousin a based on their own behavioral patterns - in other words: it’s what she would do and therefore it must be the same when she observes something like this with somebody else. Secondly, if you search for discrimination you’re likely gonna g to find evidence anywhere. 

WTF?!?!  I mean WTF?!

Care to elaborate?