lorin schultz

auxio said:

lorin schultz said:

auxio said:

lorin schultz said:

auxio said:
[...] Turned out that the RAM I bought didn't have error correction/ECC and the heat sinks on it were much smaller, one of which was the cause of my crashes.  This was the reason that the RAM Apple used was a lot more expensive.  The devil is in the details.

Good point.

Of course the comparisons in this thread ARE for identical RAM. Apple is charging almost twice as much as Crucial et al for exactly the same component.

And so you're either paying for the extra assembly line needed to build the machine, or you're paying for a service technician's time to install it.  You do understand that, when you get someone else to do something for you, it's always going to cost a fair bit more than if you do it yourself right?  People don't seem to have a problem paying extra for home renos/repairs, car repairs, etc.  But they'll scream from the rooftops if it's for their computer.

Yes, I understand the points you've made. Your philosophical view ignores the very obvious practical reality. The issue is not that it costs more, but how MUCH more.

And how much is your time worth?  You expect to get paid well enough to live decently for whatever you do for a living, so why can't others demand the same?  I don't know about the cost of setting up and maintaining that assembly line relative to the number of people who will choose to buy a Mac Mini which isn't the standard configuration.  However, the hourly wage of a service technician (plus training, benefits, the cost of providing the space where they work, tools, etc) certainly isn't negligible.

auxio said:

bloggerblog said:

auxio said:

bloggerblog said:

techprod1gy said:

bloggerblog said:

StrangeDays said:

bloggerblog said:

This is such a dick move from Apple

Previous version: soldered RAM, people complain.
New version: slotted RAM, people complain. 

Look man, if you're not comfortable using screwdrivers, you're not even a real DIY tinkerer, so why even both complaining since this is something only DIY folks do?

I am an avid tinkerer and maker, thank you. But upgrading RAM shouldn't be this risky for the average user. Apple could've made the RAM easier to access, but they decided otherwise. Which is a dick move.

The average user is NOT messing with this stuff...

Dunno why people are backing Apple on this one, it's a lazy implementation of a premium product and a crappy user experience. They managed to block more tinkerers from attempting to upgrade their own RAM. Fewer people will buy it and Apple will end-up discontinuing it.

Look, I'm someone who has done very difficult tinkering with computers in the past.  For example, to get more performance out of an old G4 TiBook, I moved one of the resistors on the motherboard which controlled the CPU speed (the hardware equivalent of BIOS overclocking on PCs).

However, I also am open minded enough to see that I'm in a very small group of people who knows how to do this, cares about it, and/or is willing to spend my time doing it.  And I also understand that it requires extra product design, engineering, and assembly line complexity to include a RAM access panel or similarly easy access.  If this was an Arduino or Raspberry Pi type of device targeted at tinkerers, then I'd definitely question the decision.  But because it's a device targeted at the mass market, I completely understand why it was made.

So you're saying that for a device to be user upgradable it must to fall in the category of an Arduino. Gotcha!

Nope, you missed the point and changed the language to fit your own personal agenda.  To tie my original point in with your agenda, replace the term user upgradeable with tinkerer upgradeable and then it fits.  The word user means the entire group of people who will use this computer.  But the reality is that DIY upgrades are only done by a very small subset of Mac Mini users (what I define as tinkerers).

But I understand that you're so deep in your rabbit hole that it's difficult to see the big picture, so let me try another way of thinking about it.  Try to name any other mass market electronic device or appliance which is designed to have the hardware components within it be user upgradeable (TV, stereo, microwave oven, dishwasher, refrigerator, etc).  Like it or not, mass market computers are appliances for the vast majority of people (users).

auxio said:

lorin schultz said:

auxio said:
[...] Turned out that the RAM I bought didn't have error correction/ECC and the heat sinks on it were much smaller, one of which was the cause of my crashes.  This was the reason that the RAM Apple used was a lot more expensive.  The devil is in the details.

Good point.

Of course the comparisons in this thread ARE for identical RAM. Apple is charging almost twice as much as Crucial et al for exactly the same component.

And so you're either paying for the extra assembly line needed to build the machine, or you're paying for a service technician's time to install it.  You do understand that, when you get someone else to do something for you, it's always going to cost a fair bit more than if you do it yourself right?  People don't seem to have a problem paying extra for home renos/repairs, car repairs, etc.  But they'll scream from the rooftops if it's for their computer.

MacPro said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

rob53 said:

Just checked MacSales/OWC and their RAM for this model costs $169.99 vs the $200 upgrade price Apple charges ($188 if you qualify for their EPP and (possibly) educational discounts). I use MacSales all the time but regardless of the warranty, the price difference doesn't make sense to me considering the lack of ease in replacing it. Using cheaper RAM is not something I do or recommend so for those who just have to be able to change or upgrade RAM, good luck.

disclaimer: OWC charges $1079.99 for a full 64GB of RAM vs Apple's $1316 (EPP price) so it might be worth it if you really want to spend that much money on a Mac mini.

from https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205041 Couldn't quickly find actual warranty but when Apple says something like this, it sounds to me like they aren't allowing it.

Applicable models

• Mac mini (2018)

To upgrade the memory in your Mac mini (2018), go to an Apple Store or Apple Authorized Service Provider.

We asked. We're also very clear in our warning about the procedure.

The fact you have to put back Apple's RAM if you need to go in for a repair should ring alarm bells here!  That's also called deception in my book.  What is the 'guidance' here on what to say if the Apple tech asks if you have replaced the RAM and put the Apple RAM back ...  lie?

I always have upgraded my RAM (and internal storage) on any Mac I own (I keep them all a long time)  where it is feasible even if difficult.  However, never until my extended warranty is out.  In my case, I make sure I purchase a Mac with the correct configuration for my needs for the two years under coverage.  If you figure out what it costs to take out Apple's RAM and replace within those two years you have to add the two sets of RAM together to get the true cost unless you can get a trade in.  I don't see how that can ever make mathematical sense otherwise.  Two or three years later the cost of RAM has usually fallen enough to make that upgrade cost effective but even then you have to do the math.  For my 2013 Mac Pro, it was nearly four years before that RAM was worth the cost and only then thanks to a trade in.  It obviously varies but Apple never use cheap RAM so the calculations have to take that into account.  On several Mac Mini 2012 models I have, it was a no-brainer to upgrade RAM and HDD to SSD at four years old, same with a 2010 MBP i7 15".  

So the bottom line is this is a great article to file away for reference in two to three years.

Rayz2016 said:

lorin schultz said:

macxpress said:

Also, once again, 99.9% of the customers buying this will NEVER actually do this. Or, if you do, how many times are you gonna end up doing it? My guess is once and only once. Most however will just buy what they need and be done with it. 

I would MUCH rather just have Apple install all the RAM I'll ever need. I don't see much benefit to starting with less and adding more later. The only problem is Apple snapping on a rubber glove and telling me to bend over when I order upgrades from them. For those of us who want 32 GB, the hit is substantial. If Apple set the upgrade price anywhere even close to reasonable there would be less need for users to climb inside.

“I want Apple to give me exactly what I want and I want to set the price for getting exactly what I want.”

As I’ve said before, this is exactly what every single complaint about Apple boils down to.