maestro64

gatorguy said:

maestro64 said:

dysamoria said:

maestro64 said:

Folks, 

Lithium and Cobalt come from various sources around the world, I have no idea if all these mines regions use the most ethical methods, but Congo is not the only source.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-top-lithium-producing-countries-in-the-world.html
https://investingnews.com/daily/resource-investing/battery-metals-investing/cobalt-investing/top-cobalt-producing-countries-congo-china-canada-russia-australia/

Grant it Congo is number 1 for Cobalt, but there is lots of other sources. China is the largest investor in the Congo for mining keep this in mind.

There is no proof Apple or any of these company actually source out of the Congo. The problem is many time the minerals from many regions get combined during the entire supply chain process. Even if Apple required their supplier not to use Congo sources minerals it becomes very hard to isolate the Congo materials. One way Apple and many companies use to monitor if Congo minerals show up in their supply chain is to test material for radio isotopes since each region of the world have specific isotopes in their minerals. But if any supply chain at any time had Congo minerals or neighboring countries in there supply, it will contaminate the entire supply chain's isotopes. Using these markers is only good if the supply chain never had Congo minerals.

They are suing Apple since it get clicks and create outrage in the outrage culture. Since they would have to prove Apple supply chain specifically sources out of the Congo. I personally suspect Apple and other US companies requires its supply chain not to specifically source out the Congo due to the Current US required on the Conflict Mineral reports requirements each year. We know that Apple has been focused on responsible sourcing for many years even before the Conflict Mineral requirement came in 4 yrs ago.

“Outrage culture”...? It’s all just the same to you? Child labor, sexual assault, slave wages, racism... It’s all just an undesirable irritation to you? We should all just allow every unethical and abusive act to go on and on, so that there’s none of this bothersome outrage for you to know about?

I’ve heard it said that “If you’re not outraged, you’re not paying attention”.

I’ll offer a variation: “If you’re not outraged, it’s because you’re too comfortable with your own unrecognized privilege, or you’re just plain callous.”

Then there’s this one: “All that is needed for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.”

I’ll offer up this variation: “Nothing bad gets fixed when people are bullied into silence by contentment culture”.

You're outrage because you are just finding out about this, because you did not have your eyes open all along. Stop being outrage, do something about it...

A year ago I walked in to a plant and definitely saw people under 18 working they were 14 to be exactly. I questioned it and was informed the parents signed the work wavier which is required by state law. These kids was working full time and was no longer in school since the parent pulled the kids out of school after completing 8th grade which again is allowed under US & State law, and these kids entire pay check goes to the parents. So do you force this company not to hire 14 yrs old and take the means away from these families to earn enough money or do you make sure the company does not take advantage of the kids. This company was following the laws.

Then as a responsible adult YOU should take action.

If what you say is true then the factory was acting illegally and you're letting them get by it. Period.

Working full-time in a factory at the age of 14 is illegal in every US State, no question. So I'll suggest that what you are claiming did not happen, at best you were mistaken, and if not you are being complicit with your silence. Robbing children of an education thus almost ensuring that the poverty cycle will continue in return for a pittance minimum wage paycheck now is not acceptable. 
https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/youthlabor/agerequirements

Here is problem, this was in the Amish community and they work in local business at the age of 14 as I pointed out they are allow since the Amish communities are not subject to all Federal laws. The Amish who work for themselves also do not pay SS or Medicare either they are exempted since they take care of their own and do not rely on any government assistance. There is a supreme court case on this. https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/rulings/oasi/45/SSR82-44-oasi-45.html

This is my point, you have people like yourself who think they understand the laws and do not know about all the exceptions. My son had his own business at 14, we set up an LLC for the business and he cleaned family own businesses. Guess what the government never said a thing about him being 14 filing his taxes and paying SS and Medicare, he also hired his friends to work for him as well. My son's roommate in college had his own business since he was 12 and was generating couple Million in revenue while in college. The government does not care if kids work if they are paying their taxes.

BTW, The Amish have more money than most American's in the middle class, most all of them pay cash for their homes or land they buy, they do not borrow money. They may not be educated past the 8th grade but they understand business and money better than most people in this country.

To your point, I did my due diligence and found out no laws were being broken in the Amish community where these people were working. They were not working full time I believe they were working 20 to 32 hours at most. Just because you think it is wrong in one places does not make it wrong in other places. Standards are subject to the community for which you are in. This is why when American's travel outside the US you hear about the ugly American this is because Americans judge others on US standards not the local standard they are visiting. You may think that Amish making their kids work at 14 and not completing school is wrong, but it is allowed and they would argue they have better life than most even not using electricity.

I have been to factories outside the US and seen younger people working and when asked, the factory will show you documents saying the person is 18 or older, in some cases you know they are fake documents but it hard to prove. When you talk to these people they tell you they are supporting their families and such so you know exactly what is going on. Who are we to say this individual can not work to help the family. 

rain22 said:

maestro64 said:

TimothyAllen said:

It's so sad that children are still made to work

Like kids on family run US Farms?

No, not like kids on family run farms. 
Holy shit man... 

Are you saying it is okay for kids to work on farms just because it is family run.

People need to stop being outrages, I worked since I was 5 in number of family businesses and today I have great work ethic and I have seen no harm from it. One of the benefits of working when I was kid I got paid, and had money to spend my friends could not say the same. I work not to help the family make ends meet so we did not have to pay someone else to do what us kids could do.

Also there are lots of kids working around doing lots of various things. Part of the reason kids work is due to family forcing their kids to work since its the only way the family can make enough money to survey. 

BTW there are lots of kids working in mining all over the world, every watch Gold Rush, Parker was working in mine since he was 5, unclear he got paid until we ran the mine himself at 16. Tony Beets kids all work in his mining operations since they were teenagers. There is good and bad examples of kids working. Also all the Amish around the US have their kids working at the age of 16 and younger and they are not always family businesses. BTW when kids in the Amish communities work, they do not get paid it goes to the parents of the kids.

sdw2001 said:

foregoneconclusion said:

Uber is full of it. Their business model was always centered around not having to follow the same laws and regulations that other companies in the same market were required to follow. Their excuse for not following them was simply "our customers use an app" and nothing else. Personally, I find it bizarre that they got away with it as long as they did.

"The same laws and regulations" means "participate in the government-controlled monopoly."   This is not about being "fit and proper."  Nor is it about safety.  It's about money.  Government sets onerous licensing requirements with huge fees.  Once they are in bed with the service providers, they, in turn, block out all competition.   The same has happened in the United States, with taxi medallions.  This is no different than the mafia controlling the trash business.  The only real difference is it's government doing the leg breaking.  

I tend to agree this is mostly about show me the money both for Uber and the government. 

However, in London they have a very high standard for their taxi drives. To drive a taxi in London you have to take classes for 2 yrs, you need to demonstrate by memory the shortest path between two points and the answer could be different at different times of the day. London requires drive to get someone on from point A to point B in the shortest and quickest possible way. Uber only requires you have a divers license, access to a car which is less then 10 yrs old and have cell phone. Does not mean you are getting the best driver or someone who knows and understands the city. At least London can claim they are trying to uphold the higher standard that most people in London have come to expect. Can not say the same in other cities.

No surprise here, I hope Apple and GS go after this guy for slander on the simple fact he is idiot. 

The idiot who filed this tirade complaint, will find out the exact reason he is claiming he and his wife should have the same credit limit, (married, joint tax return, and community state) is the exact reason his wife is being treated as an individual. In the past women credit worthiness was based on joint activity and if the husband had bad credit then the would wife have bad credit and could not leave the marriage since she could not get credit. The discrimination he is complaining about is about women having their own credit history separate from his which was cause by men behaving badly in the past. It sounds like this guy want to control his wife.

gatorguy said:

maestro64 said:

gatorguy said:

sflocal said:

How did this not come up during development?  

Even thousands of beta devices will miss finding that flaw discovered when millions of devices get into the end-consumers hands. There's been several stories on AI in just the the past few months about various bugs/problems in Apple software or products that some members here will proclaim should have been caught in development.

As long as this Samsung one can be quickly addressed via an update rather than languishing as some bugs do it's really no different is it? (I'm probably no more Samsung fan than you are BTW)

Actually, beta testing will miss corner case which are unique to various user environment. however, this issue is not a corner case most people us a screen protector. You would hope Samsung testing team would have put a screen protector on and see how it perform, you would hope they also test with dirty screen and various use case.

I am not saying Apple is perfect, but Samsung has very poor track record on testing their hardware. We all seen their issue front and center which required a number of product recalls.

Samsung, LG and Google all have a habit of releasing something and shortly thereafter needing to roll out a fix for this or that and often something we think should have been caught in development. 

Personally I don't expect the new Pixel 4's to be warmly received at release. Face unlock will need improving, Motion Sense will be more gimmick than useful, even the camera will benefit from a little update.  It'll be hard to properly judge them until two months and a couple of updates in, and by that time the Pixel 4a's will be in the rumor mill. 

We all have so little to really worry about anyway, few of us probably have to worry about where our heads will find a pillow tonight, that every little bothersome thing gets magnified into a world-shaking event. Heck, look no further than our own AI forums for proof of that. 

As person who spent most of my career in product develop unlike most of the Monday morning quarterbacks in the tech media, Yes products get release that the developers wish they had more time to make it perfect. However the issue today is too many product teams are not hardware focus and come from the software development disciplines which they feel if they did not get it right the first time there is always the next software release to fix it. Well that is not true with hardware. Depending on the problem, it could mean a failed product or a costly recall of the product. Google is one of the company who has a very poor track record with hardware, they are too software centric, and think they can fix any problem with software. They also believe that software makes the product, and they can make any generic product into a great product with software features.