avon b7

hugo62 said:

libertyandfree said:

MagicApple said:

'Designed by Apple in California assembled in China'

could now become

'Designed by Apple in California assembled in the European Union'

...might make happier a lot more people!

The EU is about the worst place to assemble a product.  Regulations are terrible and costs are high. 

Is that why so many Americans buy European cars 🙄

Yes. Not to mention that some people in the US are even importing European windows for new homes and still see the task as affordable (shipping, middleman and installation costs included) because they are getting quality that seems hard to match from domestic suppliers. 

I suppose that will change with the tariff situation. 

But of course, the EU isn't too shabby in these areas of manufacturing either... 

Chemicals and chemical products
Scientific instruments
Pharmaceuticals
Machinery and equipment (precisely for manufacturing) 
Aerospace
Electronics and telecommunications

Not sure I trust the manufacturing and assembly at something like Boeing.

It is very clear that it would take Apple many, many years to reshore manufacturing and staffing is sure to be a problem which will push end prices up too. 

I just can't see it ever happening and Trump will be gone long before any projects even begin to take shape. 

Someone at some point is going to have to undo the mess. 

And here he is gloating to fellow Republicans last night:

“I’m telling you, these countries are calling us up kissing my ass.”

The John Wayne of politics is probably how he sees himself.

I wonder how the Chinese will take that when contemplating any possible future meeting.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/trump-s-trade-chief-admits-us-running-up-the-score-with-tariffs-on-australia-20250409-p5lqap.html

And all the while Tim Cook must be thinking what if China finally snaps throws an iPhone ban into the mix? 

It must be '2 seconds to midnight' in his thinking with no easy way to defuse the situation (at least not without one side losing face). As if tariffs themselves weren't already bad enough. 

Now Trump wants the saying to be:

 'DO AS I COMMAND AND DON'T EVEN DARE TO DO AS I DO!' 

If China calls his bluff the shit will truly hit the fan. 

It's anybody's guess what will happen next. 

jfabula1 said:

WilliamM said:

tokyojimu said:

Maybe it will finally be cheaper to buy Apple products in countries other than the US.

No. Prices will go up everywhere else to subsidise Americans.

We’ve been subsidizing the world, about time we have a President who have balls….Americans been used to cheaper products made by American companies in foreign lands where cheap labors are abundant….we been spoiled for too long and borrowing for too long, now it’s time to pay up.

The EU investment in the US is worth over two trillion dollars. The French have suggested pausing that as a tariff countermeasure.

Is the US subsidising Australia? The UK/US submarine deal is estimated to cost them 280 billion dollars over the next few decades (likely a LOT more). India? Russia? China? Brazil? China is already there but the other three will be moving swiftly up the ladder of competition. 

The US pretty much depends on 'dollar hegemony'. The US wants to 'control' everything. It thinks it can dole out unilateral sanctions on sovereign nations. It wants military bases everywhere. It wants to 'interfere' everywhere. Much of this has been going on for decades and administration official are very open about admitting it. 

The 'rest of the world' hasn't ever liked this but politics and diplomacy (and financial interest) have allowed things to continue unchanged (for better or worse). 

The US 'subsidising' the rest of the world? It's far more complex than that. Those bases are not there for our security. They are there as strategic assets for the US.

Trump claims the US takes more imports from the EU than the EU takes from the US and says the EU rules are 'unfair'. Even VAT is unfair!

The rules are clear and in the case of foodstuffs for example or agricultural items, a lot of US  food doesn't pass the regulations for sale in the EU anyway. VAT isn't something the US should be pushing sovereign nations to change. 

A recent speech by JD Vance saw him admit that he thinks the US should sit atop the 'value chain'. Everyone else needs to be below, but China, according to him, after long dominating the lower tiers (where the US was very happy with that), has now found a space in the top tier right alongside the US. As a result, the US is being 'squeezed out' (in his own words).

This is something the US finds hard to accept, and for the Trump administration in particular, is totally unacceptable, so now it's 'breaking legs' in an attempt to force foes and allies into submission. It will backfire. In fact it's been backfiring for years. It only competes if it will win. If it can't win it will kill the game. That is how Trump thinks and works. 

Trump's first term saw him repeat the 'not on my watch' line but change was already underway during his first watch, the Biden years and now back on his second watch. 

Nothing can change that, but just as his foolish actions first time around saw China accelerate its plans, his actions now (Ukraine, Russia, EU,  NATO...) have destroyed trust and thrown a deliberate spanner into the economics of globalisation and complex global supply chains. That of course will also impact domestic supply chains. Apple takes a direct hit and is hit by collateral damage (Chinese patriotism for example and anti-American sentiment in general). 

There is no going back now and his rhetoric on Gaza, Canada, Panama Canal, Greenland etc (with authoritarian leanings) is just cementing his position as someone who cannot be trusted.

China has been reducing its US debt holding. De-dollarisation is happening, BRICS+ and digital currencies are getting a lot of attention. Allies are looking out for themselves now. 

The US is in its current state because it put itself into its current state. It pushed for profit and put that profit into the hands of the rich. 

It was comical to hear Vance complain about US shipbuilding efforts in that same speech when compared to the rest of the world (China again, obviously) when we know that shipbuilding isn't a profitable business and is also risky. It's one of the reasons the US doesn't really have a shipbuilding industry. 

And it is ironic that he speaks of 'value' and then completely ignores the value gained from allies (beyond the hard numbers in trade deficits and whatnot). But then again allies are there to be Trumped on I suppose! 

And now you seem to think the US is subsidising the world! 

But the so-called allies might just have had enough. We'll see on that point but here is a representative of Canada yesterday (Ralph Goodale, the high commissioner for Canada in the UK). 

“The action taken by the US government is completely illogical. It will damage the United States itself. It will raise costs in the United States. It will eliminate jobs in the United States, it will reduce growth in the United States and we have to make it abundantly clear not just that that is going to happen rhetorically, but the US has to feel the pain, because ultimately it will be Americans who will persuade their government to stop this foolishness.”

The new sheriff is shooting from the hip but what will happen when runs out of bullets? And how many of those bullets are punching holes in allies and the US alike? 

All this, in how many weeks? 

The bridges are burning while the president works on his swing. You can only rock the boat so much before it capsizes. 

imat said:

According to ChatGPT Apple could also offset some of the decreasing US revenue per product by increasing prices worldwide and therefore increasing margins in other markets.

That would definitely hit sales revenue in those markets as, while Apple says it didn't raise prices of some models, that was only in the US. The rest of the world was already squirming under price rices and even the 16e is expensive in most regions. On top of that, local sales taxes also add to the burden. 

China is likely to be a huge problem for Apple even without the possibility of Chinese government intervention. Consumers might boycott US products where non-US alternatives are available. It's not like Chinese consumers are strapped for choice. 

Trump's ranting about unfair added taxes (VAT) is one of the clearest signs he has no clue about what he's talking about. 

The tariffs are only part of the problem. The unpredictable nature of Trump and the administration make navigating the months and years ahead almost impossible. Tariffs also provoke currency fluctuations that can swing both ways. Initial tariffs saw the euro fall (making US imports more expensive) but the 'Liberation Day' tariffs are seeing the dollar take a hit. 

In a word it's chaos. 

Increasing manufacturing in the US is mission impossible unless you want to manufacture products that no one can afford to buy. Then there is the timeframe to pull that off (impossible in the short and mid term) and then, in the case of advanced manufacturing, find skilled workers to oversee the processes.

Trump could have achieved his goals by sitting down and presenting his specific qualms with each nation/bloc. 

Instead he chose to unilaterally pull the rug out from under the feet of the world (the US included). 

It would be nice to see the rest of the world hold out and not negotiate under these impositions and let reality set in for US business and consumers. If US consumers stopped buying foreign tariff-impacted goods it would starve the administration of the revenues it would inevitably need to subsidise things like the agricultural industry which will take a hit just like it did in his first term. 

Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.