melgross
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Apple's C1 modem breaks no records for speed, but is exceptionally power efficient
Sure. But sages in the j duster also said that Apple couldn’t build a phone. They couldn’t make SoCs and that they couldn’t make a lot of things they ended up excelling in. There’s no reason why they can’t do the same with modems. You always underestimate them.avon b7 said:
To say Huawei is not a 'gorilla' in 5G is crazy. Utterly absurd.melgross said:
I think you’re overdoing it. The big gorilla in the business is Qualcomm’s, not Huawei. It doesn’t matter anyway. I wasn’t stating that Apple would be a major player here, just that they would be ine.avon b7 said:
Apple only has a small fraction of 5G patents, most of which were acquired with the Intel deal.melgross said:
You’re right about Apple not planning to make their own modems. But with Intel having some problems and Apple deciding the bad publicity from using them wasn’t worth it, they likely sighed and said that “We might as well make our own.”. Being that they had lots of experience with complex chips. They probably thought that it wouldn’t be THAT hard. Ten, fifteen years ago, that would have been true, but today’s modems (transceivers) are far more complex. There’s no real question as to whether Apple;s modems will be fully competitive. They’ve got lots of their own patents and they’re getting more daily. All modem manufacturers license from each other. They will be licensing from Apple too.avon b7 said:
Complete vertical integration is impossible and wholly undesirable. Apple doesn't have the capacity to produce everything.ApplePoor said:Apple's goal is complete vertical integration. Best example is Ford's Rouge Plant in Detroit where the iron ore from the far end of Lake Superior arrived by ship arrived at one end of the plant and a finished vehicle came out the other end. Little outside products are used to make the finished product.
So Apple is tooling up to make their own modems (which may also be used elsewhere like in their future computers and iPads) and their own versions of the Bluetooth and WiFi chips. Their economies of scale production would increase their new profits over time by not paying others to build the same products.
Apple is trying to reduce dependencies in some key areas and strategically that makes sense.
Producing a homegrown modem is a good example but let's not forget that it wasn't part of the plan. It was an external failure (Intel).
It looks like the C1 is a 5G modem but 5.5G is already rolling out and 5.5G capable modems are rumoured to be shipping soon.
The rumoured Wi-Fi chipset may be another example of a homegrown effort but Broadcom will probably be playing a part in that.
In either case, they still have to pay Qualcomm, Huawei et al for patent related questions.
Huawei charges a flat fee device charge of $2.50 for 5G and $1.50 for 4G for $0.50c for Wi-Fi 6. For IoT there are different classes but it's around $0.75c. I have no idea what Qualcomm is charging Apple.
Huawei licenced it SEP patents to Apple in 2015.
There is no way Apple will catch Huawei, Qualcomm, Nokia, Ericsson, Samsung etc because they aren't in the same core business (Apple isn't making ICT infrastructure).
Huawei is also using its accumulated know-how (has been for years now) to give it an edge. Way back in 2017 they were comparing things like cell tower hand overs at high speed to that of Apple devices, or the ability to retain a signal in problematic scenarios like tunnels under rivers. More recently (last couple of years) we have seen their phones doing high orbit voice calling (something that Apple claimed was challenging).
Then is their experience in things like metamaterials, MIMO, beam forming and AI for signal stability etc
No matter what patents Apple get, they still have to end up being accepted by standards bodies. Apple has a seat at the table now but that will be for 6G - not 5G.
I know that Apple is working on a research project in Europe with Huawei and others on 6G network sensing. If all goes well, 6G should be here around 2030. Network sensing is going to be an important part of 6G and I believe Huawei has been demoing its advances at MWC this week (in a smart home setting).
The last time I read anything about Huawei/Apple cross-licencing was a few years ago when it was rumoured that Apple was licencing almost 800 patents from Huawei while Huawei was licencing around 40 from Apple.
In these cases I usually refer to Huawei, Qualcomm, Ericsson, Samsung etc in the same breath.
It's a dynamic situation.
https://www.lexisnexisip.com/resources/5g-revolution/
https://www.greyb.com/blog/5g-companies/
"Huawei is leading the charge in 5G research and development, holding a considerable number of patents related to this technology. It plays a crucial role in shaping various standards through its involvement with the 3rd Generation Partnership Project (3GPP). The company has made notable advancements in areas like massive MIMO (Multiple Input, Multiple Output), beamforming, network slicing, and 5G NR (New Radio), which are essential for enhancing mobile network efficiency, capacity, and speed.Huawei supplies vital hardware for building 5G networks, including base stations, small cells, antennas, and core network components. Its solutions are utilized by telecom operators globally, forming the backbone of the 5G rollout. The Huawei 5G Radio Access Network (RAN) is among the most widely adopted systems, with deployments across countries like China, Europe, the Middle East, and parts of Africa.Beyond infrastructure, Huawei is advancing practical applications of 5G across various industries such as smart cities, autonomous driving, industrial IoT, and healthcare. Its capabilities enable high-speed video streaming as well as virtual and augmented reality applications, positioning Huawei as a crucial player in the digital transformation of industries worldwide."
https://www.techsciresearch.com/blog/who-s-leading-the-5g-charge-a-look-at-the-top-5-global-players/4600.html
Sometimes the 'gorillas' have faced off:
https://www.wired.com/story/huawei-5g-polar-codes-data-breakthrough/
Rankings change every year. There are also different metrics to choose from.
Apple has a bigger patent porfolio now, mostly through acquisitions than through in-house development. There is a very clear reason for that. It had little to no experience in the field and far less accumulated know-how.
However, it remains a fraction of what's out there in patent terms. That was the point.
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Apple updates iPad Air with faster M3 processor
I have to disagree in that one. It wouldn’t cost that much less, if anything, to do what you want, possibly even more. Then people would complain about an enemic SoC. Heck, some have done that with the M3 here.nubus said:
I would rather have 90 Hz refresh rate, FaceID, and/or spend $50-100 less than this M-series CPU. The Air doesn't have the cooling to benefit from M3. Apple is spending too much on processing power.melgross said:Folks, this is the air. It’s a much cheaper tablet than the pro. What do you expect, a product with equal specs to a much more expensive model? This is a pretty good chip, with a good performance increase over the last model. Stop whining!
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Apple's foldable iPad rumored to get under-display Face ID
My gripe with my new iPad Pro 13” with the cameras mounted on the long side is that they aren’t that good at recognizing my face unless I’m looking at it. I’ve turned the attention for FaceTime feature off a long time ago. My older ones, with the cameras mounted on the short side didn’t have that problem. The annoying thing there is its where I have my hand, so every so often I’d get the little arrow with the message to uncover the camera. But otherwise, it worked fine.
when I was in the Apple Store near me, a few months ago, I mentioned to the Apple fellow I was talking to about this problem and he just smiled. I didn’t expect him to comment, but the smile told me that I wasn’t the first one to mention this. I don’t know why it’s a problem.So putting it under the screen is something I hope won’t make the problem worse. You get used to FaceTime just working.
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iPhone fold predicted to launch in late 2026 with no Face ID
So, if Apple has figured out how to make a screen and protective coating without a crease, that would be big.I’d like to remind people that Apple has its own OLED screen technologies. They are not simply Samsung screens. The low power OLED screens most higher end phones use these days is an Apple technology that Samsung tried to copy for a couple of years before they were successful. Apple’s phones use Apple’s and everyone else’s uses Samsung’s. They are similar, but not exactly the same. Samsung produces many Apple screens, but a lot of the technology in Apple’s screens belong to them.
as far as the phone itself goes, I would consider one. But like a lot of people buying higher end phones, the cameras are a very important reason why I upgrade. So if the cameras are of lessor quality than Apple’s top slab model, I wouldn't be interested. I feel that a lot of people would feel the same way.
as far as how true these rumors are, well, big deal. We all know Apple is working on this. We all know that either they can fix the biggest problems which consist of the crease and the fact that these screens go bad where screens in slab phones don’t, or they won’t come out with a folding phone until they do, or will just give up if they don’t think it’s solvable.
when? A year more or less doesn’t matter. There is no evidence that Apple is losing serious sales over this. If they lose a million sales a year, that sounds like a lot, but they discontinue sales if models only sell 3-5 million units a year, so I don’t believe that loss bothers a company that sells 220 million phones a year. In fact, unless this phone can be additive to Apple’s sales in a way that’s profitable, I doubt they will bother bringing it out even if they think they can do it. -
Apple's C1 modem breaks no records for speed, but is exceptionally power efficient
You’re right about Apple not planning to make their own modems. But with Intel having some problems and Apple deciding the bad publicity from using them wasn’t worth it, they likely sighed and said that “We might as well make our own.”. Being that they had lots of experience with complex chips. They probably thought that it wouldn’t be THAT hard. Ten, fifteen years ago, that would have been true, but today’s modems (transceivers) are far more complex. There’s no real question as to whether Apple;s modems will be fully competitive. They’ve got lots of their own patents and they’re getting more daily. All modem manufacturers license from each other. They will be licensing from Apple too.avon b7 said:
Complete vertical integration is impossible and wholly undesirable. Apple doesn't have the capacity to produce everything.ApplePoor said:Apple's goal is complete vertical integration. Best example is Ford's Rouge Plant in Detroit where the iron ore from the far end of Lake Superior arrived by ship arrived at one end of the plant and a finished vehicle came out the other end. Little outside products are used to make the finished product.
So Apple is tooling up to make their own modems (which may also be used elsewhere like in their future computers and iPads) and their own versions of the Bluetooth and WiFi chips. Their economies of scale production would increase their new profits over time by not paying others to build the same products.
Apple is trying to reduce dependencies in some key areas and strategically that makes sense.
Producing a homegrown modem is a good example but let's not forget that it wasn't part of the plan. It was an external failure (Intel).
It looks like the C1 is a 5G modem but 5.5G is already rolling out and 5.5G capable modems are rumoured to be shipping soon.
The rumoured Wi-Fi chipset may be another example of a homegrown effort but Broadcom will probably be playing a part in that.
In either case, they still have to pay Qualcomm, Huawei et al for patent related questions.
