avon b7

chasm said:

laoban00 said:

Lol. Let me know when an iphone shoots better pics than even the cheapest Huawei. For your info the best smartphone in the world is the Huawei Mate 20 pro. 

As well it should be -- they steal their technologies from the best global companies, just like the other Chinese companies. The only thing China innovates at is spyware, viruses, malware, and oppressing their own people.

Perhaps you don't know much about this area of Huawei phones. They have a complete imaging research centre in Finland where most of Nokia's imaging division was absorbed into. Lens hardware is co-engineered with Leica and often Sony sensors are used. I've never read anything related to IP theft for imaging. Have you?

anantksundaram said:

avon b7 said:

anantksundaram said:

avon b7 said:

anantksundaram said:

Al_ien1 said:

The US has been doing the same thing for decades. There is a Foriegn Technology Division in WPAFB in Ohio whose purpose is to reverse engineer Foriegn Technology! China has invested untold Billions of dollars in technology while the US has SPENT untold Billions on the military. If America had created the 5G technology first they would be pushing it to countries around the world (for spying as well ) and no one would have heard of Huawei. 

OK, you China trolls that are showing up in spades. Here's a simple question that I invite any one of you to answer: Name one -- not two, not three, not four, just one -- product or service created/innovated by China in the past, let's say, three decades that has become a global product or service. I dare you to name one.

I'll wait.

That reminded me of the 'what have the Romans ever done for us?' in the Life of Brian. LOL.

But if we are ignoring what the Chinese gave to the world centuries ago and limiting scope to the last few decades, I'd say China is leading the way in technologies related to facial recognition and exporting them with success but what is perhaps more noteworthy is the progess it has made in innovation and technology during the last 30 years:

https://www.nber.org/papers/w22854.pdf [.pdf]

And I suppose Chow Mein doesn't count ;-)

Joking apart, let's not forget that Huawei is going to be a major player in 5G and everything associated with the technologies that branch out from it.

Ah, I knew that ridiculous stuff like centuries old "chow mein" -- heck, I'll even grant you paper, porcelain, and gunpowder -- would be trotted out.

The only example you can come up with is a yet-to-be proven "..leading the way in in technologies related to facial recognition and exporting them with success...." How exactly are they leading the way except in building the surveillance state? Who are the companies doing this? What are their revenues? To whom are they exporting? What is the value of their exports? How does it compare with their $500B in Chinese exports to the US of other stuff that the rest of the world created or innovated?

Btw, do you know who came up with facial recognition technology, and where? (Hint: It's not China).

That's all you can come up with?! Did China come up with.... let me throw out a few random things from just the last 30 or so years... Laptops? Email? E-commerce? Search? Social networking? GUI? MRI? Flash memory? Lasers? Robotic surgery? DNA testing? RFID? Barcodes? Stents? Smartphones? Tablets? Biofuels? ATMs? LEDs? LCDs? GPS? Large scale wind turbines? PV cells? Digital photography?

If you go back a bit more, did China come up with world-changing things like Airplanes? Fiber optics? Internet? Software/programming languages? Automobiles? The internal combustion engine? Rockets? Satellites? Penicillin? The germ theory of disease? Open heart surgery? Semiconductors? Want me to go on? Want 20 more such examples? 50 more? 100 more?

Name ONE innovation from China -- OK, I'll expand it to the last 100 years -- that's in the same league as any of these. ONE. (I don't wish to single out China -- I'll take any Asian country as an example in the same league of innovative ability, if you can provide it).

Pathetic... please just slink away...

As I said, what is far more important is how they have progressed and where they might be heading over the coming decades. The document I linked to is quite informative. Especially the section on patents

Facial recognition technology is not something people want to speak openly about but Chinese tech is currently in testing or being used around the world in both the public and private sector. HiSilicon is also developing (well it has already deployed) custom AI silicon to advance the technology even further.

Facial recognition wasn't the only thing I mentioned. I also mentioned 5G and the possible developments arising from that.

1) “How they progressed and where they might heading”: bottom line, you cannot name a SINGLE Chinese innovation of consequence. My original question and its premise stands. 

2) “Facial recognition technology is not something that people want to talk about”: yet you somehow know? Stop this utter bullshit 

3) What about 5G? Did China develop it? Do you know the history of 5G? What ‘possible developments’? Again, utter bullshit. 

In fact, for all the IP that has been stolen, I hope you’ll have something to show for it going forward. Something original and impactful that builds on all that theft, for a change. 

Like I said before, stop embarrassing yourself. And your country. Just slink away, man, and take all your troll pals with you. 

1. Why does it matter? All the great civilisations gave us good and bad. We are supposed to learn from those aspects and improve on them. Many Apple patents actually name people of Chinese descendency. One of the major differences between the progress of Russian and Chinese communist systems over the last decades has been emmigration of Chinese nationals. Now there are many Chinese companies outside China contributing to the patent pool.  You deliberately limited your question to a timeframe which included a period when China was going through reform. In spite of that I dug out a document that showed the huge progress made in technology stakes during the period. The document's conclusions are somewhat open ended as no one knows what the future may hold. Nevertheless it details wholesale advances in its technological patent output (a recognised metric) which shows no signs of slowing down. In the case if Huawei it is said that Apple licences close to 800 patents from the company.

2. Facial recognition is a delicate subject for obvious reasons. Many governments favour implementation of systems but are wary of a public backlash and try to keep plans under wraps. That doesn't change the fact that the Chinese (again for obvious reasons) are widely accepted as currently leading the race here.

3. 5G. Huawei has been a major player in the development of 5G. 'Possible developments' refers to where things will go after deployment. One of the major US fears is seeing Chinese companies deploy systems and actually start developing solutions for them well in advance of US efforts. The connected world is simply a slogan at this point but there are big plans. The problem - today - is that there is very little deployment. That is quickly being resolved as we speak and the US is not really in the race at this point, hence these actions by Pompeo and company who fear the US losing strategic importance across the board (military, economic, scientific, consumer, industry etc). The theoretical implications are vast and 5G may provide the threads that tie it all together. People are talking about 5G as a new revolution. It is early days but I can see why the US is more than worried.

Read this and play close attention to the quotes of US government representatives:

https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/2186661/huawei-just-start-5g-will-be-central-front-us-china-war

Let's imagine for a moment that IP was actually stolen. Of all the MASSIVE R&D outlay and technology advances by Huawei to date, and in all fields, how much do you think was stolen?

Try to put some perspective into things because I'm seeing lots of patents coming out of Huawei (for which Apple reportedly pays hundreds of millions of dollars) and smartphone advances that are a long way off appearing on iPhones.

Now re-read the piece and confirm to me that all there is at this point are allegations. Nothing more. I mention this because I get the impression that your mind is already made up.

I will repeat. Truth in any of these allegations apart, we are in the middle of a slur campaign by the US government that has so far not offered any evidence of what it is claiming. In fact, and as of today, Huawei phones are still on sale in the US and worldwide, and are  smashing sales records. What better reason could there be to try and tarnish the name of the company in an attempt slow its progress down?

However, speculation apart, I prefer the facts, of which none have yet been presented. Do you agree?

A heads up for you. MWC is next week. Huawei has spent over 18 million euros on its stand at the show and wants its voice to be heard. 

Here is a little taste of reality in this ongoing saga:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-19/trump-s-huawei-threats-dismissed-in-italian-pivot-toward-china

The word bullying is now being heard with regards to US attempts to impact Huawei's progress on foreign soil. There is a growing feeling of 'we don't want you meddling in our internal affairs to suit your [US] interests'.

When Pompeo began threatening nations, it really looks to have irritated some governments. I will remind you of leaked comments by high ranking EU officials after Donald Trump was elected that made it clear that the US should be considered less of an ally given his stance on certain topics. That is truer today than it ever was not so long ago.

slurpy said:

The best part is how pretty much every single American tech Youtuber shills for Huawei as much as possible, recommending their products and claiming they're just as good if not better than Apple's offerings. I find it utterly disgusting and disgraceful, to be honest. Who knows if they're being paid to do it or not, but either way it's pathetic.

It does seem as though US tech writers (not only YouTubers) seem to rate Huawei quite highly but that doesn't make it pathetic or disgusting. I don't know how much is sponsored but, having quite close contact with the medical profession, I can guarantee you that what US pharmaceutical companies in the EU push medical professionals to prescribe their products in ways that make Huawei pale in comparison but that is how business is done and is openly recognised as such. Microsoft in its heydey was far far worse in the computing realm.

Huawei products have stood their ground on merit, though. I do not doubt there is sponsored content (in fact I sometimes see it labelled as such) but the phones are rated for what they are and currently are some of the best on offer in terms of both technology and price.

anantksundaram said:

avon b7 said:

anantksundaram said:

Al_ien1 said:

The US has been doing the same thing for decades. There is a Foriegn Technology Division in WPAFB in Ohio whose purpose is to reverse engineer Foriegn Technology! China has invested untold Billions of dollars in technology while the US has SPENT untold Billions on the military. If America had created the 5G technology first they would be pushing it to countries around the world (for spying as well ) and no one would have heard of Huawei. 

OK, you China trolls that are showing up in spades. Here's a simple question that I invite any one of you to answer: Name one -- not two, not three, not four, just one -- product or service created/innovated by China in the past, let's say, three decades that has become a global product or service. I dare you to name one.

I'll wait.

That reminded me of the 'what have the Romans ever done for us?' in the Life of Brian. LOL.

But if we are ignoring what the Chinese gave to the world centuries ago and limiting scope to the last few decades, I'd say China is leading the way in technologies related to facial recognition and exporting them with success but what is perhaps more noteworthy is the progess it has made in innovation and technology during the last 30 years:

https://www.nber.org/papers/w22854.pdf [.pdf]

And I suppose Chow Mein doesn't count ;-)

Joking apart, let's not forget that Huawei is going to be a major player in 5G and everything associated with the technologies that branch out from it.

Ah, I knew that ridiculous stuff like centuries old "chow mein" -- heck, I'll even grant you paper, porcelain, and gunpowder -- would be trotted out.

The only example you can come up with is a yet-to-be proven "..leading the way in in technologies related to facial recognition and exporting them with success...." How exactly are they leading the way except in building the surveillance state? Who are the companies doing this? What are their revenues? To whom are they exporting? What is the value of their exports? How does it compare with their $500B in Chinese exports to the US of other stuff that the rest of the world created or innovated?

Btw, do you know who came up with facial recognition technology, and where? (Hint: It's not China).

That's all you can come up with?! Did China come up with.... let me throw out a few random things from just the last 30 or so years... Laptops? Email? E-commerce? Search? Social networking? GUI? MRI? Flash memory? Lasers? Robotic surgery? DNA testing? RFID? Barcodes? Stents? Smartphones? Tablets? Biofuels? ATMs? LEDs? LCDs? GPS? Large scale wind turbines? PV cells? Digital photography?

If you go back a bit more, did China come up with world-changing things like Airplanes? Fiber optics? Internet? Software/programming languages? Automobiles? The internal combustion engine? Rockets? Satellites? Penicillin? The germ theory of disease? Open heart surgery? Semiconductors? Want me to go on? Want 20 more such examples? 50 more? 100 more?

Name ONE innovation from China -- OK, I'll expand it to the last 100 years -- that's in the same league as any of these. ONE. (I don't wish to single out China -- I'll take any Asian country as an example in the same league of innovative ability, if you can provide it).

Pathetic... please just slink away...

As I said, what is far more important is how they have progressed and where they might be heading over the coming decades. The document I linked to is quite informative. Especially the section on patents

Facial recognition technology is not something people want to speak openly about but Chinese tech is currently in testing or being used around the world in both the public and private sector. HiSilicon is also developing (well it has already deployed) custom AI silicon to advance the technology even further.

Facial recognition wasn't the only thing I mentioned. I also mentioned 5G and the possible developments arising from that.

anantksundaram said:

avon b7 said:

If there is anything illegal going on, I say present charges and get everything out in the air. Does that make sense to you?

Patience, man.

I have little doubt that we'll find out soon. Very soon.

That's fine but I prefer to hear both sides of the story before reaching conclusions and even then there is more perspective to take into account:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-us-not-china-is-the-real-threat-to-international-rule-of-law/