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I find it strange that Parallels keeps supporting Windows 11 on ARM, while Microsoft does not support this use case. Therefore not an option for business. VMWARE does not support Windows 11 on ARM for this reasons. 

melgross said:

Just to clear something up that some people might be thinking about, Apple has had a TPM for years, it’s called the Secure Enclave. It’s just not compatible with the TPM  used by AMD and Intel, and Apple will never open it up for third party use.

but this development shows that the TPM, as used by AMD and Intel, at least, can easily be worked around by software, so its value is questionable.

On Intel or AMD motherboards, during booting, the UEFI part of the boot process checks for the TPM compatibility (if present and which level). TPM can be either a separate hardware chip, or is included in the latest Intel or AMD processors (but needs to be enabled in the BIOS/UEFI settings). On Intel Macbooks with the T2 chip (=where the Secure Enclave is among other functions like the Touchbar, signal processing, audio and certain codecs), Apple could define a TPM 2.0 compatible interface that is reported in the UEFI while booting and can be used in Operating Systems that rely on TPM (more than Windows). Or Apple could enable the virtual TPM in the Intel chips. Both could work. Years later, they still haven’t enabled any of both. 

On the M1 there is no UEFI, and the boot process works completely differently, so you need virtualization software that emulates the TPM and offer drivers for video (and DirectX), touchpad, mouse, thunderbolt, USB, etc. 

BuffyzDead said:

To be clear, Parallels Desktop only supports the ARM version of Windows 11,

NOT the Intel version of Windows 11

What is strange in itself. With a virtual TPM they could have even Microsoft backed support for Windows 11 on Intel. On the other hand, the ARM version of Windows 11 on Apple Silicon aka M1 isn’t backed by Microsoft support. E.g. as a business you would never engage in a scenario where you would run Windows 11 on ARM on your M1 Macbook. 

Yctt_zh said:

melgross said:

ctt_zh said:

melgross said:

Just to clear something up that some people might be thinking about, Apple has had a TPM for years, it’s called the Secure Enclave. It’s just not compatible with the TPM  used by AMD and Intel, and Apple will never open it up for third party use.

but this development shows that the TPM, as used by AMD and Intel, at least, can easily be worked around by software, so its value is questionable.

What does Windows 11 on ARM have to do with Intel / AMD TPM? 

This is Windows 11 for ARM only. There has always been Software TPMs and Hypervisor TPMs (amongst the 5 types of TPM 2.0 Implementations).  

It has everything to do with it. Microsoft has stated several times now, that TPM 2 is required to install Win 11 on a machine. Since no ARM chip has that, you can’t DIRECTLY install even the ARM version on any ARM machine, including Apple’s. I’ve already said that software can work around it, so you don’t seem to have read my entire post. I also said, not in those words, that it’s a flaw.

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding but how is it a flaw when it's by design? The ARM-based Surface Pro X has a Firmware TPM chip. The Hypervisor TPM (vTPM) is a software solution to do the same job as the Firmware TPM Chip. A Hypervisor TPM is a recognised and accepted implementation of the TPM 2.0 spec. Where is the flaw?

And I still fail to see how the Intel / AMD TPM implementations have anything to do with Windows 11 on ARM. I did read your entire post but it's not clear.

You are right. 

The thing is that with Windows on ARM, Microsoft supports only a handful of devices running a few ARM processors of Qualcomm. Even the customized Microsoft SQ1 and SQ2 are manufactured by Qualcomm in a joint development. By working with Qualcomm, the current Windows on ARM are optimized for these Qualcomm ARM processors, including support for secure boot, TPM and DirectX and hence even hardware virtualization. All aspects that needs to be emulated by the virtualization software (Parallels and others) or Microsoft needs to work with Apple to hardware support the M1/Apple Silicon - both not of interest to Apple neither Microsoft.   

ArchStanton said:

darkvader said:

ArchStanton said:

darkvader said:

Except they're going to hit the same wall everybody else will. 

The reality is that the M1 is fine for a toy like an iPad, but it's too limited for anything more than a low-end general purpose computer.  16GB RAM in 2021 is a sad joke.

Keep your day job genius. What you know about the M series chips are about as much as your knowledge to post thoughtfully. 
The M series upside is unknown. It may already be near its ceiling but that is extremely unlikely for a large successful company to put big money into development of tech that has near future limitation. In the near future the M series and ARM may be what most personal computing is based off of, or something else may come along to trump it.. But you already know that, right? being the top level thinker your post reveals.

I'll definitely keep my day job which I assure you is not being one of those script-following board-swappers Apple likes to call "geniuses".

The M series future is somewhat known.  Apple will hit the same wall everybody else will.  TSMC, who actually make the chips since Apple has zero manufacturing capability, have already announced their plan to make 3nm and 2nm chips in the future.  IBM claims they're already making 2nm, we'll see if they can get any volume.  But 2nm is getting close to the end of the line, and we'll see if even TSMC manages to push below that, 1nm will probably happen but there's a decent chance that sub-nanometer won't even be workable.

I'm skeptical that the Acorn RISC Machine architcture is the future of computing.  Apple's tried chip design and RISC before, then the PowerPC hit a wall.  Could this time be different?  Maybe, but remember ARM is almost as old as the 68k, it's an older architecture than PowerPC.

Wherever you work I feel sorry for the outlook of that company.  You obviously like to play EE for Apple or TSMC online yet it is obviously you know less than nothing. Notice how you chage to "somewhat" known now. Fyi, everyone can see that and, while they are already were scoffing, just laugh at your typed non think blathering. And anyone like you (and other screen names you use) who would claim a gen 1 of a chip (now)"has a 'somewhat' known ceiling" is laughable. 

TSMC hasn’t start mass production of 3nm, it is limited production more for test purposes. TSMC does not yet have EUV Lithography machines for less then 3nm - for that they need new clean rooms and new EUV Lithography machines. ASML, the supplier of these EUV Lithography machines, just finished the machine they start producing next year. But it is like with airplanes, it takes time to build. Likely, we don’t see <3nm before 2025.  IBM also does not have EUV machines for 2nm chips (same reason, ASML hasn’t produced and shipped new machines). Studies to defining 2nm chips are done in software. You need to validate new gateways (FinFet is obsolete).