jumpcutter

Mike Wuerthele said:

jumpcutter said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

jumpcutter said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

jumpcutter said:

I have read all these comments about the Macbook Pro's redesign. Many like it. Many do not. Technically, it's a marvel but it is a limited machine. No way of upgrading the machine after purchase. I heard the MBP's design was based off of the Macbook which is a lower grade computer than the MBP. The Macbook "Pro" is just glorified Macbook with a "Pro" designation. That I feel is the incorrect thought process. The Macbook Pro should be based off of the Macbook Pro not a lower grade machine then tack on the "Pro" label on it. That is a misrepresentation of this computer. Basically a con job by Apple. This allows Apple to raise the prices because it has a "Pro" attached to it's name. "Pro" machines are machines that can be upgraded by it's owner if necessary. Professional computer users have a budget! Apple thinks the "pros" have an unlimited supply of money so it is okay for them to build the MBP as a throwaway appliance. An expensive appliance. Apple is actually taking it's customers for a ride. I am sorry I will not be taking that ride with the Apple zealots. I do not care what the Apple fanatics say or how they try to insult my point of view. I have owned Apple products for at least 20 years or so and I will not be anymore. Apple has changed too much. The pro market is not represented by them. Watch out for this iPad "Pro." It looks like the same formula as the MBP. Disappointing behavior Apple.

You need to check your facts. 

"I heard the MBP's design was based off of the Macbook which is a lower grade computer than the MBP." -- this is totally false. The chassis was engineered with techniques developed for the MacBook, but that's the beginning and end of it.

""Pro" machines are machines that can be upgraded by it's owner if necessary." -- It may be your definition, but it's not a good one.

By all means. If Apple isn't doing what you need it to do, then get what does. Your chain of thought is disjointed, though, and makes a lot of assumptions about intent that aren't accurate.

Let's take this rebuttal point by point. The MBP design was based off of the Macbook. The chassis was engineered with techniques developed for the Macbook... You are agreeing with me but... I do not understand why you did not finish your thought.

My "Pro" machine machine definition was not a good one for you. What is a good one.

My assumptions are what I have observed Apple do over the years. If these assumptions are not accurate please inform me or is my chain of thought too disjointed for you.

At least you did not use profanity to express yourself. Thank you for that.  

I never curse. On the forums, anyway. And, I was in the military for about a decade, so I can untangle just about everything.

"Chassis developed based off techniques developed for the MacBook" I thought was relatively self-explanatory -- and I am not agreeing with your assumption about something you heard. The techniques involved are aluminum milling and casting. That has zero to do with motherboard design, and the electronics associated with it. In no way is the MBP just an amped-up MacBook, and that's really obvious.

How does "Pro" mean "I can upgrade it?" "Pro" seems to me to mean "I can make money, efficiently" with this. MBP owners can move data at 40GBps. Not just from one port, but either two or four, depending on model. Retina display. You name it.

Go back a page or two and look at my post regarding repairability and service numbers. Take a look at that.

Your train of thought is that the machine isn't upgradeable, so Apple is taking its users for a ride (somehow) with machines that actually need service less often. Plus somehow, 20 years of Apple products somehow entitles you to a machine you like. That's the disjointed part.

Like I've said like five times in this conversation. I'd like socketed processors, and RAM, and socketed NVMe. Hell, after work tonight, I'm going to put in dual six-core processors in a 5,1 Mac Pro for fun. Most readers of AI want these kinds of things. We are one percent of 12 percent of Apple's market.

We're not Apple's target market anymore, and Apple doesn't owe us anything for loyalty.

A tool is a tool. If Apple's not the right one for you, then tell them as best as you can, and move on. Just be sure that your justification is appropriate and based on facts -- you owe that to yourself.

The chassis development of a any computer must consider motherboard design and the electronics associated with it. It is a total concept when a computer is being built.

Apple defines "Pro" as "high end hardware for customers who need to run a Pro application." Apple used to make high end hardware that was more flexible and upgradeable.
Apple has taken ability away. Apple forces it's customers to purchase a fully loaded machine when they possibly do not need it. Apple sales encourages the customer to buy a maxed out machine because then you are future proofing your machine. I feel that's wrong. My needs were different because I needed to upgrade to more RAM than what Apple was configuring. 16GB RAM on the MBP, I was hoping for 32GB RAM if I needed it but no flexibility.

We are Apple's target market because the Mac was not eliminated. Apple has not eliminated any "Pro" machines...as a matter of fact they keep adding more for example, iPad Pro and now the iMac Pro.  I am sure they added these devices because .... You know, I do not know. I guess I am too disjointed.  Do you know why?

You keep playing fast and loose with actual facts. When they're presented to you, politely and without snark, you keep applying malicious intent where there is none.

If you can't see the math behind one percent of 12 percent of Apple's sales meaning almost nothing to Apple, there's not much more I can help you out with, I'm afraid.

If you think that learning a technique in to build one device and applying that same fabrication technique to another enclosure means the machines are the same, then I have to assume you're unwilling to actually have a conversation about it. I can build a bird house with a saw, a hammer, some nails, and some wood. That doesn't mean that's that's all I can build.

Sorry you're dissatisfied, and think Apple's out to get you. It is what it is. Tell Apple you don't like it, then don't buy anything new. Be sure to tell them you've been buying Apple for 20 years, and won't anymore because the Intel Kaby Lake processor doesn't support 32GB of LPDDR3 RAM, and Apple doesn't want to shorten the battery life by hours to suit you. 

Don't tell an Apple sales clerk. Tim Cook's customer service email address was tim_cook@apple.com the last time I checked. Emails get responded to on occasion.

If you can convince enough people to go along with you, maybe Apple will change direction.

And yes, you're right. They are adding more Pro hardware with the iMac Pro and a new Mac Pro at some point. But you know what? There's still no easy way for us one percenters to upgrade the iMac Pro. They sealed and glued it up.

And do you know why? I do. Because IBM, and Deloitte, and their corporate partners wanted it. They don't do upgrades. They toss computers on desks like appliances. Tell me again how we're Apple's target market.

I'll be happy to continue this conversation if it's actually that. I'm concerned that you're not actually listening, though. 

I get that you're not getting what you want. I just don't think you actually want to understand why.

I am not playing fast and loose with actual facts. My intent is not malicious at all. I am getting good feedback from my opinions. 

I understand math very well. If 1% of 12% means nothing to Apple then they should discontinue the products. I was not talking about their sales anyway.

Learning a technique in building a device or devices can only help build other devices. I never said the machines were the same. I said the new MBP was a "glorified" Macbook which is a less powerful machine than the MBP.

I am disappointed not dissatisfied with Apple. No, Apple is not out to get me personally. I have written to Apple using their "Product Feedback" section of their website and I get no receipt or acknowledgement of my feedback. I figured my feedback was not delivered to the proper channels or just simply deleted. Apple really does not care about it's customers from what I see. Maybe I am wrong.

About the "pro" machines not being able to be upgraded because their corporate partners wanting it. Well, you are probably correct about that. i can not find any information about this point. If that is the case, why should everyone deal with this practice of not upgrading. If we are not the target market, then maybe Apple should discontinue the product or just make those non upgradeable computers for their corporate partners. Apple used to make the eMac for schools many years ago. 

It sounds like you work for AI or Apple or something because of your wanting to justify/explain Apple's strategy. Thank you for the conversation. It's been very educational.

Mike Wuerthele said:

jumpcutter said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

jumpcutter said:

I have read all these comments about the Macbook Pro's redesign. Many like it. Many do not. Technically, it's a marvel but it is a limited machine. No way of upgrading the machine after purchase. I heard the MBP's design was based off of the Macbook which is a lower grade computer than the MBP. The Macbook "Pro" is just glorified Macbook with a "Pro" designation. That I feel is the incorrect thought process. The Macbook Pro should be based off of the Macbook Pro not a lower grade machine then tack on the "Pro" label on it. That is a misrepresentation of this computer. Basically a con job by Apple. This allows Apple to raise the prices because it has a "Pro" attached to it's name. "Pro" machines are machines that can be upgraded by it's owner if necessary. Professional computer users have a budget! Apple thinks the "pros" have an unlimited supply of money so it is okay for them to build the MBP as a throwaway appliance. An expensive appliance. Apple is actually taking it's customers for a ride. I am sorry I will not be taking that ride with the Apple zealots. I do not care what the Apple fanatics say or how they try to insult my point of view. I have owned Apple products for at least 20 years or so and I will not be anymore. Apple has changed too much. The pro market is not represented by them. Watch out for this iPad "Pro." It looks like the same formula as the MBP. Disappointing behavior Apple.

You need to check your facts. 

"I heard the MBP's design was based off of the Macbook which is a lower grade computer than the MBP." -- this is totally false. The chassis was engineered with techniques developed for the MacBook, but that's the beginning and end of it.

""Pro" machines are machines that can be upgraded by it's owner if necessary." -- It may be your definition, but it's not a good one.

By all means. If Apple isn't doing what you need it to do, then get what does. Your chain of thought is disjointed, though, and makes a lot of assumptions about intent that aren't accurate.

Let's take this rebuttal point by point. The MBP design was based off of the Macbook. The chassis was engineered with techniques developed for the Macbook... You are agreeing with me but... I do not understand why you did not finish your thought.

My "Pro" machine machine definition was not a good one for you. What is a good one.

My assumptions are what I have observed Apple do over the years. If these assumptions are not accurate please inform me or is my chain of thought too disjointed for you.

At least you did not use profanity to express yourself. Thank you for that.  

I never curse. On the forums, anyway. And, I was in the military for about a decade, so I can untangle just about everything.

"Chassis developed based off techniques developed for the MacBook" I thought was relatively self-explanatory -- and I am not agreeing with your assumption about something you heard. The techniques involved are aluminum milling and casting. That has zero to do with motherboard design, and the electronics associated with it. In no way is the MBP just an amped-up MacBook, and that's really obvious.

How does "Pro" mean "I can upgrade it?" "Pro" seems to me to mean "I can make money, efficiently" with this. MBP owners can move data at 40GBps. Not just from one port, but either two or four, depending on model. Retina display. You name it.

Go back a page or two and look at my post regarding repairability and service numbers. Take a look at that.

Your train of thought is that the machine isn't upgradeable, so Apple is taking its users for a ride (somehow) with machines that actually need service less often. Plus somehow, 20 years of Apple products somehow entitles you to a machine you like. That's the disjointed part.

Like I've said like five times in this conversation. I'd like socketed processors, and RAM, and socketed NVMe. Hell, after work tonight, I'm going to put in dual six-core processors in a 5,1 Mac Pro for fun. Most readers of AI want these kinds of things. We are one percent of 12 percent of Apple's market.

We're not Apple's target market anymore, and Apple doesn't owe us anything for loyalty.

A tool is a tool. If Apple's not the right one for you, then tell them as best as you can, and move on. Just be sure that your justification is appropriate and based on facts -- you owe that to yourself.

The chassis development of a any computer must consider motherboard design and the electronics associated with it. It is a total concept when a computer is being built.

Apple defines "Pro" as "high end hardware for customers who need to run a Pro application." Apple used to make high end hardware that was more flexible and upgradeable.
Apple has taken ability away. Apple forces it's customers to purchase a fully loaded machine when they possibly do not need it. Apple sales encourages the customer to buy a maxed out machine because then you are future proofing your machine. I feel that's wrong. My needs were different because I needed to upgrade to more RAM than what Apple was configuring. 16GB RAM on the MBP, I was hoping for 32GB RAM if I needed it but no flexibility.

We are Apple's target market because the Mac was not eliminated. Apple has not eliminated any "Pro" machines...as a matter of fact they keep adding more for example, iPad Pro and now the iMac Pro.  I am sure they added these devices because .... You know, I do not know. I guess I am too disjointed.  Do you know why?

I have read all these comments about the Macbook Pro's redesign. Many like it. Many do not. Technically, it's a marvel but it is a limited machine. No way of upgrading the machine after purchase. I heard the MBP's design was based off of the Macbook which is a lower grade computer than the MBP. The Macbook "Pro" is just glorified Macbook with a "Pro" designation. That I feel is the incorrect thought process. The Macbook Pro should be based off of the Macbook Pro not a lower grade machine then tack on the "Pro" label on it. That is a misrepresentation of this computer. Basically a con job by Apple. This allows Apple to raise the prices because it has a "Pro" attached to it's name. "Pro" machines are machines that can be upgraded by it's owner if necessary. Professional computer users have a budget! Apple thinks the "pros" have an unlimited supply of money so it is okay for them to build the MBP as a throwaway appliance. An expensive appliance. Apple is actually taking it's customers for a ride. I am sorry I will not be taking that ride with the Apple zealots. I do not care what the Apple fanatics say or how they try to insult my point of view. I have owned Apple products for at least 20 years or so and I will not be anymore. Apple has changed too much. The pro market is not represented by them. Watch out for this iPad "Pro." It looks like the same formula as the MBP. Disappointing behavior Apple.

pulseimages said:

jumpcutter said:

I am glad this has happened. Apple can not ignore these test results from Consumer Reports. Whenever I have made a claim about an Apple product to AppleCare, they seem to express the claim as a surprise. "We never heard this before" is always their initial response. I am concerned because Apple will try to discredit CR then try and solve the problem. I do not trust Schiller... he is in charge of marketing hence "the cover up."  Sorry, Tim Cook should be addressing this issue.

So true!!! I even called up Apple before I bought my iPhone SE to see what they were doing about the problem Apple was having with the audio quality when the iPhone was paired with Bluetooth car audio systems. Apple reps claimed they never heard anything about it but was sure if there was a problem that Apple would solve it. Talk about blind faith! Thankfully Apple did release a software update that did fix the audio quality but not the fact that Bluetooth connectivity continues to drop when paired with your iPhone in your car. 

I have the same issue with my iPhone 6 pairing with my bluetooth car audio system. It is the nature of the technology. Bluetooth is just flaky... Not even Apple can cure this problem. I believe there are newer generations of bluetooth but how stable it is.??? I do not know.