Kamirose

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Kamirose
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  • The real story behind MagSafe, USB-C PD, and why you need a 20W AC charger

    "When the MagSafe Charger negotiates for power it specifically looks for the 9V x 2.22A supply, which is only present in 20W PD 3.0 adapters"

    This is incorrect. With the rules used by PD 3.0, the amperage is only the *maximum* it is able to provide. 9V/3A, which is a standard profile in any charger able to provide 27W or higher, isn't required to only provide 3A, it can also provide less than that, anywhere from 0 to 3. Which means it also provides 2.2a if requested by the device. This is shown in the graph you inserted in the USB Power Profiles section.

    Edit: I worded this poorly, my intent is to clarify that 20w exactly is not required and that higher is okay too as long as it supports 9V/3A (which is standard). I've removed mention of PD 2.0 since I'm not trying to say that PD 3.0 is not required.
    jdb8167svanstromdarkvadergatorguytwokatmew
  • The real story behind MagSafe, USB-C PD, and why you need a 20W AC charger

    citpeks said:
    Kamirose said:
    A video by Alvin Lim on youtube shows him pulling the same current as an apple 20w brick on two different third party PD 3.0 bricks, one being 120w and the other being 65w. Both support the 9V/3A standard output that any compliant USB brick 27w or over will provide.

    Can you provide the link?  I don't doubt that there are adapters available now that do work, and there will eventually be more.  But sorting the wheat from the chaff will still be a work in progress, until products with assured compatibility with the 20W level become more prevalent.

    And there is still the slim possibility that Apple could alter the rules, and retroactively handicap shipped products, as it did with iOS 7 and Lightning cables, or the "7.5W" non-EPP Qi chargers with 13.1.  One could argue that the latter was a matter of closing a loophole, but that doesn't help the users who find that their chargers won't charge as fast as before due to an iOS update.  Go back far enough, and Apple has done that kind of thing with RAM as well, after an OS update.

    Alex1Ndanncerjdb8167MplsP
  • The real story behind MagSafe, USB-C PD, and why you need a 20W AC charger

    citpeks said:

    it is not PD 3.0. PD 3.0 is backwards compatible with PD 2.0, 1.0, and USB 3 charging, so I'm not sure what you're wondering about with "quirks" on the iPhone 12.

    In no way is this a "gate" by any definition, and that's a ridiculous assertion. This is a matter of spec compliance, and nothing else.
    I meant "-gate" in the sense of being a false, overinflated controversy,  I know exactly what is going on, and what's in play.

    But you fail to address my real point, at the point, there is no assurance that "any" PD 3.0 adapter will successfully negotiate the 2.22A profile with the MagSafe or the iPhone 12.  In theory, that should be the case, but in practice, has yet to be proven, or the available findings would confirm it.  Or do you plan to provide some empirical testing to back up that contention?

    And yes, 2,22 is a quirk, at least for now, or we wouldn't be having this discussion to begin with.
    A video by Alvin Lim on youtube shows him pulling the same current as an apple 20w brick on two different third party PD 3.0 bricks, one being 120w and the other being 65w. Both support the 9V/3A standard output that any compliant USB brick 27w or over will provide.
    jdb8167danncerAlex1N
  • The real story behind MagSafe, USB-C PD, and why you need a 20W AC charger

    Kamirose said:
    "When the MagSafe Charger negotiates for power it specifically looks for the 9V x 2.22A supply, which is only present in 20W PD 3.0 adapters"

    This is incorrect. USB hasn't used profiles since PD 1.0. With the rules used by PD 2.0 and PD 3.0, the amperage is only the *maximum* it is able to provide. 9V/3A, which is a standard profile in any charger able to provide 27W or higher, isn't required to only provide 3A, it can also provide less than that, anywhere from 0 to 3. Which means it also provides 2.2a if requested by the device. This is shown in the graph you inserted in the USB Power Profiles section.
    The USB-IF and power regulatory chip manufacturers disagree with you on profiles existing.

    The combination, and steady maintenance, of 9v 2.22A is ONLY in PD 3.0. 9V and 3A is absolutely in 2.0, and 9v 2.22A is hittable in PD 2.0 only as a transient in response to external conditions like heat and whatnot as regulated by the regulatory circuitry and handshake. It isn't maintainable. The spec documents for PD 1 through 3 are clear on this.

    The bottom line is, a USB PD 2.0 adapter won't do it. A USB PD 3.0 will, and you don't need Apple's specifically.
    My post was not about PD 2.0 vs PD 3.0. It was about requiring an exact 20w brick to get full power. Sure, you may need PD 3.0 for magsafe, but you do not require a 20w brick - you require 20w or higher with a 9V rail and 2.2a or higher because with PD/PPS the amperage the charger supplies can dynamically change according to the requirements of the device being charged.  9V/3A is standard in any 27w or higher charging brick and will provide full power to magsafe (provided it has the correct PD standard).
    jdb8167Alex1Nsvanstromtwokatmew
  • The real story behind MagSafe, USB-C PD, and why you need a 20W AC charger

    Kamirose said:
    Kamirose said:
    "When the MagSafe Charger negotiates for power it specifically looks for the 9V x 2.22A supply, which is only present in 20W PD 3.0 adapters"

    This is incorrect. USB hasn't used profiles since PD 1.0. With the rules used by PD 2.0 and PD 3.0, the amperage is only the *maximum* it is able to provide. 9V/3A, which is a standard profile in any charger able to provide 27W or higher, isn't required to only provide 3A, it can also provide less than that, anywhere from 0 to 3. Which means it also provides 2.2a if requested by the device. This is shown in the graph you inserted in the USB Power Profiles section.
    The USB-IF and power regulatory chip manufacturers disagree with you on profiles existing.

    The combination, and steady maintenance, of 9v 2.22A is ONLY in PD 3.0. 9V and 3A is absolutely in 2.0, and 9v 2.22A is hittable in PD 2.0 only as a transient in response to external conditions like heat and whatnot as regulated by the regulatory circuitry and handshake. It isn't maintainable. The spec documents for PD 1 through 3 are clear on this.

    The bottom line is, a USB PD 2.0 adapter won't do it. A USB PD 3.0 will, and you don't need Apple's specifically.
    My post was not about PD 2.0 vs PD 3.0. It was about requiring an exact 20w brick to get full power. Sure, you may need PD 3.0 for magsafe, but you do not require a 20w brick - you require 20w or higher with a 9V rail and 2.2a or higher because with PD/PPS the amperage the charger supplies can dynamically change according to the requirements of the device being charged.  9V/3A is standard in any 27w or higher charging brick and will provide full power to magsafe (provided it has the correct PD standard).
    I don't believe we said that a 20W was the only option, but I see where you might have gotten that from the text you included, which I will clarify when I am done here. 9V/3A will work assuming you have a PD 3.0 charger. Most 27W USB-C chargers on the market right now are NOT 3.0. You can have that 27W as a 2.0, but you won't get there.

    Also FTA: "as 20W with USB PD 3.0 is the minimum in order to charge with MagSafe at full efficiency."
    Yeah, reading back my first post was poorly worded. I've edited it to clarify. :)
    jdb8167Alex1N