k2kw

AppleZulu said:

maestro64 said:

AppleZulu said:

maestro64 said:

Obviously we have people on both sides some say people should be forced to get vaccinated and some that say it is personal choice. For those who are upset the Government/Companies has not forcing people to be vaccinated here is the reason why, this dates back to the 1920 100 years ago. When the government mandate the force sterilization of men and women, a "government mandate medical procedure." This went on for 50 yrs until the another Supreme court finally stop the practice.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell

The venerated Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote the decision upholding the Virginia law that ended a woman's right to be a mother, by saying it was no different than vaccination:

"The judgment finds the facts that have been recited and that Carrie Buck 'is the probable potential parent of socially inadequate offspring, likewise afflicted, that she may be sexually sterilized without detriment to her general health and that her welfare and that of society will be promoted by her sterilization,' and thereupon makes the order. In view of the general declarations of the Legislature and the specific findings of the Court obviously we cannot say as matter of law that the grounds do not exist, and if they exist they justify the result. We have seen more than once that the public welfare may call upon the best citizens for their lives. It would be strange if it could not call upon those who already sap the strength of the State for these lesser sacrifices, often not felt to be such by those concerned, in order to prevent our being swamped with incompetence. It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes. Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 , 25 S. Ct. 358, 3 Ann. Cas. 765. Three generations of imbeciles are enough." 

Holmes cites this case about smallpox vaccine and even claims in this case if the vaccine may not be the best solution and may harm the person for various health reason the government still have right to force you to be vaccinate for community heath reason.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts there has been a lot of except to this law over the years, however, you notice they not willing to use this case law today.

At the Nuremberg trials, Nazi doctors literally cited Buck v. Bell in their own defense. this should make everyone sick.

Buck v. Bell has never been officially overturned. In 1978, however, one victim of forced sterilization sued the State of Oklahoma before the Supreme Court, and won. The decision resulting from Skinner v. Oklahoma created legal obstacles that effectively put a stop to mass compulsory sterilization. 

Everyone in government know about these cases and they know they will go afoul of the law that prevents them from mandating anything medical.

Our government know they can not mandate anything, however, they are making it very hard for businesses to operating unless they mandate vaccination. Case are already making their ways through the court it going to take years but most likely Companies will also run up against the same laws and rights as the government. Notice no one in the media is talking about this and why the government is not mandting. Becuase they do not want you know you have legal rights to do what is in your best interest.

For those who think it is your right to tell others what to do, think again, you have no such right. nether does the government. However, you are free to do what you want to protect yourself and you are free not to associate with people you do not agree with. In this case if you feel you are at risk then get vaccinated and if you do not think that is enough wear the mask or the whole hazmat suit. Nothing I or anyone else is doing is interfering with your ability to protect yourself.

Also company may run afoul under HIPPA, they are not allow to ask anyone about their medial affairs, thus all these volunteer requirements, which are not really volunteer since they are holding your job over your head, most likely will not pass scrutiny once legally challenged.

It will not stop this current government from ignoring the laws of this land and your personal rights they did it with the rent eviction moratorium. They knew they had no legal ground to stop people from being evicted from property they do not own. But government went ahead and did it anyway, Supreme court set them straight, but they again tried to extend the illegal mandate and got told again to stop. This government is only interest in see what they take away from your verse preserving what is rightfully yours.

That is a BS argument. Vaccination mandates are not forced sterilization. Vaccination mandates have been upheld by the courts, including the current Supreme Court. 

Also, HIPPA is not a thing. HIPAA refers to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996. Unless you are part of a healthcare entity, the private protections in HIPAA do not apply. HIPAA does not prevent your employer from asking if you are vaccinated, including asking for proof of it. Even if you are part of a healthcare entity, there are exemptions to restrictions on disclosure of health information as it relates to a public health crisis.

I am tired of BS misinformation being spread on this subject. This misinformation is killing people.

Sorry for my Typo, HIPAA applies to any company providing insurance, they are not allow to know anything about your medical records/condition IE healthcare provider can not provide any information about your health unless you volunteer it yourself thus the reason companies are asking people to self disclose. Again they can not mandate it, your heath matter are your private business and the ADA prohibit someone being fire due to their health as well as other laws. If a company wants proof of vaccination they need to request medical record and you have right not to share that with your imployeer. So it basically the honor system. How do I know this I worked with my companies HR Benfits person and had an issue with the insurance company and HR person made it very clear they were not allow to talk to the insurance company about my medical issue in my case my daughters case, unless I specifically gave permisison to share that specific informaiton, only then could the company know the specifics. HIPAA is broader then just health records being portable, the main part of the law is all records must be private and not to be seen by anyone who is not authorize to view those records.

You obviously did not read the cases, the Buck V Bell relied on the vaccine law from 1902 Jacobson v Massachusetts as justification manidate governement medial procedure and over the years. It has been over written and found to be bad case laws as well as there as except to Jacobson v Massachusetts. If the government thought they had strong standing to mandate and force people they would have envoked Jacobson v Massachusetts and they have not becuase they can not. By the way there are whole communites which as not vaccinate in the country and one of the largest one is the Armish communities in various states. It not BS argument, it is the current state of the laws in this country, if you thing it should be different file a law suit saying your person freedom are infringe by someone not being mandated to be vaccinate see how far that goes. 

The only thing killing people is their own personal responsibility to do rigth thing for themselves. Also what is killing people if their own person health habits but no one is talking about that, this is beyond people who are older and have naturally declining health. If you are going to manadite things which you think is killing people, then mandate no one drive that killed more people prior to this, why not manidate health eating since lots of people die every year from poor health due to poor eating, By the way this effect everyone too since we all pay higher cost becuase its killing people. Tell me how someone getting Covid affect your daily life beside the higher cost we will all now pay.

Wrong. Employers can require vaccination and neither HIPAA nor the ADA prevent that.

https://www.hhs.gov/answers/if-my-employer-requires-proof-of-my-covid-19-vaccination-status/index.html

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210601/eeoc-says-employers-can-require-covid-19-vaccination

If you honestly don't know how people getting Covid affects the daily life of others yet, you will.

beowulfschmidt said:

byronl said:

all these non tesla companies are so far behind in ev technology. i hope apple takes powertrain design and much of the manufacturing processes into its own hands.

It's not necessary for a hypothetical Apple Car to be an all electric one.  In fact, I'd argue that small, fuel efficient gas/diesel or hybrid would be more accessible to more people and be much more flexible than a full electric.

Of course, if Apple is going for "cars as a service", like taxis, busses, Uber, and Lyft, then a full electric might make more sense, but will currently still likely cost more to make and maintain than a gas or hybrid vehicle.

mfryd said:

NYC362 said:

Come on already.  Google and Facebook have been doing this for years.   Suddenly when Apple wants to do the same thing, everyone gets twisted.

It is just like the 1000 gas powered cars that will catch on fire get not a work of national attention, but one Tesla goes up in flames and there's a world wide news bulletin like it's the end of the world. 

While Google and Facebook have been scanning user data for years, they are honest and open about it.  They make their money by selling information they glean about their customers.  Google doesn't charge for Gmail because they learn more about you when you use their services, and hence make more profit selling that higher grade information.

On the other hand, Apple prides itself on protecting the privacy of their customers.  A key sales point in buying into the Apple ecosystem is that Apple does everything they possibly can in order to protect your data.  They even fight court orders requiring them to add back doors to iPhone local encryption.

Under Apple's new policy, every image you upload to your iCloud library will be scanned, and compared against a list of blacklisted images.  If you have too many blacklisted images, you will be reported to the authorities.  

Initially, the blacklist will only contain child porn images.  I can easily imagine a narcissistic leader ordering Apple to add to that list images which are critical to the government.   Imagine a photo of a President that makes him look foolish, shows him in a compromising position, or reveals a public statement to be a lie.  Such a President would have a strong incentive to add these photos to the list.  Remember, Apple doesn't know what the blacklisted photos look like, Apple only has digital fingerprints of these images (it would be illegal for Apple to posses Child Porn, even if it was for a good cause).

Apple fights to keep out back doors because they know that once those tools exist, at some point they will be used inappropriately by the government.  While I applaud Apple's goal of fighting child abuse, I know that once this tool exists, at some point it will be used inappropriately by the government.

One of the key beliefs in the US Constitution is a healthy distrust of government.  We have three branches of government, each to keep watch on the other two.  We have a free press and free speech so that the public can stay informed as to what government is doing.  We have free and fair elections so the people can act as the ultimate watchdog by voting out representatives that are not doing what they should be doing.

I strongly urge Apple to protect the privacy of our images by killing this feature.   At best, it will get the criminals use other services for sharing their personal photos.  At worst, it is a tool that can be used by the government to prevent free speech.

GeorgeBMac said:

Epic must not be doing well in court.   Sounds like they're trying their luck by buying some politicians.

StrangeDays said:

GeorgeBMac said:

godofbiscuits said:

tylersdad said:

I will never understand people who feel the need to bite the hand that feeds. She sounds more like she was pissed about not being able to continue to work remotely, so she trashed her company…which is about as progressive as companies get…for being sexist. 

Unbelievable. She should be grateful she has such an awesome job. There are probably thousands who would gladly take her place. 

You think that a hostile work environment is "such an awesome job"?

You're not in her place.  You have ZERO insight into this.  You're a male, at that.  Apple or any corp isn't "the hand that feeds".  Getting paid is *compensation* for work done.  It's not a gift. It's not a hand out.  It's a contracted agreement.

If someone's dad who knows sh*t about what's really going on with her situation feels free to be sexist and assuming and thinks he knows what's right for her and have nothing to gain or lose, what do you think the possibilities are for others at the Apple who equally do not know her specific circumstance but may have their job performance judged on how their handling of this affects the company?

Have a bit of empathy.  Or of you can't or won't muster that much, try some sympathy.  Still lacking that and feeling a bit sociopathic here?  Silence works.

I have worked with many women. 

The best didn’t get involved in male / female issues - or any such issues.   Instead they put all that they had into doing the best job that they could serving the company.   As a result, they weren’t harassed.  They were valued and respected. 

Admittedly, I was fortunate to work for some great companies with great management - where people like this were simply not tolerated by staff or by management. 

What you just said: "I have worked with females. We didn't harass the females if they kept quiet."

You dudes aren't even aware of how fucked up you come off.

And boy, what a collection of corporate bootlickers. Yeah Apple is not a golden god, it's just an employer. There is an exchange of compensation for value creation. They aren't parental units.