feudalist

rob53 said:

Here we go again, someone who knows next to nothing about how rechargeable batteries work. Why is it nobody cares about all their battery operated devices needing new batteries? We hardly ever hear about those but everyone is complaining about Apple's batteries as if they expect them to last forever.

Mike Wuerthele said:

One more time on the switch.

1) The throttling isn't permanent. It's only in-place during the active low-voltage situation.

"Amid mounting criticism over Apple's decision to throttle older iPhones to keep them running smoothly"

Oposite: in order to keep them running at all; throtled iPhone's are not smooth by any meeasure.

Rayz2016 said:

feudalist said:

foggyhill said:

feudalist said:

rob53 said:

Here we go again, someone who knows next to nothing about how rechargeable batteries work. Why is it nobody cares about all their battery operated devices needing new batteries? We hardly ever hear about those but everyone is complaining about Apple's batteries as if they expect them to last forever.

If forever means 2-3 years usefull life out of 800 to 1000 USD priced phone, yes we are not expecting but requesting that.

Right... I suppose you throw a away your car instead of changing the tires, or the battery in your car
no matter the usage, no matter the conditions you used / use them in huh bud.

I like this analogy and I will take it little further. So, if it happens that manufacturer used special bolts only accesible in manufacturer aproved service stations, of course without any warranty whatsoever but you will loose warranty for car if you make change in nearest garage, and they are prone to sudden loss of pressure unrelated to use/abuse before they are fully worn-out, what would be your expectation about longevity?

Then I would say you’re driving a Toyota Prius because those are the conditions of their warranties.

How do I know? 

I drive one and I’ve actually read the warranty.

If I take it back to the dealership (and if I take it anywhere other than a proper Toyota garage then the warranty is cancelled), I cannot tell them that the battery has failed “and it’s not related to use and abuse” and expect them to take my word for it. They will examine the car to see exactly what I have been doing with it. 

The same with a phone. There is no point trying to say that battery died too early because you have no idea how much the phone was used, what it was used for, and how many charge cycles the battery had to endure as a result. 

The life of the battery depends more on the number of times it is charged than its actual physical age. And Apple goes to a great deal of trouble to ensure that battery is not charged more than it has to be. But in the end, the life of the battery is down to how you use the phone. 

Where I live, if a taxi is not a black cab then the chances are it is a Prius. They’re cheap to run around town, but more importantly, they’re reliable. And the reason they’re reliable and last far longer than the life of the battery is because they’re well made, and the control system prevents you from thrashing the life out of the engines. 

Incidently, the battery on a Prius is not covered by the same warranty as the rest of the car. 

Its not the fastest car I’ve ever owned, but it is easily the most comfortable and reliable. Worst car I’ve ever owned was a Golf. Volkswagen must have seem me coming. 

StrangeDays said:

feudalist said:

foggyhill said:

adm1 said:

this is all very well and good, but still misses the point of why this only became a "thing" from the iPhone 6 onwards. Why did iPhone 3/3G/4/4S/5/5S batteries last for several years without problems? iPhone 6 onward only seem to last 1-2years before suffering battery related issues? Are the phones now too powerful for lithium-ion tech to keep up with? 

Because those SOC needed less peak performance than the latest ones, a bigger battery alone does not solve this.

Having higher peak performance also means more heat and that also has an impact on batteries.

Apple has sort of mitigated this by in fact overhauling power management apparatus of the Iphone 8 and X (which is in fact again... "throttling" and babbying the batteries, that's what power management is doing except it will now be doing straight from the start and will thus be baked into the initial performance of the device) AND in creating smaller cores to handle tasks that don't require immediate response (so limiting the draw on the battery)

Other companies like Samsung started to be hit a bit later (after the Iphone 6) cause their SOC were not as powerful and they were using multi-core already. But, in the last two years in has emerged there too and unless they put some work they'll have shutdowns all over the place.

And yes, the problem is the battery technology has not kept up with how powerful those pocket computers are.

They'd need some tech that is more resilient to high loads and heat and not just more energy dense, though that would help too.

Another issue is USAGE of those powerful devices have changed, people in the 3GS days did a lot less thing on their phones than now, there were less Apps (the app store was pretty new) and the apps that existed had less capability. Most people didn't keep their GPS on all the time, which is the case now. Apple had strong limitations on background apps that don't exist now.  Video usage on phones was lower, music streaming was emergent, few used it..

Interconnection opportunities have exploded through blue tooth (headphones, Apple Watch, Speakers, beacons, home automation)  or WIFI (airplay, homekit, etc, AppleTV).

Finally, because those devices are so damn powerful, people don't feel a need to upgrade as quickly than before, so the heaviest users (charging say twice a day) that WOULD have been hit by these things before but had already moved on to a new phone by then, now are keeping their phones.

Those heavy users are using their phones even more heavily.and intensely on phones that have gotten much more powerful and want to keep those phones longer, it's obvious a hell of a lot of people will have depleted batteries after 12-18 months than before because battery tech has barely moved.

For many people, that are not heavy, intense users, the phones will still last 24-36 months before requiring a battery change. In the old days, most people would have changed their phones by year 3. But, now those "normal" users are keeping their phones and thus they will be hit before they buy their next phone, somewhere in year 3-4.

It's like people got used to not changing their batteries because of the fast upgrade cycles (the people that got their phones undoubtedly knew they needed to change that battery and there were battery change shops everywhere to do it).

As for pre 6 not running into this, I did run into this, but a bit later, usually if you kept your phone more than 3 years on those less powerful phones. I had to change my 3GS battery at year 4 cause it was always dying, especially if it was even slightly cold outside.

This is not about battery tech per se or changed user habits but about wrong compromise apple maked. 

Battery response curve to instantenous power draw is regulated by amount of electrolyte. Yes, it’s that simple. But, higher amount in given volume will result in lower capacity and you know the rest. 

And this talk about ageing and consumable angle is just PR BS to avoid costly recall. Read this: https://www.macworld.com/article/1058916/smartphones/iphonebattery.html

read it as: don’t wory, non replaceable battery is just fine. Now is not so, ur expected to change because battery IS consumable item. Which way is, dear Apple?

What a load of nonsense. 

Yes, rechargeable batteries are, and have always been, consumable. Even old iPods had battery replacement services. You just didnt care back then because you didnt use the devices as intensely as we use them today. EOS.

Next!