avon b7

auxio said:

avon b7 said:

Tim has to talk it up. It's his job but sometimes he does go overboard.

We think it's the best. Yeah! I can't imagine him going on record as saying anything else, so long as 'think' is in there somewhere.

At least he is admitting that they are behind. 

Yes, they have done ML for a long time but so has everybody else, and arguably better and more far reaching but I'm sure he'd still say he thinks it's the best. 

I can't blame him for that but Apple made a strategic goof here and that's why it is behind and only the very latest hardware will be able to run it. If this were some kind of long term, well thought out strategic plan, at the very least, iPhones would have shipped with more RAM for the last few generations.

The reality looks more like' Yikes! We need to get rolling on this fast!'

That's why we got the initial response of not even uttering the letters 'AI' and doubling down on ML instead. In hindsight that was foolish but Apple literally had nothing to offer up back then so at least it is understandable. 

One year on, AI was at least utterable and even became the star of WWDC but still there was nothing to show for it until 'later'. The new iPhones came and still AI was the star and STILL there was nothing to show for it and now the complete feature roll out isn't expected until 2025.

From the moment that the generative models became news and quickly stormed to over 100 million users, Apple has been on the back foot. 

You know why Apple was hesitant about AI, but you'd rather dance around it with investor hype. To do AI properly you need to collect data about everything people do on your platforms. And to get people to agree to that, you need to hide the fact that you're doing it in convoluted terms of service agreements. Or what I call, sleazy business tactics. Something which Apple doesn't have the stomach for. Having business ethics is something which should be applauded in my books.

Yes, it all takes humongous amounts of data to create viable solutions. There are ethical issues surrounding both the foundational data and the use of resulting AI solutions but they have been known for decades. From theory to reality and beyond.

Obviously, hesitancy is not a valid explanation here and let's not forget all the ML talk from Apple a couple of years back and everyone trying to claim Apple wasn't 'behind' because they've been 'doing ML since 2017'.

ML requires huge amounts of data too! Yet Apple wasn't 'hesitant'.

The problem is that Apple was caught wrong footed - strategically.

Huawei launched an entire AI platform back in 2018 with absolutely everything needed to get moving on AI. From cluster systems with thousands of cores to software frameworks (CANN/Mindspore) to chipsets for cluster systems (Ascend Max) right down to earbuds (Ascend Mini/Nano) and everything else in between.

Or Nvidia. Or Google. Or Meta.

Apple didn't move when it should have. It's now late to 'where the puck is'.

It isn't the end of the world but in terms of actual shipping products, it is trying to catch up.

9secondkox2 said:

avon b7 said:

9secondkox2 said:

That’s the leader we need to protect American companies from abuses overseas. 

The guy isn’t right all the time. But he is most of the time snd that’s better than the competition. 

Just needs a congress and senate to support his vision instead of trying to divide. 

Feel horrible for apple. They’ve really made such effort to produce the best products in the world and safeguard their customers. Then corrupt entities like the EU SEEK to straight up steal for them by changing goalposts whenever they want more cash. Apple and others need someone who will go to bat for them. 

Trump is unfit for office and the EU does not 'steal' anything.

If anything, many Europeans could feel that Apple was 'stealing' from them by shifting earnings out of the EU and only making a miniscule fraction available for taxation.

The EU cannot 'move the goalposts'. The European Court of Justice is there to set things straight when it comes to the final interpretation of EU law and has ruled in favor of many US Big Tech companies. 

avon b7 said:

9secondkox2 said:

That’s the leader we need to protect American companies from abuses overseas. 

The guy isn’t right all the time. But he is most of the time snd that’s better than the competition. 

Just needs a congress and senate to support his vision instead of trying to divide. 

Feel horrible for apple. They’ve really made such effort to produce the best products in the world and safeguard their customers. Then corrupt entities like the EU SEEK to straight up steal for them by changing goalposts whenever they want more cash. Apple and others need someone who will go to bat for them. 

Trump is unfit for office and the EU does not 'steal' anything.

If anything, many Europeans could feel that Apple was 'stealing' from them by shifting earnings out of the EU and only making a miniscule fraction available for taxation.

The EU cannot 'move the goalposts'. The European Court of Justice is there to set things straight when it comes to the final interpretation of EU law and has ruled in favor of many US Big Tech companies. 

Bruh. That’s all they’ve done is move the goalposts. Apple went from doing everything right to all of a sudden being “wrong” just because the EU decided to make new rules aimed squarely at their business model. That’s the definition of moving the goalposts. 

And they’re all unfit. But he’s the best of the bunch. He’s got competence, leadership, and ability to do what he says. Versus people who sometimes say nice things but can’t accomplish it. But most of the time they don’t say nice things. They’re too busy crushing girls’ hopes in sports, confusing men and women, getting out people killed while enabling terrorism to grow at the same time with their management of territory departures, unclear on hie string they will be with foreign adversarial bullies, and lying their butts off during debates. Or more recently, not answering any questions, but responding only with “but…but… other guy bad!” Nobody wants some ex run of the mill prosecutor known for sending good people to jail, letting criminals go free, and laughing it off running things. Heck no. In 2020 Kamala Harris ram for president and was the first one to drop out because no one could stand it. If there was an actual primary this year, the same thing would happen. Instead, she gets forced onto the country in the most non-democratic way. The people never got to choose their candidate. There was no vetting or critical comparisons to more deserving candidates. It was just throw the guy who’s not looking so great under the bus and install the vp, who’s been hiding from the spotlight in order to hide from her four years of complete incompetent disaster. How that’s not entirely illegal in something so important as the United States presidential election, is beyond insanity. The democrats calling themselves democratic but this shows they don’t care about respecting democracy one bit. Voting for the other, more normal side seems the only logical snd responsible option. I know this forum is a bit of a liberal echo chamber, but Some of you don’t sound like  you are actually pro-Harris. You just want anyone other than trump. The problem is, she’s much worse in reality than he would ever be in your worst TDS nightmares. 

irelsnd had the right to offer apple a tax break. Apple had the right to accept. If anyone was guilty, it was Ireland. But they did nothing wrong. Some folks at the EU just needed more funding for their next yacht and castle purchase. 

If California offered your business a huge state tax break, it’s not the IRS job to come after you for taking the offer. The authority over you made it ok. So you did the ok thing. Apple was beholden to Ireland and did what any responsible company would do in accepting a helpful offer. They’d it. There is no way to spin thst no matter how hard you try. 

No goalposts were moved. 

In fact, the original investigation couldn't even encompass all of Apple's activities simply because the law didn't allow for it. There was a cut off point in time. 

What happened was that Apple simply fell under the radar for many years and got away with it. Size matters and it has nothing to do with where a company is from. When you start looking into these things you start with the biggest fish first. 

When the investigation was finally up and running, the EU could start to check on what was happening.

Ireland definitely didn't have the right to do as it pleased and in the end it was down to Ireland to re-claim the billions. There are treaties in place and yes, sometimes there are disputes about interpretation/implementation which need to be escalated to higher courts. It happens all the time. And the fines aren't reserved for non-EU companies as a way to top up the EU coffers. 

Country of origin isn't a consideration. Sometimes a ruling will come down on your side. Sometimes it won't. Sometimes an appeal will prosper sometimes it won't.

9secondkox2 said:

That’s the leader we need to protect American companies from abuses overseas. 

The guy isn’t right all the time. But he is most of the time snd that’s better than the competition. 

Just needs a congress and senate to support his vision instead of trying to divide. 

Feel horrible for apple. They’ve really made such effort to produce the best products in the world and safeguard their customers. Then corrupt entities like the EU SEEK to straight up steal for them by changing goalposts whenever they want more cash. Apple and others need someone who will go to bat for them. 

wonkothesane said:

mike1 said:

This is all well and good until something better is developed and all manufacturers are stuck using the old version because the EU mandated a specific connector. Can't wait until the rest of the world moves on to something better/faster/smaller/cheaper and the EU countries are stuck with this.

IMO the issue here is that the EU is an Administration, Not a tech Company, and for sure Not an innovator. Specifying that industry should agree on a a standard is one. Actually specifying which technical solution is a totally different animal. Also you have to understand that this administration is consulted by lobbyists and selected technical experts (I know because I have been there). This does not even ensure the (currently) best technical solution, and never will.
Another consequence is stifling innovation, as the EU administration themselves will do lots of things, but for sure not innovate on that standard.
On the topic of “but they left room for changes” - sure. Have you ever witnessed how long it actually takes to adopt changes ion that administration? By the time they adopt a new standard the trench world is already beyond that, I would bet.

For me an example of FAFO. 

mike1 said:

This is all well and good until something better is developed and all manufacturers are stuck using the old version because the EU mandated a specific connector. Can't wait until the rest of the world moves on to something better/faster/smaller/cheaper and the EU countries are stuck with this.