21yr_mac_user

I use primarily macs for home and my business but I IT a small medical clinic and bought 6 surface pro3s for electronic medical records. They are nice - the docs fill out the forms with the styluses because it is 3x more efficient then trackpad - but they still have a track pad option. They can use primarily in desktop mode. They are very light and have all day battery life. I think they don't sell as well because they are a premium product and that excludes 80% of the PC market - I mean an i7 in 1.73 lbs form factor! The "new" macbook (which I have and love except for the keyboard and dongles) is 2 lbs for a crappy slow processor. Instead of criticizing Microsoft here - we should be asking the same or more of Apple. An Apple Surface Pro4 clone - iOS/Mac OS, touchpad key cover - full travel keys, iPad Pro pens and 1.5 lbs with magsafe and new and legacy usb and display ports and a OEM complete dock solution with ethernet and tons of ports would sell like absolute hotcakes.

If you use PCs and haven't tried a Surface Pro4 - do so. Its an incredible piece of engineering and makes iPads redundant (and that may be why Apple won't knock them off).

I just wish Apple would step up it's Mac game so we can have decent competitive (in HW and price!) products - I mean touchbar - what were they thinking other then - Apple design committee meeting: "well we got to keep appearing innovative and we can't copy so lets try a touch bar - yea that's the ticket". And those new laptop keyboards.. - I use them but just absolutely hate them - it's not growing on me after 2 years and counting...

ChrisMarshall3D said:

With no meaningful upgrade to the desktop or workstation Mac lineup, this news is hardly a surprise. As a Motion Graphic company looking to reinvest in new kit that traditionally would've been Macs without even thinking about it, we're now looking at Windows. Apple clearly are targeting the consumer market now, not the professional. I really can't run my high-end applications from a laptop, I need good workstations with a guarantee of future commitment from Apple.

Amen, I still use my aging 8 core mac pro (with many upgrades like graphics card, usb 3, 1 TB PCI SSD, new bluetooth chipset), but instead of the planned mac upgrade, I bought a top of the line CPU $1400 PC workstation - that is latest 1TB SSD NVMe 3.5 GB/s read 1.9 GB/s write - boots win10 in a second. Believe me I would have spent $2k for an equivalent mac but they don't exist. A worse aging new mac pro is closer to 5-7k, and who knows how long it will be supported (or if will even exist in 3 years!) and it's not upgradable. Apple is not just loosing the pro market, they are doing everything in their power to make it flee! After 30 years of fighting for every scrap of the desktop market just to give it up? I don't understand what the bean counters in Cupertino are thinking!

cgWerks said:

21yr_mac_user said:

I got fed up waiting for a new reasonably priced expandable Mac Pro a few months ago, and boy I'm glad I stopped waiting based on this stratospheric pricing.

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It’s disheartening for someone who has been owning and using macs since 1987.

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As a note using a standard PC desktop price decrease graph I found and taking the ratio for my $2,689 dual processor 8 core mac pro in 2008 -  I would expect to pay $1,900 for my next 8 core mac Pro with a 1 TB SSD which is the norm these days, not $5999 starting for 256GB!

Congrats on your build! But, I just had to make a few comments in regard to your post.
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Third... could you really get a Mac Pro in 2008 for $2689? If so, that falls into what I was complaining about a bit above. For a SMALL period of time, Apple delivered some really great stuff for relatively low prices. But, that was the exception, not the norm for long-term Apple users. I'm sad to see them move away from that, and I understand the outcry from everyone who jumped onboard then... but context is important, here.

I got fed up waiting for a new reasonably priced expandable Mac Pro a few months ago, and boy I'm glad I stopped waiting based on this stratospheric pricing. I’m a lifelong apple fan but have been disillusioned lately with the bean counter upsell shenanigans under Cook. Every Apple product these days has a serious omission, defect, upgrade lockdown or pricing issue with upsells. It’s disheartening for someone who has been owning and using macs since 1987. I am the definition of a fanboy - but I won't waste hard earned money and shouldn't have to to stay in the apple universe.

Ordinarily if Apple had equivalent products me buying a hardware update to my old trusty 'ol maxed out 2008 MacPro would be expected – however Apple simply has no products I want for a desktop at any reasonable price. I just want a comparable cost update to my 2008 Mac Pro format – big case lots of slots and drive bays, dedicated high end graphics – most everything is upgradable (and I have upgraded most everything on my 2008!)

As a note using a standard PC desktop price decrease graph I found and taking the ratio for my $2,689 dual processor 8 core mac pro in 2008 -  I would expect to pay $1,900 for my next 8 core mac Pro with a 1 TB SSD which is the norm these days, not $5999 starting for 256GB! Most of small pros like me just want an i7/i9 not a Xeon. An example a Dell precision 5820 tower i7 is $1739. If you upgrade to 1TB SSD and an i9 with tons of upgrade options it is $2800. Apple should match that. I also would like an open machine not locked down SSDs via the Apple T2 chip. I’d also like a choice of NVIDIA graphic cards. Also I've done gov work - no project is going to spring for the new Mac Pros - projects have IT budgets and you can only justify Macs if they are a little more - price gouging doesn't pass procurement checks.

So I took matters into my own hands – and built a new mac desktop a "PoweriMac G3-i7" to hold me for the next decade. It will almost for sure be my last Mac. In a decade at the current trend there will be so few Mac users left and the apps availability will be so subpar that it won't be worth it. iPhones made it because of the initial first to market huge install base. Steve rescued the Mac because of reasonable pricing to rebuild market share - Tim's apple is a short-sighted money grubbing bean counter that is slowly killing off the mac. A few big hollywood corporate clients can't support an entire computer platform.

So I bought a 2017 iMac 5k i5 with a broken display on eBay for $985, upgraded the memory ($271) i7-7700k CPU ($279) and 1 TB High End HP EX920 4xPCI NVMe SSD ($149) plus adapter (faster then Apple SSD), OWC drive dock ($50), plus a bit on fans, coolers ($152) cables and lots of time and trial and error on the cooling system. I shoved the whole $2k kit into my old PowerMac G3 Blue and White case which I gutted (kinda of sad actually to gut it – but I was never going to turn it on again – at least it got a second life!). I had to do a major cooling system redo when the iMac fan was too loud and insufficient - so I added a dedicated CPU cooler at the expense of a memory slot. I already own 3 big good monitors and don't want any more. 

I was going to get a 2019 iMac 5k /i9 when it came out and upgrade the motherboard – but the Vega 48 graphics weren’t much faster than mine – it definitely wasn’t worth extra $2k!

My $2k 1TB SSD 40GB RAM PoweriMac G3-i7 Pluses over an iMac
-        Retro Cool as heck !! (priceless) – all front panel buttons work!
-        Use my existing monitors – with antiglare coatings 1x 38” and 2x 24” monitors
-        Easily upgradable – just open up the side! Want a 2 TB SSD - 10 min and $250
-        Easy to fix and clean – just open up the side!
-        Easy to check the power and boot status – motherboard status LEDs are visible through the case
-        NVMe read write status light is optically piped to the front – computer not responsive – see if SSD is working!
-        CD/DVD R/W Drive! Yes I still sometimes need it.
-        2x Internal SATA slide in hard drive bays with room for 1 more with case power switches. All locked up securely – try that iMac!
-        Improved cooling with dedicated twin low RPM fans for CPU and GPU - doesn’t get above 100F/38C running flat out for hours and is quieter than my 2008 Mac Pro.
-        Extra heatsink from my old PowerMac G3 CPU heatsink parts on Intel Platform Controller Hub Die which got quite hot – not available on iMac!
-        Extra heatsink from my old PowerMac G3 CPU heatsink parts on SSD Controller which got warm under heavy write operations – not available on iMac!
-        No T2 chip!!! unlike the new MacPro
-        Don’t want the camera (can always attach one if I need it, and my apple 24” has one but I never use it.
-        Don’t want the speakers – my other monitors have them
-        Wifi / Bluetooth antennas are far from my head and body and I have external high gain antennas with way improved performance.

So the force touch was reason to get rid of the headphone jack because "there wasn't enough room". So they delete lots of stuff but don't bring it back. I'm am sick of the billion dongles for my 8+ I need 2 just to charge on the plane it is a PITA and half the time the dongle (I have 2 sets) is in the wrong room. I would buy any new iPhone in a heartbeat if it had the headphone jack. I just bought a used iPad pro 2nd gen before they gutted the headphone jack.

And no I'm not buying new headphones - I have a nice pair of top of line studio monitors which cost hundreds and there is zero reason to replace them because Apple wants to sell air buds and Beats. Honestly the feds should just force all phone companies to put back headphone jacks - it's anti completive monopoly behavior.

The core issue is - 3.5mm headphone jacks have been around forever and are a standard for new and old legacy equipment. The replacement cycle for audio equipment is years to decades - it is a different industry then the fast paced computer industry and as such no comparison with the lighting or usb ports are truly relevant. Apple is good about forcing change the computer industry - but audio ports are *not* the computer industry - and it doesn't have the monopoly on audio peripherals that it does on computer peripherals . 

I have speaker systems, professional headphones, amps, that are fine and I'll keep for decades and they use 3.5mm analog inputs. I'm not getting a phone that doesn't play nice with my legacy equipment. 

Apple can easily make a waterproof compactor, shrink it some more and fit it somewhere - it trivial engineering, they are just being pig headed (again assuming this rumor is true!)

wonkothesane said:

AppleInsider said:

[...]
Apple's new 12 inch MacBook is reportedly the company's best selling Mac model.
[...]

Surprising at first coming from reading all the views in forums. But then again showing how the "real world out there" and some "experts" disagree, and that Apple appears to have done it right once more. Good job, Apple.

I have had one for a year - once you go to a 2 lb notebook there is no going back. I'd like another port but overall - the low weight is worth it. Any other large tasks need a big desktop  -this does everything else.

Oh on the surface pro note: my clinic runs 5 SP3s with no problems. Users love having stylus input for electronic charting, (they hardly ever use the mouse/trackpad).

The reality of 2016 is Chinese premium smart phones are flooding the market for <$200 and are decent enough. Poor people the world over just can't justify the cost of an iPhone - it used to be 3 times better but now it's not. Apple just has to cut prices way way more in developing countries and needs to cut them a bit as well in developed countries. They can pay for it by stopping the useless ridicously expensive stock buybacks. Maybe just include a India chip that only works there, so they can't be exported to other countries. I feel like Apple is incapable of adjusting it's prices since Tim took over. It's business - any competitive product will sell at the right price. 1) Stop pricing in dollars since it's mostly cheap foreign components. 2) Low prices by 30% across the board 3) Have a fire sale - 50% off for a week in the doldrums of June (surprise sales different times every year) every year and flood the market and claw back market share. Fight Apple - Fight!

Hallelujah! That should be worth $20 on the stock price alone!

Man what a bunch of one-sided responses as usual. rest assured China has backdoors in all of their products and probably half of our products made there. This is serious stuff - if the contacts in the phone stop another attack and loss of innocent lives it's worth it. I wonder how many of you nay-sayers would be talking like this if the next iphone preventable attack takes out your family members - probably none of you. Having court orders to get stuff is completely reasonable - and has been the case for decades. I think anyone crying foul like this has a lot of skeleton's in his or her closet. It's the price of a secure society, this issue isn't going to go away, and we can't allow an clandestine ISIS/whoever's next armies coordinating attacks in our country. If anyone has better ideas that will ensure safety - lets hear them! The real issue is Apple doesn't want to lose foreign sales due to the issues the Snowden revelations brought up. This is a commerce play - pure and simple as it always is with companies.