melgross
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Apple's iPhone processor evolution hints at how powerful the 'M2' will be
Of course they do. But that’s very different than paying for designs, as you said they were doing, they are not paying for designs. It’s also believed, but nobody knows from certain, that as a founder, Apple has their license in perpetuity.bsimpsen said:
Apple pays for the Architectural license. As instructions are added to the instruction set, I expect ARM will want compensation for them. To the extent those instructions support ancillary functions like AI, I expect Apple might not adopt them.melgross said:
Apple doesn’t use ARM designs, so they don’t pay for them. Apple’s designs are entirely home grown. They have an architectural license which means they use the instruction set, basically.bsimpsen said:I don't know the particulars of Apple's ARM architecture license, but if royalty payments for older versions decline over time, or if payments for new versions increase over time, there's financial incentive for Apple to drift away from ARM into its own custom designs. Whether the ARM design teams can keep Apple interested is an open question.
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Apple's iPhone processor evolution hints at how powerful the 'M2' will be
Apple competes evenly in single core speeds. They just haven’t, as yet, produced chips with the large numbers of cores AMD and Intel have. Supposedly they will for high end computers shortly. Apple is relying on shared memory for a number of their significant performance gains, as well as the neural engine, machine learning cores, video and graphics encoders and decoders, etc. The chips pull more than their weight because of that. But when we do see 20 core chips then they’ll compete easily against the other high core count chips from AMD and Intel.tenthousandthings said:
Yes, the author sidestepped that by saying the M2 will be on the N4P process and telling us how much of an improvement that is expected to be over the (N5) process of the A14 & M1, but he does it without mentioning that the A15 is on the N5P process, not the N4P, so his comparison between A14 and A15, while useful, only goes so far.blastdoor said:
I think the MacWorld article is pretty reasonable and if it's wrong, the most likely way to be wrong is for the M2 to be based on the A16 rather than the A15.
The other thing that I’d quibble with is the assumptions he makes about Apple’s ability to compete with high-end desktop GPUs — I mean, that remains to be seen. I don’t think it’s coincidental that Apple announced a ray-tracing Metal API at WWDC 2020, with development active and ongoing. You might want to wait until Apple releases an actual Pro desktop M1 graphics configuration before you start making assumptions about how far behind the competition they are…
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New Mac mini with M2 & M2 Pro - all the rumors so far
I’m not so sure about that. The RAM sits on the substrate, not on the chip. Apple offers several levels of RAM. The RAM might very well be upgradable. If Apple placed sockets for the RAM instead of soldering them to the substrate, the RAM could have been upgradable. Since we really have no idea as to what Apple’s R&D is working on, or what they are trying to accomplish in the longer term with this concept, we can’t say that something is, or isn’t possible.MplsP said:
Sadly I think you’re correct. The unified memory SOC architecture means memory couldn’t really be upgraded even if it wasn’t soldered in place and I t’s been years since any Apple consumer computer has allowed GPU upgrades and Apple has steadfastly refused to allow hard drive upgrades. The latter are conceivable upgradable but Apple has made it clear they don’t plan on making them so.lkrupp said:
The current M1 Mini is not upgradeable and you are living in the past. If you still want to tinker and upgrade then Apple is no longer for you. it’s as simple as that. When the entire line is transitioned to the M1 SOC paradigm that will be the end of upgradeability, except perhaps for the high end Mac Pro. So make the move away now so you are not disappointed.lucidcg said:
- The mac mini has had an internal GPU to keep things neat & clean for about a decade. My intel mac mini server has two hard drives, intel chips, two user upgradeable RAM slots AND an internal PSU. That's plenty of added hardware. If all that can be squeezed into a tiny mac mini in 2014, it is objectively a regression to require an external power brick in 2022.lkrupp said:Why? An internal power supply takes up space and by far generates the most heat of any component. External power supply means additional hardware can be added. I respectfully disagree with your take on this.
As for opening it up, that’s a non-issue. With the advent of the M1 SOC you can’t add RAM, you can’t install a bigger SSD, it’s all on the M1,so why would you need to open it up? You do know that RAM and Storage are fixed and not upgradeable, period, right?
- Your second line disputes your first line. You cite expandability as the key to the mac mini moving to external power...yet in the same breath state that the new mac mini will not / should not be expandable. 🤔If it is not expandable - than it should certainly not need external power per your logic!
- Apple is going to have to solve the expandability issue for internal storage for the Mac Pro. If it is to be released this year (per Apple's promised roadmap) than they must have solved such a basic necessity for a computer by now. The next Mac Pro must have storage & PCIe expansion to succeed the current Mac Pro (which was the key selling & marketing point over the trashcan Mac).
more RAM means more lines from that RAM to the fabric. If enough lines are there, denser packages of RAM can be used. Apple knows as well as RAM manufacturers how RAM works. They also design their own mobos, and have designed connectors as well, as we know. If they wanted to make RAM upgradable, they could design an appropriate mini connector, provide the extra lines, and offer RAM packages. They have done so in the past. -
New Mac mini with M2 & M2 Pro - all the rumors so far
POE doesn’t supply enough power. It’s good for small, low power devices. It’s an interesting thought though.roundaboutnow said:
What if...sflocal said:I have a maxed-out 2018 Mac Mini and love the compact design. I'm not in the market for one yet, for a while but I really hope Apple goes all-out on providing an updated Mini at a price point that makes it competitive, along with making it affordable for users that do not want an iMac or MacBook.I can see server farms buying palette-loads of these for cloud services.
The Mac mini could be powered via PoE. That sure would simplify a lot of rack wiring! -
New Mac mini with M2 & M2 Pro - all the rumors so far
I don’t mind the idea at all. It’s no big deal after all, and actually gives about twice the cord length between the computer and the wall..tht said:It needs an intake and exhaust for the cooling system. The vent in the rear-bottom is maybe the exhaust where hot air comes out. So perhaps the intakes are hidden underneath the skids. This still isn't great for cooling either way. It could be like the intakes for the MBP, with slots in the bottom corners. Wish the air flow was front to back like it is in the Mac Pro. A square footprint limits them on having a good cooling system. Hoping the footprint is identical to the current model at least.
Really don't like an external power supply, in the iMac 24, and this if it has it. I even include laptop power bricks in my hatred list.
I despised the one on the Xbox One we had. What a piece of shit hardware that Xbox was, where the external power brick had to be "reset" to fix some of its issues. Microsoft probably earned 20% margins on it, at least.
Otherwise, this might be what I get after the 2013 iMac 27 goes kaput. A port extender dock, and two miniStacks all stacked on top of each other sounds reasonably tidy, but it will require 3, possibly 4, external power bricks with some arrangement shenanigans for the power strip.
on small, or thin devices,, removing the power supply has several advantages, other than the bulk. One is temperatures. A good deal of the heat is coming from that. In an Intel Mac, where the electronics produce a fair amount of heat, it doesn’t matter as much, but here, the power supply is likely producing more heat when the machine is being used heavily, than the rest of it. So eliminating that allows easier cooling overall, and more efficient use of the chips in the machine as they don’t have to contend with that excess heat, allowing somewhat higher performance.
secondly, power supplies produce electronic noise which affects the circuits. Removing that noise also allows for better performance and simplifies design as reduced shielding allows for easier air flow and less worries over interference.
