foregoneconclusion

ilarynx said:

foregoneconclusion said:

ilarynx said:

foregoneconclusion said:

The governor of California is going to call Trump’s bluff by ignoring the federal tariff and negotiate directly with other countries on tariffs. Seems like a decent strategy considering that the Trump tariffs are entirely dependent on the claim that the national debt has created a national emergency that gives the president the power to levy tariffs. In other words, the White House is likely violating the law and California is going to respond in kind.

Not an option, according to the Constitution. 

Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution explicitly says, “The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, … but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.”

I strongly recommend reading the U.S. Constitution. Frequently. You can't preserve, protect, or defend, something you don't know. 

https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs

LOL...are you aware of the infamous Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act? That was a bill that passed Congress and was signed by Hoover. Notice that it's CONGRESS that is levying the tariffs and not Herbert Hoover. Which means Trump doesn't have the power to levy tariffs under the Constitution either. The current administration is trying to claim that the national debt has created a national emergency that gives him the power to do it himself. But that is obvious b.s. considering Trump wants to make the $2 trillion tax cut from 2017 permanent + add trillions more in new tax cuts. All of that will explode the national debt to new heights. 

Basically CA is saying "if you're going to pretend to have the authority to negotiate tariffs by yourself then we're going to pretend that we can do that as well". 

First, "infamous" Smoot-Hawley tariff?

Second, everything I posted was accurate. No governor can negotiate with other countries on tariffs as per the Constitution. The Executive branch cannot implement the tariffs (as you noted), but it can enforce the laws/tariffs passed by Congress and approved by the Executive branch. 

The current administration is trying to claim that the national debt has created a national emergency that gives him the power to do it himself. But that is obvious b.s.

True. 

Basically CA is saying "if you're going to pretend to have the authority to negotiate tariffs by yourself then we're going to pretend that we can do that as well". 

Well, that "two wrongs make it right and/or ok" approach is a bad and dangerous approach with respect to the Constitution. Also, the current regime has declared an emergency as per:
 
International Emergency Economic Powers Act of 1977. The act allows the president to declare an emergency under the National Emergency Act (NEA) and then use his extensive economic powers to regulate or prohibit imports. The CRS says that President Trump was the first chief executive to use this act in February 2025, when he announced tariffs on Canada, China, and Mexico. The emergency stated by the president can be terminated at this request, or by a joint resolution of Congress.
 - https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/how-congress-delegates-its-tariff-powers-to-the-president

Improperly or not (it IS improper, objectively), Congress has the power to rescind the declaration. The current Republican controlled congress won't do that though. They've found a gap in the checks-and-balances between the 3 branches our Founders created, and are exploiting that to intentionally cause harm to the nation. Vlad couldn't be happier. 

Yes, Smoot-Hawley is "infamous" because it was a key factor that led to the Great Depression. And I think your approach to what is proper/improper for states to be doing in response to a largely lawless administration is naive at best. This is a federal administration that is consistently losing in federal court and ignoring federal court orders. The courts are a co-equal branch of government. IMO, once the executive goes rogue and ignores a co-equal branch then you have a Constitutional crisis and the states should be using every tool available to protect themselves. If anything, CA saying that they want to do an end-around on the tariffs is much more responsible from a governing perspective than what the federal government is currently doing. CA's state government is trying to protect the residents of the state from lawbreakers, i.e., the current federal administration. 

And note that the GOP/Trump use of IEEPA started with countries that were following the trade agreements that had been negotiated by the 1st Trump administration. That can't possibly be considered an "emergency". There is literally video of Trump saying how great those agreements were compared to NAFTA and TPP. But now it's an "emergency" for Canada, Mexico and China to be following them. Totally insane. The IEEPA also requires the president to be in regular consultation with Congress which is obviously not happening. Another violation. 

ilarynx said:

foregoneconclusion said:

The governor of California is going to call Trump’s bluff by ignoring the federal tariff and negotiate directly with other countries on tariffs. Seems like a decent strategy considering that the Trump tariffs are entirely dependent on the claim that the national debt has created a national emergency that gives the president the power to levy tariffs. In other words, the White House is likely violating the law and California is going to respond in kind.

Not an option, according to the Constitution. 

Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution explicitly says, “The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, … but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.”

I strongly recommend reading the U.S. Constitution. Frequently. You can't preserve, protect, or defend, something you don't know. 

https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs

LOL...are you aware of the infamous Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act? That was a bill that passed Congress and was signed by Hoover. Notice that it's CONGRESS that is levying the tariffs and not Herbert Hoover. Which means Trump doesn't have the power to levy tariffs under the Constitution either. The current administration is trying to claim that the national debt has created a national emergency that gives him the power to do it himself. But that is obvious b.s. considering Trump wants to make the $2 trillion tax cut from 2017 permanent + add trillions more in new tax cuts. All of that will explode the national debt to new heights. 

Basically CA is saying "if you're going to pretend to have the authority to negotiate tariffs by yourself then we're going to pretend that we can do that as well". 

DAalseth said:

foregoneconclusion said:

The governor of California is going to call Trump’s bluff by ignoring the federal tariff and negotiate directly with other countries on tariffs. Seems like a decent strategy considering that the Trump tariffs are entirely dependent on the claim that the national debt has created a national emergency that gives the president the power to levy tariffs. In other words, the White House is likely violating the law and California is going to respond in kind.

I question that. States Rights are one thing, but international trade, including treaties and tariffs are federal jurisdiction. I question if Cal can just go their own way, refuse to take part and negotiate their own agreements. That would be a Constitutional Law question, but it’s my impression that won’t stand scrutiny. 

That's the point though: CA is going to do exactly what the Trump administration is doing...play fast and loose with Constitutional law. Fight fire with fire. Trump's legal ability to levy tariffs is no less flimsy per the Constitution. If the White House is just going to break laws every day then the states can counter by breaking the law themselves. 

badmonk said:

Despite protests to the contrary, are we sure DJT and the car aren’t Russian operatives?  They sure act like it.
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The sad thing is if they just did nothing and Trump just golfed, the economy would have been fine.  This is an economic 9/11.

Trump would find himself falling out of a high window if he just golfed and didn't try to sabotage the United States. 

The governor of California is going to call Trump’s bluff by ignoring the federal tariff and negotiate directly with other countries on tariffs. Seems like a decent strategy considering that the Trump tariffs are entirely dependent on the claim that the national debt has created a national emergency that gives the president the power to levy tariffs. In other words, the White House is likely violating the law and California is going to respond in kind.